Ryuu to Ayumu Nariagari Boukensha-dou ~Youzumi toshite S-Rank Party kara Tsuihou Sareta Kaifuku Majutsushi, Suterareta Saki de Saikyou no Shinryuu o …

[HawkGoggles]

It's like you can't read sufficiently. Did I criticize you for quoting me? No, I criticized you for quoting what I said and then making a response that ignores what you quoted me saying.


...no, I talked about the reality of hypocrisies and complexities inherent to the moral code of any individual, and then I generally explained how this highlight was relevant to how the ancients perceived the institution of slavery across cultures in history. My exact point is that there's nothing that's been established in this setting-- like a dominant religion that insists on the ontological equality of all human beings-- to prompt the cognitive dissonance that serves as the premise of any moral noticing that we're familiar with. Again: the non-slave ancients obviously knew slavery was something they personally wouldn't enjoy, and that by itself didn't stop the institution because their cultures accommodated the institution by whatever philosophical means (such as, an idea of a divine order that classifies slaves as a cosmic class). They also could still conceive of a concept of "righteous living", "virtue", "love", and whatever else.


But you're not the only person reading this. You're not even part of the primary audience-- and I don't mean "the primary audience is Japanese otaku", but specifically "Japanese otaku that are into fantasy stories with the kind of setup this one has". The one that at least takes it as a given that a scenario like this is bound to occur, as some twist on the "save the cat(girl)" event. The one that probably does take this as "the usual for the setting", and takes note of the fact that the slaver is presented and treated by other characters in a derisive manner.

Again, your argument-- and your insistence on applying foreign standards-- would be more apropos if we were talking about an isekai protagonist.

Your first comment in this forum is YOU quoting ME. You criticizing me even. Can YOU read? Big words don't make you sound smarter. Because if you could read, you wouldn't have to type half of much as you do because I clearly address points you choose to ignore and drone on about.

The fact that you think any of these web novel writers are taking slavery as seriously as you're trying to explain it shows how disingenuous and deluded you are in the first place for this subject. I don't need Dion to participate in slavery to normalize, he could look over at and one and go "aw, that must suck" and not do anything about it. But he does, so that says something about him, but I doubt that it will every be brought up or internalized so why is it here?

"I'm not part of the primary audience" what does that mean? We're not talking about base fantasy, or period pieces, we're talking about SLAVERY. So is this now a story for people who are interested in slavery, because I doubt anyone with a genuine interest in that matter will get much out of this cookie cutter power fantasy story. This isn't set up, were almost 40 chapters in and they just want a maid. So if that's all laid out, I guess this story is for people that like slavery or at least this part is. That's a dumb insinuation.

But you're right about one thing, this is most likely the thoughtless use of a trope. "Other people put slavery in their fantasy stories so I'll do it too" That's most likely where this starts and ends and that's the problem. You're so busy arguing about the narrative use of slavery when most people know that's a load of shit. Calling about people "virtue signaling" when they are analyzing the actual text being written more than you are. Because most people don't have a problem with slavery existing in their text. They think that its weird that Dion after almost 40 chapters and 4 years of being the soft boy that he is, would be on the side of Slavery, normalized or not.

 

[DrarRV]

What the heck with all this fuss here, this chapter simply beautiful and touching. There must be a reason why he can release her enslavement after the purchase. About how he able to heal the curse, he just guess the right root cause for it.

 

[Eighty-six]

Mental maturity is a process that involves both life experiences and biological processes controlled by hormones.

Yes, for human beings.

There are various brain development phases that occur during puberty and don't complete until young adult.

Yes, for human beings-- elves in this setting apparently digivolve when they become 30.

A species that matures slower is not inherently disabled and is wrong to think of it as such.

It's perfectly reasonable to think of it that way if they're a sapient life form that can live in human society and operate as humans do, and yet may not be normatively able to behave as any able-bodied human being of 26 years despite themselves having lived 26 years.

It's honestly surprising that this manga is maintaining as high of a rating as it is.

...the broader sentiment from the start of this scanlation was that the story is middling but the art is amazing.

 

[Azurekyte]

I was really pleasantly suprised to see the amount of pushback against this trope in this chapter. Usually I only see one or two, but it feels like 80% of the comments are about how much distasteful this trope is in manga (and the fact that "slavery in isekai" is a trope to begin with, is......Yeah...)
GJ ya'll.
Personally, though, this shit is so common that I can just mentally ignore it, because I do enjoy other shit about the manga overall.....As long as the author is not completely braindead, and does not dead-centers on slavery as a plot thread, and focuses on how bad and grueling it is as a system <_<

I'm always shocked when people make these sort of comments.
Not because of the devil's advocate for slvery, but the sheer audacity of saying: "Nobody cares what you say in a comments section", while writing a comment in a comments section.
Why even bother writing any of that, then? That's remarkable cognitive dissonance.


Like, again with guys like this.
1. People write their opinions in a comments (opinion) section, this is not a crazy thing to do.
2. The problem here isn't that "the MC is being a good boy and acts to better a slave's life", it's that the author chose to insert slavery into their story to begin with.
2.1. also, the MC is not an activist. He does not go around buying slaves just to free them. That's false equivalency and you know it.

What were you guys even trying to fight here? Trying to be edge lords by going against the grain, when you see that most people here got sick and tired from seeing SLAVERY featured in our "feel good" (big quotes) isekai escapism story? Like, really, god forbid...
I shouldn't even engage with any of you on this, I just got such a whiplash from it.

P.S: and just to make a point, from a literary point of view, it'd feel a lot better if the MC happened to find a homeless girl, and arbitrarily chose to help her.
Are there plenty of orphans and hungry kids in their world? Yes, of course. Is helping just one not really solving the issue? Obviously, of course.
But the point here is not the moral grandstanding of the MC and his ability to systemtically play the role of jesus christ or mother teresa. It's doing what he can do, with things that are within his reach.
It's a much more "feel good" moment, with signfinically less problematic elements, to help a "cursed homeless girl", than to insert slavery into a story, just for the sake of having a convenient "feel good moment" and "covenient character" that's easy to insert.

Like I said in my comment.. good job for having an opinion. Y'wanna know something? Even if no one cares you can still have an opinion, which is what I have and everyone else here. Just like everyone else is gonna slap their keyboards with the copy-pasted 'SLAVERY BAD! BAD AUTHOR! BAD TROPE!' regardless of what anyone says, myself included, I can post if I want to too. If you're so hung up on it why even respond to my comment in the first place?

Legit, it's just a tired and common trope and the sheer amount of bitching I've seen across comment sections in manga is almost all copy-pasted rants, no real difference across any of them. If you hate the trope just stop reading it. If enough people drop the manga then there's a good chance that fewer groups will want to translate and then bam, your problematic read is gone.

The worst part about all this is the people who immediately jump to the "Why do you like slavery so much?" 'gotcha' when someone is trying to explain a characters viewpoint in the manga. This, if I remember right, isn't an isekai, so there's no 'enlightened' MC from our world who knows better. This dude grew up in the world from day one and that sorta stuff is more or less normal for him, though he wasn't exactly comfortable going leading into the actual acquisition of the elf.

Also, I see you mentioned 'devils advocate' in regards to my comment. You can think what you want, since folks on here seem to be incapable of believing anything that doesn't come out of their own mouths, but I don't care because it's such a tired, cop-out trope. There's no point in being surprised, it was more of a 'well, it was gonna end up in here eventually' sort of thing. MC was abandoned by his party, MC ended up in a much less balanced party, MC is not originally a combat oriented adventurer.. it's more surprising that it took this long for it to come up in the story.

I bet the majority of people bitching about the trope will come back when the next chapter drops. I think it's just bitching for online brownie points.

 

[Eighty-six]

Your first comment in this forum is YOU quoting ME. You criticizing me even. Can YOU read?

What the hell does that have to do with anything? I'm not arguing about quoting you. Did you read me asking you if I criticized you FOR quoting me? Not if I quoted you. Not if I criticized you. No, if I criticized you FOR quoting me. No.

I'm saying that you quoted something I said and then gave a response to it that didn't. Engage. With what. You quoted. Me saying.

That's my criticism of you. You quoted me talking about the cruelty of slavery and gave a snide remark about me liking slavery when all I was doing was getting into the complexity of the topic while still acknowledging its evil in that comment and in others.

Turn off your Caps Lock, stop inflicting me with your insecurity about my diction as though you graduated high school after COVID, and-- for your sake-- consider ceasing to insult me if you can't do both that and pay attention to a conversation you choose to continue.

The fact that you think any of these web novel writers are taking slavery as seriously as you're trying to explain it shows how disingenuous and deluded you are in the first place for this subject.

I suspect that you think that I think that the author is treating the subject seriously because I spent a lot of keystrokes discussing the matter of perspectives on the institution, and you'd be wrong. The author, more than likely only went "medieval societies sometimes had slavery, so I'll facilitate my writing goals (introducing a new character, making my MC look cool) through the inclusion of slavery in my pseudo-medieval setting". There are moral implications to slavery existing in societies as an established institution in real life, and normally, you can expect much of the same implications when you have a setting styled off of notions of said medieval societies. The former is what I primarily discussed, because of its relevance to the latter.

The author doesn't need to think deeply about that, for those implications to be there, because the aforementioned moral implications are "bundled" in with the existence of slavery as an institution in the medieval societies the author patterns his setting after.

Lastly, a quibble: how can someone be "disingenuous" and "deluded"? Delusion requires the lack of the awareness that disingenuousness requires.

"I'm not part of the primary audience" what does that mean?

You would know if you read anything after that statement that directly explains that statement, instead of kvetching about my verbiage or verbosity.

Calling about people "virtue signaling" when they are analyzing the actual text being written more than you are.

My argument is that they mostly aren't. They (and you) produced a caricature of Dion that doesn't factor that it would be expected for him to be a product of his society, and that his morality is more than likely going to exist within the established moral continuum of his society. They (you, I'm not as sure) are so invested in their own notion of morality, that they projected that into an intentionally foreign setting instead of engaging with what the setting demonstrates of itself, and without referencing the social and moral dynamics of past societies with institutions of slavery for context.

Further, they've never properly thought about the institution of slavery, chattel or otherwise, such that they don't even recognize what manumission is even though it's brought up in this chapter, and what the implications of worldbuilding are on the setting (i.e. slaves are a class unto themselves with diminished rights and there is a process for changing their class as to set them free, so you can't just let them loose and call that their emancipation-- as some suggested) or the myriad reasons why it could be harmful, in this context, for Dion to just immediately let loose a marked slave with no real labor skills-- basic considerations, frankly. Your contention is that you wouldn't have your "good guy" characters engage with slavery in a setting, but there are various approaches in this conversation that I originally summarily criticized that are fundamentally outgrowths out of an outrage that the protagonist engages in slavery. And we can talk about the presumed intentionality of the writer in this regard, but it comes off as you using that presumption to justify not properly engaging with the matter as presented in-story.

There was someone that was aware enough to argue that this was inconsistent for Dion because he was a slave once and should have been able to empathize with the slaves... but he wasn't a slave, actually, and either way, his buying a slave (wouldn't have mattered which one) dramatically elevated their life quality and granted them eventual emancipation by his hands. Inarguable things that color his decision to buy a slave just as much his trying to save money, as a person born in that world.

That's part of the reason I made the callout-- whether it's you criticizing Dion for buying a slave, or other people criticizing him for not immediately freeing the slave, or still others criticizing the trope existing in the manga at all, the way that people contextualize the matter is wonky and encumbered by unnecessary moral posturing (most, if not all people here already agree that slavery is evil) that hinders grappling with the actually presented moral continuum of the setting and even some of the explicit worldbuilding.

...the other part of the reason is that the kvetching is just annoying, at this point.

 

[Azurekyte]

Your first comment in this forum is YOU quoting ME. You criticizing me even. Can YOU read? Big words don't make you sound smarter. Because if you could read, you wouldn't have to type half of much as you do because I clearly address points you choose to ignore and drone on about.

The fact that you think any of these web novel writers are taking slavery as seriously as you're trying to explain it shows how disingenuous and deluded you are in the first place for this subject. I don't need Dion to participate in slavery to normalize, he could look over at and one and go "aw, that must suck" and not do anything about it. But he does, so that says something about him, but I doubt that it will every be brought up or internalized so why is it here?

"I'm not part of the primary audience" what does that mean? We're not talking about base fantasy, or period pieces, we're talking about SLAVERY. So is this now a story for people who are interested in slavery, because I doubt anyone with a genuine interest in that matter will get much out of this cookie cutter power fantasy story. This isn't set up, were almost 40 chapters in and they just want a maid. So if that's all laid out, I guess this story is for people that like slavery or at least this part is. That's a dumb insinuation.

But you're right about one thing, this is most likely the thoughtless use of a trope. "Other people put slavery in their fantasy stories so I'll do it too" That's most likely where this starts and ends and that's the problem. You're so busy arguing about the narrative use of slavery when most people know that's a load of shit. Calling about people "virtue signaling" when they are analyzing the actual text being written more than you are. Because most people don't have a problem with slavery existing in their text. They think that its weird that Dion after almost 40 chapters and 4 years of being the soft boy that he is, would be on the side of Slavery, normalized or not.

Genuinely, this one is on you big dog. You're the one who dropped the 'why do you like slavery' comment on a dude who was arguing against slavery. Maybe go back and read, you're making yourself look like a lemming.

 

[HawkGoggles]

...the other part of the reason is that the kvetching is just annoying, at this point.

And there it is. For all of your writing that's the truth of it all. You're annoying.

Genuinely, this one is on you big dog. You're the one who dropped the 'why do you like slavery' comment on a dude who was arguing against slavery. Maybe go back and read, you're making yourself look like a lemming.

I'm not going to let myself get gaslighted by idiots who can quote my own points and only want to tare me down over their annoyance of people who hate the poor depiction and propping up of slavery in their media. You're weird. If you can't see why people think Dion participating in slaver is icky, you aren't reading the actual story and care more about slavery than the actual text. That's weird. We all accpet that this is fiction and it doesn't have to be written this way but also accept that if it is there might be a ponit. However most of us in the comments also know who slavery is normally depicted in these stories so ick being thier first emotion is normal. And as you read through the chapter that feeling gets confirmed. If you can't see that, you're weird.

 

[Azurekyte]

Why do you guys like slavery so much? No on hates the idea of it being explored in a story, people just hate the fact that most of these protagonist that you're supposed to think are good and just would participate in it. It'd be one thing if were were fallowing an asshole protag but we're not. DION, who did not try to kill the people that actively tired murder him, went out and bought a slave. That says something. Its says that this story is virtue signaling harder than these comments are because the writer doesn't believe in any of the shit he's writing.

Hey man, I went back and read the comments and this is quite literally the second post you made.. and it's you saying a guy that's arguing against slavery likes slavery.
No one here is arguing for slavery, as much as you might think they are they aren't. More than anything we're tired of this basic trope, but we're also annoyed seeing the same stuff copy pasted without much thought. Maybe look a little closer?

 

[Eighty-six]

And there it is. For all of your writing that's the truth of it all. You're annoying.

This is laughable. I explained to you several reasons and you choose the one you think is most convenient, trying to poetically twist what I said in an unfunctional way.

I'm not going to let myself get gaslighted by idiots

He's referencing something you said, that I responded to, that has retained full relevance even to now only because you inexplicably remained confused and belligerent about my exact criticism of you quoting me.

If you can't see why people think Dion participating in slaver is icky

How is it that you can write so much and so basically coherently, and still be so incapable of reading comprehension? Despite this conversation lasting hours?

It's obvious that I know why people think Dion participating in slavery is icky. It's obvious that I'm of the mind that slavery is wrong. It's also obvious, not least of all through my previous comment to you and my first, that my contention was not with the voicing of that but with the ostentatious moral posturing beyond "I don't like that" made by people who don't properly engage with the topic for what it is past its intrinsic evil, the notion of moral continuums being significantly regional, or the story's own worldbuilding.

 

[HawkGoggles]

but we're also annoyed seeing the same stuff copy pasted without much thought. Maybe look a little closer?

with the ostentatious moral posturing beyond "I don't like that" made by people who don't properly engage with the topic for what it is past its intrinsic evil, the notion of moral continuums being significantly regional, or the story's own worldbuilding.

But why is that annoying? What makes you bothered by people showing basic human decency and them expecting that from a protagonist that has gone beyond that basic human decency this whole manga so far? You've only argued from a side of giving excuses for this poor use of slavery instead of actually interacting with this text that has gone on for almost 40 chapters and 4 years without even hinting at slavery.

You guys can think slavery is wrong but when most of your comments are being annoyed at people who also think its wrong or saying they don't understand it well enough; it sounds like you like slavery. It sounds like you don't understand the social stigma of slavery and you're just making excuses for it.

 

[Azurekyte]

But why is that annoying? What makes you bothered by people showing basic human decency and them expecting that from a protagonist that has gone beyond that basic human decency this whole manga so far? You've only argued from a side of giving excuses for this poor use of slavery instead of actually interacting with this text that has gone on for almost 40 chapters and 4 years without even hinting at slavery.

You guys can think slavery is wrong but when most of your comments are being annoyed at people who also think its wrong or saying they don't understand it well enough; it sounds like you like slavery. It sounds like you don't understand the social stigma of slavery and you're just making excuses for it.

It's annoying because it never goes beyond a surface level 'slavery bad' and no one ever wants to discuss past 'slavery bad.' It's like everyone is posting the same thing on almost every piece of content that involves slavery for the exclusive point of farming internet brownie points.

We know it's bad, we know it's wrong, but roughly the same word-for-word posts are being rapid fire uploaded with no nuance or actual intent of delving into a deeper discussion. Drop it if want, but when your only contribution is that you're saying you're dropping it, or some poorly cropped meme then what are you really doing?

It also doesn't help that people like to go spitfire and immediately start shit-flinging arguments by assuming that anyone who doesn't spit out those same two words everyone is parroting absolutely loves and pushes for slavery.

In short, because people don't like to read that's the problem. You understand?

 

[HawkGoggles]

It's annoying because it never goes beyond a surface level 'slavery bad' and no one ever wants to discuss past 'slavery bad.' It's like everyone is posting the same thing on almost every piece of content that involves slavery for the exclusive point of farming internet brownie points.

We know it's bad, we know it's wrong, but roughly the same word-for-word posts are being rapid fire uploaded with no nuance or actual intent of delving into a deeper discussion. Drop it if want, but when your only contribution is that you're saying you're dropping it, or some poorly cropped meme then what are you really doing?

It also doesn't help that people like to go spitfire and immediately start shit-flinging arguments by assuming that anyone who doesn't spit out those same two words everyone is parroting absolutely loves and pushes for slavery.

In short, because people don't like to read that's the problem. You understand?

First off, people hardly reads comments in any forum. Even in forums where people are looking for answers to a question. You'll get the same question asked even if it was answered on page 2. When the forum is designed to be able to comment on the first page, those other pages might as well not matter to most.

Second for a conversation to go beyond "slavery is bad" the text would have to put in more work than "slavery is here just because" People aren't gong to put in more work than the work that is given to them.

So then the point of discussion would be to talk about the trend of slavery in manga. That would lead to talking about how the public at large views slavery. And that's too real and political for people to genuinely engage with because the idea of the real world problems and problematic ideas is too much for someone just looking for escapism media. And then it just comes back to, "i don't like seeing this."

But to engage with those real world ideas and the real people in this forum. I'm sure most of them don't mind the idea and depiction of slavery. What they truly care about is the expression. And the expression in this work lacks self awareness that people can easily express with "why is there always slavery?" ad nauseam. This story isn't "Slave Master: King of Slaves" Its Dragon healer. If there was ever a time for people to go "aw gross they put slavery in it" this is the time.

 

[Azurekyte]

First off, people hardly reads comments in any forum. Even in forums where people are looking for answers to a question. You'll get the same question asked even if it was answered on page 2. When the forum is designed to be able to comment on the first page, those other pages might as well not matter to most.

Second for a conversation to go beyond "slavery is bad" the text would have to put in more work than "slavery is here just because" People aren't gong to put in more work than the work that is given to them.

So then the point of discussion would be to talk about the trend of slavery in manga. That would lead to talking about how the public at large views slavery. And that's too real and political for people to genuinely engage with because the idea of the real world problems and problematic ideas is too much for someone just looking for escapism media. And then it just comes back to, "i don't like seeing this."

But to engage with those real world ideas and the real people in this forum. I'm sure most of them don't mind the idea and depiction of slavery. What they truly care about is the expression. And the expression in this work lacks self awareness that people can easily express with "why is there always slavery?" ad nauseam. This story isn't "Slave Master: King of Slaves" Its Dragon healer. If there was ever a time for people to go "aw gross they put slavery in it" this is the time.

I love how you don't intend on apologizing for, on two occasions, assuming and telling people that they love and promote slavery so much when they're obviously against slavery. Kudos on digging your heels in, it's really telling about how slander is nowadays. Maybe apologize for insinuating such a thing.. I'd appreciate it, I'd also be much more willing to throw you a bone too, but you're not making it easy.

Also, I dunno about you, but forums are sorta what the culture the internet is built on. Maybe you're a kid, but forums are the backbone of many many many different interests and hobbies. I don't think you're correct in saying 'people hardly read the comments in any forum.'

I don't think that it's entirely the texts duty to put in all the work for anything to lead to conversation.. if that's happening then there's no conversation happening, it's all the author talking for us.

You did a good job making it political by telling us that we love slavery so much, so I dunno why you're saying it'd be too real and too political. Discussion doesn't always lead to everyone being happy and comfortable, you have to be willing to talk about the hard stuff to learn.

I dunno what to tell you chief. Seems to me like you're trying to avoid diving deeper than fingertip deep into any sort of meaningful discussion. I've said it's a tired trope, others have asked why this trope, it's a lazy cop-out, but like.. you could be helpful and offer suggestions for other manga that don't follow that trope, or even theorycraft other avenues the author could've taken instead of trying to bite the head off of people in a confused fury. Discussion, even if it's involving slavery, can include more than just people arguing. Sometimes it's fun to talk about the what-ifs, so maybe talk about 'what if the author took this route instead of taking the MC to the slave market.'

I do agree with whoever it was earlier that was talking about us being 40 chapters in with zero mention or hint of this til now, it's way out of left field. Shield hero was upfront from the beginning, but this had zero buildup or indication that the author would introduce it.

 

[Eighty-six]

But why is that annoying? What makes you bothered by people showing basic human decency

Apart from the fact that-- in the context of a discussion of a work of otherworld medieval fantasy fiction-- their moral peacocking* is ostentatious and directed towards people that already agree with them, and is meant to establish themselves as "regular"/"good" people rather than make a point of substance?

It's lazy thinking that people try to present as being valuable. The notion of "basic human decency" refers to some ethical code that the users of the term speak of as though it's transcendent and substantially all-ruling, but is leveraged by people who don't believe in the transcendent to begin with. "Basic human decency" for these people only amounts to an alias for their specific moral code, inspired by personal opinions and parcels of ethical codes they don't fully register, that have no reason within themselves for why they would have to matter to other people-- especially if they can flout their moral standards with little to no consequences that they care about. The people that use this term are incapable of understanding that people that live in different contexts than they do, across time and space, have a different notion of morality. A different notion of "basic human decency". "Good" and "evil" (and "weird", since you compulsively used that term) end up being nothing more than social designations, even though in the hearts of these people, they believe them to be so much more and so much more universally relevant. And when there's no way to exert social force through those words, they're only terms of aggrandizement and degradation. Completely useless, indicating no truth except your own personal opinion that you throw into the world and hope is sufficiently shared by enough people that happen to be around you.

The worst part about this, is that they should know about the relativity of moral standards across space and time. They've gone to school and studied history. They know slavery used to be more widespread and institutional. We're more aware than ever of different cultures and religions. All with differing ethical codes to be integrated in whichever ways into the moral sense of an individual. Ethical codes underpinned by various other premises.

Their peacocking furthermore hinders more meaningful or interesting discussion like assessing the perspective of people (especially fictional, in this case) who are deliberately written to have different moral notions, for the sake of what's essentially an exercise in narcissism.

I've said this either in this discussion or that for the previous chapter, but I believe that slavery is "evil" because there's nothing that could be intrinsic to a human being that would give them the right to own, buy or sell other human beings (who are necessarily ontologically equal to him) as though they were chattel. It's a delusion entrenched in our civilizations, downstream from a delusion that humans are not ontologically equal. But I can't force you to agree with or value that. I can't force you to agree with my premises. I can't force you to value the reasons I say that these things matter, even though I assert that they do and will more obviously matter in an objective way.

 

[HawkGoggles]

I dunno what to tell you chief. Seems to me like you're trying to avoid diving deeper than fingertip deep into any sort of meaningful discussion. I've said it's a tired trope, others have asked why this trope, it's a lazy cop-out, but like.. you could be helpful and offer suggestions for other manga that don't follow that trope, or even theorycraft other avenues the author could've taken instead of trying to bite the head off of people in a confused fury. Discussion, even if it's involving slavery, can include more than just people arguing. Sometimes it's fun to talk about the what-ifs, so maybe talk about 'what if the author took this route instead of taking the MC to the slave market.'

I do agree with whoever it was earlier that was talking about us being 40 chapters in with zero mention or hint of this til now, it's way out of left field. Shield hero was upfront from the beginning, but this had zero buildup or indication that the author would introduce it.

I guess I'm sorry that I said that you like slavery. but the two of your are some the first people in this forum to actively voice your annoyance at other people's opinions that you both apparently agree with. You aren't reading what I'm saying because your last line is in reference to ME. I've given plenty of ways for this story to engage with slavery without having our MC buy a slave but I guess your feelings are too hurt to read. That that's to the both of you.

Their peacocking furthermore hinders more meaningful or interesting discussion like assessing the perspective of people (especially fictional, in this case) who are deliberately written to have different moral notions, for the sake of what's essentially an exercise in narcissism.

But it doesn't matter if they're just saying it or not. You could easily spring board off what they're saying to dig deeper without call them basic. It just makes you look bad. You may know that its wrong to own and sell another person. you may know the mechanisms in which the world does such a thing. But neither of you understands how that actually effects others. How to talk about that with others. How others view and express those thoughts. So until you do, the only thing you'll be able to do is list off facts without the understanding to express them in a way that will get others to listen and have those deeper conversations.

 

[Azurekyte]

I guess I'm sorry that I said that you like slavery. but the two of your are some the first people in this forum to actively voice your annoyance at other people's opinions that you both apparently agree with. You aren't reading what I'm saying because your last line is in reference to ME. I've given plenty of ways for this story to engage with slavery without having our MC buy a slave but I guess your feelings are too hurt to read. That that's to the both of you.


But it doesn't matter if they're just saying it or not. You could easily spring board off what they're saying to dig deeper without call them basic. It just makes you look bad. You may know that its wrong to own and sell another person. you may know the mechanisms in which the world does such a thing. But neither of you understands how that actually effects others. How to talk about that with others. How others view and express those thoughts. So until you do, the only thing you'll be able to do is list off facts without the understanding to express them in a way that will get others to listen and have those deeper conversations.

You wanna know the truth? I only really read your second post and all the bitching after. I jumped in because you've done nothing but try to paint the other dude as a bad guy and you seem to refuse to concede on slandering someone.. 'I guess I'm sorry' isn't very sincere, you probably still think we're promoting slavery in the streets or some dumb stuff like that.

My feelings aren't hurt, I just don't care enough about your opinions due to the way you've been acting to give you the benefit of a doubt. The entire time you've been obviously mad, because there's been a lot of times so far that you've failed to read what anyone has said.

I've got nothing else to add. Legit, all me and the other dude want is actual conversation, not buzzwords and not a basic view that could fit on a piece of paper from a fortune cookie.

Perhaps I've been a bit rude and I apologize for that, but I give what I'm given, and you've not been an easy person to talk to. You can reply if you want, but I think you're too far gone to even think about what I or anyone else would say.

 

[HawkGoggles]

You wanna know the truth? I only really read your second post and all the bitching after. I jumped in because you've done nothing but try to paint the other dude as a bad guy and you seem to refuse to concede on slandering someone.. 'I guess I'm sorry' isn't very sincere, you probably still think we're promoting slavery in the streets or some dumb stuff like that.

My feelings aren't hurt, I just don't care enough about your opinions due to the way you've been acting to give you the benefit of a doubt. The entire time you've been obviously mad, because there's been a lot of times so far that you've failed to read what anyone has said.

I've got nothing else to add. Legit, all me and the other dude want is actual conversation, not buzzwords and not a basic view that could fit on a piece of paper from a fortune cookie.

Perhaps I've been a bit rude and I apologize for that, but I give what I'm given, and you've not been an easy person to talk to. You can reply if you want, but I think you're too far gone to even think about what I or anyone else would say.

I care what lots of people have to say here and most of them have interesting things to say. The only reason i replied at all was because I was replied to. And that first reply was on of condescension so of course I'd get a litter heated. But I've clearly been reading what you've two have been saying. Because if you have been clearly reading me, you would have known that the person you were referencing in your last reply was me.

You would have noticed the multiple times I talked about the way this story could haven introduced slavery without compromising our main character. About how I don't think it will ever get deeper and talk on points of how a person like Dion would willingly buy a slave, or it even matter much after wards. At most its probably just going to be used as a punishment for his old party mates.

Because to me and stated by both of you, you two care more about the way people react to slavery than how the text handles it and how people are reading that text. How people are engaging with this problematic trope that has seen so much overuse. If you want to talk about slavery that's great. But here in this forum of a power fantasy manga, it would prove much better to talk about today's expression of slavery in media. And that is much deeper than just explaining the mechanisms in which they work, witch is the only thing my man did.

 

[McGayveR80]

She literally said elves will rapidly mature physically at 30.

So in 4 years she'll physically grow older, unless the author has Dion pull another Deus ex Healing.

Though if you want to get really into it, even if she physically changes to an adult at 30, to elves she's still a child, but humans see her as an adult, and consider her as an adult since she would be 30 years old.

AT that point what do we do guys?
Take THE Harkness test...
And test would be failed at third(and the final) question.

 

[Eighty-six]

But it doesn't matter if they're just saying it or not. You could easily spring board off what they're saying to dig deeper without call them basic. It just makes you look bad. You may know that its wrong to own and sell another person. you may know the mechanisms in which the world does such a thing. But neither of you understands how that actually effects others. How to talk about that with others. How others view and express those thoughts. So until you do, the only thing you'll be able to do is list off facts without the understanding to express them in a way that will get others to listen and have those deeper conversations.

This is a banal condescension that borders on a muddle of words, that's groping for a reason to still paint me in the wrong, after you repeatedly insisted I must be pro-slavery. You accuse me of lackings I manifestly don't have, and logically can't have if I (according to you) can understand and explain why slavery is wrong and describe the mechanisms of a society that condones and legally sanctions the practice.

But here in this forum of a power fantasy manga, it would prove much better to talk about today's expression of slavery in media. And that is much deeper than just explaining the mechanisms in which they work, witch is the only thing my man did.

This is a disingenuous representation. The concern is not with how people react to "slavery", but how people react to "slavery in the text".

You don't want to understand what people tell you. Clearly.

 

[HawkGoggles]

This is a banal condescension that borders on a muddle of words, that's groping for a reason to still paint me in the wrong, after you repeatedly insisted I must be pro-slavery. You accuse me of lackings I manifestly don't have, and logically can't have if I (according to you) can understand and explain why slavery is wrong and describe the mechanisms of a society that condones and legally sanctions the practice.


This is a disingenuous representation. The concern is not with how people react to "slavery", but how people react to "slavery in the text".

Then let me openly apologize for saying that you like slavery. You however are someone who has trouble expressing there opinion to others that keeps them from talking about slavery on a deeper level. Because out of the gate your first course of action was to look down on the people around you.