Nihonkoku Shoukan - Vol. 10 Ch. 46 - The Cornered Empire

[Trash_Connoisseur]

This manga is proof that if Japan's technology were more advanced than the Europeans during the era of colonization that they'd do the same thing. They're just being modest about it. In this era, I'd be willing to bet that Japan would even dominate the world if they were the global hegemon like the US.

If Japan was more advanced and had more resources they'd have pillaged, killed, rªped, tortured and set fire to all of Asia. Truly a terrifying thought.

 

[Lnenjoyer]

Ah, yes, another dose of dank manga images. I missed this.

 

[ARealCoolGuy]

"Damn you Lumies!"
I don't know why, but this phrase is funny to me. It just sounds so cartoony.

 

[BayuAH]

Japanese basically doing Kingmakers right now.

Thank you for the update!

 

[aqdv25]

Such manga are not uncommon.
You can see it in this manga,in "GATE - Jieitai Kanochi nite, Kaku Tatakaeri" even in the "Saving 80000 Gold in Another World for my retirement" ,where the MC who has the power to transfer between our world and one of fantasy who techwise is in the medieval era manages to stop the army of an entire nation that also used dragons as back up, merely with the use of an Earth mercenary corps she hired (and transferred temporarily) and modern weaponry. (later to be repeated when the land she's given as a reward is attacked by foreign nation by sea, using ships and weapons that fit 15th-17th century tech).

It's more or less what happened to Japan in WW2.

They tried to expand and attacked European and U.S colonies/lands, but their technology was vastly inferior for them to be able to manage that and we all know it resulted in a very, VERY humiliating (and costly life wise) defeat for Japan. So in the manga, it's Japan who takes the role not only of the winner but the morally superior force who fights against expansionistic forces/countries who only know how to invade weaker nations.

While I do agree that these types of manga serve some type of copium due to the largely humiliating defeat that Japan suffered in WW2. Japan was NOT vastly inferior regarding technology compared to the US or Europe at the time of WW2.

Japan being technologically inferior might have been true during the last stages of WW2 in 1944-1945 but that was because their nation has already been blockaded, bombed many times, starved, and lacking resources to make any type of technological advancements. However during the early years of WW2 Japan was one of the leading technological nations in the world.

For example the Zero Fighter was one of first and most advance monoplane fighters fielded by any air force at the time, the US didn't even have any fighter that can match the performance of the Zero in 41 to early43. Zero Fighter was only matched with the arrival of the US Hellcat Fighter in 1943. Also while the US and Europeans were still unable to choose between the battleship or carrier as the flagship of the navy at the start of WW2, the Japanese have already perfected their carrier fleet operations. Why do you think the US was unable to stop the attack on Pearl Harbor? Because the US didn't even think a coordinated carrier attack over very long distances between Japan and Hawaii was possible, showing that Japan at the start of WW2 was more advanced than the US regarding carrier operations. Lastly, while battleships were slowly being replaced Japan still built the Yamato and Musashi, 2 battleships that were larger and more technologically advanced than any battleship ever built by Europeans or the US at the start of WW2. Only the Fast battleship Iowa Class from the US was able to match it, which was only commissioned in 1943. Showing that Japan also had the edge in battleship technology in early WW2.

TLDR version: Japan lost NOT because being technologically inferior. Infact most Japanese technology were on par or even ahead compared to some of their US/European counterparts. Japan simply lost because of manpower, size, resources.

 

[rudezki]

That's what happens to empires... They fall because of some crazy b**** went and poked the bear.

 

[Khazar123]

While I do agree that these types of manga serve some type of copium due to the largely humiliating defeat that Japan suffered in WW2. Japan was NOT vastly inferior regarding technology compared to the US or Europe at the time of WW2.

Japan being technologically inferior might have been true during the last stages of WW2 in 1944-1945 but that was because their nation has already been blockaded, bombed many times, starved, and lacking resources to make any type of technological advancements. However during the early years of WW2 Japan was one of the leading technological nations in the world.

For example the Zero Fighter was one of first and most advance monoplane fighters fielded by any air force at the time, the US didn't even have any fighter that can match the performance of the Zero in 41 to early43. Zero Fighter was only matched with the arrival of the US Hellcat Fighter in 1943. Also while the US and Europeans were still unable to choose between the battleship or carrier as the flagship of the navy at the start of WW2, the Japanese have already perfected their carrier fleet operations. Why do you think the US was unable to stop the attack on Pearl Harbor? Because the US didn't even think a coordinated carrier attack over very long distances between Japan and Hawaii was possible, showing that Japan at the start of WW2 was more advanced than the US regarding carrier operations. Lastly, while battleships were slowly being replaced Japan still built the Yamato and Musashi, 2 battleships that were larger and more technologically advanced than any battleship ever built by Europeans or the US at the start of WW2. Only the Fast battleship Iowa Class from the US was able to match it, which was only commissioned in 1943. Showing that Japan also had the edge in battleship technology in early WW2.

TLDR version: Japan lost NOT because being technologically inferior. Infact most Japanese technology were on par or even ahead compared to some of their US/European counterparts. Japan simply lost because of manpower, size, resources.

Yes and no.

A lot things went very wrong in the development of weapons. Tanks especially were a sad sight.
The hatred between the 3 branches of the military was even worse than in the USA and resources were getting scarce as you said.

It wasn't the only factor, but it was quite a big factor and as you said especially in the later stages of WW2.
Japan had some great minds, but just like in Germany the leadership just killed any hope of the right direction to take. Which was probably better for the world.

Oddly enough it's exactly what's happening to society now, where shareholders are the main people to be pleased, instead of customers and listening to engineers. Just look at the downfall of Boeing and co.

 

[nuttyknight89]

It’s going to be interesting to see how this uprising goes if them using the name/flag of the one Queen (& assuming Japan will come save them by backing the) backfires in their faces.

 

[aqdv25]

Yes and no.

A lot things went very wrong in the development of weapons. Tanks especially were a sad sight.
The hatred between the 3 branches of the military was even worse than in the USA and resources were getting scarce as you said.

It wasn't the only factor, but it was quite a big factor and as you said especially in the later stages of WW2.
Japan had some great minds, but just like in Germany the leadership just killed any hope of the right direction to take. Which was probably better for the world.

Oddly enough it's exactly what's happening to society now, where shareholders are the main people to be pleased, instead of customers and listening to engineers. Just look at the downfall of Boeing and co.

I agree with the tank part, but Japan leading up to WW2 only had China as its main enemy and at that time China had an antiquated army that didn't even have any tanks. Then you also had the pacific front where tanks aren't that effective in dense jungles in islands. So Japan lacking a bit in the tank department was kind of understandable from their point of view.

However, thats besides the point. My point was just to answer the original comment that said Japan lost because their technology in WW2 is inferior to Europe or the US which is simply NOT true. Yes they might lag in some areas but they are equal and sometimes ahead in some areas too.

Thats it. Im not saying that Japan had all through out tech superiority. Its just they were also considered a great power during WW2 and had relatively equal tech with the US and Europe that fell off at the end of WW2 cause they were already being blockaded. Simple as that.

 

[Someone011]

While I do agree that these types of manga serve some type of copium due to the largely humiliating defeat that Japan suffered in WW2. Japan was NOT vastly inferior regarding technology compared to the US or Europe at the time of WW2.

Japan being technologically inferior might have been true during the last stages of WW2 in 1944-1945 but that was because their nation has already been blockaded, bombed many times, starved, and lacking resources to make any type of technological advancements. However during the early years of WW2 Japan was one of the leading technological nations in the world.

For example the Zero Fighter was one of first and most advance monoplane fighters fielded by any air force at the time, the US didn't even have any fighter that can match the performance of the Zero in 41 to early43. Zero Fighter was only matched with the arrival of the US Hellcat Fighter in 1943. Also while the US and Europeans were still unable to choose between the battleship or carrier as the flagship of the navy at the start of WW2, the Japanese have already perfected their carrier fleet operations. Why do you think the US was unable to stop the attack on Pearl Harbor? Because the US didn't even think a coordinated carrier attack over very long distances between Japan and Hawaii was possible, showing that Japan at the start of WW2 was more advanced than the US regarding carrier operations. Lastly, while battleships were slowly being replaced Japan still built the Yamato and Musashi, 2 battleships that were larger and more technologically advanced than any battleship ever built by Europeans or the US at the start of WW2. Only the Fast battleship Iowa Class from the US was able to match it, which was only commissioned in 1943. Showing that Japan also had the edge in battleship technology in early WW2.

TLDR version: Japan lost NOT because being technologically inferior. Infact most Japanese technology were on par or even ahead compared to some of their US/European counterparts. Japan simply lost because of manpower, size, resources.

I am sorry but you are incorrect in some cases.(wall of text incoming)

For instance Whilst the Zero fighter was more maneuverable and was able to climb at higher rates, it did so by sacrificing their fuselage and self-sealing fuel tanks aka Agility over durability. So it's more of a compromise than "advancement" in tech, furthermore there are cases where their agility and speed was overcome through effective tactics(but I don't count tactics as technology mind you) , for example in the coral sea battle in may 1942 where F4F Wildcats achieved quite the favorable kill ratio over the Zero fighters.

As for the Yamato and Mushashi, come on, they were not "advanced" their advantages only lied in the equation of "bigger equals better" Their Guns where the largest ever mounted on a ship at the time, and their armor was thicker (and obviously they were the largest battle-ships ever built).
But they had huge disadvantages that U.S and European navy vehicles didn't have.
For example the U.S Navy had far superior radar-directed fire control systems allowing them to accurately engage enemies at longer distances and in poor visibility. The Yamato class ships relied heavily on optical rangefinders that were less effective (bordering the ineffective)in bad weather or at night.

Then we got the Yamato anti-aircraft defenses, Again the U.S and British had radar-guided AA systems the Yamato class ships didn't have, and the American 5"/38 caliber guns with proximity-fuzed shells were far more effective at destroying aircraft than the Japanese AA weapons.

Then we got the speed and maneuverability, where the Japanese went the exact opposite direction than they did with the Zero fighter. With the Yamato class battleships they sacrificed speed and maneuverability in favor of armor and larger guns.

All in all they were decent but not really technologically advanced since they fell behind in radar, speed, and fire control making them inferior in practical combat effectiveness compared to U.S. and British battleships.

The only point I will concede was the one about Japanese having perfected carrier fleet operations, but still, that's not a technological breakthrough but rather a tactical/training one. As we can see the "empire" in this manga, have also perfected their own naval and "carrier fleet operations"(such as they are), but they still lost to overwhelming firepower and technology.
Finally when I speak about technology I don't only mean in weapons development, but also their manufacturing capabilities(Japanese were reportedly quite inferior to that of the mass-production methods U.S had)
For example between 1940-1945 the Japanese more or less managed to produce approximately 10939 Zero fighters.
Respectively in the U.S they produced ~15,000 units of P-51 Mustang, ~12,275 units of F6F Hellcat,~12,571 units of F4U Corsair, and ~15,660 units P-47 Thunderbolt. That's `55,506 units, easily five times more than Japan could produce, something that U.S population/workforce numerical superiority(that was a little less than double that of Japan's) can't account for.


So, I can safely say that the Japanese bit off more than then could chew thinking that they have technological and military superiority. Don't you agree?

 

[Wolvenworks]

Why was the title changed? I find no official english release to even warrant a english title change.

Seems it’s only changed in the forums. Still JP title on the reader and on the ch hub. Weird.

 

[nobody2002]

It's like Tyson vs a newborn. The Empire never stood a chance.

 

[aqdv25]

I am sorry but you are incorrect in some cases.(wall of text incoming)

For instance Whilst the Zero fighter was more maneuverable and was able to climb at higher rates, it did so by sacrificing their fuselage and self-sealing fuel tanks aka Agility over durability. So it's more of a compromise than "advancement" in tech, furthermore there are cases where their agility and speed was overcome through effective tactics(but I don't count tactics as technology mind you) , for example in the coral sea battle in may 1942 where F4F Wildcats achieved quite the favorable kill ratio over the Zero fighters.

As for the Yamato and Mushashi, come on, they were not "advanced" their advantages only lied in the equation of "bigger equals better" Their Guns where the largest ever mounted on a ship at the time, and their armor was thicker (and obviously they were the largest battle-ships ever built).
But they had huge disadvantages that U.S and European navy vehicles didn't have.
For example the U.S Navy had far superior radar-directed fire control systems allowing them to accurately engage enemies at longer distances and in poor visibility. The Yamato class ships relied heavily on optical rangefinders that were less effective (bordering the ineffective)in bad weather or at night.

Then we got the Yamato anti-aircraft defenses, Again the U.S and British had radar-guided AA systems the Yamato class ships didn't have, and the American 5"/38 caliber guns with proximity-fuzed shells were far more effective at destroying aircraft than the Japanese AA weapons.

Then we got the speed and maneuverability, where the Japanese went the exact opposite direction than they did with the Zero fighter. With the Yamato class battleships they sacrificed speed and maneuverability in favor of armor and larger guns.

All in all they were decent but not really technologically advanced since they fell behind in radar, speed, and fire control making them inferior in practical combat effectiveness compared to U.S. and British battleships.

The only point I will concede was the one about Japanese having perfected carrier fleet operations, but still, that's not a technological breakthrough but rather a tactical/training one. As we can see the "empire" in this manga, have also perfected their own naval and "carrier fleet operations"(such as they are), but they still lost to overwhelming firepower and technology.
Finally when I speak about technology I don't only mean in weapons development, but also their manufacturing capabilities(Japanese were reportedly quite inferior to that of the mass-production methods U.S had)
For example between 1940-1945 the Japanese more or less managed to produce approximately 10939 Zero fighters.
Respectively in the U.S they produced ~15,000 units of P-51 Mustang, ~12,275 units of F6F Hellcat,~12,571 units of F4U Corsair, and ~15,660 units P-47 Thunderbolt. That's `55,506 units, easily five times more than Japan could produce, something that U.S population/workforce numerical superiority(that was a little less than double that of Japan's) can't account for.

This is slowly getting out of hand and while I can debate with you regarding the specifics of WW2 weaponry. I would just go back to your original comment and look at what you said.

You said

but their technology was vastly inferior

referring to Japan when compared to US/Europe during WW2.

You do know what "vastly inferior" means right? That would be like you are saying Japanese Samurais only armed with swords went up against US Marines in the Battle of Iwo Jima.

Thats the only thing I am arguing against. All I am saying is Japanese tech during WW2 was NOT that far behind and in some cases was on par or even ahead. Then they only fell behind during the last stages of WW2 when they were already blockaded to hell.

So can you at least admit you are wrong for saying that the Japanese was "vastly inferior"?

So, I can safely say that the Japanese bit off more than then could chew thinking that they have technological and military superiority. Don't you agree?

Lastly, you are still wrong with this one. If you would actually read the memoirs of Japanese generals, politicians, high ranking people, and works of historians regarding why Japan went to war against the US/Europe, Japan DID NOT have the view they had technological and military superiority against the US or Europe during WW2.

In fact Japanese generals and high ranking officials knew that if they were to enter a long protracted war against the US/Europe they knew they would lose because Japan simply didn't have enough resources. Thats why Japan drew up their plans where they have to cripple the US Pacific Fleet at Pearl Harbor and then invade as much of US/Europe controlled Asia as possible then bunker down and make it bloody and costly for the US/Europeans to take back their Asian territories, especially with Europe being busy with Germany. So that they can make them sign a peace deal that would let Japan hold on to the territories. (Of course they did underestimate the will of the American people to wage war but thats beside the point)

The main TLDR version is. Japan was at least technologically on par with Europe/US at the time. Japan also knew the strength and weaknesses of Europe/US at the time (Europe being distracted with the European front of WW2 and US being a bit of isolationist before WW2) and were NOT having some delusional grandeur that they were technologically and militarilty superior to both.

 

[itschiko]

This manga is proof that if Japan's technology were more advanced than the Europeans during the era of colonization that they'd do the same thing. They're just being modest about it. In this era, I'd be willing to bet that Japan would even dominate the world if they were the global hegemon like the US.

Japan in those era are evil, they become Chill after the 1945

 

[Liar]

Yes and no.

A lot things went very wrong in the development of weapons. Tanks especially were a sad sight.
The hatred between the 3 branches of the military was even worse than in the USA and resources were getting scarce as you said.

It wasn't the only factor, but it was quite a big factor and as you said especially in the later stages of WW2.
Japan had some great minds, but just like in Germany the leadership just killed any hope of the right direction to take. Which was probably better for the world.

Oddly enough it's exactly what's happening to society now, where shareholders are the main people to be pleased, instead of customers and listening to engineers. Just look at the downfall of Boeing and co.

Just look at the downfall of the USA right now if left unchecked.

 

[screamdoom]

POV: me smurfing on low ranked

 

[Carn109]

Rip railway gun

 

[IronMace1990]

Uncontrolled uprising might be a problem post war

Nah, Japan will stop those rebels. Tho, that would plant a seed of resentment (but not in the former colonies, but on the opportunist)...

 

[definitionofinsanity]

Actually they wouldn't do the same thing, they would try to and end up doing something else. Because Japan did take at least one colony, depending on how you might define them, though it was really late compared to the era of colonization. Anyway the history of Taiwan as a Japanese colony can tell you how they would be to their colonies. Sure it wasn't a great era for the people of Taiwan, but it wasn't the same sort of thing as the Europeans were doing with their colonies. The main difference being that while the Europeans were nearly all in on resource extraction, the Japanese tried to build up Taiwan as an extension of Japan, filled with second class citizens. It was similar in ways but still not the same thing.

Though what they did in ww2, and the lead up to it, to some areas was closer to what the Europeans did during the era of colonization.

...Wow.

Just... wow. Holy fucking shit... wow.

Um, I'm sorry, but JUST from Unit 731 existing... You don't get to compare what the Imperial Japanese did compared to European colonization.

Yes, European colonization was oppressive. But... this isn't even the same ballpark. Or the same fucking sport as a matter of fact. That isn't even up for discussion.

 

[definitionofinsanity]

While I do agree that these types of manga serve some type of copium due to the largely humiliating defeat that Japan suffered in WW2. Japan was NOT vastly inferior regarding technology compared to the US or Europe at the time of WW2.

Japan being technologically inferior might have been true during the last stages of WW2 in 1944-1945 but that was because their nation has already been blockaded, bombed many times, starved, and lacking resources to make any type of technological advancements. However during the early years of WW2 Japan was one of the leading technological nations in the world.

For example the Zero Fighter was one of first and most advance monoplane fighters fielded by any air force at the time, the US didn't even have any fighter that can match the performance of the Zero in 41 to early43. Zero Fighter was only matched with the arrival of the US Hellcat Fighter in 1943. Also while the US and Europeans were still unable to choose between the battleship or carrier as the flagship of the navy at the start of WW2, the Japanese have already perfected their carrier fleet operations. Why do you think the US was unable to stop the attack on Pearl Harbor? Because the US didn't even think a coordinated carrier attack over very long distances between Japan and Hawaii was possible, showing that Japan at the start of WW2 was more advanced than the US regarding carrier operations. Lastly, while battleships were slowly being replaced Japan still built the Yamato and Musashi, 2 battleships that were larger and more technologically advanced than any battleship ever built by Europeans or the US at the start of WW2. Only the Fast battleship Iowa Class from the US was able to match it, which was only commissioned in 1943. Showing that Japan also had the edge in battleship technology in early WW2.

TLDR version: Japan lost NOT because being technologically inferior. Infact most Japanese technology were on par or even ahead compared to some of their US/European counterparts. Japan simply lost because of manpower, size, resources.

I'm going to have to disagree with a bit and agree with Khazar

Yes and no.

somewhat here.

The Japanese were technologically behind enough where it did effect the war effort negatively in their favor. The A6M, for instance, was not really all that technologically advanced. In fact, the Japanese even at a time started to remove radios, a technology deemed essential to American aircraft, to save weight. Also, another huge issue with the Zero was a lack of self-sealing fuel tank technology which, again, was eventually something that was considered a standard feature on American aircraft. There are so many reports of Zeros taking damage from gunfire that would've been totally survivable where the Zero would get minimal damage, catch fire and just burn until it killed the pilot of caused the aircraft to crash. Another issue was that the A6M wasn't really that much better than F4F Wildcats and whatnot... it was that Japanese pilots were. American training and doctrine was, quite frankly, absolute dogshit at the beginning of the war and it wasn't until Japan started losing talented pilots (because they never took their best guys out of the field and brought them back to train new pilots) and America started getting combat-experienced pilots that were aces (that America ROUTINELY took out of combat to bring them home to teach new pilots) that the disparity started evening out. Newer and better aircraft for the Americans helped, but it wasn't a technological handicap. It was a training/doctrine/experience one.

And while the Japanese DID have self-sealing fuel tanks in later designs and models, they were no where near as prevalent or as effective as American self-sealing fuel tanks.

Khazar has already pointed out the sad state of affairs that was the Japanese tank designs that, admittedly, they had less use of, but the fact that their most produced and common tank, the Type 97 Chi-Ha, was already a rather outdated design when it first saw service in 1938 (with things like the Panzer III around) and didn't really change much.

Even things like the Yamato which were the pride and symbol of Japan were lacking in technological capability compared to the Americans/west. Despite having thicker frontal turret armor, thicker belt armor and thicker deck armor - the actual protective rating of Yamato was probably on par, or worse in some cases, than the Iowa-class due to the Japanese not having the greatest steel industry at the time to make steel that thick. In fact, it was one of the issues the Japanese had with making Yamato and they had to invent ways around that. To make matters worse, we had some naval visionaries like Willis Augustus Lee that slammed through the use of radar because he knew how useful it was and continuously tried getting the most capable radar on U.S. ships. Meanwhile the the Japanese... had really high quality level binoculars that could be used in low-light. Their use of radar was much, much more limited. Meanwhile we put it on destroyers that we were copypasting at a rate that looks like cheats were on. And we tied in fire control radar for anti-air which... I think the Japanese mostly relied on a guy with a stick that pointed at the enemy from the 25mm gun batteries (I'm not joking, either, that was a thing).

And then you take into account things like the "VT" proximity fuse which from all accounts the Japanese didn't even know existed or COULD EVEN exist until after the war. They just thought American 5" gun crews on American Navy ships were just getting really accurate. It's a technology that is legitimately credited with shortening the war by probably a few months and stopping thousands upon thousands of casualties.

While, yes, I will agree with you even if Japan was more advanced than the Americans - they'd still have lost because... they just didn't have the manpower, resources or supplies... The problem was that there was a technological gap which was a detriment to the Japanese war effort as well. If America had been on the same technological level as Japan was, things like Midway/Coral Sea/Philippine Sea wouldn't have gone as well as they did. And the war would've dragged on for about another year or so because we wouldn't have had enough carriers to effectively fight the war. Don't forget: America was down to only two, effective, actual fleet-carriers that were in the pacific at one point in late 1942. Even after Midway, things were looking bleak for a minute. If we didn't have a technological gap, it would've gone very, very differently.