Sengoku Komachi Kuroutan: Noukou Giga - Vol. 4 Ch. 16 - Pursuit

[Rayster]

Shizuko is slowly making her own legends and myths that will go down in history, yes girl do your best~
Kinda curious about the entity in the fog, it looks supernatural, I wonder if there are higher/divine beings scheming things behind-the-scene.

 

[Doutei-Sama]

@Dragonaz It is actually JSDF which is Japan Self-Defense Force.

 

[sylvacoer]

Nobunaga looking "cute" asking so many questions about the future was a bit of a trip. 🤣Are they actually going to explain the mechanics of the timeslip?

 

[Nep]

@kenx The one thing confirmed by all sources is that Nobunaga is a progressive person. While the rest of the continent insists on using swords, he embraces guns. He embraces western culture while the rest of the continent reject it. He goes after those that oppose him making him ruthless. However, all rulers do this. The only difference here is that Nobunaga is the oddball progressive guy in a world of conservatives so he gets opposed a lot more. That is enough to be a Demon King.

On a side note, he could also be portrayed as a curious child wanting 'new toys' or doing things his way (read: guns, western stuff, etc, riding bikes indoors) and 'throwing tantrums' (Kill Every Last One of Them) when he doesn't get them if we want to go NobunaGag. There are so many ways to portray Nobunaga but almost everyone wants to paint him as a cruel tyrant when they play the historical route.


@miyako19

But Nobunaga is famous for being rather cruel. He ordered his men to burn down Mount Hiei and slaugtered even women and children.

I will just quote this information from the technically untrustworthy Wikipedia. We all don't know how true this information is but it certainly raises a few more questions.

The Tendai monks of Mt. Hiei were long great enemies of Oda Nobunaga, due to their strength and independence, and due to their alliance with the Azai and Asakura clans.

Now, if self-proclaimed holy individuals with a lot of military power and also independence decide to join the war and side with your enemies while hiding on top of their very flammable holy mountain...

In hindsight, I would have burned down Mt Hiei as well. However, I am someone who doesn't believe in religion (i believe in God but not religion. Not sure what classification I belong to.) so any holiness they might have are pretty much lame excuses. The women and children on Mt Hiei? I am just going to ask this weird question. What women and children? The one said to have been slaughtered on a mountain full of Buddhist monks by those already painting Nobunaga as evil?

There is a chance that Nobunaga is truly a cruel and evil being but there is also a chance that he simply isn't and the people around him are assholes. We wouldn't know because they are all dead and history is usually just a fancy way of saying "some guy's personal fiction". Its about high time we get a 'Good Nobunaga with a happy ending'. I mean, what other purpose is there to time travel fiction?

This applies to Liu Bei and Cao Cao as well just so you know.

 

[Fuko]

Gun powder when?

 

[Pocky8]

Quite outrageous, indeed 🤣

 

[CivilSky]

@nep while i agree that oda got an especially persistant historical villain upgrade for actions that don't particularly make him stand out from his peers except in his overall success

if i had to guess where the women and children on Mt Hiei came from; probably evacuated from elsewhere- likely the nearby villages oda destroyed before encircling the mountain.

honestly i feel like the fire of mt Hiei is only particularly notable as an act for how effective it was, as im pretty certain scorched earth tactics was used by other sengoku period warlords as well.

 

[criver]

The whole "you're not from thid world" was so forced. I can understand him thinking that she was from some European country or whatever, but time traveling? The author just took over the character to push the story to progress.

 

[Aichan]

@Panino

It's not that Japanese constitution forbids an army. Japanese constitution forbids an offensive army. It's perfectly fine with Japanese constitution for Japan to make a defensive army. Nowadays, Shinzo Abe is reinterpreting the constitution to mean 'defending Japanese allies and interest' in response to China's aggression on Japan and South East Asia, but the Japanese people don't like that. Current Japanese people in general hate wars in general and JSDF is the embodiment of that hate.

@CivilSky
Actually not. The women on Mount Hiei were mistresses of the monks. Despite Buddhist temples telling monks to refrain from women, meat and booze, the monks of Mount Hiei indulged in women, meat and booze excessively and they lined their pockets with money. The children there were mostly their illegitimate children. Of course, there may also be women and children trickling in from other places and merchants would've likely set up shop there as well. But a large number of the women were either whores or concubines and the majority of children were children of the monks. They can't do that in the temples, but nobody cares if they go to the town and goes wild.

 

[d3ban]

@criver
? magic old man literally told him shizuko was time-travelling. oda didn't randomly come up with that ridiculous idea himself

 

[scripted]

I wanna know her drunk shenanigans!!!

LEMME IN LEMME IN!!

 

[miyako19]

@Nep
Even though I am a Buddhist, I am not discussing the matter of religion here. In fact, the main reason Nobunaga eliminated the monks of Mount Hiei was not due to religion but to remove his obstacles in taking the country, the same with the Takeda, the Uesugi, the Mouri, the Asakura, the Azai, etc.
Nobunaga did not only attack the temples on Mount Hiei. He attacked the towns near the base of the mountain too and those towns were full of civilians, women and children. He started his attack by burning the town of Sakamoto which drove the civilians into seeking refuge in the mountain then had his men surrounded and ascended the mountain while killing anyone they met. He had a policy of not letting anyone escape and ordered his men to hunt down to the last of the survivors. In war like this, civilians are always the one that suffered the most.
Even Hideyoshi and Ieyasu committed many atrocities but there must be something that made people feared Nobunaga and called him "Demon King of the Sixth Heaven". And there is a theory that Akechi Mitsuhide staged a coup against Nobunaga because he couldn't stand many horrible things Nobunaga did anymore, his own brother and brother-in-law also went against him so there must be some truths in that. Even our MC before the time travel did not want to work under him.

 

[criver]

@d3ban No? He saw some goofy old man making some cryptic prophecy. Normally you'd take this for some old senile fool spouting bs.
And it's even less likely you'll relate that to some girl you found in a forest. If you see somebody funny, your first thought would not be time traveling.

 

[charkan]

The author (god / okami ?) Really wants to create the legend of Shizuko in this new japan.

@Rayster
Wolf god? Shizuko wolves can really be avatars of this god.
Japanese wolves were long extinct, perhaps a maneuver to save the species.

@criver
Time travel in this story really falls under the isekai theme. Shizuko went to another world, a timeline that can no longer reverse.

 

[criver]

@charkan Does Nobunaga being adamant it is time travel also fall under the isekai theme? Or does it fall under sloppy writing? It was just a forced progression of the story, the author could have been more subtle about it.

 

[charkan]

@criver
This is well discussed in "Time Bastard" theories. An example would be the paradoxes found in the Chrono series. That can only be explained if a second world is created.

 

[criver]

@charkan I lost you. There's no reason for Nobunaga to believe that she is a time traveler just because she has knowledge that he doesn't. Otherwise he would consider all other countries that are far away enough to be made of time travelers. The Portuguese introduced newer firearms to Japan in 1543 - did he deem them time travelers too then? No, he ordered 500 matchlocks, without any mention of time traveling mind you. It just makes no sense for him to be so bent on believing that she's from an alternate universe rather than from far away. It's a plot device so that she could tell him that she's from the future, without actually seeming like she wants to tell him. The problem is that this plot device is a little too obvious and blunt. /rant

 

[Fox-Hidden]

@criver holy @charkan
both of you have great comments.
so satisfying to read both of your comment

 

[Sep10trion]

As far as conquerors are concerned, quite a few were known for their brutality but also their progressive policies. It’s how many civilizations advanced. Nobunaga is really no different.
Genghis Khan razed an entire kingdom after they killed his messenger. He also open trade routes and allowed freedom of religion in his domain (so long as there was no subterfuge)
Julius Caesar conquered the Gauls and gave many of his citizens popular reforms. For this he got shanked
Napoleon’s transcontinental warfare. He also reformed outdated feudal laws with the Napoleonic Code.

These kinds of changes were due in no small part to how they were reshaping society.

 

[criver]

@Sep10trion I think that the other commenters' point was that the goal does not justify the means.