Toshiue Elite Onna Kishi ga Boku no Mae de dake Kawaii - Vol. 1 Ch. 1.2

[rebel16]

@liquidsword Seriously? I made a few observations, then addressed comments about those observations with clarifications, and suddenly I'm complaining and idiotic? It's unfortunate that expecting discussion in a discussion thread is idiotic. I have in fact directly addressed points you and Tamerlane. You apparently did not actually read what I wrote, or you would see that I haven't been repeating things over and over. Since you seem to have utterly missed the point of my argument, I'll spell it out here in a few quick bullet points:

--The MMC is kind of a douchebag, and probably not a great mate choice for the FMC.

And that's it, really. Anything else was just supporting detail. I never called for action against the manga or derided those who enjoy it, which are the only things I can think of offhand that might spark such defensiveness - in fact, I specifically pointed out that I am still planning on reading it. You seem to have gotten a lot more out of my comments than I put into them. And indeed, when I pointed out that I had been making observations rather than complaining, instead of apologizing as promised, you freaked out and offered to block me. Not that I care, just pointing it out to make it easier for you to self-evaluate - assuming you haven't blocked me already.

There is a lot of entertainment, some of which I enjoy, that is problematic in some ways. That doesn't mean people are necessarily bad for liking it, but it is still important to be aware of what the issues with it are. If you seriously can't handle someone posing an extremely mild critique of something you enjoy, it sounds like you have something solid to talk about the next time you see your therapist.

 

[rebel16]

But to sum things up for anyone else getting butthurt that I'm not enthusiastically into something they enjoy (and to avert accusations, I acknowledge here that I am deliberately repeating some things, for the purpose of conclusion): Yep, they're shitty tropes; yep, I'm mildly disappointed that, from what we've seen, those tropes are probably not going to be subverted; and yep, I'm going to keep reading to find out, because trash is fine sometimes too. If that flings you into keyboard-pounding outrage, I think it's fairly clear that my comments aren't the problem.

 

[MarqFJA87]

@rebel16: What @liquidsword said. You're clearly not interested in arguing in good faith.

 

[rebel16]

@MarqFJA87 I'm not interested in arguing at all. I had some points to make, and I made them, adding clarification where they were misunderstood. I'm not trying to change minds, just offering a point of view that clearly differs from yours.

Even so, I think you and I may have different ideas about what a "good faith argument" entails. Let's try to get on the same page here: what is your definition, and how have I failed to meet it?

Edit: This has actually veered well off-topic, so if you're interested in having this discussion - as I am - feel free to drop me a DM. Let's keep this thread for discussion of the current manga issue.

 

[Vykos]

shota kun definitely get lot of love from owner XD

 

[TughrilMahmut]

I NEED MOAR!

 

[Kaarme]

@rebel16

how frequently things like this are played for laughs with no recognition of how damaging they can be when applied in real life

In real life? For laughs? I don't see you criticising how the bar owner mutilated the kid with a giant mallet, until he was all bruised and bloody. You seem hypocritical.

I don't know if the MMC could be a great partner for the FMC, but as things were proceeding, the FMC would have never had any partner to begin with, and that's a thing clearly causing her distress. She needed someone as aggressive and tenacious as the kid because nothing else would get through, not to mention few people seem interested in her, the scary captain (and in the past, 29 was quite old already). In RL, in the distant past, her parents (or guardian) would have arranged her marriage without her needing to do pretty much anything. If the parents had been really jolly, they might have asked for her opinion, but even that wasn't the norm. However, this is a fantasy series with monsters and whatnot, not anything realistic by far.

 

[rebel16]

@Kaarme I don't know where this idea that you can't criticize one thing without having to criticize everything came from, but it is wrong and needs to die in a fire. Also, talking about one thing but not another is not hypocritical; condemning an action while performing it oneself would be.

tl;dr: Societal understanding/acceptance of the dangers of physical violence differs from societal understanding/acceptance of the dangers of emotional violence.

I think you would agree that it is fairly clear what the harm is in beating someone with a mallet, yes? Unfortunately, predatory, manipulative, invasive, creepy, and outright dangerous actions keep getting represented in popular media as "romantic", and many people - especially younger ones, who generally have underdeveloped critical thinking skills - buy into this without further reflection; the Twilight series provides an example of this.

Now, people are imperfect and relationships will develop or disintegrate for all sorts of reasons, good or bad. But it just seems ignorant at best, and dangerous at worst, when modes of entertainment keep pushing this sort of unhealthy interaction and presenting it in a positive light instead of highlighting the inherent problems. And I haven't even touched on the problems inherent in superior/subordinate relationships.

Are these real things that happen all the time with real people? Absolutely. Are they harmless and value-neutral? My opinion is they are not. Does their use in this manga make it worthless and bad? As I have said previously, I do not think they do, I'm just disappointed the author didn't do something different with them. But not everything's going to be an instant classic, right?

And all that aside, I agree with your final paragraph.

 

[Kaarme]

@rebel16

I don't know where this idea that you can't criticize one thing without having to criticize everything came from, but it is wrong and needs to die in a fire. Also, talking about one thing but not another is not hypocritical; condemning an action while performing it oneself would be.

That wasn't my point at all. I only said it in sarcasm to point out that the work has multiple elements that have got nothing to do with realism, so only paying attention to a single unrealistic element is not seeing the forest for the trees. Unrealistic or unbecoming, however you would put it. I guess I worded it too ambiguously and aggressively.

The world of fiction has always been obsessed with violence (both physical and psychological) and death. When movies where people fall like crops during the harvest are always among the top performers in theaters, it seems pointless to criticise stalking in a comedicy. I would understand it in a series that tries to depict reality, yet still presented it as normal, but in a series like this that is anything but, going as far as you did seems like going overboard.

Hitting someone with a mallet in the head until bruised and bleeding is a suitable punishment for behaving suspiciously in a pub, stalking and publicly teasing/embarrassing someone is a suitable method of courtship. Those seem about equal to me, and thus they both belong in the pure fiction category in this context. I'm not claiming I'd always like this stuff myself, but it depends on how likable (in my opinion) the characters are otherwise and how well the story is written, and also drawn, since we are talking about manga.

 

[Dannytran]

Shop keeper looks like Almight for a brief moment

 

[Nk9bjP4A]

Oh look, it's a medieval hoody.

 

[ghostgamer1501]

how to not piss her off
rule number 1: don't say the word virgin around her

 

[Al15]

Drinking water? It’s the fucking medieval age!

Beta MC

 

[OkitaJSouji]

Well, it is hard to gather accurate information if you're tipsy af lmao

 

[Silwith]

Bunny Waitress and Bunny Waiter... EQUALITY <3 gimme cute male bunny waiter *_*

 

[Amariithynar]

@OkitaJSouji yeah, but this is the medieval era, where there was no guarentee water was clean unless it was fresh running water (not even well water was completely guarenteed safe) which is why they drank pretty thin, watered-down beer instead of water. The alcohol in the beer made it safer to drink than straight water, paradoxically.

Also, come on, Haru, you could have at least bought some food. :/

 

[JustWyatt]

@Al15 Yeah, water is a thing even during the medival period. Alchohol isnt a primary drink dude, because if was most of world would have birth defects, who knew that humans drink water.

 

[kaitouk166]

noice

 

[Dankleer]

Happy birthday James

 

[Chaosfox]

I appreciate the gender equality of the scantily vlad bunny man waiters