The Saga of Tanya the Evil - Vol. 25 Ch. 79 - Long-Distance Reconnaissance Mission V

[SuperOniichan]

Comments are really heated here huh?
Also I see we're getting closer to when the movie took place

Too many edgelords are willing to buy an author's satire as actual historical fact if it panders to their political bias.

 

[RenWolffe]

"Everything that makes fun of my pet ideology is nazi propaganda".

Sure, dude. Or maybe he makes critics to every ideology in the story because all of them have serious flaws. And yeh, I'm aware that the author has socialist views. Guess what, I'm center left myself.

 

[SuperOniichan]

"Everything that makes fun of my pet ideology is nazi propaganda".

Sure, dude. Or maybe he makes critics to every ideology in the story because all of them have serious flaws. And yeh, I'm aware that the author has socialist views. Guess what, I'm center left myself.

I like how you are trying to bring my thesis to the point of absurdity, since you cannot refute it in its usual form. Typical scarecrow. Although, what can you expect from a person who hid the page after the first argument like some little pussy?

Yes, yes, that’s why you tried so hard to pretend that the author was exclusively anti-left and ran around with the author’s satire on the Nazi concept of a “preemptive attack” as a actual historical fact. And of course, you completely missed my joke about how everyone who advocates something is a secret supporter of it, declaring that if I disprove an anti-communist conspiracy theory, then I am a communist. I could sarcastically note that in this case you are a crypto-Nazi in accordance with this logic, but you are too stubborn to understand this, as my joke about “faith in nazi Tanya” showed.

Sorry, dude, but I'm not a communist (Moreover, I consider communism to be an idealistic and overly radical ideology.) , and you're not a center left. Otherwise you wouldn't obsessively upvoted everyone who is biased against the left and spread right-wing conspiracy theories that justify the Nazi attack on my country. A true leftist will never stoop to supporting Nazi propaganda in furthering his biased views against other leftists.

 

[oloudon12345]

Wow! I know this is the internet, but for 2 people trying to present themselves as intelligent and “correct”, there are few opinions being exchanged that go beyond “I think that ___”. Let me do the same!

Personally I’m inclined to say that living in the USSR means jack considering that living in Ukraine was a very different experience than in Russia in the Soviet era. The Soviet satellite states were stripped of as much resources as Russia could take back to Moscow; it’s no wonder the USSR disintegrated once Russia lost its sway. The existence of the satellite states themselves point to the expansionist ideals of the USSR. How do you think a collection of incredibly diverse ethnic groups and cultures could be smashed into one cohesive society? They didn’t! There was no blending of culture, they were just forcefully homogenized with Russian culture by the Russians.

I think it’s fair to generalize that communist states offer poor living conditions. For one, corruption runs rampant as the governments are incredibly hierarchical and people are incentivized to claw for whatever resources they can (largely due to the lack of resources provided). As I see it, people in communist states are viewed as expendable. For example, communist doctrine dictated that quotas had to be achieved at any cost, often at the expense of other areas of industry such as food production. Capitalism for all its faults recognizes supply and demand and will not let people starve in order to create a big number (oooh big number!) of cars if producing food will obviously make money (basically, capitalism isn’t static, I know my example is likely flawed). To counter “China exists”, well no, China isn’t truly communist, rather they use it is a dressing for their authoritarian state and still heavily utilize the private sector, and they still live in a police state. The fact that the standard of living is so high in China for those in the cities reflects the decidedly hedonistic and capitalist values their leadership has adopted. Essentially, give the people desirable things to buy, and it will stimulate are economy.

I have heavily based my opinions on the USSR on information from PaperSkies, a YouTube channel, as well as some others. I haven’t done in depth research to any extent. However, has anyone here? What I’ve stated are obviously opinions, I wouldn’t be surprised if something I said is incorrect. What are facts are some of the statistics (as in death tolls if my language is too fanciful) which surround failed communist policies as well as forced ethnic convergence around the ideals of the leadership. Millions have died directly by the hand of communism.

With that said, I’m done pretending I know anything useful about this topic.

TLDR: The USSR is interesting but overall kinda mid and authoritarian regimes suck in general. The USSR was expansionist and I am happy to have never lived in a communist state.

 

[Vannotz]

thank you for the chapters

 

[SuperOniichan]

Wow! I know this is the internet, but for 2 people trying to present themselves as intelligent and “correct”, there are few opinions being exchanged that go beyond “I think that ___”. Let me do the same!

Personally I’m inclined to say that living in the USSR means jack considering that living in Ukraine was a very different experience than in Russia in the Soviet era. The Soviet satellite states were stripped of as much resources as Russia could take back to Moscow; it’s no wonder the USSR disintegrated once Russia lost its sway. The existence of the satellite states themselves point to the expansionist ideals of the USSR. How do you think a collection of incredibly diverse ethnic groups and cultures could be smashed into one cohesive society? They didn’t! There was no blending of culture, they were just forcefully homogenized with Russian culture by the Russians.

I think it’s fair to generalize that communist states offer poor living conditions. For one, corruption runs rampant as the governments are incredibly hierarchical and people are incentivized to claw for whatever resources they can (largely due to the lack of resources provided). As I see it, people in communist states are viewed as expendable. For example, communist doctrine dictated that quotas had to be achieved at any cost, often at the expense of other areas of industry such as food production. Capitalism for all its faults recognizes supply and demand and will not let people starve in order to create a big number (oooh big number!) of cars if producing food will obviously make money (basically, capitalism isn’t static, I know my example is likely flawed). To counter “China exists”, well no, China isn’t truly communist, rather they use it is a dressing for their authoritarian state and still heavily utilize the private sector, and they still live in a police state. The fact that the standard of living is so high in China for those in the cities reflects the decidedly hedonistic and capitalist values their leadership has adopted. Essentially, give the people desirable things to buy, and it will stimulate are economy.

I have heavily based my opinions on the USSR on information from PaperSkies, a YouTube channel, as well as some others. I haven’t done in depth research to any extent. However, has anyone here? What I’ve stated are obviously opinions, I wouldn’t be surprised if something I said is incorrect. What are facts are some of the statistics (as in death tolls if my language is too fanciful) which surround failed communist policies as well as forced ethnic convergence around the ideals of the leadership. Millions have died directly by the hand of communism.

With that said, I’m done pretending I know anything useful about this topic.

TLDR: The USSR is interesting but overall kinda mid and authoritarian regimes suck in general. The USSR was expansionist and I am happy to have never lived in a communist state.

No, no, the USSR really was a terrible and totalitarian expansionist place where Russian culture was imposed on everyone in “satellite states” (whatever that means)! There were no subsidized regions, even in modern Russia; all resources were pumped into Moscow for the sake of strengthening Russian leadership. And ultimately, it is common knowledge that communism and Soviet socialism taught us the importance of colonialism, the suppression of foreign ethnic cultures and the maximum expansion of the dominant nation. Haven't you read Lenin's works on living space? YouTube won't lie. Thank God that the West in its turn still never imposing their culture on anyone and does not promote expansionary policies, poof.

 

[Blackspace_2]

what a yapfest in these comments

 

[ThatGuy]

These comments lol yeah surely the USSR wasn't amassing troops at the border preparing an invasion... the germans were very stupid and invaded for no reason lol! mmm yep let's open up another front, we are just sooo evil and stupid. Cartoon villain tier stupid really.
Pop history is the worst.

 

[oloudon12345]

No, no, the USSR really was a terrible and totalitarian expansionist place where Russian culture was imposed on everyone in “satellite states” (whatever that means)! There were no subsidized regions, even in modern Russia; all resources were pumped into Moscow for the sake of strengthening Russian leadership. And ultimately, it is common knowledge that communism and Soviet socialism taught us the importance of colonialism, the suppression of foreign ethnic cultures and the maximum expansion of the dominant nation. Haven't you read Lenin's works on living space? YouTube won't lie. Thank God that the West in its turn still never imposing their culture on anyone and does not promote expansionary policies, poof.

Well I’m glad you read what I said in depth. There’s just one problem with your analysis. Just because I say one thing is bad and another is considered an alternative does not mean I believe the alternative is good.

Sure I mentioned capitalism once, but that wasn’t central to my argument, rather highlighting a flaw in communist economics not present in capitalism, an alternative economic system.

Tbh idk what you’re even trying to say. Is it that my statements are absurd and you regurgitating them somehow makes that more apparent? Or you agree with me (which seems unlikely)? You haven’t critically responded in the slightest.

As for satellite states, think of Ukraine, Poland, Romania. Warsaw pact member states. The Holodomor is an excellent example of Soviet management ignoring the needs of one of its satellite states in what could be considered the genocide of millions of people. As for the extent of the reduction of culture in Soviet satellite states, I am not certain. However, Stalinist purges certainly killed Ukrainian intellectuals and the like.

Actually, here’s a lovely article explaining Russia’s attempts to erase the Ukrainian language.

kyivindependent.com/how-russia-has-attempted-to-erase-ukrainian-language-culture-throughout-centuries/

I don’t think it gets more on the nose than that. A general flaw with your response is that you speak as if I only used absolutes. Additionally, the Aral Sea (which you can go research yourself) is a great example of Soviet prioritization of Russian needs. Just because you send money to some place doesn’t mean what you’re getting from them is equal in value.

Why are you so devout in your belief that communism is perfect and without flaws? You’ve pretended to acknowledge it is both flawed but had some benefits, yet refuse to specify the benefits while saying “Nuh uh” to any flaws.

There’s no point in criticizing me for using YouTube as a resource if you continue to not even provide one. Listening to someone knowledgeable speak on a subject and being able to critically apply that information to conversations is much more valuable than “I think”. I don’t care about the flaws of capitalism or the existence of colonialism, they are irrelevant to the subject at hand. I can only guess that you are taking my critique as a personal attack on you, as you’ve criticized my “identity”, namely an expansionist capitalist. Is the USSR really that central to your identity? I don’t believe the US to be an extension of my identity and can recognize the injustices past generations have committed. Can you?

TLDR: So what’s your point? I’m just kind of rambling bcuz you don’t make any sense.

 

[SuperOniichan]

Well I’m glad you read what I said in depth. There’s just one problem with your analysis. Just because I say one thing is bad and another is considered an alternative does not mean I believe the alternative is good.

Sure I mentioned capitalism once, but that wasn’t central to my argument, rather highlighting a flaw in communist economics not present in capitalism, an alternative economic system.

Tbh idk what you’re even trying to say. Is it that my statements are absurd and you regurgitating them somehow makes that more apparent? Or you agree with me (which seems unlikely)? You haven’t critically responded in the slightest.

As for satellite states, think of Ukraine, Poland, Romania. Warsaw pact member states. The Holodomor is an excellent example of Soviet management ignoring the needs of one of its satellite states in what could be considered the genocide of millions of people. As for the extent of the reduction of culture in Soviet satellite states, I am not certain. However, Stalinist purges certainly killed Ukrainian intellectuals and the like.

Actually, here’s a lovely article explaining Russia’s attempts to erase the Ukrainian language.

kyivindependent.com/how-russia-has-attempted-to-erase-ukrainian-language-culture-throughout-centuries/

I don’t think it gets more on the nose than that. A general flaw with your response is that you speak as if I only used absolutes. Additionally, the Aral Sea (which you can go research yourself) is a great example of Soviet prioritization of Russian needs. Just because you send money to some place doesn’t mean what you’re getting from them is equal in value.

Why are you so devout in your belief that communism is perfect and without flaws? You’ve pretended to acknowledge it is both flawed but had some benefits, yet refuse to specify the benefits while saying “Nuh uh” to any flaws.

There’s no point in criticizing me for using YouTube as a resource if you continue to not even provide one. Listening to someone knowledgeable speak on a subject and being able to critically apply that information to conversations is much more valuable than “I think”. I don’t care about the flaws of capitalism or the existence of colonialism, they are irrelevant to the subject at hand. I can only guess that you are taking my critique as a personal attack on you, as you’ve criticized my “identity”, namely an expansionist capitalist. Is the USSR really that central to your identity? I don’t believe the US to be an extension of my identity and can recognize the injustices past generations have committed. Can you?

TLDR: So what’s your point? I’m just kind of rambling bcuz you don’t make any sense.

Seriously? Links to the Holodomor, which Western propaganda portrays as a Ukrainian genocide, ignoring the simultaneous famine in many regions of the USSR, the assertion that Ukraine was a satellite state and not a literal part of Tsarist Russia and the USSR (With that logic, Hawaii is an American satellite state, lmao.), links to obviously biased Ukrainian sources in support of a completely slanderous article about attempts Russians to destroy the Ukrainian language? Dude, don't try to sell crap to someone whose ancestors lived in Ukraine for centuries. In the Russian language there is still a meme “helping the starving people of the Volga region,” referring to the zone of this famine in a place completely far from Ukraine.

Ukrainian nationalists simply turned this into a convenient propaganda tool, pretending that the famine only happened in Ukraine and that Stalin, for some crazy reason, decided to kill all Ukrainians (just because he's evil, yeah). In fact, local officials literally told him that everything was fine and were subsequently shot for negligence and forgery of documents. The same thing with the supposed “preparations for an attack on the West,” when Stalin, stupidly, until the very last minute, did not believe that Hitler would attack him and even devalued the Soviet intelligence officers who reported this (for example, read about the sad fate of Richard Sorge, who died warning Stalin, but he did not believe him). Or how the command of the Soviet fleet literally risked their careers and lives to prepare the fleet for a potential Nazi attack despite Stalin's skepticism. But with clowns like you, he SUDDENLY went from a the fool who trusted the lies of the Nazis to a master of secret plans, lmao.

At least try to google what Ukrainization is and what genre the most popular Ukrainian band Chervona Ruta played (Ukrainian folk rock in a country that supposedly oppresses Ukrainian culture, yeah). The main Ukrainian Soviet film studio named after Dovzhenko literally specialized in films about Ukrainian history and culture. Gross mistakes that you simply don’t realize due to lack of the necessary education. The Soviets literally promoted national culture in all its manifestations within the framework of socialist international ideals. Especially in areas that suffered from Tsarist Russia. To such an extent that asking about roots in the USSR was considered vulgar and ugly, because by showing interest in this, you showed that a person’s personality is determined for you by ethnicity. Therefore, the USSR always promoted internationalism and national revival.

Or how the Baltic countries received endless resources from Russia (just like they are doing now from the EU). This continues in modern Russia, Russian nationalists constantly criticize the authorities for funding various national republics.

And you're literally trying to defend learning history on YouTube with "you didn't provide yours"? You still have the nerve to demand that I justify myself, lmao. Dude, I've lived here for over 30 years, my ancestors include Russians, Ukrainians and Jews of all different political views and social backgrounds. Just enough. What you are trying to attribute to the USSR is true for most Western capitalist or monarchical regimes, but it was never characteristic of the USSR as a socialist state.

And don't even try to put your scarecrow on me, I never claim that communism was the ideal ideology, I was even a critic of communism for most of my adult life myself. But this does not mean that I will buy all pseudo-historical nonsense and propaganda clichés just because I am biased against communism as any radical ideology. Especially when it concerns my country and even goes so far as to justify Nazi propaganda. This is my last answer, I’m not going to spend half my life here discussing nonsense that someone found on YouTube or modern Ukrainian nationalist journalism.

 

[SuperOniichan]

These comments lol yeah surely the USSR wasn't amassing troops at the border preparing an invasion... the germans were very stupid and invaded for no reason lol! mmm yep let's open up another front, we are just sooo evil and stupid. Cartoon villain tier stupid really.
Pop history is the worst.

Yes, that is why many famous German generals later recalled in their memoirs how they dissuaded Hitler from a war on two fronts and called a potential world war madness (for example, most of the conspiracies and attempts to kill Hitler by German officers were caused by a desperate attempt to prevent the death of Germany in a huge war with the whole world, and not by any good intentions). And of course, Stalin ignored and sabotaged any Soviet intelligence reports about the preparation of a German attack on the USSR just for loolz. He was just such a troll that he deceived even his subordinates like Toranaga in the Shogun. The fact that Stalin wanted to avoid war with all his might, considering the Soviet army not ready, was obviously the result of brainwashing by Soviet magicians.

And it’s not that a country with a developed ideology of the necessary living space in the east and detailed plans for exterminating the population of Eastern Europe for the sake of creating German colonies in the east (concepts that existed even before the start of the First World War) had some reason to attack the USSR, yes. This simply happened by accident due to Hitler learning about Stalin's trolling. And it’s not that many Ideologists of German ultra-nationalism and Russian ultra-rightists who fled after the revolution played a role in the formation of Nazism of the first half of the 20th century, convincing Hitler to attack Russia in order to save the world from the “world conspiracy of Jewish communists” and other conspiracy theories. After all, when you don't like Russians or communists, even rotten in the last century Nazi anti-Semitic conspiracy theories will do, right?

I could say that pop history was literally your own comment, but this is the first time I’ve seen a person trying to throw around stories about World War II without even knowing such simple things as the concept of living space in the east or how military generals talked Hitler out of his suicidal plans for a big war .

 

[oloudon12345]

Seriously? Links to the Holodomor, which Western propaganda portrays as a Ukrainian genocide, ignoring the simultaneous famine in many regions of the USSR, the assertion that Ukraine was a satellite state and not a literal part of Tsarist Russia and the USSR (With that logic, Hawaii is an American satellite state, lmao.), links to obviously biased Ukrainian sources in support of a completely slanderous article about attempts Russians to destroy the Ukrainian language? Dude, don't try to sell crap to someone whose ancestors lived in Ukraine for centuries. In the Russian language there is still a meme “helping the starving people of the Volga region,” referring to the zone of this famine in a place completely far from Ukraine.

Ukrainian nationalists simply turned this into a convenient propaganda tool, pretending that the famine only happened in Ukraine and that Stalin, for some crazy reason, decided to kill all Ukrainians (just because he's evil, yeah). In fact, local officials literally told him that everything was fine and were subsequently shot for negligence and forgery of documents. The same thing with the supposed “preparations for an attack on the West,” when Stalin, stupidly, until the very last minute, did not believe that Hitler would attack him and even devalued the Soviet intelligence officers who reported this (for example, read about the sad fate of Richard Sorge, who died warning Stalin, but he did not believe him). Or how the command of the Soviet fleet literally risked their careers and lives to prepare the fleet for a potential Nazi attack despite Stalin's skepticism. But with clowns like you, he SUDDENLY went from a the fool who trusted the lies of the Nazis to a master of secret plans, lmao.

At least try to google what Ukrainization is and what genre the most popular Ukrainian band Chervona Ruta played (Ukrainian folk rock in a country that supposedly oppresses Ukrainian culture, yeah). The main Ukrainian Soviet film studio named after Dovzhenko literally specialized in films about Ukrainian history and culture. Gross mistakes that you simply don’t realize due to lack of the necessary education. The Soviets literally promoted national culture in all its manifestations within the framework of socialist international ideals. Especially in areas that suffered from Tsarist Russia. To such an extent that asking about roots in the USSR was considered vulgar and ugly, because by showing interest in this, you showed that a person’s personality is determined for you by ethnicity. Therefore, the USSR always promoted internationalism and national revival.

Or how the Baltic countries received endless resources from Russia (just like they are doing now from the EU). This continues in modern Russia, Russian nationalists constantly criticize the authorities for funding various national republics.

And you're literally trying to defend learning history on YouTube with "you didn't provide yours"? You still have the nerve to demand that I justify myself, lmao. Dude, I've lived here for over 30 years, my ancestors include Russians, Ukrainians and Jews of all different political views and social backgrounds. Just enough. What you are trying to attribute to the USSR is true for most Western capitalist or monarchical regimes, but it was never characteristic of the USSR as a socialist state.

And don't even try to put your scarecrow on me, I never claim that communism was the ideal ideology, I was even a critic of communism for most of my adult life myself. But this does not mean that I will buy all pseudo-historical nonsense and propaganda clichés just because I am biased against communism as any radical ideology. Especially when it concerns my country and even goes so far as to justify Nazi propaganda. This is my last answer, I’m not going to spend half my life here discussing nonsense that someone found on YouTube or modern Ukrainian nationalist journalism.

I don’t believe Ukrainian sources are unreasonably biased in this case. I don’t think there’s much use in deeming it propaganda if you don't explain the source’s flaws. I’m from the US so I may not understand some context but I’d be surprised if you claim it to be outright lying. Additionally, who else would write on Soviet attempts to expunge Ukrainian culture and language than Ukrainians?

I don’t think you can spin the Holodomor as a myth. It killed at least 2.5 million Ukrainians according to a quote from Timothy Snyder, whose credentials would suggest he is a reputable source.
A breakdown of my understanding of the holodomor:
1. Caused by the Soviet government, intentional or not
2. Wider famine killed around 8 million or so, but majority of deaths were Ukrainian even in broader context
3. Deeply scarred Ukrainians (as a massive famine killing millions would)

The USSR was expansionist. The US was too and continues to exert global influence. It’s fine to point out bias in my sources if you acknowledge your own. If you are ethnically Russian I think that inherently means you carry some bias. It seems to me that you present your Ukrainian ancestry as a defense against views that seem in the least, uncharitable towards Ukraine. I see Russia’s invasion of Ukraine as a continuation of Soviet expansionism. Ukrainization as explained by Wikipedia was a reaction to Russofication and a revival of Ukrainian culture which had been suppressed, namely under Peter the Great.

I don’t like Nazis in the slightest. I don’t like Neo-nazis in the slightest. I don’t care why the USSR and Nazi Germany started fighting and the USSR was likely the lesser of 2 evils (Stalin was not a good leader, even if he had some accomplishments). That doesn’t mean the USSR was not expansionist just like the Russian empire preceding it.

I think the Soviets promoted a national Soviet identity which leaned on Russian culture. The USSR was a place hostile to all sorts of intellectuals such as writers, composers, and playwrights.

I’ll admit I know little substantive about Eastern Europe history. I don’t think you have inherited all of your ancestors’ knowledge however. I think the Aral Sea is an irrefutable example of Soviet mismanagement. The USSR is a communist state. A defense of the USSR is in part a defense of communism in its attempts to function as a government.

I don’t really know what you’re arguing beyond that my understanding lacks depth. You don’t seem to have identified concrete flaws and rather argue for different interpretations or suggest nuance. The popular existence of Hawaiian pizza (regardless of its actual origins) does not mean the US was hands off with Hawaiian culture.

I am essentially arguing that
1. The USSR often made flawed decisions which harmed its people greatly
2. The USSR sought to increase its territorial land holdings, regardless of whether it was founded on historical grounds or not in the instance
3. The USSR did not unilaterally support cultural expression in its member states but rather supported Soviet cultural expression
4. The bias in my sources does not conflict, at least in my eyes, with the information I am presenting. I don’t believe I am spouting alternate history

 

[Zirconium_Corporation]

Oh, wow. I ended up on Reddit, I thought this was mangadex.

 

[oloudon12345]

Oh, wow. I ended up on Reddit, I thought this was mangadex.

I like arguing (or debate). I also like reading manga and manwha. I have to take advantage when hobbies coincide in a comments section.

 

[SuperOniichan]

Oh, wow. I ended up on Reddit, I thought this was mangadex.

This is a discussion of a manga that is based on both military history and politics, what do you want? Obviously this will attract a wide range of "I understand politics, trust me bro" from all sides (for example, one guy simultaneously proved to me that the Russians staged a famine in Ukraine and that at the same time Ukraine was an independent country). Another thing is that even for such discussions, the unironic defense of Nazi propaganda is too much. We are lucky that most of the defenders of the idea of a “preemptive strike” here chose to delicately forget about the connection of this theory with anti-Semitic theories about the threat of the "Judeo-Bolsheviks".

 

[BanzaiYuri]

Oh, wow. I ended up on Reddit, I thought this was mangadex.

The orange confused us.

 

[ThatGuy]

Yes, that is why many famous German generals later recalled in their memoirs how they dissuaded Hitler from a war on two fronts and called a potential world war madness (for example, most of the conspiracies and attempts to kill Hitler by German officers were caused by a desperate attempt to prevent the death of Germany in a huge war with the whole world, and not by any good intentions). And of course, Stalin ignored and sabotaged any Soviet intelligence reports about the preparation of a German attack on the USSR just for loolz. He was just such a troll that he deceived even his subordinates like Toranaga in the Shogun. The fact that Stalin wanted to avoid war with all his might, considering the Soviet army not ready, was obviously the result of brainwashing by Soviet magicians.

And it’s not that a country with a developed ideology of the necessary living space in the east and detailed plans for exterminating the population of Eastern Europe for the sake of creating German colonies in the east (concepts that existed even before the start of the First World War) had some reason to attack the USSR, yes. This simply happened by accident due to Hitler learning about Stalin's trolling. And it’s not that many Ideologists of German ultra-nationalism and Russian ultra-rightists who fled after the revolution played a role in the formation of Nazism of the first half of the 20th century, convincing Hitler to attack Russia in order to save the world from the “world conspiracy of Jewish communists” and other conspiracy theories. After all, when you don't like Russians or communists, even rotten in the last century Nazi anti-Semitic conspiracy theories will do, right?

I could say that pop history was literally your own comment, but this is the first time I’ve seen a person trying to throw around stories about World War II without even knowing such simple things as the concept of living space in the east or how military generals talked Hitler out of his suicidal plans for a big war .

Yep here comes the tanky talking about lebensraum. Huge claim to think that lebensraum had anything to do with the war, pop history again. Also he invaded because... conspiracy theories! Wowie! They were just soooo dumb.
Just for reference, you can ctrl+f hitlers speeches (there are compilations of them in pdf) and "lebensraum" turns out at around 80 hits, "jew" at 450, "Russia+Moscow" at 550, "England" 450, Austria "120" (LMAO why was Austria mentioned more than lebensraum when it was a core ideology/plan of their invasion? weird...), "italy+Mussolini" 450 hits, "Bolshevism+Communism+Communist" 1200 hits...
But yes Germany opened a second front to start some colonies or something. They really got that perfect timing too, they couldn't just wait a few years, so dumb. See, wikipedia says so! their citations are... a book that you have to buy. History is settled. Hitler was a big dummy german high command was too.
Inb4 Hitler didn't reveal his true devilish plans in his speeches because he was the evil cartoon bad man who only liked blonde people while not being blonde. See, he really was such a dummy, duh!

 

[SuperOniichan]

Yep here comes the tanky talking about lebensraum. Huge claim to think that lebensraum had anything to do with the war, pop history again. Also he invaded because... conspiracy theories! Wowie! They were just soooo dumb.
Just for reference, you can ctrl+f hitlers speeches (there are compilations of them in pdf) and "lebensraum" turns out at around 80 hits, "jew" at 450, "Russia+Moscow" at 550, "England" 450, Austria "120" (LMAO why was Austria mentioned more than lebensraum when it was a core ideology/plan of their invasion? weird...), "italy+Mussolini" 450 hits, "Bolshevism+Communism+Communist" 1200 hits...
But yes Germany opened a second front to start some colonies or something. They really got that perfect timing too, they couldn't just wait a few years, so dumb. See, wikipedia says so! their citations are... a book that you have to buy. History is settled. Hitler was a big dummy german high command was too.
Inb4 Hitler didn't reveal his true devilish plans in his speeches because he was the evil cartoon bad man who only liked blonde people while not being blonde. See, he really was such a dummy, duh!

Yes, it’s not that the Germans were stupid to open a second front hoping for the perfect execution of the so-called Blitzkrieg, and it’s not that they had a detailed Barbarossa plan, which was preceded by a massive campaign of disinformation to mislead the Soviets and Stalin about the plans of the German command. If I say that nothing like that happened and Hitler never even said a word about it (which is an outright lie, the conspiracy theory about “Judeo-Bolsheviks who wanted to take over the world existed long before World War II), then this did not happen. For example, Hitler referred to the need to attack the Soviet Union and his belief that the Soviet army was unable to prevent this back in Mein Kampf. And after that do you really have the audacity to talk about pop history? But what do I want from a person who is so pathetic that he literally tries to count mentions of something due to lack of argument?

"Even so, in autumn 1940, some high-ranking German military officials drafted a memorandum to Hitler on the dangers of an invasion of the Soviet Union. They argued that the eastern territories (Ukrainian Soviet Socialist Republic, the Byelorussian Soviet Socialist Republic, the Estonian Soviet Socialist Republic, the Latvian Soviet Socialist Republic, and the Lithuanian Soviet Socialist Republic) would only end up as a further economic burden for Germany. It was further argued that the Soviets, in their current bureaucratic form, were harmless and that the occupation would not benefit Germany politically either. Hitler, solely focused on his ultimate ideological goal of eliminating the Soviet Union and Communism, disagreed with economists about the risks and told his right-hand man Hermann Göring, the chief of the Luftwaffe, that he would no longer listen to misgivings about the economic dangers of a war with the USSR.It is speculated that this was passed on to General Georg Thomas, who had produced reports that predicted a net economic drain for Germany in the event of an invasion of the Soviet Union unless its economy was captured intact and the Caucasus oilfields seized in the first blow; Thomas revised his future report to fit Hitler's wishes. The Red Army's ineptitude in the Winter War against Finland in 1939–40 also convinced Hitler of a quick victory within a few months. Neither Hitler nor the General Staff anticipated a long campaign lasting into the winter and therefore, adequate preparations such as the distribution of warm clothing and winterisation of important military equipment like tanks and artillery, were not made."

And this is not to mention the fact that Hitler really extremely underestimated the possible consequences of opening a second front and attacking the USSR, which the German command repeatedly tried to warn him about. After all, why understand the topic, make some arguments with references to historical and scientific facts, if you can just put on a red nose and a multi-colored wig, right? However, if you are one of those Adolf fanboys whose butt hurts from the thought that Hitler was far from an ideal ruler and made a number of idiotic strategic mistakes, then sorry, this is only your problem, my Nazi baby.

And of course, it’s not that Wikipedia uses a huge collection of sources, because this issue has obviously been studied for decades by thousands of people, because if one source is not available to you, then it has no sources AT ALL. In short, clown, don’t waste my time on all this nonsense and your pretentious attempts to make up for complete ignorance of the topic with shitty sarcasm. I have other things to do.

 

[ThatGuy]

Yes, it’s not that the Germans were stupid to open a second front hoping for the perfect execution of the so-called Blitzkrieg, and it’s not that they had a detailed Barbarossa plan, which was preceded by a massive campaign of disinformation to mislead the Soviets and Stalin about the plans of the German command. If I say that nothing like that happened and Hitler never even said a word about it (which is an outright lie, the conspiracy theory about “Judeo-Bolsheviks who wanted to take over the world existed long before World War II), then this did not happen. And after that do you really have the audacity to talk about pop history?

And of course, it’s not that Wikipedia uses a huge collection of sources, because this issue has obviously been studied for decades by thousands of people, because if one source is not available to you, then it has no sources AT ALL. In short, clown, don’t waste my time on all this nonsense and your pretentious attempts to make up for complete ignorance of the topic with shitty sarcasm. I have other things to do.

Yep the germans thought their blitzkrieg miracle machine would land them in moscow in 2 weeks flat, soooo dumb. 9 out of 10 historians agree. There is a huge collection of sources but not on wikipedia because half of them don't support the consensus, so for lebensraum they just quote a couple books and yap about a populist idea that not even hitler mentioned that much.
And then invaded russia to stablish aryan colonies and because of a jewish conspiracy (they literally couldn't wait 5 years for this, so stupid!). I wonder where this sense of urgency that germany had with russia came from, probably sheer stupidity, I mean historians agree don't they? the ones that wikipedia quotes at least.
Alright SuperOniichan, you may go and do your very important stuff now, stuff wasting your time on me. Seriously.

 

[SuperOniichan]

Yep the germans thought their blitzkrieg miracle machine would land them in moscow in 2 weeks flat, soooo dumb. 9 out of 10 historians agree. There is a huge collection of sources but not on wikipedia because half of them don't support the consensus, so for lebensraum they just quote a couple books and yap about a populist idea that not even hitler mentioned that much.
And then invaded russia to stablish aryan colonies and because of a jewish conspiracy (they literally couldn't wait 5 years for this, so stupid!). I wonder where this sense of urgency that germany had with russia came from, probably sheer stupidity, I mean historians agree don't they? the ones that wikipedia quotes at least.
Alright SuperOniichan, you may go and do your very important stuff now, stuff wasting your time on me. Seriously.

Yes, it’s not that Hitler believed in an easy and quick victory over the Soviets, and the unfolding war in Western Europe required them new guaranteed resources and capacities. I will ignore any researched and proven reasons for the Nazi rush other than the most convenient for me, because my ass hurts incredibly every time I think that my favorite Nazi bros might have acted like fanatical idiots and made strategic mistakes.

Oh, that is, now we have moved on to “the sources are lying, trust me! I figured out on my own that something was wrong here!! Already existing objective justifications do not count because it does not fit with my narrative!11” Classic. Yeah, I really should stop wasting my time on you because I have a feeling that a few more comments and you'll start quoting Holocaust deniers and other similar pseudo-historical revanchist crap..