Sakura-chan to Amane-kun
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@mikegnesium
So "taking it seriously" only goes so far as to fetishize and stereotype the real world counterpart? That's hilarious, honestly. The entire genre only spawned because of Trans people in the first place, but Japan's highly-homophobic history has predominantly shown them in a perverse or fetishistic manner. It's the same reason in the older days of of same-sex romance manga it was so difficult to find anything that actually had anything to do with highlighting things that could help a person identify as gay when they were questioning. Discussion of when people and characters are actually trans and identifying factors are relevant to those who are or may be trans. And regardless of how upset you are about it, the tag of "Gender Bender" applies to all forms of variation from sex and gender norms... Not just what you feel like it does.
Ps; it's *hormones*, not "phermones"
So "taking it seriously" only goes so far as to fetishize and stereotype the real world counterpart? That's hilarious, honestly. The entire genre only spawned because of Trans people in the first place, but Japan's highly-homophobic history has predominantly shown them in a perverse or fetishistic manner. It's the same reason in the older days of of same-sex romance manga it was so difficult to find anything that actually had anything to do with highlighting things that could help a person identify as gay when they were questioning. Discussion of when people and characters are actually trans and identifying factors are relevant to those who are or may be trans. And regardless of how upset you are about it, the tag of "Gender Bender" applies to all forms of variation from sex and gender norms... Not just what you feel like it does.
Ps; it's *hormones*, not "phermones"
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@Lilysansiren
Whats wrong with Japan being highly homophobic?
Does the world have to share your views?
You do know the concept of "gender" was built off of pedophilia, sexual abuse and forced sex change, right?
You do know who John Money and David Reimer are, right?
You do know crossdressing is as old as Rome, right?
>the tag of "Gender Bender" applies to all forms of variation from sex and gender norms..
Sakura-chan is actually an attack helicopter!!!! when?
Whats wrong with Japan being highly homophobic?
Does the world have to share your views?
You do know the concept of "gender" was built off of pedophilia, sexual abuse and forced sex change, right?
You do know who John Money and David Reimer are, right?
You do know crossdressing is as old as Rome, right?
>the tag of "Gender Bender" applies to all forms of variation from sex and gender norms..
Sakura-chan is actually an attack helicopter!!!! when?
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@mikegnesium
@furopoi
Well its an inevitable reality, i don't know if its validated or not but i heard somewhere these people tend to be autistic, take that what you will. its just escapism imo
@furopoi
that just comes off to me as GD is on par with Flat Earth theorists tbh.
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I don't know whether you didn't understand my point, or decided to not address it on purpose, because immediately after alluding to it, you proceeded with opinion dump.
That being said, i'm also not going to reply to response to a comment from three months ago. Part of the reason behind it being, the "problem" already resolved itself in another thread (not really, but i got my answer), so i don't care anymore.
If you do however, you can contrast the amount of "gender" (perception) - related / "social hash activism" comments between threads for "serious" and light-hearted comics (where potential readers don't care about that stuff, and are there mainly for scratching their own kinks):
1) Works directly tied to the topic (+ ammount of relevant posts):
6304 (empty)
18164 (empty)
371 (empty)
23612 (empty)
6497 (empty)
5123 (empty)
2) Less tied, still could be considered relevant:
18 (empty)
7586 (empty)
11582 (empty)
2154 (empty)
Compare with:
3) Popular and simple - little to no drama or sophistication:
22615 (check)
24702 (check)
25476 (check)
21109 (check)
10848 (mentioned as relevant in one of the above)
10643 (mentioned as relevant in one of the above ; i'm on the fence with this one, but don't have plans to reread it)
Where's such big discrepancy coming from? My guess is, either from the topic itself being a fashionable fad, or from unconscious desire of people to preach social justice to largest possible crowd - after all, bigger venue theoretically comes with greater audience.
...but as i said, i grew indifferent to the whole thing and won't be engaging you guys anymore.
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@ganggangnigga
*quotes psychologist case without understanding any of its modern relevance or why it was inherently flawed and assuming from that that all modern psychology is flawed*
If you actually knew why the case was relevant and why it actually enforces alot about transgenderism and Gender Dysphoria, maybe you wouldn't be so quick to quote it. While his work had the opposite effect it was intended to it still had a profound and relevant effect on our understanding of gender. His work taught people that gender wasn't a learned behavior and that people's brains were wired certain ways at birth... And it also lead to a deeper understanding of gender dysphoria in that his thought patterns mirrored those who were dysphoric of their natural-born sex/actual transgender individuals. But please by all means tell me how someone being forced to transition without meeting any of the psychological flagstones we have today somehow invalidates everything this modern side of psychology is based on. But I'm sure none of the work that's been done since then by thousands of psychologists is relevant, right?
On the other hand; the quote of "Gender is just a construct" is referring to the idea that there is an enforced binary when in fact the brain has a natural-born disposition to one of the many genders that are theorized/belived to exists, and that while people do generally identify due to their brain structure as male or female --sometimes the opposite of their sex-- there are plenty who do not identify as male or female, but one of the many other theorized genders that are backed by most of modern psychology. However, due to a previous lack of awareness on the subject and the fact that most people are indifferent to this along with aggressively enforced "normalcy", it has only begun to gain traction... and most likely will not stop anytime soon.
Also transgender people have existed alot longer than you give them credit for-- since the ancient recorded cases in egypt and Africa of males that were referred to as women and feminine wording when referenced. The reality is people just like to bitch about it being a "fad" because; increasing awareness due to increased prominence of media about a minority of people who have existed for hundreds of years is a fad, right?
Despite the individuals getting upset that people are having a conversation as to the gender of certain characters in a manga that actually embraces these ideologies and inherent signs of being transgender --instead of fetishizing/demonizing the minority, or generally playing them off as another minority (crossdressers) that are actually much smaller in a way that is fairly regressive-- is refreshing, and people will take solace in and enjoy that fact, regardless of whether or not you understand it or even attempt to.
*quotes psychologist case without understanding any of its modern relevance or why it was inherently flawed and assuming from that that all modern psychology is flawed*
If you actually knew why the case was relevant and why it actually enforces alot about transgenderism and Gender Dysphoria, maybe you wouldn't be so quick to quote it. While his work had the opposite effect it was intended to it still had a profound and relevant effect on our understanding of gender. His work taught people that gender wasn't a learned behavior and that people's brains were wired certain ways at birth... And it also lead to a deeper understanding of gender dysphoria in that his thought patterns mirrored those who were dysphoric of their natural-born sex/actual transgender individuals. But please by all means tell me how someone being forced to transition without meeting any of the psychological flagstones we have today somehow invalidates everything this modern side of psychology is based on. But I'm sure none of the work that's been done since then by thousands of psychologists is relevant, right?
On the other hand; the quote of "Gender is just a construct" is referring to the idea that there is an enforced binary when in fact the brain has a natural-born disposition to one of the many genders that are theorized/belived to exists, and that while people do generally identify due to their brain structure as male or female --sometimes the opposite of their sex-- there are plenty who do not identify as male or female, but one of the many other theorized genders that are backed by most of modern psychology. However, due to a previous lack of awareness on the subject and the fact that most people are indifferent to this along with aggressively enforced "normalcy", it has only begun to gain traction... and most likely will not stop anytime soon.
Also transgender people have existed alot longer than you give them credit for-- since the ancient recorded cases in egypt and Africa of males that were referred to as women and feminine wording when referenced. The reality is people just like to bitch about it being a "fad" because; increasing awareness due to increased prominence of media about a minority of people who have existed for hundreds of years is a fad, right?
Despite the individuals getting upset that people are having a conversation as to the gender of certain characters in a manga that actually embraces these ideologies and inherent signs of being transgender --instead of fetishizing/demonizing the minority, or generally playing them off as another minority (crossdressers) that are actually much smaller in a way that is fairly regressive-- is refreshing, and people will take solace in and enjoy that fact, regardless of whether or not you understand it or even attempt to.
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@ Lilysansiren
the salt lmao.
You know corporations like to advertise their products with these bogus "recommend by 4/5 authority" claims so the commoner can go "ooh 4/5 authority recommend it this must be a great product!" and the thing is anybody with a phd can be considered a doctor just like anybody who has a psychology degree could be considered a psychologist. You're just spouting the whole "going to college = youre smart" jargon even though wise men have pointed it out as getting in humongous debt just for a piece of paper that wont gaurantee a job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hkov3QcCpQ
Here is this presentation a crossdressing comedian did at a college about why going to college is dumb.
You know if i didnt know this was an actual thing, i wouldve thought of it as a lighthearted insult of transsexuals.
Fascist nazi bigot 1:Oh timmy thinks he's a woman now he wants me to call him abigail!
Fascist nazi bigot 2: well call me Mil Mi-24 because I identify as an Attack helicopter!!! his screws are lose send him to the ward!haha identifying as a woman, what a crazy guy!
MORE THAN 80% OF CHILDREN WHO IDENTIFY AS THE OTHER GENDER GROW OUT OF IT
yet somehow your kinfolk are pushing for children to get hrt and surgery. There's been more cases of children getting it and regretting it. How much of a subhuman degenerate can you be to push for those practices?
Even if it trans people existed for hundreds of years why is the push for acceptance now? These hundreds have given the commoner more philosophy and great literature yet trans people were snarled at.
>troll epic style xdddddd
go follow mike guys advice and comment on those mangas that take it seriously youre not doing anything by commenting here.
>minorities(crossdressers)
they'll always be a minority because they are constantly being manipulated into transitioning. the sight of a crossdressing feminine man whos secure with their genitalia defeats the "feminity = you want to be a woman" narrative.
the salt lmao.
I do and you didnt bring it out because this study is a backbone to a bigger study a very dangerous study for pro trans people.
Yeah the recent /r9k/ trap drama and those sissy training videos are evidence.
the slenderman movie came out recently and some Wisconsin theaters choose to not show the movie out of respect for the family of the victim from that crazy case. Its said the father didn't want the movie to be made. So i didn't watch the movie for the fact that slender man is a dead meme and out of respect. Its basic compassion and out of respect for the victim of this fucked experiment i'm not going to support it fuck you mean.
appeal to authority
You know corporations like to advertise their products with these bogus "recommend by 4/5 authority" claims so the commoner can go "ooh 4/5 authority recommend it this must be a great product!" and the thing is anybody with a phd can be considered a doctor just like anybody who has a psychology degree could be considered a psychologist. You're just spouting the whole "going to college = youre smart" jargon even though wise men have pointed it out as getting in humongous debt just for a piece of paper that wont gaurantee a job.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9Hkov3QcCpQ
Here is this presentation a crossdressing comedian did at a college about why going to college is dumb.
Oh come on, you know that's bullshit or else I ganggangnigga will now get rid of my current gender and identify as a gyaru trap loli pronouns are ahhh, aiii, oohhh.
You know if i didnt know this was an actual thing, i wouldve thought of it as a lighthearted insult of transsexuals.
Fascist nazi bigot 1:Oh timmy thinks he's a woman now he wants me to call him abigail!
Fascist nazi bigot 2: well call me Mil Mi-24 because I identify as an Attack helicopter!!! his screws are lose send him to the ward!haha identifying as a woman, what a crazy guy!
How sheltered can you be to think the traction is natural? Corporate backs your ideals. Go woke get broke.
Already pointed out how many plays in rome had men crossdress.
Youre showing your ignorance because that's still a common thing in the ghetto! Walk out of your white privileged upper middle class suburb and take a stroll to the ghetto. guarantee you'll hear a black guy tell another black guy "yous a bitch nigga" or "shut up you a bitch" according to you that means the black guy is a trans because the guy referred to him as a bitch. How retarded and sheltered are you?
It is a fad because the reimer case is the backbone to this study which has concluded that
MORE THAN 80% OF CHILDREN WHO IDENTIFY AS THE OTHER GENDER GROW OUT OF IT
yet somehow your kinfolk are pushing for children to get hrt and surgery. There's been more cases of children getting it and regretting it. How much of a subhuman degenerate can you be to push for those practices?
Even if it trans people existed for hundreds of years why is the push for acceptance now? These hundreds have given the commoner more philosophy and great literature yet trans people were snarled at.
>troll epic style xdddddd
go follow mike guys advice and comment on those mangas that take it seriously youre not doing anything by commenting here.
>minorities(crossdressers)
they'll always be a minority because they are constantly being manipulated into transitioning. the sight of a crossdressing feminine man whos secure with their genitalia defeats the "feminity = you want to be a woman" narrative.
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I see mikegnesium and ganggang are still being bigoted trolls on manga about trans people.
I honestly wouldn't bother giving them the time of day @Lilysansiren since they just do this any time a trans person in the comments has the gall to (gasp) relate to a heavily trans coded character, if not a straight up trans character, which they then use as a platform to try and spread transphobic rhetoric. I'm surprised they haven't been banned yet.
I honestly wouldn't bother giving them the time of day @Lilysansiren since they just do this any time a trans person in the comments has the gall to (gasp) relate to a heavily trans coded character, if not a straight up trans character, which they then use as a platform to try and spread transphobic rhetoric. I'm surprised they haven't been banned yet.
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Oh boy. We have a comment section full of what happens when the people who love frivolous "trap" manga without thinking of how incredibly shitty and offensive even just that term is run into some of the more educated people who find it offensive. I'm actually surprised this shit doesn't happen more often.
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Facts don't care about your feelings.
...and with this, i finally bow out of this shit show. Have fun being delusional and keep conflating rarity with uniqueness. You're boring, and i'm not stepping into your tiny sized reality marble again. It will get squashed eventually, as they always do.
...and with this, i finally bow out of this shit show. Have fun being delusional and keep conflating rarity with uniqueness. You're boring, and i'm not stepping into your tiny sized reality marble again. It will get squashed eventually, as they always do.
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"Facts don't care about your feelings."
I like how this person dismissed all of their own comments with a single statement. LMAO.
I like how this person dismissed all of their own comments with a single statement. LMAO.
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@Hijinx the concept of gender and sex is actually rather interesting. Definitely recommend reading some studies about it when you get the time.
Oftentimes people conflate the two, but one is about the mental/neurological aspect while the other is the rest of the body. We humans are basically our brains, so when our genders and sex misalign we will be the most at home with our gender (neurological part). This is however in contrast to how others see us, since people's bodies reflect their sex (which they can feel is misaligned). So that's where you get a lot of conflict.
Best case scenario we understand that the neurological aspect is the most important, but sometimes things go awry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Hai?wprov=sfla1 (I feel so bad for the guy .)
Whether manga tackles this subject well varies. There are a few that do, and one autobiography, but in other cases it feels shallow :/
Oftentimes people conflate the two, but one is about the mental/neurological aspect while the other is the rest of the body. We humans are basically our brains, so when our genders and sex misalign we will be the most at home with our gender (neurological part). This is however in contrast to how others see us, since people's bodies reflect their sex (which they can feel is misaligned). So that's where you get a lot of conflict.
Best case scenario we understand that the neurological aspect is the most important, but sometimes things go awry: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Hai?wprov=sfla1 (I feel so bad for the guy
.)Whether manga tackles this subject well varies. There are a few that do, and one autobiography, but in other cases it feels shallow :/
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@Orange_Orange
I'm fairly familiar with the general subject matter. I haven't done much in-depth research, but i do read about the subject and associated terms from time to time.
I only made my previous comment because, like I said, I've been noticing manga with these issues as the focal point popping up recently. They've been around before, but they seem to be becoming more prevalent. You're right that sometimes the subject matter isn't handled "well' at times, but I can at least appreciate the effort -- it's an interesting subject regardless. Japan is rather conservative, so it's interesting to see this come about.
Unfortunately, as you can clearly see, this subject matter often turns places into a battleground. Even more so when you're dealing with a medium that people use as a form of escapism. It's a shame too -- there are so many manga out there, so why waste your time bitching about just one? People want to see this stuff, so let them have it.
I'm fairly familiar with the general subject matter. I haven't done much in-depth research, but i do read about the subject and associated terms from time to time.
I only made my previous comment because, like I said, I've been noticing manga with these issues as the focal point popping up recently. They've been around before, but they seem to be becoming more prevalent. You're right that sometimes the subject matter isn't handled "well' at times, but I can at least appreciate the effort -- it's an interesting subject regardless. Japan is rather conservative, so it's interesting to see this come about.
Unfortunately, as you can clearly see, this subject matter often turns places into a battleground. Even more so when you're dealing with a medium that people use as a form of escapism. It's a shame too -- there are so many manga out there, so why waste your time bitching about just one? People want to see this stuff, so let them have it.
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@Hijinx yeah it's a darn shame. I had the fortune of listening to one of the few plastic surgeons in Sweden who perform the operations in Sweden. Very interesting stuff, both practically and on a social/psychological level.
One interesting aspect is that since they are getting better at giving treatment earlier, the amount of skin available for a penis>vagina operation lessens. While early treatment is a net benefit, this aspect has caused concerns that new methodology needs to be invented.
Regarding this type of manga becoming more common In not sure. On one hand it is bound to be as LGBT, and specifically transgendered and transvestites, get more attention. Though subjectively I haven't noticed much of a difference. Subjective sources are awful though, and I honestly don't have the patience to develop a method to check it out more thoroughly haha.
As for portrayal, it can be great at times such as the autobiography own author made. However, the prevalence of "traps" (or specifically the culture around them)) shows there's still much left to learn.
One interesting aspect is that since they are getting better at giving treatment earlier, the amount of skin available for a penis>vagina operation lessens. While early treatment is a net benefit, this aspect has caused concerns that new methodology needs to be invented.
Regarding this type of manga becoming more common In not sure. On one hand it is bound to be as LGBT, and specifically transgendered and transvestites, get more attention. Though subjectively I haven't noticed much of a difference. Subjective sources are awful though, and I honestly don't have the patience to develop a method to check it out more thoroughly haha.
As for portrayal, it can be great at times such as the autobiography own author made. However, the prevalence of "traps" (or specifically the culture around them)) shows there's still much left to learn.
