Taida na Akujoku Kizoku ni Tensei shita Ore, Scenario wo Bukkowashitara Kikakugai no Maryoku de Saikyou ni Natta - Ch. 22.2 - Saving and Being Saved …

[Justanotherson]

My man Allen is actually sharper than i thought

 

[Sheza]

And why does this mean I can't express my opinion that it is an asspull and unworthy of merit?

The MC has consistently been harshly trained for days at a time by Milk. He also doesn't exhibit significant fatigue in any of the pages of the fight. Yes there are two frames where it shows exertion, but there are multiple pages in between with many showing the MC energetic and conversing normally.

So yes I still reject the explanation and think it's an asspull.

damn you must be fun at parties, cant even have a suspension of disbelief then why are you reading an isekai fantasy manga? Also webnovel readers did explain that weiss is out of mana here although the manga adaptation failed to do so.

 

[Miserys_End]

damn you must be fun at parties, cant even have a suspension of disbelief then why are you reading an isekai fantasy manga? Also webnovel readers did explain that weiss is out of mana here although the manga adaptation failed to do so.

There is suspension of disbelief, and then there is intentionally sabotaging a character with an utterly contrived sequence of events for a plot development.

Last couple chapters sees two characters harried and cornered at the edge of a cliff. Weiss and temporary team member shows up and seemingly saves the day. Only they fail to notice one of supposedly wild beasts playing dead that without anyone being able to react, shoulder tackles someone off the cliff. The then completely exhausted and out of mana Weiss selflessly jumps off the cliff to save her, which in turn necessitates the stories orignal protagonist jumping out of nowhere to save his originally hated antagonists.

Yupper, nothing wrong at all with any of that. Carry on people, nothing to see here but old man yelling at clouds....

 

[Sheza]

There is suspension of disbelief, and then there is intentionally sabotaging a character with an utterly contrived sequence of events for a plot development.

Last couple chapters sees two characters harried and cornered at the edge of a cliff. Weiss and temporary team member shows up and seemingly saves the day. Only they fail to notice one of supposedly wild beasts playing dead that without anyone being able to react, shoulder tackles someone off the cliff. The then completely exhausted and out of mana Weiss selflessly jumps off the cliff to save her, which in turn necessitates the stories orignal protagonist jumping out of nowhere to save his originally hated antagonists.

Yupper, nothing wrong at all with any of that. Carry on people, nothing to see here but old man yelling at clouds....

i do guess that makes sense huh

 

[sdrj77]

Weiss doesn't use his magic wall skill, because the higher he is off the ground the more mana it uses.

It would have lasted just long enough for him to land on it, then disappear immediately.

Then he'd be right back where he started, only now with no magic.

 

[legendaryswordsman]

Next chapter, HOW TO TRAIN YOUR DRAGON.

That dragon is indeed cooked that's no idea what they're getting for. I think it's silly for our MC to expect honesty when he won't be honest himself.

 

[StrangeDoor]

There is suspension of disbelief, and then there is intentionally sabotaging a character with an utterly contrived sequence of events for a plot development.

Last couple chapters sees two characters harried and cornered at the edge of a cliff. Weiss and temporary team member shows up and seemingly saves the day. Only they fail to notice one of supposedly wild beasts playing dead that without anyone being able to react, shoulder tackles someone off the cliff. The then completely exhausted and out of mana Weiss selflessly jumps off the cliff to save her, which in turn necessitates the stories orignal protagonist jumping out of nowhere to save his originally hated antagonists.

Yupper, nothing wrong at all with any of that. Carry on people, nothing to see here but old man yelling at clouds....

youre trying to act as if this is some massive plot hole but this is an extremely reasonable and logical timeline of events, especially when you factor in the fact that the author made it a very massive point that being off guard really screws over your awareness and overall combat prowess making killing you super easy, and that protag was explained to be out of mana so he couldnt have summoned the invisible wall in the first place which makes everything make proper sense

I get that at first glance it sounds kind of iffy but honestly there is absolutely no problem with the way this part of the story starts I think youre just overreacting

I would say stop being such a critic but that would imply that I'm trying to say that even though theres flaws with the story you should just ignore it since its more fun that way, but really there wasn't any plot holes or character sabotage in the story to begin with so I guess I'll tell you to stop being paranoid? idk

 

[Miserys_End]

youre trying to act as if this is some massive plot hole but this is an extremely reasonable and logical timeline of events, especially when you factor in the fact that the author made it a very massive point that being off guard really screws over your awareness and overall combat prowess making killing you super easy, and that protag was explained to be out of mana so he couldnt have summoned the invisible wall in the first place which makes everything make proper sense

I don't really think it's so much aplot hole as it is a hamfisted plot device to force the original stories protagonist to reconcile with Wiess. I also take issue with the whole selfless sacrifice route bullshit.

Not to say he should be an egocentric narcissist that only cares about his own well-being, but only the delusional or desperate jump off a cliff like that with no hope of recovery. And even with the sob story about not wanting to see her die like in the original story, only a fictional character would save her if it ment his likely death in trade.

I get that at first glance it sounds kind of iffy but honestly there is absolutely no problem with the way this part of the story starts I think youre just overreacting

O . o;
Maybe I am, or maybe I'm not. But again i think it is out of character for both the host Wiess and the transmigrator Wiess to see sacrificial suicide as a valid option for saving someone he has so little connection to. If it was member of his harem or even a close friend it would be more believable. But for a character who he felt sad watching die in a game? Not so much...

I would say stop being such a critic but that would imply that I'm trying to say that even though theres flaws with the story you should just ignore it since its more fun that way, but really there wasn't any plot holes or character sabotage in the story to begin with so I guess I'll tell you to stop being paranoid? idk

On that I strongly disagree. I'm willing to admit it's not the full throated idiocy of some of the more brain dead plots that anime and manga authors have produced of the last few decades, but Wiess just doesn't have the kind of connection that necessitates throwing himself off a cliff to save his rival's friend.

 

[manga_follow_75743857]

Thank you for the release Money Minting Scans.

Allen route unlocked.
Anyone else think of The Boys, Soldier Boy *incest scene?

 

[Flyingpantsu]

Allen already respected Weiss but him jumping to save Sharie at the expense of his life when she's just an antogonistic classmate and not even a friend like Carta probably scored a lot of brownie points.
Probably, if Duke was the one to fall, nobody would have cared or worried about it.

 

[Psychronia]

Allen's got you there.

 

[StrangeDoor]

I don't really think it's so much aplot hole as it is a hamfisted plot device to force the original stories protagonist to reconcile with Wiess. I also take issue with the whole selfless sacrifice route bullshit.

Not to say he should be an egocentric narcissist that only cares about his own well-being, but only the delusional or desperate jump off a cliff like that with no hope of recovery. And even with the sob story about not wanting to see her die like in the original story, only a fictional character would save her if it ment his likely death in trade.


O . o;
Maybe I am, or maybe I'm not. But again i think it is out of character for both the host Wiess and the transmigrator Wiess to see sacrificial suicide as a valid option for saving someone he has so little connection to. If it was member of his harem or even a close friend it would be more believable. But for a character who he felt sad watching die in a game? Not so much...

On that I strongly disagree. I'm willing to admit it's not the full throated idiocy of some of the more brain dead plots that anime and manga authors have produced of the last few decades, but Wiess just doesn't have the kind of connection that necessitates throwing himself off a cliff to save his rival's friend.

not only do you underestimate how selfless and kind people can be you also just completely undermine the unrequited friendship shiria and weiss have, like you do know weiss played and finished nobless as Alan before he was mysteriously reincarnated into his current body right that means he screwed around with and had lots fun times with Allen's childhood friend (not like that) through the game before she died horribly in the story, which is what caused him to feel sad watching her die in the first place. Its not like Shurely is some random NPC to him, shes the girl homie that dies a tragic unavoidable death mid story so it makes sense why he'd go to such lengths just to save her

 

[Miserys_End]

not only do you underestimate how selfless and kind people can be you also just completely undermine the unrequited friendship shiria and weiss have, like you do know weiss played and finished nobless as Alan before he was mysteriously reincarnated into his current body right that means he screwed around with and had lots fun times with Allen's childhood friend (not like that) through the game before she died horribly in the story, which is what caused him to feel sad watching her die in the first place. Its not like Shurely is some random NPC to him, shes the girl homie that dies a tragic unavoidable death mid story so it makes sense why he'd go to such lengths just to save her

O . o

Just how in depth do you think Japanese games go? Even a visual novel would lack the granularity for more then a montage of the main character's childhood or a few contextual scenes before moving on to the main plot of the story. Even with supplemental materials it wouldnt go that deep.

And while I know first hand that we as gamers can get attached to 2d characters as we play thrue a story, saving her life does Jack diddly squat if he dies in her place. Especially when there is so much more he wanted to accomplish.

So stand by my original assessment. There was too many occurrences and irregularities forced into that one battle to make it end with Wiess and Allen diving off a cliff.

 

[StrangeDoor]

O . o

Just how in depth do you think Japanese games go? Even a visual novel would lack the granularity for more then a montage of the main character's childhood or a few contextual scenes before moving on to the main plot of the story. Even with supplemental materials it wouldnt go that deep.

And while I know first hand that we as gamers can get attached to 2d characters as we play thrue a story, saving her life does Jack diddly squat if he dies in her place. Especially when there is so much more he wanted to accomplish.

So stand by my original assessment. There was too many occurrences and irregularities forced into that one battle to make it end with Wiess and Allen diving off a cliff.

seems like you're just the typa guy whos simply unable to fathom the idea of somebody being selfless enough to sacrifice themselves to save another so I guess trying to explain that to you is useless

 

[Miserys_End]

seems like you're just the typa guy whos simply unable to fathom the idea of somebody being selfless enough to sacrifice themselves to save another so I guess trying to explain that to you is useless

While true I wouldn't throw myself off a cliff to save a fellow student in the presentented scenario, I also have my doubts it would have been needed in the first place. That's because half my argument is based on the need, and the other half is how contrived the end result was.

Wiess has been training under Milk for years. It's to the point he would regularly spend days training himself without sleep to train his stamina and mana recovery. So even if he did push himself, he would have had the reserves to handle any surprises that pop up.

Which brings us to our second major point. If Wiess had enough time to put his teammate to sleep with hypnosis, he also would have had more then enough time to notice the beast not melting into black magical goo. One of his major goals was to make sure certain events didn't happen as they had in the orignal story during the three day class outing. So he wouldn't have been so careless as to allow such an anomaly to shoulder tackle someone off the cliff.

And lastly is Wiess selflessly jumping after the FMC of the orignal story with no hope of recovery. Not only do I find the need laughable, but the fact he didn't have enough mana left to anchor a magical wall to the nearby cliff face even more so. Especially because he knew this specific event was likely to occur because of his for knowledge of the orignal story.

So to me this turns what is portrayed as a selfless act into a forcefully contrived situation to put both Wiess and Allen at the bottom of the ravine.