Ruri Dragon - Ch. 14 - I Wanna Learn About You, Maeda

[anf]

Take it up with the Japanese, because that's what that means. Yeah, it's kind of a vain hope. Vain hope is all she's got when she's this meek, and the horns that obvious. On it's own [Verb]ように is basically the speaker hoping whatever the verb occurs. In this case, it's not standing out.

I'm sure you must realize that 目立ちません does not literally and only mean "to not stand out" right? That's just one interpretation of it... "I'll try not to make a scene" is a perfectly fine colloquial way to say the same thing in english.

And I like how you are completely, again, avoiding talking about my second point in which she completely shuts down the guy in literally the next panel. She's not meek dude, she just doesn't want to stand out. The case in point is that if she was truly meek, she wouldn't have gone to class to begin with. She had every chance to back out, but she didn't.

The only thing that could be considered meek about her is that she doesn't particularly like to be the center of attention... but that's pretty normal for most people. She gets nervous because she's not used to it. I would certainly not call it her main characteristic. However, in spite of that hesitation, she willingly puts herself out there. You call it "character development" but it's what she's been doing since chapter 1. When has she not put herself out there?

I can think of one time she gave in. When she got scared of her power because she burnt the hair on the kid's head in front of her. Pretty understandable reaction. And what does she immediately do? Lays around for a couple days, but then goes out and teaches herself how to control it. She goes back to school and first thing she does is apologize to the kid for singeing his hair.

Her character development isn't "getting over her meekness" it's her learning that there is value in getting to know the people around her. That's literally the whole point of the manga. The irony is that it's her dragon traits coming out (dragons which, in this universe, are known to be hermits who avoid people) that is the impetus for her change in character and her newfound desire to interact with more people.

That's why everyone was shocked.

You know who wasn't shocked? Her best friend who has known her for years. She literally says herself that Ruri was the one who approached her to be friends. Even in the conversation with maeda you can tell Ruri isn't meek at all. She immediately defends yuka and casually admonishes Maeda for her poor table manners of looking at her phone. That isn't the attitude of the meek. She starts the conversation on her terms, directs the conversation, and then ends the conversation as she wants. I mean how could you possibly read that exchange and not realize that Ruri is in full control?

Look, I appreciate that you speak some Japanese, but clearly, you haven't grasped the soul of the language itself, and you're stuck trying to correct someone who's been learning it since before you even knew what a "Japan" was.

Kid, you've been translating for a year. I literally lived and worked in Japan for longer than that. I get that you're proud of your status as a fan translator for a large translation group or whatever, but you clearly do not have that much knowledge or experience by your own admission. A year is a very short amount of time and, let me tell you, anyone can translate for fangroups. It's really not the status symbol you seem to think it is. I have been reading manga and books in Japanese for over a decade. My first Japanese lesson was about 16 years ago. I'm guessing that's not too much shorter than the time you've been on this Earth.

I also have no desire to get into a discord call with you. You might as well say "1v1 me in CS bro." Everything I have to say, I've said it here and I'm certain it would be a complete waste of time to voip. In the end, your only response is "well, I could make more points if I wanted to..." and yet I did. I have yet to see you do anything other than nitpick a handful of lines from chapter 1.

 

[phabrykMaester]

Ah, so Maeda is in her projection arc. Everything makes sense now.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Ah yes, "Communists", a demographic that VIZ media caters to and hires from exclusively, apparently

Yeah, I'm sure that that's why you wouldn't be hired and not any other reason.

Oh no, there are plenty of other reasons. But the big one here is that I'm not a Communist.

I'm sure you must realize that 目立ちません does not literally and only mean "to not stand out" right? That's just one interpretation of it... "I'll try not to make a scene" is a perfectly fine colloquial way to say the same thing in english.

We're talking about 目立ちませんように not 目立ちません. That said, 目立つ is the term for standing out, or otherwise being conspicuous. You're thinking of phrases like 騒ぎを起こす, or 目立つ行動をする, which would much more closely align with that translation.
\
On top of the fact that she didn't say that in the first place, the line doesn't even make sense in English. "Making a Scene" carries a deliberate, and negative connotation. When I say you're "Making a scene", I'm saying you're doing something negative that draws attention, like shouting at the top of your lungs, or fighting someone. Merely existing wouldn't constitute "Making a scene", no matter how much attention you get.

And I like how you are completely, again, avoiding talking about my second point in which she completely shuts down the guy in literally the next panel

Sorry, I got distracted after you made up a line in page 19. But yeah, he was SUPER rude there. After hoping she's not noticed, and pleading with them not to look, the rude guy was told not to talk to her like that. That's about the single least meek thing she's done up until this point. And if you look closely, she's not exactly comfortable doing that.

Now if you could stop ignoring my question, I'd appreciate it too:

”よし!　顔もいい頃合いだ. 次始めるぞ as "Alright, it's a good time for your face. Let's start the next one"

Is that, or is that not, how you'd translate the line?

The case in point is that if she was truly meek, she wouldn't have gone to class to begin with. She had every chance to back out, but she didn't.

Brother, it's Japan. Kids going to school is a social duty. It's just something she has to do, unless she's going Hikkikomori and shedding all of her social responsibilities outright. Did you not pick up on the fact that the Japanese place a major emphasis on rule of law, order, responsibility, and politeness?

The only thing that could be considered meek about her is that she doesn't particularly like to be the center of attention... but that's pretty normal for most people.

You're rather missing the point because you want to be "right". Everyone is clear that she doesn't like being the center of attention. The difference being made is her attitude in the situation. RawRi can only passively hope to blend in, pleads with the crowd when they look at her, and reluctantly accepta her new situation. ReRi exhibits a an internal locus of control. She believes her standing out is something that's within her control, and feels she can demand, not ask, people to leave her alone. ReRi's exchange with mother isn't one of reluctant acceptance, but a snarky exchange.
\
RawRi doesn't have the force of character that ReRi does, so when someone walks up to her and says she doesn't care, it's kind of true. The big point, and you're really not paying attention to it, is that ReRi is an Active Character; she decides she's not going to stand out. She tells everyone to stop looking. Even the word choice of "Quit it" steers us away from a meek character, since telling someone to "quit it" is both an order, and quite a rude one at that. RawRi is a passive character; She hopes not to stand out, and pleads with the crowd not to look. When mom tells her she's got horns on her head, all she can manage is reluctant agreement.

And what does she immediately do? Lays around for a couple days, but then goes out and teaches herself how to control it.

Don't forget that she burned her mouth and throat. That's not "laying around for a couple of days", that's "Recovering from burns for a couple of days". She'd have been out longer if she hadn't healed.

You know who wasn't shocked? Her best friend who has known her for years. She literally says herself that Ruri was the one who approached her to be friends. Even in the conversation with maeda you can tell Ruri isn't meek at all. She immediately defends yuka and casually admonishes Maeda for her poor table manners of looking at her phone. That isn't the attitude of the meek. She starts the conversation on her terms, directs the conversation, and then ends the conversation as she wants. I mean how could you possibly read that exchange and not realize that Ruri is in full control?

Right, so the one chapter she decides to talk to people, after realizing it's contributed to someone disliking her, she behaves like a relatively normal, if socially awkward, person.

Kid, you've been translating for a year. I literally lived and worked in Japan for longer than that.

Maybe ask some of your co-workers for some pointers then, because you've clearly been coasting on their politeness.

I get that you're proud of your status as a fan translator for a large translation group or whatever, but you clearly do not have that much knowledge or experience by your own admission.

By my own admission? I recall telling someone I started learning back in 2007. I guess it wasn't you. Or it was, and you forgot. I remember telling you I have trouble with is reading Japanese, since most of my time was spent learning how it was spoken (On account of my learning through anime, old translator notes, and some basic grammar lessons). Reading, on the other hand, I never really got around to learning. I started translating last February barely knowing Hiragana, almost no knowledge of Katakana, and a handful of Kanji (If even).

Now if you do the math, that's about 17 years of Japanese, give or take. Which isn't too far from the figure you gave me for yourself, but keep this in mind:

A) I'm smarter than almost everyone (Clinically tested!).
B) I have WAY more free time than everyone.

So yeah, I say I've been translating for over a year, but that just sounds nicer than "I haven't needed subs in nearly a decade".

I also have no desire to get into a discord call with you. Y

Sounds fine by me. But don't then complain that I didn't do the chapter word for word. That's too much work for someone so disinterested in what I have to say.

 

[YamiryuuZero]

Translating 目立ちませんように as I hope I don't stand out makes no sense here.

What the hell are you talking about? 目立ちませんように is a pray to not go noticed!

目立つ = "to stand out."
目立ちます = formal form of 目立つ.
目立ちません = formal negative form of 目立つ.
ように =

Expressions (phrases, clauses, etc.)
2. hoping or wishing for somethingUsually written using kana alone

• 夢
• が
• すべて
• 叶います
• ように
• 。

May all my dreams come true.

(From jisho.org)
​

Why are you saying translating 目立ちませんように as "I hope I don't stand out" makes no sense when that's the literal translation of the sentence!?

 

[dy4y]

Why are you saying translating 目立ちませんように as "I hope I don't stand out" makes no sense when that's the literal translation of the sentence!?

A sentence can mean different things depending on this strange phenomenon called "context"

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

A sentence can mean different things depending on this strange phenomenon called "context"

"Context" isn't a magic bullet that makes every rando's translation right. We know the context, and we know the expression.

What the hell are you talking about? 目立ちませんように is a pray to not go noticed!

目立つ = "to stand out."
目立ちます = formal form of 目立つ.
目立ちません = formal negative form of 目立つ.
ように =

(From jisho.org)
​

Why are you saying translating 目立ちませんように as "I hope I don't stand out" makes no sense when that's the literal translation of the sentence!?

This is probably the point where he tells us that since it might translate to "So that I don't stand out", we're totally wrong about the sentence, and that she was totally thinking up a plan not to make a scene.


Ooh, or maybe he tells us the dictionary is wrong!

 

[YamiryuuZero]

A sentence can mean different things depending on this strange phenomenon called "context"

The only different things that could be open to interpretation here is WHAT she is wishing to go unnoticed, since in Japanese you do not need to specify a subject to make a proper sentence.

The line 目立ちませんように by itself could mean that the person speaking doesn't want to go noticed, or that they wish for something other than the speaker to go unnoticed, and context is important to understand WHAT the subject is.

But it doesn't matter what the speaker intends to go unnoticed, the sentence 目立ちませんように means the speaker wishes for something to go unnoticed!

anf said

I'm sure you must realize that 目立ちません does not literally and only mean "to not stand out" right? That's just one interpretation of it... "I'll try not to make a scene" is a perfectly fine colloquial way to say the same thing in english.

And that is simply factually wrong!
If the sentence were to be translated to "I'll try not to make a scene" and be correct, the sentence would have to be completely different, namely じたばたしないように気を付ける
じたばた = "to make a scene"
しない = negative form of する (to do)
ように =

1. in order to (e.g. meet goal); so that; take care (so as)Usually written using kana alone

• 彼
• は
• 子供たち
• に
• そんな
• に
• さわがない
• ように
• と
• い言った
• 。

He told his children not to make so much noise.

(From jisho.org)​

気を付ける = to watch out, to be careful, to pay attention

Now here's an example of context being important. Both 目立ちませんように and じたばたしないように気を付ける use the term ように, but the meaning is different between them. THIS is a case where context changes the way words are interpreted, with the first being a prayer or a plea due to your lack of agency, while the latter explicit states agency on the part of the speaker.

"I'll try not to make a scene" is not an acceptable translation of 目立ちませんように, because that sentence would translate to じたばたしないように気を付ける if translated from English to Japanese!

 

[Geardofwario]

hmm I kind of like the relationship they’re having now.
Also Kashiro definitely got it the worst lmfaoo

 

[kyrex]

I feel like the writing wasn't exactly... honest enough? Maeda's just making shit up to be angry about and she doesn't get called on it. Like she just implies that Ruri and her friends are talking shit about everyone else behind their backs, and it's not pointed out that they aren't and haven't done that at all, and also that Maeda would have no way of knowing otherwise. Even this whole "you don't care about other people" shtick that she finally dropped came out of nowhere. She doesn't interact with Ruri at all until Maeda started shit with her, and then gets defensive and standoffish when Ruri wants to know what the fuck her problem is... and it amounts to Maeda being pissed off at her over a thing she made up as a reason to justify treating someone else like shit.

 

[eviljackspicer]

Seriously, Ruri didn't realize she had slits for pupils?

 

[residentFATBOY]

Random MangaDex commenter try not to make a complete ass of themselves challenge:

Kid, you've been translating for a year.

I get that you're proud of your status as a fan translator for a large translation group or whatever

I'm guessing that's not too much shorter than the time you've been on this Earth.

You might as well say "1v1 me in CS bro." Everything I have to say, I've said it here and I'm certain it would be a complete waste of time to voip. In the end, your only response is "well, I could make more points if I wanted to..." and yet I did.

Kid, I get that you lived in Japan for a little while, or whatever, but an ad hominem is not an argument, and when I say "or whatever," it is explicitly in an attempt to undermine your credentials and ultimately your knowledge and understanding of the language while simultaneously bolstering my own. I know how superior I am to you because I've probably been on this Earth for a longer duration of time, and everyone knows that bigger number equals better person. Cool arguments and all, but unfortunately for you, I'm going to liken what you said to the squeals of a child on Xbox Live. Checkmate, bet you didn't see that one coming. It would be a complete waste of my time to get off this publicly viewable forum where I engagement farm for Internet good boy points and have an actual, meaningful discussion about the intricacies of the topic I continue to involve myself with by responding to the same person for the last 2 chapters as opposed to simply ending my comment in a conclusive, climactic style by saying something epic, italicized, and maybe even bold this time for emphasis like... and yet I did. Shit, actually, that sounded cooler in my head.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Random MangaDex commenter try not to make a complete ass of themselves challenge:

Level: Impossible

Kid, I get that you lived in Japan for a little while, or whatever, but an ad hominem is not an argument, and when I say "or whatever," it is explicitly in an attempt to undermine your credentials and ultimately your knowledge and understanding of the language while simultaneously bolstering my own. I know how superior I am to you because I've probably been on this Earth for a longer duration of time, and everyone knows that bigger number equals better person. Cool arguments and all, but unfortunately for you, I'm going to liken what you said to the squeals of a child on Xbox Live. Checkmate, bet you didn't see that one coming. It would be a complete waste of my time to get off this publicly viewable forum where I engagement farm for Internet good boy points and have an actual, meaningful discussion about the intricacies of the topic I continue to involve myself with by responding to the same person for the last 2 chapters as opposed to simply ending my comment in a conclusive, climactic style by saying something epic, italicized, and maybe even bold this time for emphasis like... and yet I did. Shit, actually, that sounded cooler in my head.

I actually thought this was you just making fun of him by being snarky. But then I thought about it, and realized this is actually a clever, satirical post! The only thing missing is pointing out the fact that he complained I didn't go line by line for him, got the chance to do just that in a call, turned it down, then immediately complained again that I didn't!

 

[itchytude]

Between the snappy insults and the insightful clarifications, this thread is way more intersting than the actual chapter was.

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

Between the snappy insults and the insightful clarifications, this thread is way more intersting than the actual chapter was.

Real question is what you think the "insightful clarifications" were.

 

[TentacleUser]

I like the faces Maeda makes. Funny that her earrings make a set with Kashiro's. Kashiro has 2 piercings in her right ear, none ever shown on her left, while Maeda has 2 matching ones one her left ear.

 

[KoetekishiYui]

Comments section is more entertaining than the chapter this week.

 

[immy]

I don't think localizations goes far enough. We should also have localized names like with translated european and american comics (and some older animanga that got published in west) I used to read/watch growing up

 

[BuyVelomobiles]

I don't think localizations goes far enough. We should also have localized names like with translated european and american comics (and some older animanga that got published in west) I used to read/watch growing up

@anf approved localizations.

 

[Elmithian]

I still think Maeda is an arse, but this was some good characterisation for her, and for Ruri.

You can always try to improve the faults in yer personality, and hopefully Maeda does that. Still, it is going to have to be a lot of work for me as a reader to ever remotely like her though.

 

[Squall_Leonhart]

someone please ban mangaplus from the dex, 2 days old update and already 404'd.