“Okaeri, Papa” - Ch. 19 - Discord

[Zan17]

Oyakodon in H: Happy life, Both agreed, Nonstop baby-making
Oyakodon in reality:

 

[DeathkaiserG]

I wonder what's the objective here

• Inheritance Scam?
• Ritualistic Murder?
• Plain Horny Yandere End?

 

[sirflappy]

First off, I'm not dumb enough to click on links provided by random strangers on the internet.
Secondly, I have enough first hand real life experience to know the reality of the situation. And I've dealt with enough tears from my peers to know that leaving it late carries real risks of remaining childless.

Dating post-thirty is not simple. Especially when you have to factor in the time taken to build a relationship to the point you'd consider having his baby. Early-thirties quickly turns into mid-thirties before having a baby is even a real consideration for the relationship, despite the time constraints.

Either way, it's obvious our world views are too different, so lets just agree to disagree. I know what I've experiences and seen, so I'm not going to debate this further.

It makes it harder to find somebody closer to your age when you reach that age too. Most are married or have children already. Trying to find somebody while working full time mid 30s is pretty rough. Time is so limited.

 

[Erbakhan]

Man i feel bad for him

 

[Weoooo]

What matters here is the MC's POV, not ours. We're OBSERVING the events and emotions, not the ones involved.

If we take the MC's word here (which his sister didn't try to dispute but just said that This Time It's Different), his sister has criticized EVERY SINGLE FEMALE that he brought over, and mostly (at least has HE perceives it) for dumb shit like "her makeup is smudged" or some other trash reason. Why should he consider ANY her criticism of a woman he likes (let alone married) as anything OTHER than shitting on his choice in women? That's what it appears to have ALWAYS been up to this point. (And did her actions result in his relationships breaking up? We don't know but if so then there would be even more resentment.)

IT DOESN'T MATTER WHAT HER INTERNAL MOTIVE IS. In his eyes she's only a nag when it comes to his women and NOTHING that she has done up to this point would lead him to think otherwise. At some point when all a person does is nag you just stop listening to them.

I'm confused as to what you think my point is.

Like, the whole thing here is that they've driven a wedge between him and his family. Wedges go into cracks. Things that may not really matter all that much, but are places of weakness. He and his sister have had a good relationship. They've been buddies, they've relied on each other, half a chapter was dedicated to her telling us how much she loves him.
But, in that chapter, we see that she says he's always had bad luck with women, and he says that she's always criticizing his girlfriends.

That's a crack. They don't see things the same way. Who's right? We donno, but based on what our boy's gotten himself into, I wouldn't be surprised if she's more right than not. But he doesn't see it that way. This is something to work with.
My point has always been that his family, rather than being an overbearing and disapproving entity, has shown concern for him. He has a good relationship with them, they're nice folks who care about their son and brother.
So I'm genuinely baffled as to why you're explaining his thoughts to me. I know them. I know why he's thinking them. My point was that he is spiraling and lashing out because he's been manipulated; and he's obviously been manipulated. This whole damn thing has been a setup, he didn't actually even make the choice to meet his new wife, she picked him from a LIST and manufactured an event to get his attention.

 

[danbellucci]

First off, I'm not dumb enough to click on links provided by random strangers on the internet.
Secondly, I have enough first hand real life experience to know the reality of the situation. And I've dealt with enough tears from my peers to know that leaving it late carries real risks of remaining childless.

Dating post-thirty is not simple. Especially when you have to factor in the time taken to build a relationship to the point you'd consider having his baby. Early-thirties quickly turns into mid-thirties before having a baby is even a real consideration for the relationship, despite the time constraints.

Either way, it's obvious our world views are too different, so lets just agree to disagree. I know what I've experiences and seen, so I'm not going to debate this further.

While it would not be surprising if you were so ignorant and unfamiliar with any sort of research that you did not recognise the website researchgate, we both know that you are simply looking for an excuse not to face any evidence which contradicts your incorrect worldview.
Don't worry, I'll take away any of your flimsy excuses and for avoiding acknowledging evidence that shows that you're wrong.
edit : the forum isn't displaying the images unforunately, but I've given the paper names and figure numbers in the paper so yoou can easily verify them yourself.

Figure 2 , "Fecundity per cycle according to female age"
Ovarian Aging: Mechanisms and Clinical Consequences , Endocrine Reviews, August 2009, 30(5):465– 493

Figure 2.1 , Delaying Parenthood: Choice or Circumstance , Natasha Kalebic

your original claim was "We are only reliably fertile up to thirty." i.e. you are making a claim about the ability of women to get pregnant at age 30 and beyond.
I told you that most women at age 30 can manage to get pregnant two more times. This is true. at age 30 their monthly chance of getting pregnant is indistinguishable from that of a 20 year old, meaning when attempting to conceive naturally the percentage of women obtaining a live birth within a year at age 30 is 75% (Baird et al. (2005) Fertility and ageing. Human Reproductive Update, 3, 261-276) . The chance of getting pregnant in a single monthly cycle at age 30 is therefore y in the equation 0.75 = 1 - (1-y)^12 which gives y = 0.11
Using the top figure the monthly cycle probability of getting pregnant with a healthy child at age 33 is 0.66 * 0.11 = 0.0726
And the chance of having a pregnancy with a healthy child within a year at age 33 is 1 - (1-0.0726)^12 = 0.595
So the probability of having a child within a year at age 30 followed by a child within a year at age 33 is 0.75*0.595 = 0.446
However even if a woman fails to get pregnant at age 33, she can still try at age 34 and that will easily contribute the remaining 5% to get over 50% and qualify as most women. And that's only one potential path to having 2 kids, there are other paths which contribute more probability still.

you spend the rest of your post changing the subject away from fecundity, conception and pregnancy and towards dating which is totally shifting the goalposts.
I never said that it's easy to find a husband at age 30, I said most woman would be able to have 2 kids at age 30 , i.e. if you have a man that you're trying to have 2 kids on your 30th birthday with you'll more likely than not be able to do it.
I agree with you that if you're still dating at age 30 then you need to panic and find someone and start trying to have a family as soon as possible because you are in peril of being a childless genetic dead end and it's your last chance to avoid that miserable fate.

 

[danbellucci]

Uh whats the problem with being a single mom? That's a weird complaint. Also, of course he's not gonna listen to his family when they've been kinda shitting on him his whole life.

Single moms are more likely to be less-good partners since they've (usually) gone through a divorce which makes them more likely to have another divorce in the future , you can screen against that to some extent by getting to know their personality and circumstances , but you probably can't dissipate all that risk since they'll likely be trying to make themselves seem as eligible and possible and place all the blame on their previous partner even if a large amount of the blame is theirs.
This can be avoided if you're dealing with a widow though.
However even if you're dealing with a widow there's still the downside that she has another man's child that she needs to look after which means she won't spend as much time and care and attention looking after any kids you have with her compared with if you marry a woman who isn't a single mom.
Obviously there could be single moms who are so great in other ways that they are desirable wives despite these risks, i.e. they are able to compensate for these downsides and risks due ot their other attributes.

But objectively speaking, other things being equal, a single mom has more downsides and carries more risks as a potential wife than a non-single mom.

It's the same as how there's a problem with marrying a woman who is blind or has Crohn's disease or a bad back .
There might be some women out there who are so amazing in other ways that despite these problems they would make great catches as wives.
But other things being equal, these are still problems and less desirable.
I'm sure you'll still dismiss this as "incel" , but I guess that would make the vast majority of humanity incels since throughout human history, being a single mom has been seen as a less desirable trait as a potential wife than not being a divorcee or widow with kids.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Single moms are more likely to be less-good partners since they've (usually) gone through a divorce which makes them more likely to have another divorce in the future , you can screen against that to some extent by getting to know their personality and circumstances , but you probably can't dissipate all that risk since they'll likely be trying to make themselves seem as eligible and possible and place all the blame on their previous partner even if a large amount of the blame is theirs.
This can be avoided if you're dealing with a widow though.
However even if you're dealing with a widow there's still the downside that she has another man's child that she needs to look after which means she won't spend as much time and care and attention looking after any kids you have with her compared with if you marry a woman who isn't a single mom.
Obviously there could be single moms who are so great in other ways that they are desirable wives despite these risks, i.e. they are able to compensate for these downsides and risks due ot their other attributes.

But objectively speaking, other things being equal, a single mom has more downsides and carries more risks as a potential wife than a non-single mom.

It's the same as how there's a problem with marrying a woman who is blind or has Crohn's disease or a bad back .
There might be some women out there who are so amazing in other ways that despite these problems they would make great catches as wives.
But other things being equal, these are still problems and less desirable.
I'm sure you'll still dismiss this as "incel" , but I guess that would make the vast majority of humanity incels since throughout human history, being a single mom has been seen as a less desirable trait as a potential wife than not being a divorcee or widow with kids.

Putting it another way: Even under the delusional assumption that single mothers are just as likely to be fantastic women as others, they are, pound for pound, still inferior to non-mothers, since a good single mother still has the kid, while the equally-likely good non-mother doesn't. You'd need an exceptionally good single mother, which, again, at that point, since they're just as likely to exist as non-mothers of equal caliber, you're still better off going for the non-mothers. They're more plentiful, to boot, since most women at child-bearing age don't have kids.

You'd need some extra incentive to cancel out this whole "Other man's kid" thing, and back in the day it was (IIRC) the man inheriting all the woman's property in marriage. At that point, you might say "Ok, it's not my kid, and I have to pay for it, but I'm getting all this stuff in return, so worst-case scenario, I break even financially". But this only works in a world where the man inherits her property, and the woman herself doesn't keep raising her standards higher and higher, like they do today.

Honestly, this is a lot of explaining on our part for some guy who didn't really ask a question.

 

[HoesLuvHerro]

"It was my decision, my choice" Are you SURE about that??

 

[dragonlordadn]

Dude did literally everything wrong, and he knows it. Maybe pay attention.

Except a bit of insensitivity emotionally he's just an average guy. He may have made a few wrong decisions but that's just normal. If yoy find every decision wrong that's you judging him on your standards.

He marries a single mother: Dumb

I can't even begin to say how close-minded and prejudiced that is ok? Happy families can happen from a single guy marrying a single mom ok? Surprise surprise!

He lets her creepy daughter cling to him: Dumb

He's bad at judging distance since he never had experience. But any time he felt it's too much he pushed her away outright.

He ignores his family's warnings: Dumb

Sure you mean how they criticized his every decision without any concrete reasons? No surprise there chief

He hears his sister doesn't trust the creepy daughter, then gives said sister's baby to daughter: Dumb

He does trust his daughter and warning is same as every instance before?

He immediately lets creepy daughter and baby out of his sight: Dumb

Like I said if you trust someone and still can't leave them out of sight for a bit then it's paranoia.

He tells sister to "Calm down" after he lets creepy daughter kidnap baby: Dumb

Ok the only part where he's insensitive but his reasoning being they found her safe so it's alright, now try to calm down.

This story only works because MC is a high-functioning retard.

Nah the story works because it's interesting and mc is normal person

Single mom. Creepy daughter. That's two ways right there.

Again highly prejudiced against single moms, and 'creepy' is something only a reader can feel. To someone inside the story she's just a bit too clingy.

Single mom. Creepy Daughter. Sister says she doesn't trust them. He doesn't either. Gives baby to creepy daughter despite literally everyone's problems with it.

" He doesn't either " Lol where are you Cooking this from?and everyone's problem? Sister only gave a warning about the daughter just like normal and she's the only one who had a problem with it.

This entire story is about how the man is being manipulated by what appears to be a black widow and her psycho daughter. The guy's family sees this problem, then warns him about it. Psycho Oyakodon is now attempting to isolate him from his family.

Just say that's the kinda story you want to read and are just interpreting it that way. Except the last line (which wouldn't have happened if they just accepted his family) everything is your own assumption. His family has as shown in the chap only pushed their decisions on him never once respecting his opinions. Not the ppl anyone in same position will take advice from.

If you don't see the problems here, you are a prime target for abuse.

I see the problem here, the complete problem. Are the wife and daughter weird and a problem? Yes, but are they the only problem? Hell no. His mother and sister are equally problematic just not in the same way as his family. If you don't see this then you're already suspectible to manipulation and abuse by your family elders or those with authority above you(eg. here you went with the author's depictions without even questioning it)

At this point it feels like you're in closed echo chamber with people around you who are similarly judgemental of others who don't fit your bill. I suggest meeting more people in diverse conditions or even joining large social communities with a variety of people

If you're reading this for schadenfreude of a tragedy then you're likely in for disappointment so I suggest stopping now since title and summary abundantly make it clear his daughter will get pregnant with his child and they do stay as a family.

 

[TakeyaMomiji]

Can't wait for next chapter

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Except a bit of insensitivity emotionally he's just an average guy. He may have made a few wrong decisions but that's just normal. If yoy find every decision wrong that's you judging him on your standards.

Yes. These are the usual standards. He's failing to live up to them. The breakdown of moral standards is how we got to our current world. If he lived up to them, his life would be better. A lot of people's lives would be better.

I can't even begin to say how close-minded and prejudiced that is ok? Happy families can happen from a single guy marrying a single mom ok? Surprise surprise!

And I'm sure you can be an alcoholic and not beat your wife. Happens every day. Guess what most domestic violence situations have in common: Alcohol.

He's bad at judging distance since he never had experience. But any time he felt it's too much he pushed her away outright.

Right. So, dumb.

Sure you mean how they criticized his every decision without any concrete reasons? No surprise there chief

"Single mother" is the reason. Common wisdom that's passed from generation to generation specifically to avoid having to sit down people every single time and give e them a full course on Human morality. Imagine having to sit down and explain the basic moral, and evolutionary, underpinnings of every single rule, like "Don't murder people", "Don't steal", "Don't Lie", "Don't marry single mothers". It's time consuming, and, as we've seen, a shocking number of humans aren't actually capable of grasping the concepts logically in the first place. But they're more than capable of tearing it all down.

If you think they needed to sit him down and explain, in scientific detail, every last problem with marrying someone who already has a child, there's no talking to you.

He does trust his daughter and warning is same as every instance before?

I know it's been a while, and you're not actually interested in reading anything I post, but he outright knew there was a problem giving the baby to the girl. He knows she's sketchy, and this entire series has been him either shaking it off, or doubling down.

Like I said if you trust someone and still can't leave them out of sight for a bit then it's paranoia.

He doesn't, and the baby was his responsibility. To boot, he was specifically told by his sister she doesn't trust them.

Nah the story works because it's interesting and mc is normal person

High functioning retard.

Again highly prejudiced against single moms, and 'creepy' is something only a reader can feel. To someone inside the story she's just a bit too clingy.

Brother, the entire arc has been the sister and mother realizing, pretty much immediately, that there's something deeply wrong with the two. Are you... reading this story? What do you think the conflict has been so far? Do all the faces, talks, and excuses to take the baby away from the girl just go over your head?

Sister only gave a warning about the daughter just like normal and she's the only one who had a problem with it.

Yeah. So add that to the problm at hand:

Sister: "I don't trust the bitch"
Bitch: "Can I have your sister's baby?"
MC: "But........ Nah, it'll be fine"
Moments later: It was not fine. Just as sister feared.

His family has as shown in the chap only pushed their decisions on him never once respecting his opinions.

So far, his opinions have put him in this situation. We don't have their entire lives to work off of, but from what we've seen, he really is just a high functioning retard, throwing a fit that nobody wants to let him be retarded.

At this point it feels like you're in closed echo chamber with people around you who are similarly judgemental of others who don't fit your bill.

It's a weird assumption to make, considering you know literally nothing about me. Stick to making personal observations.

 

[EchoGirl]

I wonder what's the objective here

• Inheritance Scam?
• Ritualistic Murder?
• Plain Horny Yandere End?

Wonder what the legality/rights you'd have as a stepchild who gets knocked up by your mom's husband (tho cousin marriage is acceptable so who knows, but i imagine the mom/sister would prolly take it to court if they were suspicious before, unless they aren't notified of mc's death but i imagine they'd want him to be alive to be a "Papa" to their kid)

 

[SunSun]

Just let yourself cry.
Reinforcing those old values just bring misery.
View attachment 3188

Fuck that. Stoicism is a virtue. Crying over what cannot be changed should be time spent on what can be done.

 

[SunSun]

Fairly sure that not the sort of thing that comes up in conversation until after you are properly courting and are already emotionally invested. And, again, that's the reality of dating post-thirty. Menopause hits as early as the early thirties. We are only reliably fertile up to thirty. Not post thirty.

There is a reason why men have the peak of their sex drives at 21. The females your age are now fully grown and at the height of fertility. Nature wants you making babies at 20, not 30.

I'll add that medical literature shows that infant complications drastically increase once a woman reaches 30.

Asthma, allergies, birth and developmental defects all increase.

That's not accounting for the strain on a woman's body for going into labor.

"Just C section" yes just have a highly invasive surgery on someone who's no longer in the prime of their life, with reduced healing compared to their younger self.

 

[SunSun]

Look, MCs family not validating his work and sacrifices for the family sucks, sure.

But why should he expect them to validate some objectively bad choices with Touko and her mom, if his family never did so in the first place?

Also some of you really taking not getting validation as abuse from your family. It's not, blindly rubber stamping everything you do is abuse. That's how you get delulu individuals who always want their way.

 

[DaBlackMamba]

Single moms are more likely to be less-good partners since they've (usually) gone through a divorce which makes them more likely to have another divorce in the future , you can screen against that to some extent by getting to know their personality and circumstances , but you probably can't dissipate all that risk since they'll likely be trying to make themselves seem as eligible and possible and place all the blame on their previous partner even if a large amount of the blame is theirs.
This can be avoided if you're dealing with a widow though.
However even if you're dealing with a widow there's still the downside that she has another man's child that she needs to look after which means she won't spend as much time and care and attention looking after any kids you have with her compared with if you marry a woman who isn't a single mom.
Obviously there could be single moms who are so great in other ways that they are desirable wives despite these risks, i.e. they are able to compensate for these downsides and risks due ot their other attributes.

But objectively speaking, other things being equal, a single mom has more downsides and carries more risks as a potential wife than a non-single mom.

It's the same as how there's a problem with marrying a woman who is blind or has Crohn's disease or a bad back .
There might be some women out there who are so amazing in other ways that despite these problems they would make great catches as wives.
But other things being equal, these are still problems and less desirable.
I'm sure you'll still dismiss this as "incel" , but I guess that would make the vast majority of humanity incels since throughout human history, being a single mom has been seen as a less desirable trait as a potential wife than not being a divorcee or widow with kids.

I won't dismiss this as simple incel shit, but I will say it's very close minded and prejudiced. Every situation is different and I doubt you know enough people or have enough experience to make such blanket statements like that

 

[DaBlackMamba]

Yes. These are the usual standards. He's failing to live up to them. The breakdown of moral standards is how we got to our current world. If he lived up to them, his life would be better. A lot of people's lives would be better.

And I'm sure you can be an alcoholic and not beat your wife. Happens every day. Guess what most domestic violence situations have in common: Alcohol.

Right. So, dumb.

"Single mother" is the reason. Common wisdom that's passed from generation to generation specifically to avoid having to sit down people every single time and give e them a full course on Human morality. Imagine having to sit down and explain the basic moral, and evolutionary, underpinnings of every single rule, like "Don't murder people", "Don't steal", "Don't Lie", "Don't marry single mothers". It's time consuming, and, as we've seen, a shocking number of humans aren't actually capable of grasping the concepts logically in the first place. But they're more than capable of tearing it all down.

If you think they needed to sit him down and explain, in scientific detail, every last problem with marrying someone who already has a child, there's no talking to you.

I know it's been a while, and you're not actually interested in reading anything I post, but he outright knew there was a problem giving the baby to the girl. He knows she's sketchy, and this entire series has been him either shaking it off, or doubling down.

He doesn't, and the baby was his responsibility. To boot, he was specifically told by his sister she doesn't trust them.


High functioning retard.


Brother, the entire arc has been the sister and mother realizing, pretty much immediately, that there's something deeply wrong with the two. Are you... reading this story? What do you think the conflict has been so far? Do all the faces, talks, and excuses to take the baby away from the girl just go over your head?


Yeah. So add that to the problm at hand:

Sister: "I don't trust the bitch"
Bitch: "Can I have your sister's baby?"
MC: "But........ Nah, it'll be fine"
Moments later: It was not fine. Just as sister feared.


So far, his opinions have put him in this situation. We don't have their entire lives to work off of, but from what we've seen, he really is just a high functioning retard, throwing a fit that nobody wants to let him be retarded.


It's a weird assumption to make, considering you know literally nothing about me. Stick to making personal observationtions

This entire rant just oozes "manosphere" listener. You a fresh and fit fan?

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

I won't dismiss this as simple incel shit, but I will say it's very close minded and prejudiced.

His point was that you'd dismiss it, not that you'd specifically dismiss it as "Incel shit" Case in point:

Every situation is different and I doubt you know enough people or have enough experience to make such blanket statements like that

"People are snowflakes, your ancestors don't know shit about life, your instincts are bad, and I bet you don't actually talk to people."

🤷‍♂️

This entire rant just oozes "manosphere" listener. You a fresh and fit fan?

I wasn't talking to you. I was adding to what the other guy said. I've been clear on the fact that you're not actually asking questions.

Now either respond to something we said, or just admit you don't care.

 

[Weoooo]

Why does this manga attract the most insane people this place has to offer? I mean, they're posters so it's not a surprise that they're posting, but jesus