Sengoku Komachi Kuroutan: Noukou Giga - Vol. 3 Ch. 12 - Invasion
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Member
- Joined
- Aug 27, 2018
- Messages
- 27
@kalton
@CyBerK
I don't get the crossbow wank in this manga. Nobunaga is famous for the matchlock rifle, he even developed rifling and volley fire before the Europeans!
The matchlock is superior to the crossbow in every way, and the longbow in the hand of a skilled archer is superior to both in every way.
@Nina-chan Nobunaga doesn't like monks I guess. Though Ishiyama won't happen for a while.
@CyBerK
I don't get the crossbow wank in this manga. Nobunaga is famous for the matchlock rifle, he even developed rifling and volley fire before the Europeans!
The matchlock is superior to the crossbow in every way, and the longbow in the hand of a skilled archer is superior to both in every way.
@Nina-chan Nobunaga doesn't like monks I guess. Though Ishiyama won't happen for a while.
@Nina-chan Monks is just another faction (that's not friendly with nobunaga in the original history) in Sengoku war, so Nobunaga won't like it.
In original History, They used temple in mountain as a castle and defended it against Nobunaga's siege fiercely and the 2nd time they did it, Nobunaga just so pissed off at them he burned the entire mountain
And monks here is not just monks, they're gun-monks
@MagisterMeretricum
I wonder if it's because the training needed indeed, if he can make a strategy that utilizes crossbow better, maybe he can replace strength-required longbowman into non-strength-required crossbowman in some cases
What I wonder is if Shizuko really helps improving the crossbow, considering her pacifist mind. WN reader anyone?
In original History, They used temple in mountain as a castle and defended it against Nobunaga's siege fiercely and the 2nd time they did it, Nobunaga just so pissed off at them he burned the entire mountain
And monks here is not just monks, they're gun-monks
@MagisterMeretricum
I wonder if it's because the training needed indeed, if he can make a strategy that utilizes crossbow better, maybe he can replace strength-required longbowman into non-strength-required crossbowman in some cases
What I wonder is if Shizuko really helps improving the crossbow, considering her pacifist mind. WN reader anyone?
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2018
- Messages
- 1,451
Were are the Jesuits...?
I don't know, will or will not Oda die in he end?
I think there's two possibilities.
Number 1, Shizuko will judge that Oda is changed is not a devil and deserves to live.
Number 2, Shizuko will let Oda die because she fears what he'll do with the country in the future and will actually succeed him.
Number Hypothetical, Shizuko will let Oda die because he fears what he'll do with the country in the future but will not succeed him, instead she'll chose a successor for a peaceful future.
I wanted to see Shizuko as Shogun.
I don't know, will or will not Oda die in he end?
I think there's two possibilities.
Number 1, Shizuko will judge that Oda is changed is not a devil and deserves to live.
Number 2, Shizuko will let Oda die because she fears what he'll do with the country in the future and will actually succeed him.
Number Hypothetical, Shizuko will let Oda die because he fears what he'll do with the country in the future but will not succeed him, instead she'll chose a successor for a peaceful future.
I wanted to see Shizuko as Shogun.
Member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2018
- Messages
- 455
@MagisterMeretricum
because it's more reliable, quieter, possible to use it with one hand on a horse (hold the direction of the horse and less noise that scares the horse), there is less recoil, generally faster to recharge, less expensive to manufacture and it is impossible to recharge it 10 times in a row and not to see that we did not put the ignition system
It's not a joke it happened a lot (many weapons were found on battlefields with 2 to 10 reloads in the barrel)
the training was done without the ignition system, so by habit in the heat of the action only these gestures were repeated correctly
Latchet Crossbow was popular in Northern England and Southern Scotland around 1600 and was reputedly used by Border Reivers as a self defence weapon.
(280lbs draw weight lever action crossbow giving a rate of 'fire' of one every 10 seconds.)
because it's more reliable, quieter, possible to use it with one hand on a horse (hold the direction of the horse and less noise that scares the horse), there is less recoil, generally faster to recharge, less expensive to manufacture and it is impossible to recharge it 10 times in a row and not to see that we did not put the ignition system
It's not a joke it happened a lot (many weapons were found on battlefields with 2 to 10 reloads in the barrel)
the training was done without the ignition system, so by habit in the heat of the action only these gestures were repeated correctly
Latchet Crossbow was popular in Northern England and Southern Scotland around 1600 and was reputedly used by Border Reivers as a self defence weapon.
(280lbs draw weight lever action crossbow giving a rate of 'fire' of one every 10 seconds.)
@Gauvain Ratchet crossbows can't be used with one hand. They were too long and heavy for that. There was a light crossbow for use by riders, but these didn't have anything like the power of the ratchet crossbows because they were drawn using the power of the leg and just one arm. The analog of the one-handed cavalry crossbow was actually the pistol, which started life as a cavalry weapon and had significantly more stopping power than the light crossbow to start with.
Also, Japanese cavalrymen didn't need reins to control their horses. They were after all fighting with two-handed polearms and longbows to begin with. They used their legs to apply control just like every other East Asian horseman in the period.
There is absolutely no advantage in using ratchet crossbow in the Sengoku era. To begin with, Japan didn't even have the right type of spring steel available domestically until the 19th century. They would have had to make high-draw crossbows using composites just like the Chinese and other mainlanders, and it took between 4 months to half a year just to cure the glue to bond the disparate materials together. Production would have been a total nightmare compared to the mass-produced Tanegashima matchlocks. The author just needs a way for Shizuko to contribute technology to sengoku-era warfare but chose the wrong item to do it with.
You know what Shizuko could have contributed? Basic medical knowledge. 90% of battle casualties die AFTER the battle. Now, in the case of the Japanese headhunting had a lot to do with it, but providing basic medical services for battle survivors would save many lives on the winning side.
Or just paper armor. The Qing Dynasty in China switched into using paper armor in the mid-17th century due to encounters with firearms-wielding "barbarians". They discovered that multiple layers of soft materials worked better against arrows and bullets than steel did. This is of course how we modern people armor ourselves against modern firearms today.
Also, Japanese cavalrymen didn't need reins to control their horses. They were after all fighting with two-handed polearms and longbows to begin with. They used their legs to apply control just like every other East Asian horseman in the period.
There is absolutely no advantage in using ratchet crossbow in the Sengoku era. To begin with, Japan didn't even have the right type of spring steel available domestically until the 19th century. They would have had to make high-draw crossbows using composites just like the Chinese and other mainlanders, and it took between 4 months to half a year just to cure the glue to bond the disparate materials together. Production would have been a total nightmare compared to the mass-produced Tanegashima matchlocks. The author just needs a way for Shizuko to contribute technology to sengoku-era warfare but chose the wrong item to do it with.
You know what Shizuko could have contributed? Basic medical knowledge. 90% of battle casualties die AFTER the battle. Now, in the case of the Japanese headhunting had a lot to do with it, but providing basic medical services for battle survivors would save many lives on the winning side.
Or just paper armor. The Qing Dynasty in China switched into using paper armor in the mid-17th century due to encounters with firearms-wielding "barbarians". They discovered that multiple layers of soft materials worked better against arrows and bullets than steel did. This is of course how we modern people armor ourselves against modern firearms today.
@Nina-chan By 1567, both Oda and Tokugawa had proscribed the popular Ikko-Ikki Buddhist sect in their lands. Nobunaga is more famous for his persecution, but by 1564 Tokugawa had eradicated all Ikki presence in Mikawa. Wanting to build a temple in an autonomous town was the same as claiming support for the Ikki movement. Also, at this time both Takeda Shingen and Uesugi Kenshin had converted to Ikki Buddhism. They would later send support to Ishiyama Hongan-ji when Nobunaga besieged the mountain in 1571.
Member
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2018
- Messages
- 455
@sssr
I agree with you Ratchet crossbows is not a good choice
frankly the power advantage of Ratchet crossbows is not very useful, that's why I'm talking about Latchet Crossbow
but in any case the other benefits are more than enough to shade the matchlock rifle
that's the only point I was trying to show
but I do not say that rifle is useless for all, it may have advantages in certain specific cases
there are some aspects of the story that you have not taken into account
the crossbow is not something she invented for the army but for her
initially she is there only for agriculture
so do not ask her to be medic, weapon maker, or strategist advisor, that's the lord who's doing that sort of thing
I agree with you Ratchet crossbows is not a good choice
frankly the power advantage of Ratchet crossbows is not very useful, that's why I'm talking about Latchet Crossbow
but in any case the other benefits are more than enough to shade the matchlock rifle
that's the only point I was trying to show
but I do not say that rifle is useless for all, it may have advantages in certain specific cases
there are some aspects of the story that you have not taken into account
the crossbow is not something she invented for the army but for her
initially she is there only for agriculture
so do not ask her to be medic, weapon maker, or strategist advisor, that's the lord who's doing that sort of thing
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2018
- Messages
- 1,308
@saredesu Sengoku Basara reference?
@Suisuigo
@LowSanity
@Sakuratea
At this time, Sanada Yukimura, Kato Kiyomasa, Mori Ranmaru are still children.
As a Touken Ranbu fan, I recognize the spear is Tonbokiri, one of Japan's 3 great spears.
@Suisuigo
@LowSanity
@Sakuratea
At this time, Sanada Yukimura, Kato Kiyomasa, Mori Ranmaru are still children.
As a Touken Ranbu fan, I recognize the spear is Tonbokiri, one of Japan's 3 great spears.
- Joined
- Mar 21, 2019
- Messages
- 48
Is she going to end up with that spear guy? He's the guy on the cover right? Same hairline and everything.
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Oct 10, 2018
- Messages
- 2,051
spear and a young guy
its Sanada Yukimura
its Sanada Yukimura
@MagisterMeretricum @monkaS
I shit i didn't know they already had infantry firearms in that era. TIL
I shit i didn't know they already had infantry firearms in that era. TIL
Similar threads
