Onii-chan wa Oshimai! - Vol. 9 Ch. 81.8 - Non-Mahiro Special: Aoi-chan Edition

[darekpawlo]

If it's all you care, why bring it up?

Because I find it funny that someone this old is getting so invested into telling people on the internet that they shouldn't be using a word

 

[Amiko]

Wanna put it on record.

Fair, but all either of you will do is file the record away into the recesses of your minds and move on with your lives. I think you were also so focused on finding someone to debate that you tried to provoke with someone on your side

 

[kenwaynguyen]

Because I find it funny that someone this old is getting so invested into telling people on the internet that they shouldn't be using a word

Fair.

 

[kenwaynguyen]

Fair, but all either of you will do is file the record away into the recesses of your minds and move on with your lives. I think you were also so focused on finding someone to debate that you tried to provoke with someone on your side

Nah, it's fun.

 

[luigiymario2]

"offensive words" cry me a river.

 

[MidnighTea]

I'm kind of wondering if some people are wondering if there's a slippery slope here. Like "if we stop using ONE word because it's offensive, where does it stop?". Like I kinda get that, and how annoying it can be to have to keep a mental filing system of which words are OK or not OK anymore. Look I'm not gonna be the asshole who suddenly says you're somehow a bad person for not keeping up on that. I don't know you all are doing in other countries but here in the USA we got some serious stuff on our plates even without having to keep up with that.

But thing is, I'm partly with George Carlin if any of ya'll are old enough to remember who he is. I think language is important and how we use and frame it. Sometimes words should be softened to accommodate people. Sometimes words are softened so much that their important meanings can be lost. There's nuance there.

I do think it's worth abandoning "trap". Not just for the (very good if I may say so) reasons I said on the first page but because if you think about it, making a meme of Admiral Ackbar kind of disrespects/undermines a climax to the original Star Wars trilogy which isn't going to be universally known to future generations. See the very early xckd on Monty Python. Like maybe don't completely piss away the cultural value of classic sci-fi nerd mythology??

https://xkcd.com/16

 

[Me]

Legit criticism: otoko-no-ko is not english, and its meaning is not clear from context. There are several english terms which are more-or-less usable as a replacement, so it isn't as if you are stuck choosing between "trap" or "untranslated gibberish". I would probably use "femboy"(I do not believe that's considered offensive, though it looks like a slur to my eyes), though the old standby of "crossdresser" is still out there.


I miss the days when "a bundle of sticks" was the catch-all slur and we weren't overdosing on microaggressions.

 

[MidnighTea]

tbh I really haven't met anyone who is outright offended by femboy, to the point they needed to say something. I know it sounds super cringe like an instagram/meme thing but maybe that's in the spirit of things. Maybe someday we'll need a better word. The fun thing about progress is that we all progress together.

 

[Themanwiththehat]

Scrolling through my latest chapter updates and saw how much more comments this specific chapter had than the last one, just wow 😭

 

[Amiko]

Legit criticism: otoko-no-ko is not english, and its meaning is not clear from context.

I mean... It's on the cover of a manga that clearly shows the contents of the manga, I'd argue it's meaning IS pretty clear from context, not to mention there are plenty of non-english words we leave because their meaning is understood at this point - bassically every -dere type character trope, for example.

edit: Hell, there's plenty of anime genre we leave un-translated too because the meaning has become understood. We don't call Dragon Ball and One Piece "Young" manga, we call them Shonen. Isekai has become the anime phrase of the century at this point. Even something with a pretty easy translation - Mahou Shoujo - is still written as such by some people. Even if you yourself would rather call it Magical Girl, if someone else said Mahou Shoujo, you'd still know what they were talking about because the term has become so widely adopted.

 

[dy4y]

But no, the term 'trap' does not have a negative connotation nor baggage. It has always been used to describe a specific trope/character type. Nobody had any problems using it until very recently, when some trans activists who are not of the hobby decides that it's problematic.

I got into anime around 2013 and for as long as I've been here I've seen people telling others to stop using "trap", I personally don't think over a decade would constitute as "very recently"

To quote a now 7-year-old YouTube video:

"David Duke is calling trans people traps; the transgender Starcraft pro Scarlett is being referred to as a trap constantly in various comments sections under uploads of her matches. [...] The largest trans sub on Reddit is r/traps and it has well over twice as many followers as r/transporn [...] I'm sorry to say it, but you're being naively optimistic if you think trap isn't widely normalised as encompassing trans people as well."
[...]
"How much clearer do things have to be than the ex-leader of the Klu Klux Klan expressing disgust at a group of people and his followers clamouring for those people’s death in response for you to call a term a slur? This is the way slurs are used, this is what a slur looks like. You can even be someone who thinks it’s okay to use “trap” still, but if nothing else you’ve got to acknowledge that the term is, among other things, an anti-trans slur."

-The Pedantic Romantic. "Traps" Don't Exist And Here's Why.
(just for the record, many statements made in that video are outdated (which shows you its age) and there is also a bit of false information present, but overall it's still a pretty okay video)

 

[MidnighTea]

Scarlett is amazing and it kind of hurts she got that kind of attention from the worst people. I didn't even know that story. I know she turned down people calling her the new Queen of Blades but if anyone ever deserved the title, she does. (is it not the most Zerg thing possible to continually metamorphoses and perfect yourself? trans people get their ideals)

 

[MidnighTea]

Because I find it funny that someone this old is getting so invested into telling people on the internet that they shouldn't be using a word

For the record, I kinda feel younger at 40 than I did 30. When you turn 30 it feels like a whole gravity thing like "oh shit I'm not young anymore". At 40 I'm like "oh friggin whatever I'm just gonna live my life without thinking of the number".

I hope your transition (lol) is as clean as mine was. And yeah just because I'm 40+ doesn't mean I suddenly stop having opinions about how to best accommodate people who have suffered enough as it is. I think being nice to people is awesome.

 

[Kurmon]

T-word as in trap??? You guys really need to touch some grass and go lift some weights

Lifting is great for your traps, actually.

 

[Medusa]

I got into anime around 2013 and for as long as I've been here I've seen people telling others to stop using "trap", I personally don't think over a decade would constitute as "very recently"

Anything after 2005 is recent because it's less than 20 years.

Also, stop trying to bring real life stuff to online manga communities, like I said in the previous page, it's not gonna happen or be received with open arms.

 

[Kampfarsch]

Nah, that's the AI TLs.

Infinitely better than nothing, Ironic weebs bringing politics into the hobby are an actual cancer on the medium.
If you think "trap" is offensive you need to leave.

 

[dy4y]

Anything after 2005 is recent because it's less than 20 years.

Oh wow, you're really reaching with that one. The weeb usage of "trap" is only just past 20 years itself so that would mean that any criticism of its usage is going to be recent since the word itself is "very recent".

 

[YurushiteHyacinth]

Oh wow, you're really reaching with that one. The weeb usage of "trap" is only just past 20 years itself so that would mean that any criticism of its usage is going to be recent since the word itself is "very recent".

Fucking right??? First you invoke seniority on the word, then you do this.

Not to mention all these people being like "if you're bothered by 'trap' you're not a real manga fan", like... fuck off.

 

[Shita-kiri_Suzume]

Infinitely better than nothing, Ironic weebs bringing politics into the hobby are an actual cancer on the medium.
If you think "trap" is offensive you need to leave.

"Ironic weebs", is that it? Yes, I did in fact go through the trouble of providing a series I love with a proper translation as a practical joke, because I secretly despise manga. Mhm. Makes perfect sense.

 

[MidnighTea]

Calling people "cancer" is a genocidal dogwhistle. Because cancer isn't something you try to reason with or come to any kind of understanding. You need to eliminate every single cancer cell in order for it to be gone. So calling people "cancer" is pretty much announcing intent for how you want them dealt with.

Incidentally I'm not going anywhere. Deal with it.