Tengoku Daimakyou - Vol. 12 Ch. 69 - Izukunoeshima II 1

[Valle_reading_manga]

I wouldn’t be surprised if Meena is actually influenced by aliens.

Imo nothing in the story so far really touched aliens so I think that'd be rather weird, but we'll see.
I don't really see what aliens would stand to gain from creating a few dangerous monsters while destroying huge parts of human society. Nor why they would take such a complicated approach to do so. You'd think aliens are powerful enough to not have to rely on sabotaging some organization on Earth.

If the Hiruko mutation is some sort of genetic disease, then maybe the older Hiruko got it as a result of a mutation or something. But even if there's something supernatural behind it, I don't think it's of extraterrestrial origin. Or well, at most, the Hiruko disease might be from space, but the overall events don't really seem like they're the result of an intelligent lifeform's actions.

And if we go by the story thus far, while the Hiruko might have superhuman abilities, they don't seem suitable for scenarios outside of Earth at all. Introducing aliens now, when humanity is already in shambles, would basically make them (the aliens) an unbeatable force. And in turn, make our main characters and previous plot points pretty much obsolete.
Or well, that's how I see it anyways.

 

[Cyrra]

I mean, you don't really know what their aim for the AI was, but with their idea of creating a new world order along with their genetically modified humans, those are steps I'd deem in line with that goal.
When I said own agenda I meant Meena "betraying" Takehara academy's intentions. I'm not saying that didn't happen nonetheless, since their plan didn't go as expected nor has the past been fully explored yet, but I don't think the examples stated are indicative of anything in that regard.

What? They clearly stated they had no intention to teach the children about sexuality or the differences between the sexes for their ideal society and we saw Meena was doing it on its own behind their backs. It was even covering it all up by editing surveillance tapes and opening doors for them they shouldn't have had access to. Additionally, Meena was having them do upgrades to it that they didn't even understand were for.

 

[tototototoo]

Imo nothing in the story so far really touched aliens so I think that'd be rather weird, but we'll see.
I don't really see what aliens would stand to gain from creating a few dangerous monsters while destroying huge parts of human society. Nor why they would take such a complicated approach to do so. You'd think aliens are powerful enough to not have to rely on sabotaging some organization on Earth.

If the Hiruko mutation is some sort of genetic disease, then maybe the older Hiruko got it as a result of a mutation or something. But even if there's something supernatural behind it, I don't think it's of extraterrestrial origin. Or well, at most, the Hiruko disease might be from space, but the overall events don't really seem like they're the result of an intelligent lifeform's actions.

And if we go by the story thus far, while the Hiruko might have superhuman abilities, they don't seem suitable for scenarios outside of Earth at all. Introducing aliens now, when humanity is already in shambles, would basically make them (the aliens) an unbeatable force. And in turn, make our main characters and previous plot points pretty much obsolete.
Or well, that's how I see it anyways.

That’s actually not completely true. One example I can think of is seed pig 11 talking about the origin perhaps being alien, so the thought has been entertained in universe at the very least.

 

[SpunkyDragon]

No one. That's just the power of the girl with the director. Lets her see stuff. But she'll turn into a hiruko later, maybe that one from early on idk.

Quick summary: two kids and their group are leftovers of that organization. They are in the past. Black haired girl is the director with her brain transplanted. She's going to an island to figure out what the deal with the monsters is.

She is the one who later showed up with male mc maru and then died early on.

The robot is definitely the work of robin, who is going around searching for various sociopathic ways to revive his sister, like hiruko or brain transplants. It will probably end with him turning her into a hiruko and her killing him.

Also the male mc is definitely going to get the female mc pregnant, then die in the end. She might die after giving birth too and it'll just be their kid left and that's what the story will close out on.

Everything okay except that last part.
Why are y'all obsessed with getting Kiruko pregnant? You said the same thing when Robin assaulted her.

 

[Valle_reading_manga]

What? They clearly stated they had no intention to teach the children about sexuality or the differences between the sexes for their ideal society and we saw Meena was doing it on its own behind their backs. It was even covering it all up by editing surveillance tapes and opening doors for them they shouldn't have had access to. Additionally, Meena was having them do upgrades to it that they didn't even understand were for.

Spoiler: A lot of yapping

Well, you'd have to teach them about sexuality though, unless you want them to go extinct right away
And Meena probably was aware of the impending downfall of their heaven, so preparing for the following events doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
Anyway, it comes down to what exactly they were "expecting" of the AI (what they optimized it for):
Make their plan succeed? Simply assist them? Follow orders only?
And then it comes down to your own interpretation anyway.
As I see it, Meena might've been rather independent but I don't think its actions were meant to betray its creators' intentions. One important aspect in that regard (as I see it) might be, that even within the academy itself, the leading figures weren't exactly of the same opinion. And didn't have equal privileges either. Maybe there was an opposition against the director and Meena sided with them.
Additionally, Meena might've known more than the folks at the academy and therefore deemed certain actions necessary/desirable. I think especially towards the downfall of the academy, Meena was aware (to some extent) in advance but didn't alert the staff (for whatever reason) and thus acted in secret.
Or well, I say that but Meena might've valued "her children" over "establishing a new world order". Afaik now, we don't really know what the purpose of the Hiruko was in that plan. So it's hard to judge whether that was (dis)advantageous for their plan.
Those white soldiers were treated like mere tools, so if the children raised at the academy had the same fate, I could see her betraying them.
Eventually expelling the children seemingly was part of their plan though, and while (especially the director, at times) didn't seem to care about them too much, (a lot of) the other members certainly did.

TL;DR while I agree that Meena didn't always act in line with the academy, I still think it's too early to judge whether that necessarily means sabotaging "the plan"/betraying the academy.
As for them being unable to grasp certain upgrades' purpose, that could be hinting at Meena having outsmarted humans. Apparently, that's called technological singularity, but I think you see this term mostly used by AI bros these days. Since the consequences of such a scenario are subject to speculation, this could mean pretty much anything but if anything it (once again) confirms the highly advanced technological state of humanity pre-catastrophe.
I had to go back to remember what actually started this convo, but I don't think Meena is influenced by a third party nor that it intentionally created the Hiruko disease.

---

In any case, the next chapters will probably bring light to (some of) those questions.

 

[tototototoo]

Spoiler: A lot of yapping

Well, you'd have to teach them about sexuality though, unless you want them to go extinct right away
And Meena probably was aware of the impending downfall of their heaven, so preparing for the following events doesn't seem unreasonable to me.
Anyway, it comes down to what exactly they were "expecting" of the AI (what they optimized it for):
Make their plan succeed? Simply assist them? Follow orders only?
And then it comes down to your own interpretation anyway.
As I see it, Meena might've been rather independent but I don't think its actions were meant to betray its creators' intentions. One important aspect in that regard (as I see it) might be, that even within the academy itself, the leading figures weren't exactly of the same opinion. And didn't have equal privileges either. Maybe there was an opposition against the director and Meena sided with them.
Additionally, Meena might've known more than the folks at the academy and therefore deemed certain actions necessary/desirable. I think especially towards the downfall of the academy, Meena was aware (to some extent) in advance but didn't alert the staff (for whatever reason) and thus acted in secret.
Or well, I say that but Meena might've valued "her children" over "establishing a new world order". Afaik now, we don't really know what the purpose of the Hiruko was in that plan. So it's hard to judge whether that was (dis)advantageous for their plan.
Those white soldiers were treated like mere tools, so if the children raised at the academy had the same fate, I could see her betraying them.
Eventually expelling the children seemingly was part of their plan though, and while (especially the director, at times) didn't seem to care about them too much, (a lot of) the other members certainly did.

TL;DR while I agree that Meena didn't always act in line with the academy, I still think it's too early to judge whether that necessarily means sabotaging "the plan"/betraying the academy.
As for them being unable to grasp certain upgrades' purpose, that could be hinting at Meena having outsmarted humans. Apparently, that's called technological singularity, but I think you see this term mostly used by AI bros these days. Since the consequences of such a scenario are subject to speculation, this could mean pretty much anything but if anything it (once again) confirms the highly advanced technological state of humanity pre-catastrophe.
I had to go back to remember what actually started this convo, but I don't think Meena is influenced by a third party nor that it intentionally created the Hiruko disease.

---

In any case, the next chapters will probably bring light to (some of) those questions.

Can I ask, considering you don’t believe in a third party influencing Mina and I assume also the hiruko disease, what do you think the ancient hiruko is and what it’s origins are?

 

[coyote_vdb]

There could be a twist where Meena became sentient to the point where she followed her own agenda or was influenced/controlled by a third party (/aliens/whatever) but I don't think so: There's no real motive (that I can think of) nor has the story hinted at anything in that regard up until now, from what I can tell.

There is a suspicion that Meena manipulated the surveillance cameras, allowing Tokio do go see Kona and to visit the nursery. And that would meen it did have a specific agenda, that is yet to be discovered, maybe one of the mysteries supposedly uncovered in the next chapter.
EDIT: Saw your subsequent posts, I agree we don't know enough to judge what was the goal of Meena's pampering.

 

[GIN_XD123]

Quero só ver essas tais respostas

 

[savageanman]

perma indentured servitude as a punishment is something private prison industry would really love to have

 

[soragranda]

I think the fact there are others out there capable of brain transplantation is more significant than it may seem. Could this potentially be related to Robin

---

Damn, forced to slave away for even longer than your lifetime sure doesn't sound better than death.
Not that I'm a supporter of the death penalty but I think working a normal human's lifespan should suffice.
Additionally, brain transplantation probably wouldn't be cheap and since the robots would be quite limited in their ability for safety reasons, this might not even be worth it from an economical point of view.

---

Nata wondering what she did to deserve a punishment such as being turned into a robot is quite sad, considering it actually saved her from the hiruko disease.

---

Seeing the disease transform a friend with your own eyes must be horrible

runs straight to the zombie

---

Not sure if revealing (almost) all mysteries in the next chapter is something positive, but I'm looking forward to it.

They could make the robot-human brain work until it pays his transplantation and passing at least 100 years of work...

 

[Valle_reading_manga]

Can I ask, considering you don’t believe in a third party influencing Mina and I assume also the hiruko disease, what do you think the ancient hiruko is and what it’s origins are?

Tbh, it's quite hard to say whether the ancient Hiruko even is the same as the modern ones. Yes, it did trigger Maru's Hiruko sense, but (assuming it's some sort of disease) does that mean they're the exact same or could they simply be similar?
Considering incest seems to happen in that family a lot (at least recently), if they did so in the past, that could hint at the Hiruko being a mutant/having some sort of genetic disease/disorder.
That'd still be my top guess, followed by some external source of the disease.
After all, the Hiruko was just locked away somewhere in nowhere for ages. Doesn't seem like an external actor would stand to gain much from it.

 

[Turkeyjerkey]

Everything okay except that last part.
Why are y'all obsessed with getting Kiruko pregnant? You said the same thing when Robin assaulted her.

I'm not. But if you reread the manga it comes up over and over again. Author probably trying to convey some theme about the beautiful but fleeting nature of life. So they compress the timescale to accentuate it by having characters fall in love and die young, but have kids who carry forward.

Maru, the freezing baby, and the hotel girl are all products of pairings between the first generation of kids, with their parents all being dead now. Probably some others I'm forgetting. It's not that I want it to happen, but at this point I'd be shocked if it didn't given the series' penchant for planting and payoff.

 

[dghirsh]

Can someone tell me if we've ever learned about Izukunoeshima before? Im not recalling this island or having ever heard of it, but clearly its important as it will "give us answers" and access to Mina.

 

[tototototoo]

Can someone tell me if we've ever learned about Izukunoeshima before? Im not recalling this island or having ever heard of it, but clearly its important as it will "give us answers" and access to Mina.

It’s the island the hiruko school was located on.

 

[BigGuyForUUUU2012]

"We need a more ethical alternative to the death penalty. Any ideas?"

Guy putting down a dog-eared copy of I Have No Mouth and I Must Scream: Okay this is gonna sound crazy, but hear me out...

"I've been watching a lot of warhammer 40k videos, I got an awesome idea"

 

[therealMaru]

it should be noted that Meena was the first to refer to the children of the nursery as Hiruko

 

[SSDCZX]

i can't believe it's the same crazy old lady

 

[dghirsh]

It’s the island the hiruko school was located on.

Woah... thats huge. Wish I picked up on that while reading the chapter.

Feels like a very sudden transition back to the island. Hopefully its executed well!

 

[Devil_May]

Maru, the freezing baby, and the hotel girl are all products of pairings between the first generation of kids

I think freezing baby's father was a human man, slave 11 I think in that town that was ruled by women. Haven't read watched that part in a while but I remember him being the father. The mothers were the special kids who were lovers, so I doubt they could produce a kid just the two of them. But who knows maybe one of them had male genitalia like some of the other facility kids.

 

[tototototoo]

I think freezing baby's father was a human man, slave 11 I think in that town that was ruled by women. Haven't read watched that part in a while but I remember him being the father. The mothers were the special kids who were lovers, so I doubt they could produce a kid just the two of them. But who knows maybe one of them had male genitalia like some of the other facility kids.

Nanaki and Iwa used Juuichi (the seed pig) to conceive a child, so they both were probably female as they wouldn’t have needed him if one of them was a true hermaphrodite. Though we aren’t 100% sure if say, Michika, a hiruko child that is confirmed to have both sets of genitalia, is both able to impregnate and become pregnant and thus a true hermaphrodite as opposed to intersex which is something that also naturally occurs in humans.