The Flower That Was Bloomed by a Cloud

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Jan 20, 2020
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@cinic
Dowun also has room to grow when it comes to interpersonal skills, but I agree that Hong Lyon is the one that needs to grow stronger because she is just pulling him down with her antics. Her trying to make moves now might be a sign of her finally growing and she might finally be able to support Dowun instead of dragging him down. But this is just how I view it, knowing the intended audience this has a high chance of going completely different. At the end she and Dowun are teenagers which is why I still have hope for their future.
About the tortures and violence, I think the author did establish in the beginning that this was a cold and cruel place but some bithces just ignored that shit and still want Baek han because he is cute or some shit. For me he is a perfect example of a failure, first he fails in his sole duty in protecting the crown prince, then he easily and quickly changes his loyalty to Hong Lyon. After that he even starts to flirt with an engaged 16 y old when his duty is to solely protect her. I am also pissed about her flirting with Baek han, but so far only Baek han deserves the guillotine for being such a sissy bitch pedo failure.
As I said before I hope Dowun pulls through, stops with his "transactional relationship" bullshit, gets stronger and comes out on top because he deserves it after all the work he has done carrying Lyon and his entire fucking clan.
 
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@fineokden
I understand the fact that they are teenagers, but bro, his being working his ass off even better that some of the best husbands out there and she is just too ungrateful and unloyal, I can't justify her as a teenager for having such malice and evilness inside her, she has 0% empathy for guy, and is knelling over the other, I feel it, I don't empathise with characters, but I felt dowun's pain, first time it happens reading a story or watching something , reason why I can't just forget this manwha.
IMO, neither princess would be worthy of skipping the guillotine, she has already done too much pain to a real good soul of a great man, and she is beyond repair.
I felt his betrayal, I haven't been betrayed by a girlfriend but for me that was a #MeToo male version, it was just so quickly, so harsh, so unfair , so real that I felt for him.
Baek is a scumbag , if you analyze the story you realize he is clearly a pedo, he was in love with princess first chapter, and I will bet things saying she was around 9-12 and he was 18-24, the guy is clearly hateable, he has just something that makes me hate him, also the fact he is a fucking traitor as you said, instead of him being a man and accepting his destiny, he changed his mind after talking to a granny he doesn't even know.
I have commented also, I deleted the comments because I though I was over this and I was getting constantly banned for arguing with some "users" with no sense of humor, but baek I has being saved by plot at least 4 times:
- Fire saving princess
-River saving kid
-Arrow saving prince
-Jail execution
If you use the physics and logic of river drowing , distance... , probabilities, you will find that all his escape death and severe injuries probabilities were nearly 0%.
to be honest when princess in one of the sved by plots (river one, the most illogical one), strech his arm, you think wtf, the guy was holding a kid, with a heavy armor ,water going up to speeds of 15,84 milles per hour and a distance of something like 1,5 meters, and guy was just saved by holding princess arm, idk, when I saw the scene I was thinking, is this the fantastics 4 with rubberman and rubberwoman...
It just makes me dislike him so much, you couldn't even imagine.
IS NOT ENOUGH TO WRITE IT , AUTHORS NEED TO SHOW THE CRUEL AND VIOLENT WORLD, THIS IS THE ONLY WAY.
 
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Messages
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@cinic
I agree, but she wouldn't have been flirting with Baek if Dowun didn't make his "transactional relationship" bullshit, which he did when he was a kid (probably never been in love) and which is why I think that if they stop misunderstanding each other then it will work out in the end. I remember thinking like you when I was reading chapter 40 something and up, but she has yet to outright betray him. If she does then I fully agree that the guillotine is a valid consequence seeing that up until now Dowun has been strictly Loyal.
 
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Mar 15, 2020
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@fineokden
There hasn't been any proper dialogue as to why she is so in love with baek,I seriously don't understand.
If my girlfriend or lover ask me to fool around other women,I would at least think why is she saying that...,but I felt dowun's word were just the free ticket she desperately was looking for to fool around and be unloyal.
Is not just flirting, is that he is completely forgetting about him.
He is allying with dowun brother,he is putting more of baek lovers into her army.
And even if it was a transactional relationship,if she was smart enough she would have realized nobody does what he did with a poor childless kid like her.
Why did he chose hong lyon,princess sister was willing to form alliance with Dowun,if he picked sister,his goal would have been much easier.
SHE HASN'T EVEN PROCESSED WHY DID HE CHOSE HER.
I mean maybe is an author mistake,but it doesn't make sense he chose hong Lyon.
My theory is this:
Dowun knew Hong lyon from before the fire accident,maybe she didn't know him,but he did,and for x reason he wanted to protected her.
He knows she is retarded,and if she tells her to be lovers she would fucked up things as she always does.
That would explain his background,because honestly it doesn't make sense he chosed hong Lyon instead of sister,when all his family wanted sister and dowun union and the road was easier than with hong lyon,who was kingdom's trash and useless.
Glad to have arguments with someone who isn't a NPC saying dowun bad baek good.
 
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@cinic Yeah, I am also curious as to what really lies behind Dowun's choices.
I don't think that Lyon is very in love with Baek, she has been acting out of line but in my opinion she doesn't seem to act out of love. I hope at least that it is one sided love from Baek.
As you said, she hasn't really processed that Dowun treats her special, I think it is because she thinks that he sees her as only a tool. From my experience reading this it seems that Dowun is way too loyal toward Lyon for him to see her as just a tool, especially the part where he even wanted the other princess as far away from Lyon as possible so that there was no chance of her harming Lyon. So I think that if she tries to understand Dowun better she will stop acting foolishly.
Your theory is plausible, he must see something special in her to invest this much effort. I hope that yours and my observations of Dowun are correct and the author doesn't surprise us with some "Dowun is emotionless psychopath" bullshit, but it doesn't seem to be goin that way so I'm hopeful for now.
I will keep reading this because I still have hope that the author treats Dowun properly and that Lyon grows, I also hope that she doesn't betray him and instead starts to support him. But I might be too optimistic and I will try to make sure that my expectations are not too high so that I don't get too disappointed.
I am also glad to talk with someone likeminded.
 
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Mar 15, 2020
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133
@fineokden
Nothing to argue,was a good post to read,I will reconsider my thoughts about Hong lyon deeper and will come like 20/25 chapters later to see if they were any changes.
Have a good day.
 
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Oct 14, 2019
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i stopped reading this like 20-30 chapters ago cause i wanted to come back to a story which i could decipher the male lead. is it dowon? is it baek han? still... nobody freaking knows 😩 i have a lot to catch up on but ima be back in like 10 more chapters :')
 
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@cinic @fineokden Hi, so I just read your discussion because I found it interesting, and I just have to ask... When one of you said Dowun does not need to change at all...
Putting the mc aside since you say the mc is just being a teenage girl who just wants love, then how about the brother? What do you have to say for that? Was there nothing wrong with him easily abandoning his brother for the sake of his goal? He easily called his brother a criminal knowing that the lil bro was innocent. He didn't even look back at his bro... he completely treated him like a criminal. I am seeing you guys defending him and I just have to ask... how did you feel seeing that scene of him abandoning his brother who looked up to him? Do you think it was understandable? Did that not bother you at all? And will you still say that Dowun isn't cold? Is it alright to put your goal over the people who loves you and just toss them away once they are not useful? Do you still think he doesn't need to change? Also when one of you said you felt dowun's pain, did he not hurt others?

Edit: Please don't take my comment the wrong way. I genuinely wanna know your thoughts and how you felt towards this heartbreaking scene (if it was to you). My apologies if my comment comes out rude, you don't have to answer if you don't want to.
 
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@CardiBSlays I don't mind, your question didn't come off as rude. As for the answer:
The way Dowun treated his brother was definitively cold, but a necessary cold in my opinion. I think that he did what he deemed the best for both his clan and his brother. By having him take responsibility and even saying that Do Gyeol should accept death if necessary, I believe he was trying to push his brother away from the palace while also securing the clans power. The way I see it, Dowun did it with good intention because he thinks that his brother isn't fit for the palace which he even says to Do Gyeol later on. That is why I don't think that he abandoned or betrayed his brother, he just made him take responsibility for slipping up, something that can be fatal and since Do Gyeol was careless it is probably better for him to stay away form the palace.
Dowun is cold, but the vibes I'm getting is that he is using it as a self defense mechanism, something that would be common and very useful in this setting. That's why I think he is consciously trying to suppress his emotions so that he can make rational decisions, decisions that will help him survive and gain power for his clan. We have yet to now the reason why he strives for power but I don't think it is for some selfish reason but more with the way he was raised and the responsibilities weighing on his shoulders.
I also stated that I do believe that he has room to grow, but at the moment it is Lyon that is dragging him down by going against him. He has hurt others but he has never outright betrayed someone, Lyon on the other hand is flirting with Baek Han which in my opinion edging towards betrayal. It is partly Dowun fault for being a dumbass and making a "transactional relationship", but they are still engaged and Lyon is just ruining it for both of them at the moment by being seen flirting with Baek Han and being hostile against Dowun. This in my opinion is unfair to Dowun since he has stayed loyal and upheld his part of the agreement so far while she has been going all out rebellious and not cooperating.
At the end of it all I just hope that she stops acting up, he learns to trust and open up to people and that everything works out with Dowun, hopefully together with Lyon, coming out on top.
 
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@fineokden Oh ok. Thanks for answering~ ❤️ You made out some good points. I just hope it’s true rather than just a assumption. We need his point of view ASAP.
 
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@CardiBSlays
I mean my opinion is similar to @fineokden
Remember, it's old chinese times, with honor,loyalty,senpukku,betrayings,dynasty wars,family wars.
If author made clear that this was meant to be a historical story, it should be that way...
Imo I find Dowun character to be the most realistic one, all this based on the historical time this story is happening, it's not the same 12th century than 21th century.
While I find some of Dowun action to be cold and hard,I still find them understandable (I giving him a moment of doubt and I also want to know his past story before judging him), timing of his actions were correctly done and he even explained why he did what he did, it's not like there is some mystery about his actions, the mystery is why he chosed princess, people are saying without princess Dowun is useless, and this is utterly false, we know princess sister was and still is interested in marrying Dowun, the question is, why did he chosed princess, path was easier and more clear with princess sister, I hope author doesn't forget this details he added and explain it instead of "magically" forgetting it.
Author is making Dowun look like the bad guy, but who told brother to messed up everything when he was with sister princess???Did he pressured princess to be the queen????, it's easier to be princess, she hides the stick while everything Dowun does always betterment her and she thinks of him as if he was the antichrist, I just can't find any logic in her being so angry at him.
He has been living his whole life just for her, she is what he did, what she is now is all thanks to Dowun, none of her actions has been created by her, the only action created by her, was saving a bodyguard who isn't fullfying his role and creating rumors of Dowun being a cuck while she was staying with bodyguard in wooden house.
He has also remained faithful to her, we haven't seen him being sexually unloyal to her, but she is quickly forgetting about him like if he didn't even exist and flirting with bodyguard (she was already interested in him, don't know why she was so interested in him and not in Dowun) the second after Dowun told her he doesn't mind her being with other men (clearly he was lying, still don't know why...)she quickly runs into bodyguard arms, however I want to see if she changes, to analyze the character overall. (and yes, it was only supposed to ba a political engagement, but she could have really tried to ask him or understand why he was like he is, heck she hasn't even asked him once about his life..., meanwhile with bodyguard the second day he was already telling his drama story to make users feel sorry for him).
What I'm not liking and this is one of the few disagreement I had with the other user (if I understood what he said correctly...), is him changing, he/she told me Dowun still had a gap of improvement as a character, but I'm feeling he is just changing his essence as a character, he is trying too hard to fit princess likings, while imo and due to all he has done and helped her, it should be otherwise, or at least she should change more than him, yes maybe he could trust people more, but I hope it doesn't affects his decisions and charisma as a character.
The only thing I find bad is the lack of understanding and empathy the characters have with dowun (brother,princess...), they clearly don't understand why he did what he did and they judge him easily and unfairly, but this is what makes this story so real and human.
Once you understand Dowun actions and why he did he hurt others, ( it was a yes/no hurting , it was just what was need to be done, many soldiers don't like to kill, but they have too,they might be most of them deshumanized, but that doesn't mean they don't feel or get hurt), you could clearly see the pain Dowun is having with princess romantic affairs and in general with life, while he hurts others I understand him (he clearly does care about his people, he just doesn't know how to express it or is unable due to the circumstances), I also think , if the story wasn't so hidden with details and was analyzed carefully chapter by chapter, most of the opinions lot of users have would have changed.
As I said to fineokden,glad I was able to talk to someone so openminded and willing to disscuss instead of unllogically critize.
 
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@Cinic
While what you say about it being a historical time and Dowun being realistic is true. However, it being in historical times does not make what he has done right. Everything Dowun has done is logical, but he needs more than just logic. The problem that lies in Dowun is that he is missing a heart. While it’s good to have a goal, it is not good to throw away your heart and take the people who loves you for granted. He should not have treated his brother like that nor the mc. He was trampling over their feelings without knowing it. The brother was young at that time and was deceived by the mc’s sister. He didn’t know any better. He thought he was helping his brother and the mc. Dowun should not have treated his brother coldly like that even if it was the lil bro’s fault bc that is his brother. He was wrong for that PeriodT. I would like to see his point of view tho to see how he had the heart to do that. I honestly understand why the mc dislikes him bc the deeds he has committed is point blank cruel. He will legit do anything for his goal and that’s just not cool... That shouldn’t be something we should be alright with. He does need character improvement. He needs a heart. Also, I believe the author never changed his character. To me his character has always been like that. His character is that of a person that will do anything for his goal without a heart. So I have to disagree with your opinion, but I still respect your opinion.

I also like having polite discussions/arguments. Thanks for answering~ 😘
 
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@CardiBSlays
A sheep doesn't survive surrounded by wolves,I think that the only reason that makes what he has done right is just the fact that this is historical, he is acting as how the important figures acted, I don't really know a lot about china or Asian history, but the few things I know and most of people know doesn't make it look like a really wonderful place...
We are going to do something, you tell how was he supposed to act and if I can I will refute why it wouldn't be a good idea, I ngl, I really think that he is missing a heart to, but really it's not like I'm the most emotional person either, so maybe my way of thinking just understands why he did those things, you tell me how he was supposed to make a poor and for her family useless person ascend into power, this with her father santa claus who was a dickhead, her brother the sadistic bully who had his best dog ready to defend him (bodyguard) , her princess who is a snake , the country who doesn't considered her worthy of being an empress, the maids who at the beginning of the story were treating her like trash, old grandma who is princess sister ally , should I continue...
Yes it's true the author never changed his character, I just thinking that changing his character is just destroying his character and his personality, to be honest he might need some heart, but he is nearly a perfectly made character, very human himself, he has his struggles, his worries, he can even be anxious or stressed by his own let's call it for the moment cowardice".
I understand why she is mad to him (she hasn't really analyze everything), what I don't understand is why she hasn't realize she really is a hypocrite, she can't be the bad character, but she needs a bad character who do everything just for her to criticize him.
Imagine you are in school, there are 2 people doing a project ( a team of two) , one is doing all the work (he at least understand what they are supposed to do) with the help of a paid teacher (not morally correct, I just said to represent Dowun heartless actions), and the other person doesn't do anything, firstly because that person isn't qualified enough to help the team.
They give the project to the teacher, the teacher put them a 10, the person who actually did something has been work as a mad dog and anxious and nervous about the limit dates, calendar..., meanwhile the person who didn't do nothing has been having an easy time.
Well now imagine that person who not only doesn't do anything, but she talks to her/his friends about how you have been paying a teacher for help and how unmoral his actions were, she/he also said he is a bad person, but hey, she doesn't reject the 10, she gladly accepts the fact that his partner has been doing all the stuff and has lost life spam with all the accumulated stress.
This is why I can't support princess right now, she is hiding the stick meanwhile Dowun is doing everything, she is the good cop and he is the bad cop.
However I must say brother actions are justifiable, he really is the only one I can understand the hate he has with Dowun (partially I understand it at least...), what I can't understand is why he doesn't hate princess, she could have save him too if she stopped Dowun when he was about to talk to emperor and ask for him to punish his brother, but she is just a coward and now she has the guts to criticize Dowun.
She is one of the biggest hypocrite I have ever seen in any movie,book or whatever, she is a big big hypocrite, I can understand some people defending some character, but princess, as she is now, I can't .
1)She accepted to be empress => criticize Dowun for making her empress in such a way
2)She "was madly in love with Dowun" => was always thinking about bodyguard, just because he saved her once.
3)She didn't like how Dowun treated her brother => still didn't stop Dowun, it was something that helped her, so she shut up but years later she is still remembering it as if she was the victim, well all this was done for and only for her, and neither she refused any of the times dowun did something, why? , because it benefits her and deep inside she knows it and has the guts to criticize him as if she was some kind of saint, at least he acted, seriously she is a spineless coward.
4)She is always aggressive with Dowun => while he is generally quite calm with her, why does she, not brother, not bodyguard, why DOES SHE HATE HIM, what has he done so badly to her to make her hate him, he has always helped her, I don't care if it was for the clan ( we still don't know if this is a lie, Dowun I think has been lying all the time...), it is a fact that EVERYTHING DOWUN HAS DONE HAS BENEFIT HER, EVERYTHING.
5)It's not his goal, it is their goal, they agreed they had a common objective, if it's his goal we can agree then that princess is like a parasite sucking the blood and hard work of Dowun..., can we agree then... if it was his goal, Dowun should be the solely emperor and princess should be just a normal person...that way people who worked and did everything are the only ones who receive all the prizes..., I mean I think that would be fair and good heart.
Sorry if some parts of my text are quite messy or could be interpreted as aggressive.
You are welcome, I'm patiently waiting for your answer.
 
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@Cinic
Whoa lol you wrote a lot. I’m glad to see you as passionate as I am 😆. Ok, so does he have to be a sheep in order to have a heart? I’m not saying he should be very emotional or think with his heart rather than his head. I am saying that he has to balance the two. He has to be smart about his decision while also thinking about how his decisions will affect the people who loves him (I would say he loves but i’m not sure yet bc if he loves his brother no way would he have did him like that. That’s why I need his POV to see what he was thinking bc that was just extremely cruel). He is disregarding the affect that it would have on them, which will be his downfall (and the downfall is already starting as you can see).

Ok so, I’m not going to say how he should have responded bc idk tbh all I know is that he should not have looked at his brother so coldy, nor should he have casually call his brother a “criminal”. The lil bro couldn’t going avoid punishment but the at least Dowun could have done was comfort the brother. I honestly see no harm in just hugging the bro bc that is his brother, but who knows, they may say Dowun is collaborating with the lil bro just bc he hugged him bc that’s how paranoid the people were back then LOL. He made sure to lessen his brother’s punishment so it won’t be to death so I am giving him a benefit of the doubt which is why I am desperate for his POV. So—

. . . You mind if we talk on discord? LMAO bc i have a lot to say and I see you do too.
And I don’t feel like typing it 😭😭😭. Add me and tell me you cinic from mangadex.
@fineokden You too.
I know I’m being extra but I just loving the debate i’m having with y’all 🥰 I understand if you don’t want to.
 
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Asli sumpah, ratunya goblok. Kezel w liat nya. I mean I understand her feeling. Dan Dowon juga cold hearted gitu. Tapi tolonglah thor, bagusin dikit jalan ceritanya.. Hikss.. Kalau gini ceritanya Dowon bakal kena treason ntar.... 😭😭😭
 
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Feb 8, 2020
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Started good and then female lead just did the dumbest thing ever
Selling couple's earrings for steam bun
 
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Aug 19, 2020
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As I indulge myself to read the comments some would say that it's a good Manhua at the same time Bad something about FMC being dumb.
 

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