Parallel Paradise - Vol. 6 Ch. 53 - Morning Glory

[aFFi]

@Ruhrpottpatriot
Well, I personally expect a translation, not an adaptation. Even by bigger groups.
If you have a problem with how one addresses another in a manga, then you have a problem with the source material.
I don't really care what the "appropriate" way to speak was in that supposed period in time, as most manga that would "need" such treatment are actually set in a fictional fantastic world, where our History doesn't necessary apply, but might inspire it.
If the mangaka's decided to add the -sama honorific, I don't think it's the job of the translator to ignore that and change it to what you deem more correct.

@Ironclad
I actually have no problem with a well written grammatically correct translation. But like I said before, I want an actual translation, the closest possible to the original material... not an adaptation

 

[Ironclad]

@aFFi Is a correct translation one that conveys all possible connotations of its original language or one that conveys the intended one? What you consider holistic, I consider obtuse.

 

[Ruhrpottpatriot]

@Anoon2323 The windpipe article on English honorific is far too simple and doesn't convey even the most basic things about english Etiquette. Again: English and all other Germanic Languages convey honorifics with grammar and sentence structure as opposed to Japanese suffixes, that's why you can't simply list them. The same goes for your example "Spanish". Romance languages also convey such things mainly in suffixes (a leftover from Latin)
An example for the Honorific "Lord": Is the person the title owner? First born? Second born? Daughter? Wife? Do you address them in person or a Letter and in the latter case is it the first time addressing them or a subsequent time? Do they have a title in their own right?
Depending on these questions you address them in a different way and never just with "Lord". Stating that there are little equivalents is simply not true.

It also has to be noted, that many people don't use Honorifics on the internet (almost never), yet you are expected to use them in everyday life if appropriate. The German Ministry of the Interior has published a 174 page(!) long guideline how to address people in letters, in person and depending on their status and while I couldn't find anything from the UK Home Ministry I'm pretty sure it exists and is equally long.
In Europe the whole society has become far more open and less rigid since '45. Not addressing a person properly is now only considered a faux pas instead of an open insult, much in contrast to the very rigid social structure of Japan. Again: That doesn't mean that the language doesn't support these forms of address and applying that based on context is the job of a translator.

The argument, that this is a fantasy world also doesn't add up. The MC might be Japanese, thus speak and think Japanese, so him using honorifics is normal, but why do other people, clearly not Japanese also use them? The story is not written as a first person account by the MC, but from a third person, language agnostic, spectator.

@aFFi Leaving out parts that are perfectly translatable is no translation it's unfinished work. The tools to convey the meaning close to the source exists, the translators just choose not to use them. You'd never see a (professionally) translated book, outside of research material, that keeps honorifics. The author added -sama because there is a relative social level difference between two persons, which can be represented in the target language.
Let's take the current chapter as an example: The translators choose to use "babaa". There are plenty of words with the exact same meaning that they could've used. Hag and granny are the first that come to mind. Later on they even use the latter and then slap the romaji in parenthesis behind it for no reason.
It goes on with -san and -sama. Instead of Youta-san they could've called him Youta, since the English equivalent of -san is a you without title and honorific, or if the persons are somewhat unaquainted use Mr. Youta (but that's clearly too formal here). The "level up" to -sama can then be translated by Mr. Youta (if you follow the notion that -sama is the customary form of address on letters) or in this case more appropriate Sir Youta, since Sir can also mean a form of respect.
There's always something lost in translation and if you don't want that one has to read the source material.

 

[primrosea]

people bitching about translation or adaptation while forgetting not everyone in the world are native English-speaker and/or from Europe/wherever

for people who only knew basic conversation level English (like me) Japanese suffixes are easier since you know there's a level to it, kinda like how you know 2 is bigger than 1, it's even easier for people who have that kinda suffixes/prefixes in their language.

maybe it's lazy, but it's far more 'global' than adaptation, you only need to read a bit about Japanese suffixes and doesn't have to learn all those English etiquette, grammar and sentence structure for God knows how many years in college just to know if a certain character are considered acquaintance or friend or best friend or whatever by others

 

[Cleesus]

Why yal always arguing

 

[firosahoge]

best way to end an arc ?

 

[Vahlokdotiid]

A farewell orgy, tis tradition.

 

[MrNubishly]

GODDAMMIT TIA U ARE SPILLING UR DIRTY JUICE ON THE GOOD FOOD

 

[GrimThoughts]

I have the distinct feeling that Hanahana is gonna die

 

[DSuper]

it's a fucking moon WHAT qefknasnlkefnaewljlwefmlmwflafg

 

[RTX3090]

tia best gurl

 

[Tatherwood]

This is when the "details" of the worldbuilding come up and are lacking.
No one's gonna ask him to mate with a few of girls in the city to prevent the moonbreak? This one's MUCH smaller.
Hanahana (or anyone) is not gonna ask about her collar? She's inquisitive by nature.

See, it's fine if the author wants to keep it a secret. But SOMEONE has to ask the question. There's no way they wouldn't.
And that's where this manga's lacking, unfortunately.