Otoyomegatari - Vol. 13 Ch. 94 - Crossroads

[eRW298]

@criver Honestly I can't force you to feel empathy with anything or anyone. It is not my concern anyway. But I'd like to point out one thing: those logic can be used to anyone else, not only OE or Russia. Since any military is made up of average person who are influenced by propaganda as you stated before.

I even dare to say that loss of empathy to certain group is one of objectives instilled by such propaganda. Especially when such judgement is based on something that have not been proven yet, such as saying that "those people potentially commit atrocities"

Such prejudices to people, no matter what their ancestor did to survive, is simply rude and divisive. Can we just see people based on what they did? Not from what their parent did.

As for denier, I should admit that denial will not solve anything. But demanding reparations wouldn't sound right. After all the one who did wrong was their predecessor not the people in the present. Rather than pointing finger to each other for past tragedies, wouldn't it be better if both side just admit the truth of history and make a way for the future? Past mistakes couldn't be mended but the future can.

 

[criver]

@eRW298

Since any military is made up of average person who are influenced by propaganda as you stated before.

I wouldn't agree that all people and all military have resorted to genocide. Make whatever you want from that. There may be cultural, religious, and educational factors that play into people being able to dehumanize other groups of people. This doesn't change the end result however.

Especially when such judgement is based on something that have not been proven yet, such as saying that "those people potentially commit atrocities"

It's a manga, I can allow myself to err in my judgment without it having an effect on fictional characters.

Such prejudices to people, no matter what their ancestor did to survive, is simply rude and divisive.

I already addressed this when replying to a different user. I do not hold the people today accountable for what their predecessors did. But I do hold their predecessors accountable for what they have done. Which was the point of my comment.

But demanding reparations wouldn't sound right. After all the one who did wrong was their predecessor not the people in the present.

There's nothing wrong with demanding reparations from the government if it has profited from said event. The same way as your government's debts do not magically disappear. This is not purely my opinion - you can read more on the subject if you want. But I digress.

 

[Apero]

@criver Try reading your post again yourself. Some imperialists aren't as bad as others. They don't kill as many people. They don't strangle local culture as much. Don't burn as many villages. Don't uproot as many tribes who lived on the land for centuries. I understand the value cultural unification of ethnicities brings long-term. But it doesn't excuse all the blood shed in the process. And there are no scales to genocide. A power either does it or not. And if they do, they're just as abhorrent as the rest of them no matter what else they bring with them later on. Because the dead don't care about any of that.

 

[Lisahey]

Ohhhh man, things are suddenly getting WAY too real. I thought Nik was dead for sure. Hope the OG family is doing well.

 

[criver]

@Apero You're still trying to push the narrative that I am defending a Russian genocide when I didn't even mention it to begin with. Good luck with that endeavor. I have no doubt that you can debate that strawman you created.

 

[orth0dox]

I for one don't get the excitement for "Nik being such a bad ass". I truly feel scenes like this undermine hyper-realistic approach of this manga. Just look at what happened: "Nik is not a reckless man" -> Nik immediately goes rambo mode and kills numbers of professional soldiers (!) in melee scuffle and then safely returns back. Oh and those people also happen to be his compatriots, but it doesn't stop him from brutally dispatching of them.
Nor am I a big fan of killing some random story extras just because author didn't bother to describe their life, so obviously I need to commiserate with main characters here instead of peoples they are killing.
And most glaring flaw - these killings weren't even necessary by the plot, on the contrary without them it would look more realistic. Just shoot back a little bit to show that you're armed, and soldiers would be vary to push further, they aren't interested in capturing retreating civilians anyway.
Mori should stick to themes she's good at: love, slice of life and different cultures.

 

[kami_chan]

danger after danger, I'm really worried about all the characters

 

[rugofbugs]

This just tells me that Nik has seen some shit

 

[Ghost_Bear]

@orth0dox We don't really fully know what Mori was going for when she made Nik fend off and kill these soldiers and you're probably right in that they wouldn't be interested in feeling civilians but perhaps they were aiming for them because it was a group of women and children? It wouldn't fit with Mori's themes but if we're putting real life context then we perhaps the soldiers were trying to use them as hostages, slaves, or "comfort" women. I'm probably reading too much into it. Anyways I do definitely think Mori is better at romance and SoL, but I do look forward to where she is leading this towards.

 

[Apero]

@criver I didn't say you were defending a genocide. You were suggesting that Russian version of conquest wasn't just as bad as any other. And that's what annoyed me. And if by chance you're from Russia yourself, that's called nationalism. And I'm attracting your attention to that possibility because almost nobody would ever do that. It's a norm to say things like that about their own country, ethnicity, tribe or whatever. And nobody says anything. You just got unlucky with me. Might be you'll never hear this from anybody else for the rest of your life.

 

[criver]

@Apero

You were suggesting that Russian version of conquest wasn't just as bad as any other. And that's what annoyed me.

Except Russia actually liberated the Balkans and did not conquer them. The countries there remained for the most part autonomous. That's what I was referring to. For once an empire didn't actually trample over the sovereignty, culture, and tradition of the countries that it liberated. You can argue that this was the case due to propaganda and the religion aligning, but the fact remains that this was used for a "good cause". The troops were volunteers in great part. Considering the above it was a lot easier for me to sympathize with the Russian troops in the above manga. Simply because hindsight is 20/20 and I knew which country was actually on the "right side" of history.

And if by chance you're from Russia yourself, that's called nationalism.

I wonder, if the manga was about the winter war, and I sided with the Finnish you'd be guessing I was a Fin right about now? Just because I knew which country had the "moral high ground" historically doesn't mean I am from that country. The whole occasion is even funnier considering our MC is British.

 

[That_ylda]

Omg, the war is here! It was hinted at though out the manga but now we can actually see soldiers! Also the Comment section is getting quite heated but that was to be expected since it is based in actual history.

 

[stannct]

i came here for a good time and now im continually stressed

 

[Jeraflare]

I think this is a neat crossroads and definitely a tough choice - safety and keeping his promise to leave if things get hairy vs staying to help people (hes basically a doctor now, yeah?) + the people hes met and care about + the scholarly duty involved in being one of the only people with a half decent camera ...

I feel like hes gonna stay with it and insist they dont need to follow him any further into the fray but theyll insist theyre in it together...cus that seems to be the trend and also "and then they went home" would drastically change our story wouldnt it. though it would still be an adventure it seems if theyre already too far in and get suspected for being spies again / if soldiers end up reconizing niko

and I bet someones gon get hurt 😟

 

[Sparrowhawk]

Oh nonononono... What a cliffhanger.

 

[Macarena]

This really took a turn, I was really anxious when Nik stayed behind, I am so glad he was fine.
Thank you so much for the update!!

 

[Eeliejun]

Tbh, did not like the fight scene. A big thing for me in this story is that all life is important and that war or fighting is horrible for both sides because all of them have a life and loved ones. Also the fight scene was a bit... Nik would have died in RL by doing that and we saw in this story already if you do stupid things you will have a bad time. This felt a bit too much and think it would be good enough without the melee...

 

[Nunally]

@SuperOniichan @petro_sino thank you

 

[Lexical]

Oh boy did that give me anxiety.

@Eeliejun although artistic liberties were taken, the soldiers of the Russian Empire just weren't as well equipped or trained as their counterparts. While other countries such as France and England were already upgrading to weapons that could use minie ball rounds ( rounds that have the modern bullet shape we're familiar with ) , the situation was so poor that some of the Russian troop reserves were still lugging around flint lock muskets, a technology that had been around since 1650. They also suffered from poor terrible training, with some sources stating that the majority of their infantry were issued with no more than 10 practice rounds a year and it was reported that some men with as many as 25 years of service did not even know how to properly use their muskets.

On the other hand it's suggested that Nik has seen combat before so i believe he had at least a non-zero chance of survival even without plot armor

 

[Bootybug]

Whew what a badass, that was unnerving.