Ruri Dragon - Ch. 12 - Making Something Fun for Everyone

[Aoitenshi]

But the source material is using slang. Surely you didn't think that "わからん" is the full, non-shortened Japanese for "I do not understand"? That would be "わからない" or even "分かりません", for the record.
Similarly, what they used for "ain't [my,your] throat parched?"(literally, that's what "nodo kawakan?" means) is not the slangless "this makes me thirsty", even if it's not the less literal "my pipes could use a drink" that the official translation used.

わからん vs わからない/わかりません is not a slang vs not slang. It depicts how casual their tone is:
1. わからん -> pretty casual
2. わからない -> casual
3. わかりません -> formal

Contractions like this are very common in Japanese and are used widespread across all age groups, which go against the definition of slang. From the parts that I read (chapter 1-3 and chapter 12), I couldn't find even a single slang used in the raws. Although do let me know if you find one, especially since I missed the rest of the chapters since they're now stuck behind a paywall.

 

[Rgal]

わからん vs わからない/わかりません is not a slang vs not slang. It depicts how casual their tone is:
1. わからん -> pretty casual
2. わからない -> casual
3. わかりません -> formal

Contractions like this are very common in Japanese and are used widespread across all age groups, which go against the definition of slang. From the parts that I read (chapter 1-3 and chapter 12), I couldn't find even a single slang used in the raws. Although do let me know if you find one, especially since I missed the rest of the chapters since they're now stuck behind a paywall.

I don't know what you think definition of slang is, but actual definition has nothing to do with age groups and everything to do with casual and informal vocabulary. Here's cambridge dictionary's definition, for example:

very informal language that is usually spoken rather than written, used especially by particular groups of people

 

[FearlessDawg]

Maeda isn't necessarily wrong, Ruri does not care for meeting new people or trying to get along in the same way (I assume) Maeda does.

The problem is that Maeda is hostile to Ruri for that while doing the same thing she's accusing Ruri of. You can't complain that she doesn't care for other people when you yourself aren't really trying to get to know Ruri.

I'm sure she's a nice girl though, she's just weird, like Ruri but differently!

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

I don't know what you think definition of slang is, but actual definition has nothing to do with age groups and everything to do with casual and informal vocabulary. Here's cambridge dictionary's definition, for example:

Bro, talk about confirmation bias. Every other definition, and even the definition on the exact page you linked makes it clear slang isn't just "informal language", but a unique vocabulary. Like, if you'd hit spacebar just a single time, you'd see this one the exact same page:

Grammar​

Slang
Slang is vocabulary that is used between people who belong to the same social group and who know each other well. Slang is very informal language. It can offend people if it is used about other people or outside a group of people who know each other well. We usually use slang in speaking rather than writing. Slang normally refers to particular words and meanings but can include longer expressions and idioms. …

They're being casual, but they're hardly using slang.

 

[Rgal]

Bro, talk about confirmation bias. Every other definition, and even the definition on the exact page you linked makes it clear slang isn't just "informal language", but a unique vocabulary. Like, if you'd hit spacebar just a single time, you'd see this one the exact same page:


They're being casual, but they're hardly using slang.

So you picked one definition that explicitely excludes this example from being slang while ignoring every other definition that does no suh thing and you talk to me about confirmation bias? That's hilarious.

You do realise that this overly narrow definition also excludes the officially translated part of example that you yourself gave?

No, what I mean is that the "translator" is taking on the role of a second writer and turning what is casual speech into slang-laden drivel. Here's an example from Chapter 9 that sums up the problem:

She basically says something along the lines of "All that talkin' makes you thirsty, doesn't it?" in the typical casual tone of this manga. The "Translator" turns it into... whatever that is on the left. There's really not that much slang, and his way of reflecting casual, relaxed speech is to make them talk like... whatever the fuck this is supposed to be.

Which of these words is supposed to be "unique vocabulary", again?

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

So you picked one definition that explicitely excludes this example from being slang while ignoring every other definition that does no suh thing and you talk to me about confirmation bias? That's hilarious.

I picked the example from the thing you linked. I keep looking around, and the thing you specifically quoted seems to be the only one that doesn't clarify that it's a set of vocabulary, figures of speech, and coinages. Except when it does, just barely off screen, on the exact same page.

Like, I don't think it's actually possible for you to live half as long as I think you have and not know that slang isn't just "When people are casual", but rather its own, unique lexicon of words and phrases, with its own grammatical rules. And the fact that you quoted what seems to be the only thing on the internet that doesn't explicitly say that, including every other part of the exact same page, suggests you really didn't want to be contradicted.


Between the rest of the page clarifying that it's a unique vocabulary, the other searches are things like lists of slang terms, phrases, and the like, and basically every other dictionary preview on the search containing the word "Vocabulary" in plain view, I wonder why you thought you'd be able to double down here.

Which of these words is supposed to be "unique vocabulary", again?

On the right side? None. This is all very standard, if casual, Japanese. There isn't a shred of slang involved. On the left? "Pipes", "Yapping". Great, I know what the guy made her say; I'm a native English speaker. And I know enough Japanese to know that the guy's written a totally different character from the source material.

 

[immy]

I don't think this TL goes far enough.
What's point of being translator if your work doesn't leave permanent mark on your language?
Then again I guess translating something Ruri Dragon is different beast from translating something like LOTR or Harry Potter.

 

[Rgal]

I picked the example from the thing you linked. I keep looking around, and the thing you specifically quoted seems to be the only one that doesn't clarify that it's a set of vocabulary, figures of speech, and coinages. Except when it does, just barely off screen, on the exact same page.

Like, I don't think it's actually possible for you to live half as long as I think you have and not know that slang isn't just "When people are casual", but rather its own, unique lexicon of words and phrases, with its own grammatical rules. And the fact that you quoted what seems to be the only thing on the internet that doesn't explicitly say that, including every other part of the exact same page, suggests you really didn't want to be contradicted.


Between the rest of the page clarifying that it's a unique vocabulary, the other searches are things like lists of slang terms, phrases, and the like, and basically every other dictionary preview on the search containing the word "Vocabulary" in plain view, I wonder why you thought you'd be able to double down here.


On the right side? None. This is all very standard, if casual, Japanese. There isn't a shred of slang involved. On the left? "Pipes", "Yapping". Great, I know what the guy made her say; I'm a native English speaker. And I know enough Japanese to know that the guy's written a totally different character from the source material.

Well, I picked the first link google gave me. Which was wikipedia article that didn't put any importance on age groups, but hey, it's wikipedia! So I quoted the thing it quoted as a citation instead… which was Cambridge dictionary entry that did not put any importance on particular age groups either. Feel free to links to all of those dictionaries you "looked around" that say otherwise, though!

As it happens, as a non-native English speaker, I also understood official translation. It's not hard. Even if you don't know beforehand that "pipes" can refer to non-literal pipes like, say, human throat, and that "yapping" does not necessarily refer to literal sounds of literal dogs, it is still obvious from the context what the meaning is. And when it isn't — well, as it happens, dictionaries do know that "pipes is what "vocal cords" are informally called, and that "yapping" is an informal way to say "talking continuously" (and that it was in usage for more than 200 years at least, so a hypothetical random reader from 20 years later shouldn't have any more problems with understanding it than we are).

Face it, you are tilting at windmills.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Well, I picked the first link google gave me. Which was wikipedia article

Wikipedia:

A slang is a vocabulary (words, phrases, and linguistic usages) of an informal register,

You went SO far out of your way to ignore anything that specified "Vocabulary" just so you'd have some definition to quote at me that made you right. Not that any of this matters, because we all know slang is a vocabulary.

Feel free to links to all of those dictionaries you "looked around" that say otherwise, though!

Why? Everything you've linked says the same thing. You just lasered in on the one part of the page you linked that didn't explicitly tell you what we already know is the case.

a hypothetical random reader from 20 years later shouldn't have any more problems with understanding it than we are).

Face it, you are tilting at windmills.

I literally don't care whether a reader "Understands" it or not. You're talking to the wrong guy. There's no point getting into personal experience, because now all I have to do is tell you about how I know someone who didn't understand.

 

[Wildtale]

 

[zymosan99]

Or perhaps they want all the japanese memes and slangs untranslated and the corners of the pages filled with notes + 2 extra credit pages explaining the source and cultural origins of the trendy words, memes and abbreviations.

I mean, that would be cool. I wouldn't know what WWWWW means without that type of thing

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

I mean, that would be cool. I wouldn't know what WWWWW means without that type of thing

Then you'll love my work on Mako-san.

 

[MacKnight]

Looks like Maeda and Ruri needs a good old fashioned fist out. (Aka beat each other up)

 

[Serenata]

I mean, that would be cool. I wouldn't know what WWWWW means without that type of thing

Yeah but I'm just thinking realistically because this comes simultaneously with the Japanese release so thinking back to the old days, it really makes me appreciate how good things are now.
Once the anime comes out eventually (maybe?), I bet we will have some fansubs with extra care for details, and specially time.

 

[YamiryuuZero]

Basically, as a teenager, she speaks with slang teenagers use these days and that's the same in Japanese so basically the translation uses modern slangs in English to emulate that feeling, but certain boomer haaaaaates that, because he can't relate, maybe he wants her to talk like a teenager from 10 or 20 years ago.

Or perhaps they want all the japanese memes and slangs untranslated and the corners of the pages filled with notes + 2 extra credit pages explaining the source and cultural origins of the trendy words, memes and abbreviations.

Or perhaps they want a complete neutral translation, similar to what google translate would give you so older people won't feel out of place, because as you know, manga is only read by people above the age of 30

It's not the insertion of modern day teenager slang, it's the insertion where none belong, as well as poor translation of the dialogue that doesn't convey what the characters are saying in Japanese.

In CH. 1, for example, the exchange between mother and daughter goes:
ねぇ　これなんだと思う？ (Hey, what do you think these are?)
角だと思う (I think they're horns.)
・・・だよね (... of course)

The dialogue is straight forward with Ruri confused and taken aback by her mother's straight deadpan response.

Here's how the localized version changed it:
"So, any thoughts?"
"I think... they're horns."
"Nothing gets past you."

The localization makes her mother seem aloof, introducing the "..." to give her time to think, while it's Ruri who gives a snarky comment immediately by removing her "・・・" from the translation.

The localized version made them exchange their personalities for this conversation. That's not good localization, they're altering the characters' personalities for no reason.

Other examples go as follow:
お父さんも角生えてるから　ほれパンたべな　(Your father has horns too. Here, eat your bread.) ⇒ "Your dad has horns, so now you do too. Here's your toast."

龍ってなに？　(What's a ryuu?) ⇒ "Come again?"

それ何の冗談？ (What kind of joke is that?) ⇒ "Har har. Oh wait, I'm not laughing."

念のため休んどいてもいいけど (Just in case, you can take the day off today.) ⇒ "Maybe you should stay home - for obvious reasons."

えっ待って　マジなの？ (Huh, wait, are you serious?) ⇒ "Wait, I should really go?"
うん　マジ (Yes, I'm serious.) ⇒ "Sure."

よっし　間に合う (Alright, I'll make it in time.) ⇒ "I'll prolly make it on time."

・・・確か日本の龍って　『鯉』・・・？ (...if I'm not mistaken, a Japanese Ryuu is / a "carp"...?) ⇒ "I guess the traditional ryu is more like... / ...a koi fish?

えっ　もしかしてそのツノの話してる？　(Eh/ Could it be that you're talking about the horns?) ⇒ "Does that... / ... have something to do with your new look?"

目立ちませんように・・・ (Please, don't let them stand out...) ⇒ "Okay... I'll try not to make a scene..."

やめて　見ないでください　(Stop, please don't look at me.) ⇒　"Quit it. Don't look at me."

はい　おはよ　(Hi, mornin') ⇒ "Morning, one and all."

じゃあ、いいけど (Then, it's fine.) ⇒　"Good enough for me."
いいのか (is it?) ⇒　"Are we sure?"

 

[YamiryuuZero]

It's not the insertion of modern day teenager slang, it's the insertion where none belong, as well as poor translation of the dialogue that doesn't convey what the characters are saying in Japanese.

In CH. 1, for example, the exchange between mother and daughter goes:
ねぇ　これなんだと思う？ (Hey, what do you think these are?)
角だと思う (I think they're horns.)
・・・だよね (... of course)

The dialogue is straight forward with Ruri confused and taken aback by her mother's straight deadpan response.

Here's how the localized version changed it:
"So, any thoughts?"
"I think... they're horns."
"Nothing gets past you."

The localization makes her mother seem aloof, introducing the "..." to give her time to think, while it's Ruri who gives a snarky comment immediately by removing her "・・・" from the translation.

The localized version made them exchange their personalities for this conversation. That's not good localization, they're altering the characters' personalities for no reason.

Other examples go as follow:
お父さんも角生えてるから　ほれパンたべな　(Your father has horns too. Here, eat your bread.) ⇒ "Your dad has horns, so now you do too. Here's your toast."

龍ってなに？　(What's a ryuu?) ⇒ "Come again?"

それ何の冗談？ (What kind of joke is that?) ⇒ "Har har. Oh wait, I'm not laughing."

念のため休んどいてもいいけど (Just in case, you take the day off today.) ⇒ "Maybe you should stay home - for obvious reasons."

えっ待って　マジなの？ (Huh, wait, are you serious?) ⇒ "Wait, I should really go?"
うん　マジ (Yes, I'm serious.) ⇒ "Sure."

よっし　間に合う (Alright, I'll make it in time.) ⇒ "I'll prolly make it on time."

・・・確か日本の龍って　『鯉』・・・？ (...if I'm not mistaken, a Japanese Ryuu is / a "carp"...?) ⇒ "I guess the traditional ryu is more like... / ...a koi fish?

えっ　もしかしてそのツノの話してる？　(Eh/ Could it be that you're talking about the horns?) ⇒ "Does that... / ... have something to do with your new look?"

目立ちませんように・・・ (Please, don't let them stand out...) ⇒ "Okay... I'll try not to make a scene..."

やめて　見ないでください　(Stop, please don't look at me.) ⇒　"Quit it. Don't look at me."

はい　おはよ　(Hi, mornin') ⇒ "Morning, one and all."

じゃあ、いいけど (Then, it's fine.) ⇒　"Good enough for me."
いいのか (is it?) ⇒　"Are we sure?"

Basically, as a teenager, she speaks with slang teenagers use these days and that's the same in Japanese so basically the translation uses modern slangs in English to emulate that feeling, but certain boomer haaaaaates that, because he can't relate, maybe he wants her to talk like a teenager from 10 or 20 years ago.

Or perhaps they want all the japanese memes and slangs untranslated and the corners of the pages filled with notes + 2 extra credit pages explaining the source and cultural origins of the trendy words, memes and abbreviations.

Or perhaps they want a complete neutral translation, similar to what google translate would give you so older people won't feel out of place, because as you know, manga is only read by people above the age of 30

And that's mostly the gist of the localization. It inserts slang where there are none and removes them where there are, shifts Ruri's personality to be much drier and sarcastic when she isn't, takes away her prayer to go unnoticed (which shows she doesn't like being the center of attention) and implies she is ( or believes to be) in control of the attention she receives, removes her plea to have people stop paying attention and turns into a demand as if she is used to talking to people, and there's a trend of changing dialogue that flows naturally from one line to another into "punched up" sentences that extend the length of their lines without need and incur different responses than the original text.

These are just a few examples I could list here, but the entire manga is translated like that. It's change for the sake of change, and not be in line with the target audience or how teenagers are expected to talk in English.

The manga is about Japanese characters living in a Japanese society and Ruri even makes a point of addressing the idea that her father is a JAPANESE Dragon, implying their nationality is a huge part of the lore behind it, so making the dialogue sound like it's a bunch of American teenagers using American lingo doesn't make sense. But even if that weren't the case, the problem isn't that American lingo is being used, the problem is that slangs are being inserted where they don't belong, removed where they do and characters' personalities are being altered.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

It's not the insertion of modern day teenager slang, it's the insertion where none belong, as well as poor translation of the dialogue that doesn't convey what the characters are saying in Japanese.

In CH. 1, for example, the exchange between mother and daughter goes:
ねぇ　これなんだと思う？ (Hey, what do you think these are?)
角だと思う (I think they're horns.)
・・・だよね (... of course)

The dialogue is straight forward with Ruri confused and taken aback by her mother's straight deadpan response.

Here's how the localized version changed it:
"So, any thoughts?"
"I think... they're horns."
"Nothing gets past you."

The localization makes her mother seem aloof, introducing the "..." to give her time to think, while it's Ruri who gives a snarky comment immediately by removing her "・・・" from the translation.

The localized version made them exchange their personalities for this conversation. That's not good localization, they're altering the characters' personalities for no reason.

Other examples go as follow:
お父さんも角生えてるから　ほれパンたべな　(Your father has horns too. Here, eat your bread.) ⇒ "Your dad has horns, so now you do too. Here's your toast."

龍ってなに？　(What's a ryuu?) ⇒ "Come again?"

それ何の冗談？ (What kind of joke is that?) ⇒ "Har har. Oh wait, I'm not laughing."

念のため休んどいてもいいけど (Just in case, you take the day off today.) ⇒ "Maybe you should stay home - for obvious reasons."

えっ待って　マジなの？ (Huh, wait, are you serious?) ⇒ "Wait, I should really go?"
うん　マジ (Yes, I'm serious.) ⇒ "Sure."

よっし　間に合う (Alright, I'll make it in time.) ⇒ "I'll prolly make it on time."

・・・確か日本の龍って　『鯉』・・・？ (...if I'm not mistaken, a Japanese Ryuu is / a "carp"...?) ⇒ "I guess the traditional ryu is more like... / ...a koi fish?

えっ　もしかしてそのツノの話してる？　(Eh/ Could it be that you're talking about the horns?) ⇒ "Does that... / ... have something to do with your new look?"

目立ちませんように・・・ (Please, don't let them stand out...) ⇒ "Okay... I'll try not to make a scene..."

やめて　見ないでください　(Stop, please don't look at me.) ⇒　"Quit it. Don't look at me."

はい　おはよ　(Hi, mornin') ⇒ "Morning, one and all."

じゃあ、いいけど (Then, it's fine.) ⇒　"Good enough for me."
いいのか (is it?) ⇒　"Are we sure?"

Here I was just focusing on the slang. I hadn't gone line by line, so I didn't realize how drastically he'd changed their personalities too. That said, it's about what I've come to expect. Now that you were so kind as to point it all out, I'm reminded of how insidious these... people... are.

 

[WaffleIroner]

Damn, didn't realize how much the translation improved on the original. I guess that's what comes with having a professional translation.

 

[Wildtale]

And that's mostly the gist of the localization. It inserts slang where there are none and removes them where there are, shifts Ruri's personality to be much drier and sarcastic when she isn't, takes away her prayer to go unnoticed (which shows she doesn't like being the center of attention) and implies she is ( or believes to be) in control of the attention she receives, removes her plea to have people stop paying attention and turns into a demand as if she is used to talking to people, and there's a trend of changing dialogue that flows naturally from one line to another into "punched up" sentences that extend the length of their lines without need and incur different responses than the original text.

These are just a few examples I could list here, but the entire manga is translated like that. It's change for the sake of change, and not be in line with the target audience or how teenagers are expected to talk in English.

The manga is about Japanese characters living in a Japanese society and Ruri even makes a point of addressing the idea that her father is a JAPANESE Dragon, implying their nationality is a huge part of the lore behind it, so making the dialogue sound like it's a bunch of American teenagers using American lingo doesn't make sense. But even if that weren't the case, the problem isn't that American lingo is being used, the problem is that slangs are being inserted where they don't belong, removed where they do and characters' personalities are being altered.

Thank you for so clearly defining the qualms some of us had with the localization! It always saddens me when this happens - I mean, if I wanted something American, I'd be reading cartoons!

Now I wonder if it would be worth creating a fan translation on the side for those of us interested in the original, but lacking an understanding of Japanese....

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Thank you for so clearly defining the qualms some of us had with the localization! It always saddens me when this happens - I mean, if I wanted something American, I'd be reading cartoons!

Now I wonder if it would be worth creating a fan translation on the side for those of us interested in the original, but lacking an understanding of Japanese....

Your only real hope would be buying the chapters yourself, then commissioning someone to translate them for you. (Cough cough. Suggestive cough). After that, you're free to upload them yourself, or squirrel them away for your private collection. Otherwise, there's no hope, since groups generally prefer not to touch licensed stuff.