Saijaku Tamer wa Gomi Hiroi no Tabi wo Hajimemashita - Vol. 8 Ch. 29.5 - Bonus chapter

[pgerryan]

A serious discussion about what is a slave is even about in a wholesome deep dark isekai fantasy manga? Really bois? On a weekend even. Its must be nice having so much free time on the internet

 

[PinkSakuraFlower]

also, importantly things would probably get pretty messy if a lot of people found out that she’d tamed one of the deadliest monsters in the world, so getting saved every time by the cat would probably just cause more headaches

exactlyyyyyyyyy-

 

[MadlySoldier]

So, slave topic is still going huh... well at least it is "postponed" because the town's stuffs aren't so clean even with big cleaning. And yet, she can't have her tamed companions to save her every time, with Sora being just a slime, and Ciel being something that can risk luring more danger to Ivy if Ciel appears with Ivy too many times.
And tbf for the topic, it feels less like "slave" and more "corperate contract" that's a lot more strict, and it's "old era" setting, so in a sense, not having slave in these era setting can be the weird one.
That being said from what I see from spoiler here...

Spoiler

Glad that despite all, they ended up without making Ivy having slave, but "DADDY THAT'S A LOT BETTER THAN THE SPERM DONOR" who act as guardian and bodyguard

 

[CrimsonSix]

Weird that this is labelled as a bonus chapter, even though it seems quite relevant to the main story.

 

[Seetee]

Thank you for the translations!

 

[Miserys_End]

God I hate how trivially japanese authors treat slavery, like for fuck's sake, although there are clearly a ton of corrupt people, there's still good in the world from all the people who've been willing to help her so far. Hire ONE of them instead of slave slave slave yes let's get a slave

@Sophie_Hokhmah @Banana_Splits @lolfacesayshi

Even knowing this is a waste of my time to type up, please learn some cultural history before just shitting all over another communities culture. Especially when you are reading stories that were written for them, and not you.

All that being said, yes Japan as a nation has made use of slavery in one form or another for most of their recorded history. They even went so far as to enslave millions of Chinese nationals during WWII. Which was only 80ish years ago. So even if it isn't openly practiced in modern times, slavery is deeply ingrained into Japanese culture and that is reflected in their media. Much like it is reflected in African American music and stories.

 

[zxdwas]

I still trust this story enough that I want to hope they won't fuck it up, but it's so weird to me that they had her not dump garbage in a dump cause her past life felt bad about littering, if they had her get a slave it would feel strange

 

[Hikineet]

Thanks for the chapters.

 

[Miserys_End]

I still trust this story enough that I want to hope they won't fuck it up, but it's so weird to me that they had her not dump garbage in a dump cause her past life felt bad about littering, if they had her get a slave it would feel strange

O . o?

Why would it feel strange? I mean it might to you, but it wouldn't to someone who grew up in Japan. You are and everyone else who constantly harp on the slavery content seriously forget that most manga is written for Japanese nationals and not the world at large. So of course you're going to run into content that doesn't slot in nicely with your ethics or morals.

There are many, many beautiful aspects of Japanese cultural that draws people in, but all too often people forget there are nearly just as many dark and distasteful aspects as well. Japan is no different then many other cultures. There is both good and bad. If you continue reading their stories, expect to see slavery and social inequality as peripheral but ever present themes.

 

[lolfacesayshi]

@Sophie_Hokhmah @Banana_Splits @lolfacesayshi

Even knowing this is a waste of my time to type up, please learn some cultural history before just shitting all over another communities culture. Especially when you are reading stories that were written for them, and not you.

All that being said, yes Japan as a nation has made use of slavery in one form or another for most of their recorded history. They even went so far as to enslave millions of Chinese nationals during WWII. Which was only 80ish years ago. So even if it isn't openly practiced in modern times, slavery is deeply ingrained into Japanese culture and that is reflected in their media. Much like it is reflected in African American music and stories.

I'm not American, I don't have baggage about slavery because my culture never did it (or at least didn't build an entire empire on the backs of slave labour), and I agree with you on Americans putting their baggage on other countries' stories.

My reply working off of the western ick suggestion of "what if it was just a contract?", and pointing out how stories and settings would make zero sense if magical slavery was replaced with magical contracts for the sole purpose of placating the western palate.

So respectfully, don't @ me with that.

 

[Maverun]

Just so long as the usagi doesn't drop

As far as I am aware, none of that sign is showing and I doubt will happen. This series didn't have much of romance, it was more of Slice of life living life and facing conflicts

 

[Sophie_Hokhmah]

also, importantly things would probably get pretty messy if a lot of people found out that she’d tamed one of the deadliest monsters in the world, so getting saved every time by the cat would probably just cause more headaches


Slavery (in this world) is very much a product of magically bound contracts. Slaves need to do x, y, and z, and their owners cant Do a, b, or c to them. People who commit crimes or owe a debt go to a slave trader who sets up a contract that they and the buyer must follow or there are consequences. for debt slaves, it’s not much different from a job with shitty work conditions


Funnily enough, that is very much an element of this series, though ironically, the punishment for breaking a contract like that is usually being sold into slavery

I skimmed the last couple chapters, as I've said before, so there's that. If slavery works like you said it does, than I can only baffle on why call it slavery at all and re state my previous point of "WTF Japan"

 

[Sophie_Hokhmah]

@Sophie_Hokhmah @Banana_Splits @lolfacesayshi

Even knowing this is a waste of my time to type up, please learn some cultural history before just shitting all over another communities culture. Especially when you are reading stories that were written for them, and not you.

All that being said, yes Japan as a nation has made use of slavery in one form or another for most of their recorded history. They even went so far as to enslave millions of Chinese nationals during WWII. Which was only 80ish years ago. So even if it isn't openly practiced in modern times, slavery is deeply ingrained into Japanese culture and that is reflected in their media. Much like it is reflected in African American music and stories.

Did I just read slavery apologia? lmao
Calm down dude. Look, I can understand just fine the historical context of any piece of art, that's 1st semester of any Humanities course. I can still feel exasperated on those choices, can I not? Weird thing to get all defensive of.

 

[Miserys_End]

I'm not American, I don't have baggage about slavery because my culture never did it (or at least didn't build an entire empire on the backs of slave labour), and I agree with you on Americans putting their baggage on other countries' stories.

My reply working off of the western ick suggestion of "what if it was just a contract?", and pointing out how stories and settings would make zero sense if magical slavery was replaced with magical contracts for the sole purpose of placating the western palate.

So respectfully, don't @ me with that.

Nah, if anything, I would say it's just the opposite. If you are not Japanese, or spent a significant time studying their culture, you are likely not the target audience. Most people lack the cultural context to have more then a surface understanding of what's happening most of the time.

That's in fact how we got to this point in the debt slavery conversation. Foreign nationals have taken an interest in what is thought of as children's comics, and instead have found themselves tossed into stories ment for young adults with none of the background cultural to know why the main character acts they way they do or even the situationsthey are in. Japanese media is nothing if not consistent. If interested you could track down a copy of Memoirs of a Geisha. The movie is OK, but as always the book is better.

And as a side note since we are talking cultural differences here. There is also still a language barrier despite the source material being translated. Many idioms and cultural references lack direct translations, and trying to do so would require chapters worth of information to properly understand. Like the significance of formal and informal speech. So even if the words are in English, there is often context information that didn't make it into the final edit, or in some cases was intelligible to the translator.

 

[Miserys_End]

Did I just read slavery apologia? lmao
Calm down dude. Look, I can understand just fine the historical context of any piece of art, that's 1st semester of any Humanities course. I can still feel exasperated on those choices, can I not? Weird thing to get all defensive of.

There is making excuses for a thing, and understanding why it exists. Something you clearly missed while halfassing your way thrue a low effort, electoral humanities class.

 

[Valahuir]

The whole idea of a magical contract that protects the person is a useful writing tool as well. Basically an oath.

Now.

They could ALSO just... make that a system. Oaths. Something like a bond, or a contract. Not a slave, but an agreement between 2 parties. That leaves LOTS of world-building: is it a simple thing, or complex? Can you include strange terms into it, or not? Does the oath include intent, or just action? Is the oath guarded by pure magic, or something like a spirit with it's own mind?

All of this would be interesting to flesh out.... AND WOULDNT REQUIRE LITERAL SLAVERY JAPAN COMEON

ooh I like that,
I have some writing ideas for a countries prince trying to dissemble the slave trade and that's a good way to keep valued aspects without the "people are property" they are trying to disassemble.

 

[Superpeanut]

ooh I like that,
I have some writing ideas for a countries prince trying to dissemble the slave trade and that's a good way to keep valued aspects without the "people are property" they are trying to disassemble.

I just end up seeing so many of the "slavery is actually cool yo" manga stories and get annoyed. It feels like such a lazy way for them to write.

I don't mean that the author is inherently lazy, just... tropes can be useful. But they can also be problematic. Even if someone waved a magic wand and somehow erased our entire world's history of slavery, it would still be a kinda lazy writing approach. There's nothing unique about it in these stories 99% of the time, leaving it as just a thing that exists to help the story move along without questions about people's loyalty/trust/danger/money.

As an aside, I'm actually struggling to think of many "top" manga that feature it. Most of the series with the highest regard just don't really bother with it, and have more unique writing. Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, Fullmetal Alchemist, MHA, Frieren, HxH, DBz/DBs, One Punch Man, AoT, JJK... it's rare. Even stories that DO feature it widely like The Apothecary Diaries don't sell the idea as a "good" or moral thing.

I'm mostly just ranting honestly.
I just want to see cool stories.
Relying on tropes when there are better options makes me a bit annoyed. Especially when this series has been fantastic about avoiding tropes in favor of a unique setup and buildup.
It's exactly what bugs me with a lot of Marvel's current stories - I feel like they don't want people to think too hard about the how/why characters act or what the actions say about the characters themselves. I WANT to invest in a story, but trope-filled writing feels like someone saying "hey this isn't important don't bother thinking about it".

 

[ALLxISxLOST]

Okay, I'm lost. Who does and doesn't know Ivy is a girl cause earlier chapters make it out to be she's hiding her gender so she's not thought of as an easier target but now in more recently it's like everyone knows but I don't remember her telling anyone one or anyone figuring that out on their own.

 

[panchan68]

Okay, I'm lost. Who does and doesn't know Ivy is a girl cause earlier chapters make it out to be she's hiding her gender so she's not thought of as an easier target but now in more recently it's like everyone knows but I don't remember her telling anyone one or anyone figuring that out on their own.

the people who got close to her knew that she's a girl but she doesnt confirm. She only did with Rattloore.

While others who only casually talks to her prolly thought that ivy just looks feminine

 

[Valahuir]

I just end up seeing so many of the "slavery is actually cool yo" manga stories and get annoyed. It feels like such a lazy way for them to write.

I don't mean that the author is inherently lazy, just... tropes can be useful. But they can also be problematic. Even if someone waved a magic wand and somehow erased our entire world's history of slavery, it would still be a kinda lazy writing approach. There's nothing unique about it in these stories 99% of the time, leaving it as just a thing that exists to help the story move along without questions about people's loyalty/trust/danger/money.

As an aside, I'm actually struggling to think of many "top" manga that feature it. Most of the series with the highest regard just don't really bother with it, and have more unique writing. Bleach, Naruto, One Piece, Fullmetal Alchemist, MHA, Frieren, HxH, DBz/DBs, One Punch Man, AoT, JJK... it's rare. Even stories that DO feature it widely like The Apothecary Diaries don't sell the idea as a "good" or moral thing.

I'm mostly just ranting honestly.
I just want to see cool stories.
Relying on tropes when there are better options makes me a bit annoyed. Especially when this series has been fantastic about avoiding tropes in favor of a unique setup and buildup.
It's exactly what bugs me with a lot of Marvel's current stories - I feel like they don't want people to think too hard about the how/why characters act or what the actions say about the characters themselves. I WANT to invest in a story, but trope-filled writing feels like someone saying "hey this isn't important don't bother thinking about it".

yeah, I agree with you on the fact so many stories are trying to justify slavery being quite vexing.

My thinking was that I don't see often is them trying to step away from it and the issues it would cause unwrapping it from being so ingrained in the system.
Why people might argue for it remaining for reasons that aren’t strictly abhorrent. such as magical binds securing the safety of a VIP as is referred to in this chapter. And of course ways to maintain that security while maintaining a person's freedom.

Magical contracts, would be a logical alternative to create as the magic would have to exist to create the slave contract that can bind in the first place.

I'm probably over thinking it but delving into what something implies must exist by it existing I find rather interesting thought exercise.