The Woman Who Messes With My Emotions (2022) - Ch. 20

[himi-cat]

Lots of great points here, and they (along with most of the comments) really highlight one thing: this manga is basically a Rorschach test, and it's entirely deliberate.

Like she's... fucking doing everything right here, these past two chapters are frustrating beyond belief. Azuha isn't messing with anyone's emotions. She's gentle, inviting, reassuring and even pulls back when she's sure she took it too far and making sure to communicate that she still wants to see him. This, WHILE she knows that he was talking to someone else and threw that woman out of his room with a lie, clearly not confident enough to even say that the two of them were in a relationship. Nor confident enough to tell Azuha that someone else was there.

She is absolutely doing everything right - the only thing that's not working out so well is the fact that her seemingly boundless confidence is insanely intimidating for the MC.

The thing is, the author has set things up so that the readers are primed to interpret everything she does through the classic yandere/crazy stalker lens. It takes effort to step outside that framing and consider her actions from a more objective perspective - without that, it's hard not to see her actions as kind of creepy. And the more the reader identifies with the MC (in particular, with his insecurities and extremely damaged self-image), the harder it is to step outside the author's framing.

It's also increasingly clear that the framing is 100% deliberate - particularly with the dribs and drabs of background for her character that keep challenging the MC's assumptions about Azusa. The more we learn actual facts about her, the more it seems like the apparently omniscient and reliable narrative perspective is actually not at all reliable - those third-person perspectives are still strongly influenced by the MC's insecurities and anxieties, and in particular by the fact that the MC really can't get past that initial sense of paranoia at the whole idea of someone like her liking someone like him. Which is, ultimately, at the heart of the yandere lens that we keep seeing Azusa through, and which just bites so very hard on the soul of any readers who identify in any way with the MC . . . which, when you get down to brass tacks, is probably 90+% of the audience for a manga like this.

The author knows exactly what they're doing - they know their audience, and they're playing them (us!) like a fiddle.

I don't think that's fair to him. It's less "oh no, she's impure," it's "oh no, I'm not going to be anything she remembers." Her words that were meant to re-assure him that she isn't going to dislike having sex with him instead made him retreat into his feelings of inadequacy, which she fucking noticed.

This was actually one thing that threw me a bit - the way she talked about that was a bit off, it felt a little too overtly predatory with the suggestion that she liked taking people's first times, and hunted them down. It may have been a translation issue, though, since his response didn't quite fit with the translation - he was feeling bad about the fact that he'd just be one among many for her, rather than picking up on the predatory aspect.

Either way, she wasn't doing anything wrong - if she was genuinely predatory she could have forced things in a number of ways, even with the MC's anxiety getting in the way, but instead she didn't even kiss him without giving him the option of backing out.

But now there's some OTHER girl and its annoying. Azuha doesn't deserve this. She's been so patient and careful and clear in her non-verbal communication that this relationship being denied is deeply frustrating, especially because we've never seen any acknowledgement from him about just how much she's trying to say she likes him and wants to be around him. Cause he can't, yes, cause he doesn't believe it, but god DAMN it man what does she have to DO dude

I think the crazy stalker fangirl is possibly the key to the whole story. The thing about her is that she's pressing a very different set of the MC's buttons - with her, he's in a position of power/authority as the older party, the more experienced person, the one in the position of respect. He's (mostly) within his comfort zone - sure, it's embarrassing having his Dark History(tm) coming up like this, but it's still something he feels comfortable dealing with. All of which means that he feels safe when he's dealing with her, while he's in a near-constant state of panic when dealing with Azusa.

But! He actually gets on a whole lot better with Azusa! And he's not a total idiot, so he recognises this. He's not torn between the two because he likes them both the same way - he's torn because he likes Azusa, but he doesn't feel safe or comfortable when he's with her, whereas he feels safe and (mostly) comfortable with crazy stalker girl, but he doesn't actually like her that much.

The problem is, because he feels like he's in a position of power/authority with crazy stalker fangirl, he feels like it's okay to treat her badly - which he is, particularly with the current situation where his pussy-footing around has been leading her on. Sure he's (mostly) trying to be nice and not hurt her, and he feels kind of bad about what he's doing . . . but he already feels bad about himself, so that's entirely within his comfort zone - him feeling bad about what he's doing with crazy stalker fangirl just doesn't have any moral/ethical force, at best it's mildly masochistict self-flagellation.

Whereas he very much doesn't feel safe and comfortable with Azusa - he's constantly on edge, even when he's genuinely enjoying being with her. And that's only partly due to his insecurities and self-image - the bigger part is the fact that he's very much not in a position of power with her, which means he's constantly terrified of screwing up and being punished. Which only serves to encourage him to treat crazy stalker fangirl badly - he feels he can get away with that, where he has no chance of getting away with doing that with Azusa.

And I think that's really the point of this whole story: watching the slow disintegration of the MC's identity as he tries to thread the needle between these two women, ultimately destroying both relationships because he was just too insecure and fearful to be able to treat either of them with the respect they deserved.

 

[himi-cat]

Tbh, even if I understand those who say he's a loser because "he ruined the mood", I find myself unable to read page 6 as something normal. The way she said that, even if it was to reassure him or her saying she wants to the his "first memory" or whatever else, would obviously make an insecure person think and compare himself to "previous" people.

I think that may be something in the translation, because his reaction wasn't really consistent with that - I think he would have responded differently if the original text matched the natural reading of the translation.

I mean...she kinda gives the yandere creepy vibes from chp 1. It's not weird that she's "still" interested in him when she somewhat feels obsessed with him...

She's given off yandere vibes the whole time, but when you actually look at what she's said and done I don't think there's any rational foundation for those vibes - I actually just re-read the first ten chapters, and there's really nothing in what she's actually done that's off colour or questionable at all. And there's nothing to suggest she's obsessed with him, either - she's not pushy, she's not constantly contacting him or chasing him or anything like that. The only thing that's at all weird is that she seems to be genuinely attracted to such a loser . . . which is only weird if you're looking at things from the perspective of the MC and all his insecurities.

Hell, it's not even all that weird that she's persisted as long as she has despite all those insecurities - they havent actually gone on more than three or four dates by this point, and until this last one they all seem to have ultimately gone really well despite the MC trying to blow things up.

 

[himi-cat]

EDIT: I will say though, that whatever is going on in her head, is being lost in translation when it comes out her mouth. She said the wrong words and the wrong time that shifts the relationship dynamics by making everything she does suspicious. "Does she like me or does she just want my virginity?"-kinda thing. Her body language might be encouraging and affectionate, but are her feelings behind it legit? He would've struggled to gauge that before (due to his insecurity), and it's impossible now without proper dialogue between them.

This really feels like a translation issue, since he didn't react the way I'd have expected if that was what she said in the original - his reaction was totally focused on how he felt about being just one among many for her, nothing else.

If the original meaning had matched the natural reading of the translation I'd expect him to be going "huh? she makes a habit of taking people's virginity?", particularly since that should really hit him like a tonne of bricks - suddenly he'd have an explanation for why she was chasing a complete loser like himself. In the absence of any reaction along those kinds of lines, it makes more sense as a mistranslation or slightly bad phrasing than anything else.

 

[Dingo777]

Lots of great points here, and they (along with most of the comments) really highlight one thing: this manga is basically a Rorschach test, and it's entirely deliberate.

She is absolutely doing everything right - the only thing that's not working out so well is the fact that her seemingly boundless confidence is insanely intimidating for the MC.

The thing is, the author has set things up so that the readers are primed to interpret everything she does through the classic yandere/crazy stalker lens. It takes effort to step outside that framing and consider her actions from a more objective perspective - without that, it's hard not to see her actions as kind of creepy. And the more the reader identifies with the MC (in particular, with his insecurities and extremely damaged self-image), the harder it is to step outside the author's framing.

It's also increasingly clear that the framing is 100% deliberate - particularly with the dribs and drabs of background for her character that keep challenging the MC's assumptions about Azusa. The more we learn actual facts about her, the more it seems like the apparently omniscient and reliable narrative perspective is actually not at all reliable - those third-person perspectives are still strongly influenced by the MC's insecurities and anxieties, and in particular by the fact that the MC really can't get past that initial sense of paranoia at the whole idea of someone like her liking someone like him. Which is, ultimately, at the heart of the yandere lens that we keep seeing Azusa through, and which just bites so very hard on the soul of any readers who identify in any way with the MC . . . which, when you get down to brass tacks, is probably 90+% of the audience for a manga like this.

The author knows exactly what they're doing - they know their audience, and they're playing them (us!) like a fiddle.

This was actually one thing that threw me a bit - the way she talked about that was a bit off, it felt a little too overtly predatory with the suggestion that she liked taking people's first times, and hunted them down. It may have been a translation issue, though, since his response didn't quite fit with the translation - he was feeling bad about the fact that he'd just be one among many for her, rather than picking up on the predatory aspect.

Either way, she wasn't doing anything wrong - if she was genuinely predatory she could have forced things in a number of ways, even with the MC's anxiety getting in the way, but instead she didn't even kiss him without giving him the option of backing out.

I think the crazy stalker fangirl is possibly the key to the whole story. The thing about her is that she's pressing a very different set of the MC's buttons - with her, he's in a position of power/authority as the older party, the more experienced person, the one in the position of respect. He's (mostly) within his comfort zone - sure, it's embarrassing having his Dark History(tm) coming up like this, but it's still something he feels comfortable dealing with. All of which means that he feels safe when he's dealing with her, while he's in a near-constant state of panic when dealing with Azusa.

But! He actually gets on a whole lot better with Azusa! And he's not a total idiot, so he recognises this. He's not torn between the two because he likes them both the same way - he's torn because he likes Azusa, but he doesn't feel safe or comfortable when he's with her, whereas he feels safe and (mostly) comfortable with crazy stalker girl, but he doesn't actually like her that much.

The problem is, because he feels like he's in a position of power/authority with crazy stalker fangirl, he feels like it's okay to treat her badly - which he is, particularly with the current situation where his pussy-footing around has been leading her on. Sure he's (mostly) trying to be nice and not hurt her, and he feels kind of bad about what he's doing . . . but he already feels bad about himself, so that's entirely within his comfort zone - him feeling bad about what he's doing with crazy stalker fangirl just doesn't have any moral/ethical force, at best it's mildly masochistict self-flagellation.

Whereas he very much doesn't feel safe and comfortable with Azusa - he's constantly on edge, even when he's genuinely enjoying being with her. And that's only partly due to his insecurities and self-image - the bigger part is the fact that he's very much not in a position of power with her, which means he's constantly terrified of screwing up and being punished. Which only serves to encourage him to treat crazy stalker fangirl badly - he feels he can get away with that, where he has no chance of getting away with doing that with Azusa.

And I think that's really the point of this whole story: watching the slow disintegration of the MC's identity as he tries to thread the needle between these two women, ultimately destroying both relationships because he was just too insecure and fearful to be able to treat either of them with the respect they deserved.

I think it’s less that he feels a sense of authority over the fangirl and so he’s intentionally treating her badly, it’s more that he’s being manipulated by her into doing things he’d rather not (intentionally or not). He straight up chose Azusa when presented with the choice, and tried to put her off gently (which admittedly was a mistake). She immediately started putting out dangerously codependent vibes which forced him to change his plans. She’s basically forcing him into a corner by guilting him with everything short of “if you don’t I’ll hurt myself”.

Honestly if either girl is “manipulating (his) emotions” it’s the fan girl.

 

[Weebshit5149]

Bruh just hit and split, that's why you never go back to your own place. Can't just leave when it's over, always go to them then you can bounce when needed, get uncomfortable leave. Smash and dont wanna cuddle leave. Realize shes crazy midway, leave. And you get the added bonus of them not knowing where you live to come fuck with your shit later on

 

[Weoooo]

I didn't even think of some of this stuff, dang

...It's also increasingly clear that the framing is 100% deliberate - particularly with the dribs and drabs of background for her character that keep challenging the MC's assumptions about Azusa. The more we learn actual facts about her, the more it seems like the apparently omniscient and reliable narrative perspective is actually not at all reliable - those third-person perspectives are still strongly influenced by the MC's insecurities and anxieties, and in particular by the fact that the MC really can't get past that initial sense of paranoia at the whole idea of someone like her liking someone like him. Which is, ultimately, at the heart of the yandere lens that we keep seeing Azusa through, and which just bites so very hard on the soul of any readers who identify in any way with the MC . . . which, when you get down to brass tacks, is probably 90+% of the audience for a manga like this.

The author knows exactly what they're doing - they know their audience, and they're playing them (us!) like a fiddle.

Like, I didn't pick up on this. I had these two ideas in my head: his insecurity is what makes her so spooky, and the more you identify with him, the more you'll be spooked; but I didn't put together that it can very much be authorial intent. I think part of it is life experience, as well. I look at him the way I look back at my younger self being unable to see clear signs of affection because I hated myself so much I couldn't imagine someone liking me. Someone I used to be, through the lens of regret. I understand him, I feel his emotional turmoil, but I am primed to see it as false rather than true.

But, when you look at her spookiness as intentional, it sews up the problem with seeing her as a Yandere-type or predator when she hasn't been acting like that at all. She isn't, but she's meant to look that way to us on purpose.

This was actually one thing that threw me a bit - the way she talked about that was a bit off, it felt a little too overtly predatory with the suggestion that she liked taking people's first times, and hunted them down. It may have been a translation issue, though, since his response didn't quite fit with the translation - he was feeling bad about the fact that he'd just be one among many for her, rather than picking up on the predatory aspect.

I also think I almost subconsciously thought this. Because her wording is odd, but his reaction isn't the type of reaction that makes sense for it. He doesn't ignore it, either. It clearly emotionally effects him, and she notices. But

If the original meaning had matched the natural reading of the translation I'd expect him to be going "huh? she makes a habit of taking people's virginity?", particularly since that should really hit him like a tonne of bricks - suddenly he'd have an explanation for why she was chasing a complete loser like himself. In the absence of any reaction along those kinds of lines, it makes more sense as a mistranslation or slightly bad phrasing than anything else.

Exactly, it answers all the questions that are constantly swirling around in his head. All of a sudden everything is clear. She doesn't like him, she's after him cause she likes to take the virginity of guys. The reaction that people are having to her words in this comment section would be his, because... well, it all makes sense if you think about it that way. But instead, he's worried about not being someone special and instead being someone forgotten. Which is a much different concern. So I think I basically ignored how you could interpret her wording because it didn't seem to make sense, even though it's a huge red flag.

I think the crazy stalker fangirl is possibly the key to the whole story...

...He actually gets on a whole lot better with Azusa! And he's not a total idiot, so he recognises this. He's not torn between the two because he likes them both the same way - he's torn because he likes Azusa, but he doesn't feel safe or comfortable when he's with her, whereas he feels safe and (mostly) comfortable with crazy stalker girl, but he doesn't actually like her that much...

because he feels like he's in a position of power/authority with crazy stalker fangirl, he feels like it's okay to treat her badly - which he is... but he already feels bad about himself, so that's entirely within his comfort zone - him feeling bad about what he's doing with crazy stalker fangirl just doesn't have any moral/ethical force, at best it's mildly masochistic self-flagellation.

Whereas he very much doesn't feel safe and comfortable with Azusa - he's constantly on edge, even when he's genuinely enjoying being with her.... the bigger part is the fact that he's very much not in a position of power with her, which means he's constantly terrified of screwing up and being punished. Which only serves to encourage him to treat crazy stalker fangirl badly - he feels he can get away with that, where he has no chance of getting away with doing that with Azusa.

And I think that's really the point of this whole story: watching the slow disintegration of the MC's identity as he tries to thread the needle between these two women, ultimately destroying both relationships because he was just too insecure and fearful to be able to treat either of them with the respect they deserved.

Mostly, I didn't even think of this. The whole point of why Ametella is introduced. I saw her as unnecessary drama, but no: it shows a very important part of Yuuta's character. He doesn't get along as well with her, and it's still awkward, but he's in power there. He's Dark Knight Sensei. She wants to draw cover illustrations for him, and he tells her she's his one and only fan. He's older, he's more experienced, he's the one in charge. He can lie to her. He can lead her on. He can take the affection and admiration of this younger girl and just sort of... absorb it, without ever worrying about what he's actually doing all that much. He feels bad, sure, but not bad enough to do anything other than go "man I feel like shit about what I'm doing," and as you pointed out, he feels like shit all the time anyway.

He could have fulfilling relationships with both of these women. He could encourage Ametella and push her to showcase her talents more. He likes her, she's fun, and he isn't really all that attracted to her anyway. They could be friends no problem, his time with her feels more like just having a female friend to him. Azusa and him have serious sparks, share hobbies and tastes, and she seems to be honest to god interested in him and he's so into her he can't even think straight. There is no reason for this to all fall apart, no reason for this to be a choice. Other than Yuuta's personal shortcomings, his inability to treat these two in an honest and forthright manner.

This isn't a romance. This is a long replay of a shocking series of fumbles.

 

[LuckyThePirate]

im actually pretty happy about this turn of events. she admitted what i long thought, shes a damaged woman who wants to damage as many weak men as she can. he saved himself alot of pain by rejecting her, hopefully she gets the hint and fucks off so kohai girl can take her rightful place. now i did feel bad for azusa a bit when she read the message and found out he lied to another girl to get rid of her. but at the same time based on his demeanor its easy to tell he has 0 zero experience with women and her methods of seduction just are not going to work on a guy who has no experience on how to pick up the physical ques.

 

[Esteria]

I see it as both she comes off as very stalkerish but more than that she comes off as a virgin hunter. Which is his reaction in this chapter. Not that she's crazy but that she'll just fuck him and ditch and he didn't like the idea of that. Which would mean all her proactive effort in the dating was because he's a virgin and not because she liked him.

 

[LuckyThePirate]

The problem is that it was all heading in the direction that she did have a genuine connection and liking for him, but at the most crucial moment when they are about to cement their relationship she suddenly makes it about how she likes setting up guys like him for this moment. Now every single touch and every single moment they had is suspect. She knew what kind of power she had over him and then she somehow chose the exact words to drive doubt into his heart. It re-contextualizes the entire story up till now. We as the reader have to doubt her motives from the very beginning. She had been pretty clear that she was trying to show interest in him, but now we don't know what her motives for doing so were. And our MC doesn't either and of course he's going to a place of insecurity because he's been clear since the beginning that he's insecure! And she just lets the issue hang during the night. I can't tell if she's just clumsy or calculating, but it's looking to me that the MC is in for a world of hurt.

i want to point out that in the original story she was a psycho yandere killer. also check out welcome home papa its this authors other much darker work its really good too.

 

[wallsg]

Oh God he is a cringe purity worshiping loser.

TBF, he seems to be more concerned that he'll just be someone that she won't remember then he is about her being "pure". She did make a big deal out of never forgetting your first time.

So gross when guys need their girls to be 'pure' for them. Sex is a natural thing and you aren't 'damaged goods' as many Manga like to say when the girl isn't a virgin (but they NEVER say that about the guy, curious...)

Requiring a girl to be a virgin to be qualified to be your girlfriend is going overboard. Requiring a girl to not be a thot is perfectly fine. Now the question is, where do you draw the line?

 

[wallsg]

Saying you like taking first times is weird and fetishy no matter how you slice it lmao

If you reverse the genders then you have the setup for a hentai.

 

[wallsg]

"people always remember their fist time"? naaah. barely remember mine. was a bit drunk. bit underage. well quite a bit. and had first time with an older girls for whom it was for fun and a favor for my asshole of a step-brother. so was not a good experience, hence I barely remember it. (also age. getting older sucks, many things will be forgotten or turn hazy. even many good memories)

Too bad you were drunk. I remember mine from a little over 40 years ago. The "it's so warm" thought that you see in manga is not a lie. (Sorry if that sounds a little gross.)