Sasha-chan to Classmate Otaku-kun

[Togelic]

Tell me which, and how.

Because I'm not seeing how "Character development" turns "Why didn't you hang out with Sanada Senpai?! He's super popular! You can't let this chance slip away!" into "You've been telling us this whole time about the sex you've been having with Senpai, and we don't think it's our place to tell what do to sexually", and how that fits with "I bet he's going to ask for nudes now. WHY ARE YOU SENDING THEM TO HIM?!" just four chapters later.

That whole situation only makes sense if Sasha isn't sleeping around, Sanada only just now approached her, she turned him down in favor of MC, and her friends only heard about this through a rumor.

Since the manga starts at the beginning of their first school year it's very likely Sasha started sleeping with senpai after the manga started which could easily be after initially rejecting him and then only telling her friends afterwards, which would mean she didn't have anything to tell them during the group call since she wasn't sleeping with him yet. And the whole point of the chapter where her friends are calling Master a pervert is that they're testing him, so after that scene they've already accepted him.

 

[Togelic]

The problem is, even I'm into that shit, and I don't find this appealing. It's an entire bait-and-switch, where the main premise is that this girl is fucking around and the guy is using it as inspiration for the manga. That's not what was promised from the first 30 chapters. Ecchi, as all things, needs to be upfront about what they are.

Nor should I need to know a author's entire background to understand that this isn't for me. Because why would I?

That means you're not the target audience since this is very clearly targeted at people with the same kind of tastes as Haguhagu himself. Not every lolicon has exactly the same tastes so not every loli manga will appeal to all of them. And many works get popular exactly because they do a major bait and switch just look at DDLC or Madoka.

 

[UlysUlysUlys]

Honestly, I keep returning to this manga, not to read it or anything, but for the discourse and discussion.

It's an interesting topic of failed expectations, fetish getting in the way of story, and the (frankly schizo) author that made it.

You could point to any single aspect and deconstruct it, why it's bad or why it had potential. With every new person brought in, they're going to find something they liked and what their stopping point was.

It's a battleground of disappointment.

 

[Togelic]

Honestly, I keep returning to this manga, not to read it or anything, but for the discourse and discussion.

It's an interesting topic of failed expectations, fetish getting in the way of story, and the (frankly schizo) author that made it.

You could point to any single aspect and deconstruct it, why it's bad or why it had potential. With every new person brought in, they're going to find something they liked and what their stopping point was.

It's a battleground of disappointment.

Plenty of people like this manga, it's only a disappointment for people that came into it with the wrong expectations and it's totally okay for them to drop it. I know I like it a lot because it's refreshing to see an author be so honest to their desires for once.

 

[DirkHardpeck]

I remember people saying the Author said the Doujins were a separate timeline where she didn't meet Master. I think that was the conversation pre-serialization.

I appreciate an author who is wholeheartedly dedicated to his creation. Mangaka-san truly is Sasha's strongest schizo.

What a shame it turned out this way though.

 

[Thorgrin]

Since the manga starts at the beginning of their first school year it's very likely Sasha started sleeping with senpai after the manga started which could easily be after initially rejecting him and then only telling her friends afterwards, which would mean she didn't have anything to tell them during the group call since she wasn't sleeping with him yet. And the whole point of the chapter where her friends are calling Master a pervert is that they're testing him, so after that scene they've already accepted him.

Spoiler

That's not the story. I know you haven't read the raws, but the timeline (Post retcon) is clear: She starts off sleeping with him, then she gets bored with him and stops sleeping with him for a while. She turned him down after sleeping with him, and only because he lost his mystique as a Senpai.

This presents a number of problems. But the most important are that:

A) Sasha would brag about this to her friends without them even asking. They wouldn't just now be hearing about Sanada Senpai after she stops sleeping with him through a rumor (The review you were linked to explained this).

B) The reason she gave for turning Sanada Senpai down at first is entirely out of character: Sasha doesn't stop sleeping with people because she found a favorite. In fact, Hagu's made it clear for years that it actually leads her to sleep around even MORE because she likes tormenting the men in her life.

After the retcon, she outright tells us she hasn't slept with him in a while. There's no way this theory of yours that it isn't a retcon works without breaking Sasha's Character, and/or making up some convoluted timeline where Sasha at first rejects the guy she was infatuated with despite being a slut because he's not as special as MC, but then sleeps with him anyway, but then stops again.

And post-retcon friends don't think Sasha's sex life is their business, so there's no reason for them to "Test" anything. Sasha has sex with whoever she wants, and everyone has to sit there and live with it. That's the entire story after the retcon.

 

[felorav]

Plenty of people like this manga, it's only a disappointment for people that came into it with the wrong expectations and it's totally okay for them to drop it. I know I like it a lot because it's refreshing to see an author be so honest to their desires for once.

There weren't "wrong expectations", the author just blatantly retconned the story 30 chapters in. The fact that the MC never once thought about or mentioned 30.5 during the first 30 chapters despite it being the first time he interacted with her makes it very clear, something like that should 100% make a huge impact on how he saw her and interpreted her actions and their relationship but it literally never comes up. The main character's characterization and Sasha's characterization makes no sense in the first 30 or so chapters with everything we know, literally the only explanations are either the story had a very heavyhanded retcon, or the author is just an insanely bad writer and did a terrible job of establishing this and maintaining consistent characterization.

You're allowed to say you're into the fetish stuff and it gives you a boner, pretending people are wrong for being disappointed by the nonsensical pivot into polarizing content is unnecessary.

 

[Togelic]

Spoiler

That's not the story. I know you haven't read the raws, but the timeline (Post retcon) is clear: She starts off sleeping with him, then she gets bored with him and stops sleeping with him for a while. She turned him down after sleeping with him, and only because he lost his mystique as a Senpai.

This presents a number of problems. But the most important are that:

A) Sasha would brag about this to her friends without them even asking. They wouldn't just now be hearing about Sanada Senpai after she stops sleeping with him through a rumor (The review you were linked to explained this).

B) The reason she gave for turning Sanada Senpai down at first is entirely out of character: Sasha doesn't stop sleeping with people because she found a favorite. In fact, Hagu's made it clear for years that it actually leads her to sleep around even MORE because she likes tormenting the men in her life.

After the retcon, she outright tells us she hasn't slept with him in a while. There's no way this theory of yours that it isn't a retcon works without breaking Sasha's Character, and/or making up some convoluted timeline where Sasha at first rejects the guy she was infatuated with despite being a slut because he's not as special as MC, but then sleeps with him anyway, but then stops again.

And post-retcon friends don't think Sasha's sex life is their business, so there's no reason for them to "Test" anything. Sasha has sex with whoever she wants, and everyone has to sit there and live with it. That's the entire story after the retcon.

First off your theory relies on the idea that Sasha was originally written as not sleeping around, which directly contradicts Haguhagu's own statement he made well before the supposed retcon that Sasha isn't a virgin in any universe.

Secondly I never said that Sasha wasn't the one who told her friends about Senpai, what I said was that it's likely Sasha only told them about him after chapter 22 and thus only accepted her perversions when she told them.

Thirdly you shouldn't be assuming you know exactly how Sasha would act when only Haguhagu knows what kind of character Sasha is supposed to be.

Fourthly if you're not here to read the manga for fun you should prioritize your mental wellbeing and leave and move on instead of making yourself angry by arguing with me.

 

[Togelic]

There weren't "wrong expectations", the author just blatantly retconned the story 30 chapters in. The fact that the MC never once thought about or mentioned 30.5 during the first 30 chapters despite it being the first time he interacted with her makes it very clear, something like that should 100% make a huge impact on how he saw her and interpreted her actions and their relationship but it literally never comes up. The main character's characterization and Sasha's characterization makes no sense in the first 30 or so chapters with everything we know, literally the only explanations are either the story had a very heavyhanded retcon, or the author is just an insanely bad writer and did a terrible job of establishing this and maintaining consistent characterization.

You're allowed to say you're into the fetish stuff and it gives you a boner, pretending people are wrong for being disappointed by the nonsensical pivot into polarizing content is unnecessary.

I never said people are wrong for not liking this manga. What I said was that anyone who already knew Haguhagu even a little bit knew where this was going, and therefore everyone else came in not knowing what to expect.

 

[ToastyHaymaker]

The problem is, even I'm into that shit, and I don't find this appealing. It's an entire bait-and-switch, where the main premise is that this girl is fucking around and the guy is using it as inspiration for the manga. That's not what was promised from the first 30 chapters. Ecchi, as all things, needs to be upfront about what they are.

Nor should I need to know a author's entire background to understand that this isn't for me. Because why would I?

Absolutely. I'm seeing nothing but anger amongst all my lolicon friends. It's at the point where I'm not even respecting spoilers, people should know this is what happens in the story.

 

[ToastyHaymaker]

There weren't "wrong expectations", the author just blatantly retconned the story 30 chapters in. The fact that the MC never once thought about or mentioned 30.5 during the first 30 chapters despite it being the first time he interacted with her makes it very clear

30.5 confused me too when I first read it, I went back and read through early chapters to see if Senpai was ever mentioned but no, it actually was out of nowhere. The fact it's just bad writing makes everything make more sense. Thank you for helping me collect my thoughts and how I feel, cause this has bothered me the past few days since I read Ch30 and then saw either Ch70 or 72.

 

[Anoax]

Morning, i am engaging with this discussion for some time, but i want to add my 3 cents... since chapter 30 this manga changed into "edging" about ntr, and Hugu knows that. He knew what receptions this is going to make. For him, he already made loli hentai's and he is doing that only to make his work being louder.

Second of all: I think somewhere on japanese version of Patreon (or something like that) in free post he said sasha from serialized series is alternative version of Sasha from doujins but that's not confirming things from doujins didnt happened. No one is saying she didnt do anything before starting dating our protag, but thats another way to edge readers like with introducing characters from doujins etc. Hugu knew what he is doing. Ill add a little thing here, that Hugu confirmed that he has their happy ending in mind and they are going to get it, but that doesnt mean there's is not going to be shananigans in between. That means, shit can happen for character development but at the end everything will be okay... at least for them.

Lastly i would say the switch of a mood in chapter 30 and later chapters was Hugu's plan since start. We start reading, liking characters and be invested in a story, and then boom! plot twist! many people would probably drop the story, but some would stay cause they are invested, cause they want to know how story would develop and same for characters, thats why author is edging readers. Cause he knows, he can do it and people would stay. Its dirty, shady, and it reminds me of "rent a girlfriend" situation.. In short: people who stick with the series after chapter 30 are victims of Hugu's storywriting... maybe i wouldn't blame you if u would stay to around chapter 49.. but after that its revealed that mc is into her sleeping with multiple guys...

Edit: I read descriptions of chapter 72 and 73... Hugu can't be redeemed, and at this point i don't know if i want to continue reading the series...

 

[Speederzdk]

Morning, i am engaging with this discussion for some time, but i want to add my 3 cents... since chapter 30 this manga changed into "edging" about ntr, and Hugu knows that. He knew what receptions this is going to make. For him, he already made loli hentai's and he is doing that only to make his work being louder.

Second of all: I think somewhere on japanese version of Patreon (or something like that) in free post he said sasha from serialized series is alternative version of Sasha from doujins but that's not confirming things from doujins didnt happened. No one is saying she didnt do anything before starting dating our protag, but thats another way to edge readers like with introducing characters from doujins etc. Hugu knew what he is doing. Ill add a little thing here, that Hugu confirmed that he has their happy ending in mind and they are going to get it, but that doesnt mean there's is not going to be shananigans in between. That means, shit can happen for character development but at the end everything will be okay... at least for them.

Lastly i would say the switch of a mood in chapter 30 and later chapters was Hugu's plan since start. We start reading, liking characters and be invested in a story, and then boom! plot twist! many people would probably drop the story, but some would stay cause they are invested, cause they want to know how story would develop and same for characters, thats why author is edging readers. Cause he knows, he can do it and people would stay. Its dirty, shady, and it reminds me of "rent a girlfriend" situation.. In short: people who stick with the series after chapter 30 are victims of Hugu's storywriting... maybe i wouldn't blame you if u would stay to around chapter 49.. but after that its revealed that mc is into her sleeping with multiple guys...

Edit: I read descriptions of chapter 72 and 73... Hugu can't be redeemed, and at this point i don't know if i want to continue reading the series...

The biggest issue with him saying there’ll be a “happy ending” is that it doesn’t mean anything. What a happy ending entails is subjective.

A happy ending for an NTR lover is an NTR ending. A happy ending for a harem lover is harem. A happy ending for a pure love lover is pure love.

And for a person like Hagu, that happy ending might just be Sasha getting fucked by half a thousand people who all bought Masters manga, while Master watches, happy that his manga sold better from it. Who knows? All I know is that I have no trust that it’s anything less than what he usually writes, which is already way more extreme than the norm, because he couldn’t even keep his degenerate antics out of his serialized stuff.

But that’s generally not what most rom-com readers consider rom or com. Especially not if that whole situation is regarding kids.

 

[DrNexxus]

Technically has the romance and the comedy but also a lot of other shit that you dont see generally in romcoms

The biggest issue with him saying there’ll be a “happy ending” is that it doesn’t mean anything. What a happy ending entails is subjective.
A happy ending for an NTR lover is an NTR ending. A happy ending for a harem lover is harem. A happy ending for a pure love lover is pure love.

It will probaly end in a non-monogamy relation, or maybe in pure love after some promiscuity but being sasha(and haguhagu) i doubt it.
We even have two trios already, one in chapter 71-73 and another in doujin 480409

 

[Thorgrin]

First off your theory relies on the idea that Sasha was originally written as not sleeping around, which directly contradicts Haguhagu's own statement he made well before the supposed retcon that Sasha isn't a virgin in any universe.

Secondly I never said that Sasha wasn't the one who told her friends about Senpai, what I said was that it's likely Sasha only told them about him after chapter 22 and thus only accepted her perversions when she told them.

Thirdly you shouldn't be assuming you know exactly how Sasha would act when only Haguhagu knows what kind of character Sasha is supposed to be.

Fourthly if you're not here to read the manga for fun you should prioritize your mental wellbeing and leave and move on instead of making yourself angry by arguing with me.

Spoiler

First off, Sasha was, in fact, written as a virgin in the first 30 chapters. Hagu can tell us she's not until he's blue in the face, but this Sasha was acting nothing like the other one and actually went out of her way to refute the idea that she's ever been sexually active.

Second, I'M the one telling you she didn't tell her friends. Slut Sasha have told her friends immediately: She wouldn't wait to have the two whole conversations about him to say something (And even then she didn't here).

Thirdly: We have over a decade of content from Hagu that's totally canonical. Sasha has been this exact same Sasha from the start. Then we also have the later chapters to inform us exactly what kind of person she is, in case you didn't read his previous work. She broke character for a full two volumes: She didn't tell everyone about her sex friends, was never trying to seduce anyone, lied about just now learning about choking play (which she'd been doing for years at that point), all while acting shy and embarrassed about the whole thing like she isn't unabashedly sexual.

We even see her in her room multiple times, alone, bored, thinking of ways to pass the time, but not once do "Call my sex friends", or "Pick up guys", or even "stream myself masturbating" ever come up (that last one is a canon event). Up until Chapter 30, she was written as like a pervy, 13-year-old girl with no sexual experience and a sincere romantic interest in a boy.

The moment Volume 3 hits, she's the exact Sasha we come to expect. She's sexual, seductive, entirely open about everything she does, and insists she can do what she wants, and nobody can judge or stop her. She now spends the entire rest of the manga being the exact character we've come to expect from Hagu's previous work, and her behavior actually continues to escalate to a whole new peak when she forced MC into the NTR threesome.

 

[Thorgrin]

Technically has the romance and the comedy but also a lot of other shit that you dont see generally in romcoms


It will probaly end in a non-monogamy relation, or maybe in pure love after some promiscuity but being sasha(and haguhagu) i doubt it.
We even have two trios already, one in chapter 71-73 and another in doujin 480409

Spoiler

Can you really call it a romance when the two actively refuse to go out, FMC is sleeping with everyone and rubbing it in MC's face, then torturing him on purpose to get off? They're not growing any closer at all. Sasha is treating him worse than she treats randoms off the street as a canonical plot point, and the author's managed to turn that into a whole manga.

IIRC the last bit of "romance" we got was that one kiss they shared. And that was already ruined by the retcon that just happened, and then by her confusing his confession with role play and them running into her sex friend again. Ever since then, Hagu's just made jokes before occasionally telling us what a slut Sasha is, and how nobody gets to judge her for it.

And if Futoshi-kun's route is anything to go by, he's always going to rank 2nd in Sasha's mind, well behind her own father. As it stands he's in 3RD, behind even the President for the "Jr Idol" company, who literally only sees her as a plaything.

 

[Anoax]

Spoiler

13-year-old

Spoiler

11-year-old to be exact.

 

[DrNexxus]

Fourthly if you're not here to read the manga for fun you should prioritize your mental wellbeing and leave and move on instead of making yourself angry by arguing with me.

Read the fourth point Thorgrin, dont ignore it, youre acting like a tsundere, why are reading and comenting in the last chapter if dont like reading this shit dont read it for gods sake

Can you really call it a romance when the two actively refuse to go out, FMC is sleeping with everyone and rubbing it in MC's face, then torturing him on purpose to get off? They're not growing any closer at all. Sasha is treating him worse than she treats randoms off the street as a canonical plot point, and the author's managed to turn that into a whole manga.

You think romance is asking a stranger "will you be my girlfriend?" and that's it?
"refuse to go out" huh? they dont spend time together? are we reading the same manga?
"torturing him" Her character is a metsugaki, she acts like a brat once she gains confidence in master, thats how she is

Also stop puting her in the "oh she was so pure at the start but the autor made it a bitch"
She sit down beside the porn guy, chat with him and she gave him several hints that if he wanted to do perverted things she would let him.

Like Anoax pointed out, Hagu said that serialized series is alternative timeline version of Sasha from doujins
She as character is the same, she isnt a virgin but we can confirm also that not everything in the doujin is canon considering she doesnt know choking with happens in some of the doujins

 

[Togelic]

Spoiler

First off, Sasha was, in fact, written as a virgin in the first 30 chapters. Hagu can tell us she's not until he's blue in the face, but this Sasha was acting nothing like the other one and actually went out of her way to refute the idea that she's ever been sexually active.

Second, I'M the one telling you she didn't tell her friends. Slut Sasha have told her friends immediately: She wouldn't wait to have the two whole conversations about him to say something (And even then she didn't here).

Thirdly: We have over a decade of content from Hagu that's totally canonical. Sasha has been this exact same Sasha from the start. Then we also have the later chapters to inform us exactly what kind of person she is, in case you didn't read his previous work. She broke character for a full two volumes: She didn't tell everyone about her sex friends, was never trying to seduce anyone, lied about just now learning about choking play (which she'd been doing for years at that point), all while acting shy and embarrassed about the whole thing like she isn't unabashedly sexual.

We even see her in her room multiple times, alone, bored, thinking of ways to pass the time, but not once do "Call my sex friends", or "Pick up guys", or even "stream myself masturbating" ever come up (that last one is a canon event). Up until Chapter 30, she was written as like a pervy, 13-year-old girl with no sexual experience and a sincere romantic interest in a boy.

The moment Volume 3 hits, she's the exact Sasha we come to expect. She's sexual, seductive, entirely open about everything she does, and insists she can do what she wants, and nobody can judge or stop her. She now spends the entire rest of the manga being the exact character we've come to expect from Hagu's previous work, and her behavior actually continues to escalate to a whole new peak when she forced MC into the NTR threesome.

If you don't trust Haguhagu's word on Sasha to be accurate why would you trust his work to be accurate? It's a little weird to cherrypick only the evidence that supports your opinion and say you understand the character better than the creator does.