The Politics Megathread

[Halo]

Yeah, imagine Conservatives bitching non-stop for the next few years.

 

[BestBoy]

@Tamerlane I think a Biden win is considerably less concerning than a Trump win.

 

[Tamerlane]

@Bestboy
I don't know for certain. It depends on if Biden had committed fraud and gotten away with it, or if the right perceives him to have gotten away with it, then it will probably fracture the nation more, especially if he does nothing about the growing power of Google and other tech giants, and if he removes things like the ban on critical race theory, which will only serve to disenfranchise people even more and sew division. I'd also be concerned more in terms of foreign policy in that I don't think America wants another war in the Middle East, which establishment politicians tend to be in favor of, and the fact Biden has some dubious connections to China means we probably won't be moving off of it in the near future.

Trump's mostly divisive in his rhetoric and persona, and then how the media represents him, but I don't think any of his actual policies have sewn much in the way of division, it is instead how people have reacted to him that has. It's mostly the issue that's consistent that happened when Obama was elected that everyone wants to paint their political opponent as the anti-Christ or as literally Hitler, which is not a healthy mindset to have I don't think.
@Halo
You say that, but be careful for what you wish for, because the difference between the radical left and radical right is that the radical right most likely has guns. And something tells me that if they feel the system is corrupt, you won't get the armchair activism on social media, which is a scary thought.

Also, that's the same logic that got trump into office in 2016, so trying to out-smug one another and piss each other off probably is a bad idea, especially in such a divided country.

 

[Richman]

If you were placed in the Weimer Republic, Aughust 19, 1934, you wouldn't falsify the vote that put him as President?

Yes, but people would still have voted for him, nobody could have possibly predicted that Hitler would go and commit all of those crimes. Remember that 1) Hitler convinced people to vote for him through his campaign when Germany was very vulnerable and 2) most of the German people were indoctrinated to praise him and die for him, the Hitler Youth being the biggest example. They didn't even think what they were doing was wrong or had any knowledge of the atrocities happening in the first place. (Remember that not even other countries new about the camps until after they started invading Germany)
At that point it was too late for diplomacy, so more extreme methods had to be used.

The U.S.A. wasn't at that point, and since Trump lost, we'll never get to see that future (which of course, most of us are glad for). It is honestly difficult for me to find an answer...
I don't think comitting electoral fraud would be the right option, I don't think the impeachment was a waste, other countries would call out the U.S. if it attempted to do something.

 

[Tamerlane]

@BrapEbony

Hitler was never elected Chancellor of Germany. He only got at most 33% of the vote, and was only given the rank via appointment as a means of appeasement and trying to curtail and pacify him. Needless to say it didn't work as after the burning of the Reichstag which he blamed on the Jewish people, he was able to pass the Enabling Act which let him become Fuher of Germany.

@Richman

Trump is obviously nowhere near Hitler considering he decentralized power during the COVID pandemic to give the states more power, as he had to do given the 10th Amendment, and he has not advocated for the genocide, extermination, mass imprisonment, etc. of any ethnic group for merely being a part of that ethnic group, nor does he believe in any ethnic or racial superiority as far as I can discern. It's slander because calling the political opponents "Hitler" or associating them in any way with the Nazis gets people's blood boiling because they're a "boogeyman" that everyone can agree was terrible.

 

[Chrona]

@Tamerlane

Given the left saw Trump as illegitimate previous because he did not get the popular vote, it is likely that if the Supreme Court decision in his favor or the electoral college going against the popular vote with faithless electors would go in his favor, the left would similarly feel disenfranchised and protest the result, seeing similar radicalization to that under Trump's past term.

I don't see how this would be meaningfully different, if anything, it's kind of fucked up that a Trump loss is framed as positive because Antifa and co. wiill stop burning down cities and looting businesses.

 

[Tamerlane]

@Chrona Yeah, no, they're not going to stop with a Biden presidency. Antifa, rioters, etc. are satisfied with appeasement and parts of their doctrine believe the entire system needs to go completely in order for them to win. If anything, there's a risk that Biden might enable them given he hasn't been as willing to condemn them as Trump has.

 

[BrapEbony]

@Tamerlane
He was appointed Chancelor, but he was voted into the position of President with 90% majority on August 19, 1934. This is a basic historical fact for anyone who passed AP World History.

@Richman

Yes, but people would still have voted for him, nobody could have possibly predicted that Hitler would go and commit all of those crimes.

That's not the point. For the sake of this question, you are assuming the mindset of someone who is aware of Hitler and what Hitler did. If Hitler were on the rise to power nowadays and you knew he was going to be Hitler, what would be the moral thing to do? Just let him win the election or roll over?

 

[Halo]

@Tamerlane I like how you're saying that radical right is more likely to commit domestic terrorism. 😂
But sure, I'll take gun control reforms, I guess.

 

[BestBoy]

@Tamerlane

The loudest on the right are going to say Biden cheated even if it's proved he didn't. And if Trump wins, they'll say he beat a cheater. So it doesn't really matter who wins in regards to accusations towards Biden. In contrast, a win for Trump through the SC means re-electing someone even though he lost the PV and EV.

Hasn't Biden explicitly stated support for a trade agreement that puts pressure on China?

As for Trump, his economic policies aren't looked upon kindly in the Supply Chain world. They've increased complexity and cost throughout. I've got an email from the ASCM that details why Biden's policies will be beneficial. If you want I can copy and paste it here. Perhaps my bias against his policies comes from my background in that industry.

 

[Tamerlane]

@BrapEbony

Your timeline's off.

The German Presidency was abolished when Hidenburg was on his deathbed and Hitler already had near-dictatorial powers, and so he had his cabinet pass the Law Concerning the Highest State Office of the Reich, which made it so the Presidency was no longer a thing and that he, as Hidenburg's successor, would be the highest governing power in the land. This happened on August 2nd, 1934.

The 1934 government referendum was full of fraud and intimidation to ensure Hitler would win as he was already Fuher, and they were not voting for President, but whether or not the people agreed he should remain in power. Even if it didn't go in his favor, he would still have been in charge both due to him rigging the election, and it essentially just gave him all the former powers of the President "officially," which he de facto already had.

@Halo
More likely? Not necessarily, but I'm saying they have the potential to be far more destruction.

Also, gun control ain't doing shit if people aren't willing to surrender their firearms. Nor does it eliminate guns already in the market, which will just turn a white market into a black market without eliminating demand. See: Prohibition.

Ideally registration should be enough, but that doesn't mean that if you disenfranchise people and they're staunchly in favor of a Jeffersonian view of revolution, then you're pretty much shit out of luck.

@Bestboy
Economically the US was doing pretty good as a whole before the Corona virus occurred, but that can't really be blamed on Trump as much as a force an act of God. That's what the entirety of Albert Camus's "The Plague" is about. Has it made the supply chain more difficult? Probably because he's been focusing on bringing back jobs and putting restrictions on imports, but that's pretty much the entire point is to make it so there's more incentivizes for businesses to buy more goods domestically as opposed to overseas.

So yes, it makes perfect sense given Trump's position in regards to domestic policy and wanting to strengthen the economy of the US and bring back jobs that it would make Supply Chain Economics more difficult because it would change everything, as opposed to Biden's policy, considering he's a corporate democrat, will likely favor preexisting corporations and make the supply chain easier by importing overseas labor.

 

[Richman]

@Tamerlane
Yeah, I really dislike when people try to use the "But Hitler did..." card. I'm not defending Hitler, he can burn in hell.

You make it sound like lawbreakers in Nazi Germany are not celebrated in stories, movies and documentaries.

I forgot to adress this point, yes, those poeple are celebrated because they resisted against an oppressive goverment with the possibility of losing their lives. That's a different situation from these 2020 U.S. elections, Trump's goverment, as bad as it was, wasn't fascist, he was the POTUS who ran his career, chose to run for reelection and lost "fairly" to Biden, the end.

That's not the point. For the sake of this question, you are assuming the mindset of someone who is aware of Hitler and what Hitler did. If Hitler were on the rise to power nowadays and you knew he was going to be Hitler, what would be the moral thing to do? Just let him win the election or roll over?

Personally, I don't think Hitler would even get to run on todays standards, especially in Europe, but whatever. Want a short answer? Jail him, vote for another candidate. Why not commit fraud to avoid him being elected? To me, the answer is a lot more complicated and I can't even explain why because I just don't have the knowledge to do so.

 

[Chrona]

@Bestboy

In contrast, a win for Trump through the SC means re-electing someone even though he lost the PV and EV.

At this point, a win for Trump would only occur through the SC, which would imply the Democrats allegedly attempted to manipulate votes, and were convicted under this scenario. I would support this claim under the same one that doesn't have most Republicans being Nixon apologists. I would think most centrists would agree that having a President who won on a technicality is superior to one that manipulated the voting process. Under such a scenario though, I wonder if a revote would be called for, as I don't believe this has a precedent in US history.

Not that I currently believe that Democrats cheated, but under this scenario, it should be plainly stated that that would be a truth.

 

[BrapEbony]

@Richman

I forgot to adress this point, yes, those poeple are celebrated because they resisted against an oppressive goverment with the possibility of losing their lives. That's a different situation from these 2020 U.S. elections, Trump's goverment, as bad as it was, wasn't fascist, he was the POTUS who ran his career, chose to run for reelection and lost "fairly" to Biden, the end.

Yes, I am quite aware you don't think Trump was Hitler, and I agree. That was not my point. I am asking you to use your imagination, and put yourselves in the shoes of someone who, hearing Antifa's and other's talking points. Literally believes that Trump is Hitler. Using you imagination further, think about whether or not it is moral to let Hitler get elected through official channels when you have the chance to stop it.

 

[Richman]

It isn't.

To elaborate, I would try to expose Hitler's true intentions and get rid of him from the potential candidates.

 

[BestBoy]

@Chrona Ah ya. I didn't think that through very well. Still, wouldn't that both require Biden being personally involved, and there to be so many fraudulent votes that multiple states go to Trump? Otherwise, Biden still has EV and PV. For instance, say there's widespread fraud for Dems, but there are still enough dem votes for the state to stay blue. Would trump still lose?

 

[Kanami-chan]

Why is Trump=Hitler even a discussion lmao are you americans really that gullible? Imagine falling for your corrupt partisan media's bullshit and fearmongering

Also, twitter just banned Benford law graph or whatever its name is. The science that was used to prove frauds in foreign countries elections, but apparently it's all deboonked now lol.

 

[Tamerlane]

@chrona

In terms of precedent, similar stuff happened in the 2000 and the 1960 President race, just not on this scale, and I don't think a revote would really work because if they could definitively rig one election, they could feasible rig another depending on how deep the rot goes.


My solution would be to make them both President and they can only do shit when they both agree on it just because that shit would be hilarious. (And Roman, considering how the Consulship went, but hilarious)

 

[Tamerlane]

@Bestboy

I think it depends entirely on what votes they consider fraudulent and which ones they don't. For instance, if they realize a lot of ballots were moved or tampered with or unfairly thrown out, it may be difficult to decide who has a lead, but similarly, if a good chunk of ballots are in an ambiguous situation such as being incorrectly marked or being otherwise suspect such as when a disproportionate amount of votes just have one candidate written in but no one else, which can be an indicator of election fraud.

I wouldn't know how to answer that, really.

@Kanami-chan

No one in this thread actual agreed to that position. I hope the media just dies a painful death quickly.

 

[ColorfulSoy]

i'm really having a good time reading shit that you guys type on this thread.

You guys are awesome.