Musume no Tomodachi - Vol. 7 Ch. 54 - Unforgivable
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@Deebees
Her brain not being fully developed is irrelevant unless you're are arguing that she is devoid of though and reasoning. If you're I would gladly like to see it. Her being 16 is not important enough to where it is an argument in of itself. Present to me evidence that she acted in a way befitting of her age, because clearly she didnt, and you would be hard pressed finding it commoj for 16 year olds to act as such.
Get this whole shes only 16 shit out of your argument. Thats not how you properly debate, what you need to do is bring up example and see if what she did is reasonable or not
Thats the issue with this comment section. People that are critiquing him are doing it fron an outsiders pov. When people are "defending" kousuke they arent saying that was hes doing is objectively right. We're saying that given his mental state, what he is doing is reasonable and logical.
From a normal state of mind? Agreed an adult shouldnt romanticize a child. From Kousuke state of mind? Its not only reasonable, but logical.
Oh you mean looking at this objectively? You will find that I stated that Miyas action at first were reasonable, after all shes only 16. What I states was that the lengths at which she did it was unreasonable and not in the scope of what a 16 year old would commonly do.
I mean quite frankly I find it more funny that Miya defenders would often ignore a character and their motivations as a whole, simply to delude themselves in believing that they're right.
Shes a child but lets not act like shes 4 years old. Shes 16, old enough to where she is able to properly think about if what is doing is righr or wrong. Honestly people are making it out to be as if she has the mental wiring if a 4 year old. I wasnt this idiotic at 16 I mean were you?
Spoiled as in, she ignored her grieving father for a year, didnt go to school, and was effectively leeching off her father for that time? Irredeemable as in? Despite being the reason why this is all happening she has the gal to act like the victim. When in no way she took real steps to reconcile with her father.
Asshole? As in when she ran away from home claiming that her father is "forcing" her to move with her grandparents. When in reality he didnt force it upon her, and the discussion they held was if SHE wanted to move or not, giving her complete control of what was to happen.
Hes broken and his actions should be judged within the scope of what a broken man would do. Trying to do otherwise is asinine.
Laughable because it makes sense? Again sure from an outsiders pov its downright stupid, but from Kousuke pov? It makes sense.
Your failure in trying to understand him as a character, and judging his actions within his mental state is whats laughable.
Her brain not being fully developed is irrelevant unless you're are arguing that she is devoid of though and reasoning. If you're I would gladly like to see it. Her being 16 is not important enough to where it is an argument in of itself. Present to me evidence that she acted in a way befitting of her age, because clearly she didnt, and you would be hard pressed finding it commoj for 16 year olds to act as such.
Get this whole shes only 16 shit out of your argument. Thats not how you properly debate, what you need to do is bring up example and see if what she did is reasonable or not
Thats the issue with this comment section. People that are critiquing him are doing it fron an outsiders pov. When people are "defending" kousuke they arent saying that was hes doing is objectively right. We're saying that given his mental state, what he is doing is reasonable and logical.
From a normal state of mind? Agreed an adult shouldnt romanticize a child. From Kousuke state of mind? Its not only reasonable, but logical.
Oh you mean looking at this objectively? You will find that I stated that Miyas action at first were reasonable, after all shes only 16. What I states was that the lengths at which she did it was unreasonable and not in the scope of what a 16 year old would commonly do.
I mean quite frankly I find it more funny that Miya defenders would often ignore a character and their motivations as a whole, simply to delude themselves in believing that they're right.
Shes a child but lets not act like shes 4 years old. Shes 16, old enough to where she is able to properly think about if what is doing is righr or wrong. Honestly people are making it out to be as if she has the mental wiring if a 4 year old. I wasnt this idiotic at 16 I mean were you?
Spoiled as in, she ignored her grieving father for a year, didnt go to school, and was effectively leeching off her father for that time? Irredeemable as in? Despite being the reason why this is all happening she has the gal to act like the victim. When in no way she took real steps to reconcile with her father.
Asshole? As in when she ran away from home claiming that her father is "forcing" her to move with her grandparents. When in reality he didnt force it upon her, and the discussion they held was if SHE wanted to move or not, giving her complete control of what was to happen.
Hes broken and his actions should be judged within the scope of what a broken man would do. Trying to do otherwise is asinine.
Laughable because it makes sense? Again sure from an outsiders pov its downright stupid, but from Kousuke pov? It makes sense.
Your failure in trying to understand him as a character, and judging his actions within his mental state is whats laughable.
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When a child comes onto you, the correct response is not "sit there like an idiot and let it happen" it's to immediately go the other fucking way. He doesn't have to call the police or her parents, just get the fuck away from her. Aside from that, realistically speaking, she doesn't actually love him. This is all an act of rebellion. Of course the story doesn't care because what the author wants to happen is what happens. But to continue pursuing the child, stating even that he loves her (romantically), is the "no no" zone. Knowing something is wrong, and illegal, but still doing it....that's pretty close to criminal.
"MAP" is just another pretty word for pedophile and hebephilia is still criminal in Japan. And no, I won't take "He isn't into kids, just her!" as an excuse. That shit has been used by convicted pedophiles the world over, it doesn't fly with the law and it doesn't fly with me.
"MAP" is just another pretty word for pedophile and hebephilia is still criminal in Japan. And no, I won't take "He isn't into kids, just her!" as an excuse. That shit has been used by convicted pedophiles the world over, it doesn't fly with the law and it doesn't fly with me.
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@starch12313 her being sixteen absolutely is relevant since your entire point relies on “logic” and “to be judged within the scope of what one can do”. No one is saying she has the mental capacity of a toddler, however sixteen is also a far cry from adult reasoning.
Here’s what Miya has accomplished: she got out of her room and back to school, with no help of her father. She managed to socialize and make new friends, even finding the only ally introduced so far that has her best interest at heart. She reached out to Koto to try and reconcile with her. She in this chapter set a reasonable boundary with her father in any hopes of helping their relationship.
She has done many things befitting of a young adult, but there is only so much she can do. She is still at an age where she does need parental support and love. She is still at an age where she will act out and behave like any other teenagers going through trauma. That’s what being a teenager is about.
So logically. Reasonably. She is acting like this because she does not have the emotional maturity of an adult.
You mentioned that what Kousuke is doing is logical and reasonable from his point of view, but you fail to see the story from Miyas point of view. Also abandoning your daughter to be with your underage girlfriend isn’t reasonable or logical. Hitching up with a child as a response to grief and mental anguish is not logical or reasonable. It’s an extreme type of behavior that isn’t appropriate given the situation.
Since you like to analyze these situations from the characters point of view - Miya is a grief stricken depressed teenager. One of the most logical and reasonable symptoms of this is is self isolation, missing school and lashing out emotionally. What part of that does not fit the logical and reasonable quota we’re going with? By the way she’s not “leeching” off her father. Kousuke has a parental and legal obligation to provide her with the basic nessecities. That’s not leeching. If Kousuke was not prepared to provide those things without feeling indebted, he should not have had children.
This is completely anecdotal but since you asked, yes I do believe I was that stupid at sixteen. I’m an adult now so I know better, but I was once a sixteen year old girl who was groomed by an older man. It’s one of the reasons why I’m interested in this manga. Sometimes the older man isn’t a cartoonishly depiction of evil. Sometimes it’s a mentally stunted man who genuinely believes he’s doing the right thing and that’s terrifying.
The running away comment is funny because it has actually been discussed in the manga. They have both been running away. Miya’s solution to the moving suggestion might have been to physically run away from home - but she is absolutely right in that Kousuke has constantly been running away to Koto whenever he feels any type of conflict. By the way only one of them returned, and it wasn’t Kousuke. Another point for acting as a young adult and not a child like you keep suggesting. Actually very mature character growth for her.
Because it makes sense? What makes sense would be calling the police because a vulnerable girl with potential self harm implications just ran away. But no, Kousuke has a self serving savior complex.
By the way before we digress any longer, I do think I understand your point. This is a manga about Kousuke. This is what Kousuke believes in the moment. However he’s still an asshole. He’s still borderline predatory and a bad father. He can be those things and still be the main character.
Miya however is not a bad person. Even now when you are summarizing her worst points, it’s what? She ran away from home? She is rebelling against her father? She is not handling her mother’s death very well? So... because she’s a teenager...?
@Darudius Pedophile does not have a legal or literal definition. If you google “pedophile definition” you will find numerous different definitions, depending on modern usage, clinical usage etc.
in the pure sense that someone is exclusively attracted to prepubescent children diagnosed by a professional then no, you could argue he is not.
In the hes an adult man romancing a sixteen year old? He’s a fucking nonce.
Here’s what Miya has accomplished: she got out of her room and back to school, with no help of her father. She managed to socialize and make new friends, even finding the only ally introduced so far that has her best interest at heart. She reached out to Koto to try and reconcile with her. She in this chapter set a reasonable boundary with her father in any hopes of helping their relationship.
She has done many things befitting of a young adult, but there is only so much she can do. She is still at an age where she does need parental support and love. She is still at an age where she will act out and behave like any other teenagers going through trauma. That’s what being a teenager is about.
So logically. Reasonably. She is acting like this because she does not have the emotional maturity of an adult.
You mentioned that what Kousuke is doing is logical and reasonable from his point of view, but you fail to see the story from Miyas point of view. Also abandoning your daughter to be with your underage girlfriend isn’t reasonable or logical. Hitching up with a child as a response to grief and mental anguish is not logical or reasonable. It’s an extreme type of behavior that isn’t appropriate given the situation.
Since you like to analyze these situations from the characters point of view - Miya is a grief stricken depressed teenager. One of the most logical and reasonable symptoms of this is is self isolation, missing school and lashing out emotionally. What part of that does not fit the logical and reasonable quota we’re going with? By the way she’s not “leeching” off her father. Kousuke has a parental and legal obligation to provide her with the basic nessecities. That’s not leeching. If Kousuke was not prepared to provide those things without feeling indebted, he should not have had children.
This is completely anecdotal but since you asked, yes I do believe I was that stupid at sixteen. I’m an adult now so I know better, but I was once a sixteen year old girl who was groomed by an older man. It’s one of the reasons why I’m interested in this manga. Sometimes the older man isn’t a cartoonishly depiction of evil. Sometimes it’s a mentally stunted man who genuinely believes he’s doing the right thing and that’s terrifying.
The running away comment is funny because it has actually been discussed in the manga. They have both been running away. Miya’s solution to the moving suggestion might have been to physically run away from home - but she is absolutely right in that Kousuke has constantly been running away to Koto whenever he feels any type of conflict. By the way only one of them returned, and it wasn’t Kousuke. Another point for acting as a young adult and not a child like you keep suggesting. Actually very mature character growth for her.
Because it makes sense? What makes sense would be calling the police because a vulnerable girl with potential self harm implications just ran away. But no, Kousuke has a self serving savior complex.
By the way before we digress any longer, I do think I understand your point. This is a manga about Kousuke. This is what Kousuke believes in the moment. However he’s still an asshole. He’s still borderline predatory and a bad father. He can be those things and still be the main character.
Miya however is not a bad person. Even now when you are summarizing her worst points, it’s what? She ran away from home? She is rebelling against her father? She is not handling her mother’s death very well? So... because she’s a teenager...?
@Darudius Pedophile does not have a legal or literal definition. If you google “pedophile definition” you will find numerous different definitions, depending on modern usage, clinical usage etc.
in the pure sense that someone is exclusively attracted to prepubescent children diagnosed by a professional then no, you could argue he is not.
In the hes an adult man romancing a sixteen year old? He’s a fucking nonce.
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@Keetonman
What Is Hebephilia?
Hebephilia is a sexual preference for children in early adolescence, between ages 11 and 14.
Hes not a pedophile nor hebephilia. Honestly people keep bringing up these words without understanding what they mean.
What Is Hebephilia?
Hebephilia is a sexual preference for children in early adolescence, between ages 11 and 14.
Hes not a pedophile nor hebephilia. Honestly people keep bringing up these words without understanding what they mean.
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Explain how he's not?
I'm honestly seeing your defense of this character as a lowkey defense of yourself. So go ahead, explain it to me.
The "Age of Consent is 13" is just a myth btw, and even if she's 16 (I thought they were 14, I honestly can't remember) that's still illegal.
I'll give you an inch and say you're right, he's an Ephebophile
I'm honestly seeing your defense of this character as a lowkey defense of yourself. So go ahead, explain it to me.
The "Age of Consent is 13" is just a myth btw, and even if she's 16 (I thought they were 14, I honestly can't remember) that's still illegal.
I'll give you an inch and say you're right, he's an Ephebophile
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@Keetonman
What it is with you people where someone points out you're wrong and then you screech "you're just a pedo!". No, someone is pointing out your incorrect usage of a word because you're, you know, using it wrong and trying to make a point with it, making the point moot. Accusing people of being something theyre not because you're wrong is quite simply, childish. Stop being an ass.
What it is with you people where someone points out you're wrong and then you screech "you're just a pedo!". No, someone is pointing out your incorrect usage of a word because you're, you know, using it wrong and trying to make a point with it, making the point moot. Accusing people of being something theyre not because you're wrong is quite simply, childish. Stop being an ass.
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I'm going to redact my previous statement about Miya. Even though I don't like the way she is acting and her hypocrasy, I can't deny that none of this would've happened if Kousuke hadn't pursued his relationship with Koto. Some of you need to go back to Chapter 11-13 and read it carefully. Miya and Kousuke's relationship actually started to improve and get better. But then, in Chapter 14, instead of breaking it off with Koto, he decided to go on a date with her. If I had learned my parent was pursuing a relationship with one of my friends, I'd probably react the same way Miya did at her age. Had Miya and Kousuke's relationship kept going the way it was in Chap. 11-13, in time she'd have grown even closer to him.
Doing the bare minimum of providing for your child doesn't mean you can do whatever you want and neglect them emotionally. This is not a valid argument to justify what Kousuke did. In hindsight, Kousuke handled the situation with Koto in every wrong way possible and ruined his relationship with his daughter himself. I don't see how anyone can defend him. Even from an insider's perspective, him being understood by Koto doesn't mean he should have dated her, nor should he have become a father figure to her; it wasn't his job to fix a daughter that wasn't his.
Doing the bare minimum of providing for your child doesn't mean you can do whatever you want and neglect them emotionally. This is not a valid argument to justify what Kousuke did. In hindsight, Kousuke handled the situation with Koto in every wrong way possible and ruined his relationship with his daughter himself. I don't see how anyone can defend him. Even from an insider's perspective, him being understood by Koto doesn't mean he should have dated her, nor should he have become a father figure to her; it wasn't his job to fix a daughter that wasn't his.
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Hi All,
This is definitely a controversial story and this chapter has bubbled up and boiled over the pot like many others.
To all those picking through the minutae of the story and superimposing your own beliefs and opinions, what's important is that we all walk away more informed and in some cases hopefully most, much wiser so as to conduct ourselves in the real world as caring and loving human beings.
Don't make the comments personal attacks regardless of how misplaced others commenters maybe. And if you must make inflammatory remarks do it in your head before you type it on the net.
This is definitely a controversial story and this chapter has bubbled up and boiled over the pot like many others.
To all those picking through the minutae of the story and superimposing your own beliefs and opinions, what's important is that we all walk away more informed and in some cases hopefully most, much wiser so as to conduct ourselves in the real world as caring and loving human beings.
Don't make the comments personal attacks regardless of how misplaced others commenters maybe. And if you must make inflammatory remarks do it in your head before you type it on the net.
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I'm done anyway. I always feel a compulsion to reply when I get a notification so I've blocked them. Otherwise I'll spend all day in here calling them pedos and shit. (or until the mods get mad at me, whatever happens first. I love you, mods)
I guarantee they'll be angrily replying and calling me a coward for "running away" but man I got other shit to do lol
I guarantee they'll be angrily replying and calling me a coward for "running away" but man I got other shit to do lol
@Keetonman It is surely you the problem and your reactions and rigid opinions are the proof, fortunately the author does not care what your opinion!
Illegal like smoking before 18? like driving faster than the limitation? like throwing a piece of paper on the floor? if we had to rely on strict legality everyone would be in jail. The father who kills the rapist and the murderer of his daughter is also illegal and yet is this immoral? do not hide behind such simplistic arguments! people's feelings matter more than these rules decided by society!
Moreover, we don't really know how it will end, at the station we know that there is koto's mother, miya's father is arriving, koto will surely be there, the end can be chaotic. Anything can happen.
The thing is, you could doubt koto's feelings, but his love seems really genuine, beyond the whim of a teenage girl craving a dad or whatever.
The father to her after having lived the police, the mother the gaze of his comrades or of his daughter, cornered and his back to the wall, had the definitive revelation that he was the only one to understand koto (besides the correlations with the moon that each look while thinking of the other is not a trivial detail).
That it is badly accepted I can understand it but I hate people who make morals and who decide for others ... it would be near in the name of modest morality has broken the relationship of two people with a big difference in age and to finish declaring "but it is for your good that we do that" ...It's like homosexuality stories with "it's unnatural" and "unnatural", it gets on my nerves when I hear all of it.
Illegal like smoking before 18? like driving faster than the limitation? like throwing a piece of paper on the floor? if we had to rely on strict legality everyone would be in jail. The father who kills the rapist and the murderer of his daughter is also illegal and yet is this immoral? do not hide behind such simplistic arguments! people's feelings matter more than these rules decided by society!
Moreover, we don't really know how it will end, at the station we know that there is koto's mother, miya's father is arriving, koto will surely be there, the end can be chaotic. Anything can happen.
The thing is, you could doubt koto's feelings, but his love seems really genuine, beyond the whim of a teenage girl craving a dad or whatever.
The father to her after having lived the police, the mother the gaze of his comrades or of his daughter, cornered and his back to the wall, had the definitive revelation that he was the only one to understand koto (besides the correlations with the moon that each look while thinking of the other is not a trivial detail).
That it is badly accepted I can understand it but I hate people who make morals and who decide for others ... it would be near in the name of modest morality has broken the relationship of two people with a big difference in age and to finish declaring "but it is for your good that we do that" ...It's like homosexuality stories with "it's unnatural" and "unnatural", it gets on my nerves when I hear all of it.
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@Deebees
Never said her being 16 was irrelevant. What I stated is that her being 16 doesn't hold enough importance for it to be an argument. Im glad you mentioned "within the scope", now do your part and address whether her action were within scope (it wasnt).
Which is relevant how? You dont need to be an adult to know that what you're doing is wrong, especially that action that Miya took. Shes 16, she knows enough.
Fuckity fuck no lol what bullshit are you spewing. She ultimately was able to get up again because of the heart of heart conversation that she had with her father when they visited her mom. Lets not ignore all the previous attempts that Kousuke has shown of him caring for Miya. Just because she "allowed" herself to finally open up doesn't mean that it completely nullifies Kousuked attempts at trying to help her. Fucking asinine lol.
This is relevant because?
Relevant how?
Now this is relevant. She has the gal to set boundaries when she has shown no real steps in reconciling with her father. You dont give your father an ultimatum when you have nothing to leverage in your favor.
She needs parental love, but she ignores her pleading father for a year lol if you cant see the bullshit in this idk what to tell you.
No she isnt. You can not in good conscience say that it is common for a teenager to ignore their parents to the same degree that Miya did. Its not logical nor reasonable. Especially when the parent is doing their damndest to help you. Again she doesnt need the maturity of an adult to know that what she was doing is wrong. You keep saying this as if when shes an adult a golden door in her brain will open. She doesnt need the golden door to open, because she already knows whats right and wrong.
My failure to understand Miya. Oh you mean when I said that her initial actions were justified and was only unjustified when it reached such degrees of idiocy. Oh but yea I dont understand her. Just because its in her pov doesnt mean its always logical, such as how Kousuke giving Koto anal randomly, doesn't make it logical or reasonable. Its logical and reasonable for Miya to have shut off her father, whats not logical and reasonable is for her to cut him off for that long.
I mean I could think of a plethora of reasons that make it logical. In this case though, underage girlfriends that understands you > ungrateful daughter. Kousuke clearly values Koto more so I dont see how its unreasonable.
Is he hitching up with her though? I doubt it. Again you keep saying that its not logical, but you're judging it from an outsiders pov. Fuck me its a win for Kousuke, he has the opportunity to run away from everything and start a new life with a girl that cares for him. Sure you can say that its not logical because he has a responsibility to raise Miya, but in Kousuke state of mind he couldn't give a fuck.
When did I say that it wasn't logical? Its almost as if ive stated multiple times that her actions were justified. What I stated was that the degree at which she did it wasn't logical. As ive stated above just because its in your pov doesn't mean that it assumes logic and reasoning. Such as how I wouldn't assume it to be reasonable for Kousuke to suddenly give Koto anal, even when factoring his pov.
Now what makes it unreasonable? Its quite simple really, the domino effect is the criteria for whether your actions are reasonable or not. Sure I can see a scenario where Miya is justified in ignoring her father for a year, the problem is that this isnt that scenario. If we were to look at this objectively and using the domino effect as an example.
1) Kousuke spends less time with his family due to work, 2) Because of work he misses the death of his wife, 3) Due to him missing the death of his wife, Miyas disdain of her father strengthens, 4) Miya struck with grief and hatred decides to ignore her father. This makes sense and is reasonable. What doesnt make sense is 5) Kousuke tries his best to reconcile with Miya, 6) Miya continues to ignore her father for a year. Number 6 is unreasonable because its not consistent with previous actions. you dont expect a 2 inch domino to topple a 2 foot domino, but what you can expect is for a 2 inch domino to be the beginning of what toppled the 2 foot domino. We're given nothing inbetween 5-6 that supports her reasoning for ignoring him for that long. If anything we're given more evidence in support that due to Kousuke trying to reconcile with her, that she should have opened up sooner.
Not going to school and not working. We have no indication of her doing chores. Shes effectively leeching off her father. Of course Kousuke has to provide basic necessities. Such as how Miya has a responsibility to go to school so that she can move out when the time calls for it.
Hes evil because?
Its been discussed, but it doesnt make it any less unreasonable. It was in her control. Running away to Koto, its almost as if Miyas is of of the the reasons why.
She gets points for returning after being the reason why they both left lol wtf. You dont get brownie points when you're the reason why a conflict has started. I mean at this point it looks like you're just reaching to find good points about Miya.
I read this and im just like this could have all been avoided if Miya was more reasonable. Its human nature to seek comfort, more so if you're devoid of it. Bad father? You mean the father that was shouldering all this and still trying reconcile with his daughter. Asshole because hes finally trying to get things that benefit him? Trying not to lose the one thing that gives him comfort, but yea hes an asshole for not wanting to take care of a selfish and unreasonable daughter.
Oh god the delusion.
1: She ran away from home with an unjust reason
2: She is rebelling against her father with unjust reasons
3: She assumes that she has the right to only grieve her mothers death
4: Shes a 16 year old that clearly knows right and wrong she aint fucking 4
Never said her being 16 was irrelevant. What I stated is that her being 16 doesn't hold enough importance for it to be an argument. Im glad you mentioned "within the scope", now do your part and address whether her action were within scope (it wasnt).
Which is relevant how? You dont need to be an adult to know that what you're doing is wrong, especially that action that Miya took. Shes 16, she knows enough.
Fuckity fuck no lol what bullshit are you spewing. She ultimately was able to get up again because of the heart of heart conversation that she had with her father when they visited her mom. Lets not ignore all the previous attempts that Kousuke has shown of him caring for Miya. Just because she "allowed" herself to finally open up doesn't mean that it completely nullifies Kousuked attempts at trying to help her. Fucking asinine lol.
This is relevant because?
Relevant how?
Now this is relevant. She has the gal to set boundaries when she has shown no real steps in reconciling with her father. You dont give your father an ultimatum when you have nothing to leverage in your favor.
She needs parental love, but she ignores her pleading father for a year lol if you cant see the bullshit in this idk what to tell you.
No she isnt. You can not in good conscience say that it is common for a teenager to ignore their parents to the same degree that Miya did. Its not logical nor reasonable. Especially when the parent is doing their damndest to help you. Again she doesnt need the maturity of an adult to know that what she was doing is wrong. You keep saying this as if when shes an adult a golden door in her brain will open. She doesnt need the golden door to open, because she already knows whats right and wrong.
My failure to understand Miya. Oh you mean when I said that her initial actions were justified and was only unjustified when it reached such degrees of idiocy. Oh but yea I dont understand her. Just because its in her pov doesnt mean its always logical, such as how Kousuke giving Koto anal randomly, doesn't make it logical or reasonable. Its logical and reasonable for Miya to have shut off her father, whats not logical and reasonable is for her to cut him off for that long.
I mean I could think of a plethora of reasons that make it logical. In this case though, underage girlfriends that understands you > ungrateful daughter. Kousuke clearly values Koto more so I dont see how its unreasonable.
Is he hitching up with her though? I doubt it. Again you keep saying that its not logical, but you're judging it from an outsiders pov. Fuck me its a win for Kousuke, he has the opportunity to run away from everything and start a new life with a girl that cares for him. Sure you can say that its not logical because he has a responsibility to raise Miya, but in Kousuke state of mind he couldn't give a fuck.
When did I say that it wasn't logical? Its almost as if ive stated multiple times that her actions were justified. What I stated was that the degree at which she did it wasn't logical. As ive stated above just because its in your pov doesn't mean that it assumes logic and reasoning. Such as how I wouldn't assume it to be reasonable for Kousuke to suddenly give Koto anal, even when factoring his pov.
Now what makes it unreasonable? Its quite simple really, the domino effect is the criteria for whether your actions are reasonable or not. Sure I can see a scenario where Miya is justified in ignoring her father for a year, the problem is that this isnt that scenario. If we were to look at this objectively and using the domino effect as an example.
1) Kousuke spends less time with his family due to work, 2) Because of work he misses the death of his wife, 3) Due to him missing the death of his wife, Miyas disdain of her father strengthens, 4) Miya struck with grief and hatred decides to ignore her father. This makes sense and is reasonable. What doesnt make sense is 5) Kousuke tries his best to reconcile with Miya, 6) Miya continues to ignore her father for a year. Number 6 is unreasonable because its not consistent with previous actions. you dont expect a 2 inch domino to topple a 2 foot domino, but what you can expect is for a 2 inch domino to be the beginning of what toppled the 2 foot domino. We're given nothing inbetween 5-6 that supports her reasoning for ignoring him for that long. If anything we're given more evidence in support that due to Kousuke trying to reconcile with her, that she should have opened up sooner.
Not going to school and not working. We have no indication of her doing chores. Shes effectively leeching off her father. Of course Kousuke has to provide basic necessities. Such as how Miya has a responsibility to go to school so that she can move out when the time calls for it.
Hes evil because?
Its been discussed, but it doesnt make it any less unreasonable. It was in her control. Running away to Koto, its almost as if Miyas is of of the the reasons why.
She gets points for returning after being the reason why they both left lol wtf. You dont get brownie points when you're the reason why a conflict has started. I mean at this point it looks like you're just reaching to find good points about Miya.
I read this and im just like this could have all been avoided if Miya was more reasonable. Its human nature to seek comfort, more so if you're devoid of it. Bad father? You mean the father that was shouldering all this and still trying reconcile with his daughter. Asshole because hes finally trying to get things that benefit him? Trying not to lose the one thing that gives him comfort, but yea hes an asshole for not wanting to take care of a selfish and unreasonable daughter.
Oh god the delusion.
1: She ran away from home with an unjust reason
2: She is rebelling against her father with unjust reasons
3: She assumes that she has the right to only grieve her mothers death
4: Shes a 16 year old that clearly knows right and wrong she aint fucking 4
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@Keetonman
Thanks for the inch but ill give you a dictionary since you don't know the definitions of the words you're spouting. Hes not a pedophile and the like, because he doesnt have a sexual interest in Koto. He never has. Now he can be sexual with her, but thats due to an attraction from love and not from a pedophile wanting to cream on every child he sees. You need to understand the difference between an attraction and a sexual attraction. Of which the definitions of said words fucking say a "sexual attraction". If not than every mother who kisses their newborn child straight out the womb is suddenly a grade a pedo.
Lowcase defence of me lol. My bad for actually delving deep into a character. I guess its bad for wanting to understand a character just so that I can enjoy the story more lol. But yea no longer can you get sucked into any story lol. What a shit take.
Thanks for the inch but ill give you a dictionary since you don't know the definitions of the words you're spouting. Hes not a pedophile and the like, because he doesnt have a sexual interest in Koto. He never has. Now he can be sexual with her, but thats due to an attraction from love and not from a pedophile wanting to cream on every child he sees. You need to understand the difference between an attraction and a sexual attraction. Of which the definitions of said words fucking say a "sexual attraction". If not than every mother who kisses their newborn child straight out the womb is suddenly a grade a pedo.
Lowcase defence of me lol. My bad for actually delving deep into a character. I guess its bad for wanting to understand a character just so that I can enjoy the story more lol. But yea no longer can you get sucked into any story lol. What a shit take.
@Keetonman are you stupid or what ? You don't know the meaning of the words you use and you haven't read the story to talk about it like that, the alchemy that has been created between them apart from the difference in age, what are you doing on this kind of story? to make free discrimination?
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@ArgoFreese
Its almost as if none of this would have happened if Miya wasnt being unreasonable. Sure you can say that their relationship would have gotten better if Kousuke didnt pursue his relationship with Koto, but that doesnt hold any weight unless you can justify Miyas behavior (which you cant). You cant shift the blame even slightly if the cause is so outrageous.
Doing the bare minimum? Emotional neglect? You mean Kousuke the person that was financially providing for them both, and the only one between them that was actively trying to fix their relationship. But yea emotional neglect lol. He handled it poorly by? I mean by what from his pov or from and outsiders pov, because I can confidently say that from his pov he did pretty damn good. Again with this ruined relationship with his daughter. Shes fully to blame if you wanna say otherwise than justify her actions. Which as I stated before you cant. Now sure you can say that Kousuke should have just cast aside his personal interest for Miya, but you would really have to argue that its more logical and reasonable than him going for Koto.
I would agree if it just suddenly happened, but it didn't. It was built up from Kousuke initial hesitance and to now where he is able to confidently say that he loves her. So from an insiders perspective it makes perfect sense. All the dominos fit.
Its almost as if none of this would have happened if Miya wasnt being unreasonable. Sure you can say that their relationship would have gotten better if Kousuke didnt pursue his relationship with Koto, but that doesnt hold any weight unless you can justify Miyas behavior (which you cant). You cant shift the blame even slightly if the cause is so outrageous.
Doing the bare minimum? Emotional neglect? You mean Kousuke the person that was financially providing for them both, and the only one between them that was actively trying to fix their relationship. But yea emotional neglect lol. He handled it poorly by? I mean by what from his pov or from and outsiders pov, because I can confidently say that from his pov he did pretty damn good. Again with this ruined relationship with his daughter. Shes fully to blame if you wanna say otherwise than justify her actions. Which as I stated before you cant. Now sure you can say that Kousuke should have just cast aside his personal interest for Miya, but you would really have to argue that its more logical and reasonable than him going for Koto.
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I would agree if it just suddenly happened, but it didn't. It was built up from Kousuke initial hesitance and to now where he is able to confidently say that he loves her. So from an insiders perspective it makes perfect sense. All the dominos fit.
