Sousou no Frieren - Vol. 2 Ch. 15 - Draht

[Mattopui]

@c1
Well yes, purely evil races are often one dimensional. In fact this is NOT an evil race. They are creatures lacking empathy, but they do not do evil for the sake of being evil: they are predators, who instead of using physical tactics (for example ambushes in tall grass) to hunt use speech. An alignment to DND would define them as Pure Neutral, as beasts or constructs.

 

[Mattopui]

Thinking about it, it must have been pretty scary for the demon girl.

Imagine that while you are hunting your prey they surround you and decide to kidnap you.
They are strange creatures that you cannot understand, whose actions make no sense. Lunatic and crazy.

Think about it: to a demon, humans must look like psychopaths, who could attack at any moment for no reason. Worse, they are hostile and you can feel it.

You are surrounded, some of them are even super strong, so you have no hope of beating them. So you try a diplomatic approach, presumably after thinking for quite some time. But for some reason your offer of peace causes them to freak out and they attack you in packs.

You're screwed, and you don't even know why!

Heck, living among humans must seem like a nightmare to them. I'm not surprised they choose war.

 

[parkourse]

@Mattopui

well huh.

 

[justwantedtosearchaseriestitle]

wow, frieren have a very interesting characterization.....on the previous chapter we discover that she already knew how inhuman demons are and a liar (really like how the author showing the "sweet words" is the weapon/tricks that demons use to deceive humans), also a few flashback were shown. in here we see frieren just give no damn shit for the demon she killed, speechless...excited for the next chapter

 

[Batzilla]

Woa seems there's some discussion going on
...
Yea the demon is not "evil" they're just a wild beast that use seemingly human attributes to hunt their prey.

 

[TNT261]

This is a different tactic (well slightly different) on how to write demons. Personally I cannot say I’m a fan. This and similar takes on demons still come off far too much as “human” focused. Which is ultimately why I despise. Every living organism (including humans) are all the same. All any living thing wants to do is survive and thrive (leave with as little hardship as possible). Sure demons are imposing their will on humanity and trying to dominate the world, so what then of humanity which already imposes its will on the rest of the world, killing other species as they see fit, and establishing their dominion across the globe? I’m not saying that either side is good or bad, I’m saying that neither side will NEVER be “good” or “bad”. Those are arbitrary terms we use on anything that opposes are supremacy and I hate it. Every single time. When we kill animals for food or chop down trees and destroy entire forests (which I feel is often forgotten are also alive), it’s all fine and dandy (and it’s not even like we HAVE to. We’re omnivores and we don’t need entire cities to survive; hell after a certain point we stopped doing it to survive and just kept doing it for money and convenience getting to the point where we’d wipe out entire species and slowly destroy the earth, but yeah. We’re the “good” guys). But whenever any (literally any) other species starts killing some humans they are immediately label as “evil” or “monsters”. What shitty double standard. I actually hate more than anything when we try to sympathize with them just because they have humanoid form. Because humans have no issue taking innocent life but only as long as it doesn’t look like us. If it looks like us we’ll try and convince it to kill other innocent animals because as long as it isn’t killing us or benefits us in some way, it goes from being an evil monster to a divine good saint. And again, I’m not saying demons are good or evil; I’m saying that no one is or ever will be. At the very least if there is some “universal comic scale” to determine this stuff humanity clears has no right to stand as judge or on the sidelines labels. We’d probably be on the evil side just as easily as any “demons”. This hypocritical double standard is infuriating and I didn’t want another series I really like to throw it at my face again. How does no one else see this and absolutely blaze with rage?! I remember watching supernatural and there were these vampires who were good because they drank blood (which they need to not die) from animals (everything not human) instead of humans because somehow that’s how good and bad is determined. We stand on our high horses so condescending and conceited with so many self justifications (I mean we write in our religions excuses for how we treat the rest of the planet) and labeling everything else left and right, but no one seems to want to take a step back and realize that all life is the same; every living thing is just trying to do the same as every other life form. Who are we or anyone to stamp a label or “good or bad” on that? And I understand we’re going to get this writing because its from the perspective of humans, but I can’t not get angry reading it. Demons are labels as nothing but monsters who can speak for deceptions, but so what over it? It sounds like you just described literally all of humanity (if they don’t deceive others, they deceive themselves). And I would say that a monster has my sympathy everyday as does all life. Sure they kill, every living thing does (unless you make food from the sun), they have to to survive. I mean you want to talk about killing a few humans? A single village. That’s child play compared to we do. We stomp out life and call them pests just because they annoy us. We eradicate entire species for the profit (that’s called extinction and might as well be genocide by the way; the latter we don’t ever want to apply to anything non-human (and as such somehow has a scarier connotation; what?). I have no problem with humanity defending itself, fighting back, and trying to stay alive against all threats (because again every living organism does, it’s nothing good or evil). I have a problem with them doing it while on a pedestal and labeling the other side as “monsters” or “evil” as if somehow it’s more “right” and “good” that they don’t die than any other lifeform because everything else that can be a threat is “evil incarnate”. That’s something I am NEVER. Going to enjoy reading. I already have to live and hear that shitty standpoint in real life everyday. Stories in any written form are my escape for that constant headache. You wanna talk about discrimination, prejudice, or racism? I’ll do you one better. Just look around the world any given day. How many bugs do you kill because their mere existence annoys you? How many domesticated pets do you see that we command and control for nothing but our own amusement and enjoyment (hell, in the case of dogs and horses, selectively breed. Did you know we get pedigrees and purebreds by basically forcing dogs to inbred?)? How many drug and product tests do you hear about that we made sure were done on other animal species that can’t talk or have any awareness or choice, before we even LET humans that understand the risks volunteer? Humanity will never get better, and that’s neither good or bad (I don’t believe any other species in our position would be any better), but it does need to be acknowledged. We instinctively see anything that looks, acts, or speaks different as wrong and anything that threatens our dominance as evil, and honestly I just hate it. I hate that we continue to do this everyday. And again, I don’t come to read my one of my favorite series to get reminded of that. I guess I’ll just be skipping the next few chapters. I’m just going to assume we’ll be done with this and onto a less conceited story line (to a level I can at least ignore and just enjoy the cast again) by chapter 20.

 

[Hasshi]

@TNT261
I completely agree with you. It gets very annoying and frustrating to see people who think that humans are superior species and think their ideals and morals govern everything AND DONT EVEN ADMIT IT. For one, some people are very adverse to eating dogs but dont care less about eating cows which I cant understand. Vegetarians or vegans dont eat meat because animals are much easier to relate to than plants, even though both are living organisms. And some people try to justify the existance of humans with "some humans are good", but by what definition of good?

It gets really frustrating to see people fail to realize that there is no "good" or "bad", simply a difference in point of views, ideals, and/or morals. Or maybe even changing times. In my opinion, what's "good" or "bad" is simply decided by society. As society changes, the concept of what "good" or "bad" is also changes.

It's very satisyfing to see someone with similar/same thoughts as I do so I kinda went on a hit of a rant. But I won't be getting into an argument here so anyone who disgrees with me, please just realize that I think differently than you do (it is perfectly fine to disagree btw).

Society would completely shoot down what I'm saying tho. As some probably wouldnt listen to any of my arguments and adamantly insist that they're correct and others simply jusr wouldnt want to believe.

(Excuse any typos, I typed this on phone)

P.S. The words inhuman/inhumane are very interesting. Since they are words that can only be used to describe humans in real life...

 

[The_Blues_13]

@AbuHajaar Mage Frieren, the Demon Slayer.
"Rip and tear, until it's done!"

She has a nearly similar view of demon race as what Goblin slayer had regarding Goblins, and it's kinda cool.

 

[JoshuaDMarti]

I still see some people butthurt from things that the manga don't even say. The manga hasn't described demons as "evil" but as "wild beasts" in the same sense as any other "natural predator". As far as we know Demons had developed the ability to use words almost at the same level as Humans, NOT because they understand humans, but because they learnt that using words they can decieve humans. They dont hold familiar bonds BUT are aware of terms like "mother, father, son" and use it to decieve humans (like how the little demon girl used "mother" to make the townsfolk have pity of her or how Lugner used "father" to mimic Granat's desire of avenge for his son) YET they seem to have hierarchy bonds based on POWER (Political or Combat? We still dont known, but it seems to refer to "combat power"). It seems that Author-san is still playing the usual story of "demons are hunting humans" and people are mad because of that, this was never meant to be a revolutionary story that changes how usual "hero party vs demon lord" stories go, but to tell the story in the perspective of a inhuman being that failed to understand humans and by her own desire is trying to understand them, We have seen humans, dragons, demons, dwarves, its all just playing in the same sense of a usual fantasy adventure, but all in the perspective of someone trying, again, TRYING, to understand humans.
Ofc if you see a problem with it, then just pretend that anything about this is happening, but I really fail to see why people have a problem with the way the story is portraying demons. They aren't humans, the manga hasn't addressed them as evil, but obviously since they are NOT humans they are gonna clash with them and there is nothing wrong with it. We are talking about an elf that is trying to understand humans and have already dealt with the demon lord (and basing on how she talked about demons back in chapter 14 we can assume that she had dealt with demons for a LONG time, and she is just acting as how she knows that demons will act). This manga is not even trying to make Freiren suddenly understand humans, but at least try to learn about them, then in the chapter about the new year anniversary you all expected Frieren to suddenly go a enjoy the anniversary because "oh, wow, such a beautiful view, surely Humans are something else"? Nope, at the end she didn't understand anything about it, and she didn't find any value in the festival or the sunrise, but she smiled cuz someone "close" to her smiled as well Yet I didnt see anyone complaining about it, the "inhuman elf girl" kept behaving as an inhuman elf girl yet we learn a bit more about how she bonds with humans. But now that we are slowly learning that Demons here are not just "Saturday morning villains" but they are an inhuman race that predates and clash with humans you all feel troubled about it.
As I said, this is not a battle between "evil" vs "good" but between "humans" and a race that its definitely NOT human and that was designed by the author to decieve humans in a way that they use daily, with words. A few comments ago I made a similar comment, but I will repeat myself, we DONT know where this is all going to, we DONT know how is this gonna affect Freiren, Fern or even Stark! I didn't see you all making this fuss when Qual the evil demon sorcerer literally tried to avenge his lord and, well, acted like a demon even when he understood that the war ended and that there wasn't anything else to fight for, or when the solar dragon acted just like an animal and nothing more, but you all are making a fuss over the humanoid demons that predate on humans. Just fucking calm down and wait to see where this is all coming to. Right now this is a good story, a very unusual one, its slow and its nostalgic, yet you are all worrying about the "evil beings that torment humans for whatever reason" just sit down, read and pay attention, once this arc ends you all can fuss as much as you want. Im sure that the main reason you all act like this is because we still dont know a solid reason for demons to predate on humans (even if you all where silent when Qual acted as any other manga devil demon)

 

[Namwal]

Most Manga's nowadays portrays demons as "misunderstood". Which they are in their respective manga's. So it is a change of pace to see demons portrayed as human eaters. Who only imitate human morals/emotions in order to eat more humans.

 

[squishles]

It's weird writing demons as demons feels fresh and new.

 

[Kakashi9]

😲This manga did a 180 from a slow paced slice of life to a badass fight scene in like 3 pages😲

 

[ktensei]

@Solipsist Bees have a strict hierarchy and discipline but they don't have the same definition of family that humans do. A hierarchy and discipline aren't innately human. There's quite a few species that have them but they aren't exactly, well, human. Honestly, I don't think humans can really understand how a species without empathy can live in groups simply because we are an empathetic species. It's hard for us to see through the perspective of one that's antipathic. Take the bees, for example. We humanize them by referring to them as the queen bee and worker bees, but the worker bees aren't loyal to the queen bee. They just feed her because she lays eggs, which insures the survival of their hive.

 

[lovolo]

 

[bobbybiracial]

+ Talk no Jutsu resistance

 

[Benerbaijan]

Thanks for the chapter

 

[Izaya_Onisai]

Why would we want it to get licensed? The "official translators" working on most series don't put much effort into it.

They translate slowly and if they make errors, they won't fix them.

Often even the quality of pages becomes a mess, after they worked on it.

I rather read it translated by people that actually like the series and put effort into translating it, and if the series is great, I will buy a raw copy of the book.

 

[PolarMeow]

The demons nowadays have gotten complacent, haven't they?

 

[Solipsist]

@ktensei
True, but the reader would be able to understand demon-ecology, if it didn't seem so bluntly...wrong. We can understand the concept of hive-minds because it's consistent. Even without any scientific explanations, we can see how selfless and straightforward their behavior is. Demons, however...These creatures are defined as lonesome creatures that prefer isolation, are extremely predatory, and there is no mention of instinctual behavior to benefit the race like a "hive-mind". Thus far, we have no idea if all of these contradictions make sense for Demons. Creatures that are defined as lone-wolves predators, but apparently they are also able to respect hierarchy and take orders.

I find it even hard to say "but that's just what we know right now", because a longed-lived elf has clearly labeled them as a hopeless existence that only wants blood. I just don't feel like there'd be a good arc around demons that'd reveal why all of these contradictions can band together.

 

[Rov000]

There's no need for a discussion, demons are a plague that needs to be erased. It you are a demon apologist, go get burned alive you filthy eretic.