The Villainess' Slow Prison Life Began with Her Broken Engagement
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@Kiriha
I have yet to see manga adaptation that used WN as a base if in LN were made some changes. Aside from, maybe, Maoyuu Maou Yuusha (since it's all dialogues) and probably Onani Master Kurosawa, though later is online doujinshi, not official manga.
@criver
I have yet to see manga adaptation that used WN as a base if in LN were made some changes. Aside from, maybe, Maoyuu Maou Yuusha (since it's all dialogues) and probably Onani Master Kurosawa, though later is online doujinshi, not official manga.
@criver
Yeah, it should be shounen, since manga being serialized in Comp Ace magazine.
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@Amarrez Even if this is so (I haven't checked so idk). This brings up an issue with mangadex's tagging, where it is pretty much arbitrary as far as some manga are concerned. For instance the WN on which this is based is tagged Josei. Then again, the story clearly reads as shoujo, and I don't believe many people will contend that. There's clearly some discrepancy in what a work is tagged as on here, and what it actually is. Note that I am not saying that I have a foolproof solution to that, just pointing out the problem.
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@Criver
The WN being 'Josei' (which it isn't) wouldn't have any bearing on the manga. Also, this doesn't read like a shoujo in the slightest in my eyes, especially with the way the series handles sexualization of the main character and the fact there's not a single love interest for the MC either. This runs in the same magazine, as I mentioned previously, as series like Overlord and Youjo Senki, which are clearly male-oriented series.
@Rugid
So, neither is wrong and neither is right. It can be marked either Shounen or Seinen (and a cursory glance from my end listed most of them as seinen, which is why we put this up as a seinen). If this had more shounen themes to it I'd be happy to list it as shounen, but it definitely tilts more towards seinen for me.
The WN being 'Josei' (which it isn't) wouldn't have any bearing on the manga. Also, this doesn't read like a shoujo in the slightest in my eyes, especially with the way the series handles sexualization of the main character and the fact there's not a single love interest for the MC either. This runs in the same magazine, as I mentioned previously, as series like Overlord and Youjo Senki, which are clearly male-oriented series.
@Rugid
So, neither is wrong and neither is right. It can be marked either Shounen or Seinen (and a cursory glance from my end listed most of them as seinen, which is why we put this up as a seinen). If this had more shounen themes to it I'd be happy to list it as shounen, but it definitely tilts more towards seinen for me.
@Amarrez
I'd say it should follow lowest common denominator. I.e. if magazine marked as both, then most manga should be shounen because people wouldn't buy for literal children something marked as 18+. Unless some series in this magazine have explicit sex scenes (or sex scenes at all) or extreme gore, then it shouldn't be marked as seinen.
I'd say it should follow lowest common denominator. I.e. if magazine marked as both, then most manga should be shounen because people wouldn't buy for literal children something marked as 18+. Unless some series in this magazine have explicit sex scenes (or sex scenes at all) or extreme gore, then it shouldn't be marked as seinen.
Plenty of shoujo series have serialization of characters and even sex scenes. Usually they go with "smut" tag, like https://mangadex.org/title/5092/tonari-no-koakuma-boy
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@Rugid
Manga doesn't have to have explicit sex scenes or gore to be a seinen, that's a ridiculous notion. Also, Youjo Senki depicts entire towns and villages being burned alive, whilst Kage no Jitsuryokusha depicts torture, if we really want to go down that route.
Also, in regards to sexualization: I don't mean that shoujo can't have sexualized female characters, but it's quite clear that the girls in this series are sexualized whilst the men aren't (outside of gags). That's an entirely different breed compared to shoujo fanservice/smut. Besides, it definitively isn't shoujo based on the magazine it's running in so this is kind of a pointless argument.
Speaking of which, I honestly don't think anyone really knows anything about manga demographics on mangadex, considering that Last Boss Villainess (which runs in Comp Ace as well) is listed as a shoujo.
Manga doesn't have to have explicit sex scenes or gore to be a seinen, that's a ridiculous notion. Also, Youjo Senki depicts entire towns and villages being burned alive, whilst Kage no Jitsuryokusha depicts torture, if we really want to go down that route.
Also, in regards to sexualization: I don't mean that shoujo can't have sexualized female characters, but it's quite clear that the girls in this series are sexualized whilst the men aren't (outside of gags). That's an entirely different breed compared to shoujo fanservice/smut. Besides, it definitively isn't shoujo based on the magazine it's running in so this is kind of a pointless argument.
Speaking of which, I honestly don't think anyone really knows anything about manga demographics on mangadex, considering that Last Boss Villainess (which runs in Comp Ace as well) is listed as a shoujo.
@Amarrez NovelUpdates needs an update if the WN is indeed not Josei (then again, the update should probably entail it being changed to shoujo). Also arguing that the base material has no bearing on the adaptation is strange.
There are multiple reasons why this reads as a shoujo manga. The sexualization of the main character is there only to further the Mary Sue trope of everybody admiring how amazing she is - and yes that includes comparing how amazing her figure and sex appeal is compared to her "rival" (if you can even call that fodder character a "rival"). Needless to say, if this was targeted at boys, it would have been the other way around.
The fact that there's no love interest introduced (yet), or that the emphasis is not on that doesn't really entail anything - not all shoujo manga/novels have an emphasis on this. Granted it may run in a magazine where mostly "seinen" manga are published - I do not discount that, however, I believe that it is clear that the major elements in the manga are there to appeal to a teenage female demographic. I can go in even more details if necessary, and do a page by page analysis and identify the tropes and techniques used to appeal to said female audience (those are well known tropes too, so that is a non-issue), and contrast those to ones used when targeting a teenage male demographic.
Taking into account your answer to Rugid, I think I have a better idea where you're coming from. And I wholeheartedly agree that:
As mentioned the sexualization (if I get correctly which part you're talking about) is there only to emphasize that our MC is superior in every possible aspect (except possibly regarding empathy and morals, but being harmless is not a virtue either).
There are multiple reasons why this reads as a shoujo manga. The sexualization of the main character is there only to further the Mary Sue trope of everybody admiring how amazing she is - and yes that includes comparing how amazing her figure and sex appeal is compared to her "rival" (if you can even call that fodder character a "rival"). Needless to say, if this was targeted at boys, it would have been the other way around.
The fact that there's no love interest introduced (yet), or that the emphasis is not on that doesn't really entail anything - not all shoujo manga/novels have an emphasis on this. Granted it may run in a magazine where mostly "seinen" manga are published - I do not discount that, however, I believe that it is clear that the major elements in the manga are there to appeal to a teenage female demographic. I can go in even more details if necessary, and do a page by page analysis and identify the tropes and techniques used to appeal to said female audience (those are well known tropes too, so that is a non-issue), and contrast those to ones used when targeting a teenage male demographic.
Taking into account your answer to Rugid, I think I have a better idea where you're coming from. And I wholeheartedly agree that:
On the other hand, a manga requires somewhat realistic character interactions if it is to have a pretense at being targeted at adult men or women. Clearly a plot that is pretty much a Mary Sue celebration where realistic interactions are nonexistent doesn't exactly fit in that category.
As mentioned the sexualization (if I get correctly which part you're talking about) is there only to emphasize that our MC is superior in every possible aspect (except possibly regarding empathy and morals, but being harmless is not a virtue either).
@Amarrez
In any case, demographic category is decided by publishers, not by content of manga. Argument about content could only arise in cases as such, and there's seriously nothing that could put it into "seinen". And "sexualization" in this chapter can't hold a candle to any even most tame ecchi series.
It doesn't, but that's reserved for series that's clearly being serialized in seinen magazines/imprints. When it's in those double-tag magazines/imprints, then it's safe to shove all series that don't have clearly "not for kids" content into shounen.
That's even more loose definition of something to be in shoujo or shounen/seinen categories than sex scenes and gore.
In any case, demographic category is decided by publishers, not by content of manga. Argument about content could only arise in cases as such, and there's seriously nothing that could put it into "seinen". And "sexualization" in this chapter can't hold a candle to any even most tame ecchi series.@Amarrez We can speculate all we want as to the reasons of the publishers, but I do not believe that this will bring us any closer to what demographic this targets simply by virtue of the elements of the plot. You can label a cucumber a tomato, won't make it any less of a cucumber.
I think that the strongest argument as to why this should not be labeled as seinen even if we were to just consider the publishers' labels, is the fact that the base work (the WN) is labeled as Josei. And I think for good reason (even though I'd argue shoujo is more fitting just off the Mary Sue tropes and lack of realism). Also note that the art direction also supports this - you have the typical ikemen male characters (albeit they seem to be there only as eye candy for the female readers, while they are intentionally presented as inept and stupid to further showcase how "amazing" the MC is) and the art style is strongly influenced by shoujo/josei art style.
@Rugid
I do believe that we agree on that point. Precisely - it is a target demographic - thus it should be evaluated based on what demographic the story (and obviously its constituent tropes and techniques) targets, not based on whether you put it in the same stash as two other seinen manga. Basically the label shoujo, shounen, seinen, and josei works the other way around - it's not based on what a publisher chose, it's based on what demographic the story targets (you can look up the definition and you will see that it agrees with what I am saying). I believe that the main reason, that the publishers' tags are used on here, is because it is easier, not because it is correct (if anything it doesn't agree with the common definition regarding those).
I think that the strongest argument as to why this should not be labeled as seinen even if we were to just consider the publishers' labels, is the fact that the base work (the WN) is labeled as Josei. And I think for good reason (even though I'd argue shoujo is more fitting just off the Mary Sue tropes and lack of realism). Also note that the art direction also supports this - you have the typical ikemen male characters (albeit they seem to be there only as eye candy for the female readers, while they are intentionally presented as inept and stupid to further showcase how "amazing" the MC is) and the art style is strongly influenced by shoujo/josei art style.
@Rugid
Look up the definition, it's vice versa.
I'm so happy. The series i absolutely love i can now also read as a manga!. For anybody who wants to read the source novel, you can find it here: https://experimentaltranslations.co...prison-life-began-with-her-broken-engagement/. I highly recommend it!
As to the genre question, Novel Updates has the original novel listed under Josei. It definitely feels like a Josei with some shounen elements parodying shoujo stories.
As to the genre question, Novel Updates has the original novel listed under Josei. It definitely feels like a Josei with some shounen elements parodying shoujo stories.
@Rugid The commonly agreed upon definitions refer to the target audience of the work (wiki it - that's the only common definition within all articles, and that's not indicated as being "unclear" or "original research"). You can argue that the labeling originates with the publisher, however, that doesn't guarantee the above definition, even if on average this is the case. To make matters worse, there are numerous cases where different publishers (after licensing) have changed the target demographic, which should tell you something about using the publisher's label as an objective measure.
If you want to be faithful to the definition, the easiest way to tell the target demographic, with no analysis involved, is to simply take a statistic of the readers - but this is usually hard to do (not that mangadex cannot implement such a feature, but it will still rely on people being willing to disclose their sex for statistical data and not misrepresenting it, which is clearly pushing it). So the next best thing is to just analyze the tropes, techniques, and art employed in a work.
Note that the main purpose of target-demographic tags is to help you filter out what you're looking for. So just rolling with a clearly misleading publisher branding (whether intentional or not) is evidently counterproductive. The bigger problem is how do you fix that effectively on a large scale - and there's no clear answer to that.
To me, it is clear beyond doubt, that this manga is not targeted at men. The fact that it is an adaptation of a Josei WN just reinforces that. I'd also argue that it's not targeted at adults, but that's a different matter.
If you want to be faithful to the definition, the easiest way to tell the target demographic, with no analysis involved, is to simply take a statistic of the readers - but this is usually hard to do (not that mangadex cannot implement such a feature, but it will still rely on people being willing to disclose their sex for statistical data and not misrepresenting it, which is clearly pushing it). So the next best thing is to just analyze the tropes, techniques, and art employed in a work.
Note that the main purpose of target-demographic tags is to help you filter out what you're looking for. So just rolling with a clearly misleading publisher branding (whether intentional or not) is evidently counterproductive. The bigger problem is how do you fix that effectively on a large scale - and there's no clear answer to that.
To me, it is clear beyond doubt, that this manga is not targeted at men. The fact that it is an adaptation of a Josei WN just reinforces that. I'd also argue that it's not targeted at adults, but that's a different matter.
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@criver @amarrez @Rugid
Those talking about demographic for the novel, in reality it's considered an adult novel, not shoujo, josei, shounen, or seinen. It's for sale in the adult literary, sci-fi/fantasy section
https://booklive.jp/product/index/title_id/581364/vol_no/001
The magazine is seinen, and whilst that term is typically defined as for older males, in all honesty it's the catchall demographic for anything not shoujo, josei, or shounen (I know this cause I actually attended a lecture targeting Japanese demographics). Those is why something like Karneval, which really feels targeted towards girls with all it's pretty guys, is still seinen (it still has cool battles).
Those talking about demographic for the novel, in reality it's considered an adult novel, not shoujo, josei, shounen, or seinen. It's for sale in the adult literary, sci-fi/fantasy section
https://booklive.jp/product/index/title_id/581364/vol_no/001
The magazine is seinen, and whilst that term is typically defined as for older males, in all honesty it's the catchall demographic for anything not shoujo, josei, or shounen (I know this cause I actually attended a lecture targeting Japanese demographics). Those is why something like Karneval, which really feels targeted towards girls with all it's pretty guys, is still seinen (it still has cool battles).
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