Translation - point of contention...

[Lewd_Beast]

Personal opinion. It annoys me that translations insist on keeping honorifics. Maybe I should expand that to criticise word for word translations. The Japanese language we see in pop culture media, like LN & manga is equivalent to the English language from a hundred years ago. It is verbose and stagnant and strained. In the west, and in particular in the post war era, language has evolved at a fantastical rate. Can you imagine referring to a school friend as "young master Smith" rather than Smith, John or a nickname? Yet that it what we are largely getting in verbatim translations today with 'surname'-kun. While I could argue that Japan needs to sort itself out, who am I to tell a repressed country that they need to stop being repressed? However, when it comes to translations it is hard work dragging yourself through long stilted prose, when what is needed is the essence of the sentiment presented in the modern vernacular. Admittedly, anime dubs do great work in this respect and while the male characters may still be beta simps, cowering in a puddle of their own wee, they are far move relatable than if they where speaking like Downton Abbey.
I know the counter argument is that this would be like Shakespeare being performed in modern English, (but that can happen) but even the bard never used honorifics ;-)

 

[solstice258]

You can take glorious honorific-names like Hori-chan-senpai out of my cold dead hands.
Go read your official English localizations.

 

[Robinisback]

Personal opinion. It annoys me that translations insist on keeping honorifics. Maybe I should expand that to criticise word for word translations. The Japanese language we see in pop culture media, like LN & manga is equivalent to the English language from a hundred years ago. It is verbose and stagnant and strained. In the west, and in particular in the post war era, language has evolved at a fantastical rate. Can you imagine referring to a school friend as "young master Smith" rather than Smith, John or a nickname? Yet that it what we are largely getting in verbatim translations today with 'surname'-kun. While I could argue that Japan needs to sort itself out, who am I to tell a repressed country that they need to stop being repressed? However, when it comes to translations it is hard work dragging yourself through long stilted prose, when what is needed is the essence of the sentiment presented in the modern vernacular. Admittedly, anime dubs do great work in this respect and while the male characters may still be beta simps, cowering in a puddle of their own wee, they are far move relatable than if they where speaking like Downton Abbey.
I know the counter argument is that this would be like Shakespeare being performed in modern English, (but that can happen) but even the bard never used honorifics ;-)

Sounds silly, the point of translation is to provide a readable English translation that keeps the essence of the original yet making it available for the larger audience in the first place.

Japanese honorifics convey social relationships, hierarchy, and respect in ways that English lacks. Simply dropping them or replacing them with informal equivalents can strip the dialogue of this, "Young Master Smith" isn't a direct analogue for "Smith-kun" by any means, instead it reflects casual respect or familiarity without the overly formal tone implied. "Kun" is used for anyone the same age or younger than you.

English evolved to function without honorifics, while Japanese relies on them to express subtleties in interpersonal dynamics. A good translation will find ways to adapt these nuances instead of erasing them entirely like you suggest.

Also, comparing Japanese honorifics to "Downton Abbey" English is honestly dumb. Honorifics in Japanese aren't old-fashioned, they're intrinsic to how the language operates today, both languages have evolved in different ways, no language is "stuck" anywhere.

What you want is a proper tailored translation for your tastes which goes against the general idea of how Scanlation is done.

 

[TheDragonMaster]

I'm a weeb therefore I love honorifics. Sorry that you don't feel the same way.

 

[Blocky_Mudkip]

I personally don't mind it that much but I do lean towards not wanting honorifics in my translations.

 

[ankiwi]

I'm fine either way but try to keep it consistent with the rest of translation.

 

[hazzack]

 

[Arin-san]

Bro talks like an anime journalist. "It is verbose VINE BOOM and stagnant VINE BOOM and strained VINE BOOM" lmfaoo okay buddy

 

[ankiwi]

Bro talks like an anime journalist. "It is verbose VINE BOOM and stagnant VINE BOOM and strained VINE BOOM" lmfaoo okay buddy

You read all that? I just read the first two sentences.

 

[Lewd_Beast]

I'm a weeb therefore I love honorifics. Sorry that you don't feel the same way.

As I said, it was just my personal opinion.

 

[Blocky_Mudkip]

It bugs me when honorifics are said aloud with the english tho like in persona. If your dubbing something in English just don't add em.

 

[Angry_Panda]

It bugs me when honorifics are said aloud with the english tho like in persona. If your dubbing something in English just don't add em.

Mudkip-san has spoken.

 

[BakedBanana]

It bugs me when honorifics are said aloud with the english tho like in persona. If your dubbing something in English just don't add em.

Mudkip-san has spoken.

Angry_Panda-teacher-sensei, can we get your second opinion on this topic?

 

[Angry_Panda]

Angry_Panda-teacher-sensei, can we get your second opinion on this topic?

Hmmm...

Honorifics are like seasonings.

One brings out flavor.

Many muddle the dish.

Americans don't use them.

 

[kohelemon]

Personal opinion. It annoys me that translations insist on keeping honorifics. Maybe I should expand that to criticise word for word translations. The Japanese language we see in pop culture media, like LN & manga is equivalent to the English language from a hundred years ago. It is verbose and stagnant and strained. In the west, and in particular in the post war era, language has evolved at a fantastical rate. Can you imagine referring to a school friend as "young master Smith" rather than Smith, John or a nickname? Yet that it what we are largely getting in verbatim translations today with 'surname'-kun. While I could argue that Japan needs to sort itself out, who am I to tell a repressed country that they need to stop being repressed? However, when it comes to translations it is hard work dragging yourself through long stilted prose, when what is needed is the essence of the sentiment presented in the modern vernacular. Admittedly, anime dubs do great work in this respect and while the male characters may still be beta simps, cowering in a puddle of their own wee, they are far move relatable than if they where speaking like Downton Abbey.
I know the counter argument is that this would be like Shakespeare being performed in modern English, (but that can happen) but even the bard never used honorifics ;-)

Think about it this way honorifics are used oddly anyway, but I don't think they're intended to be one-to-one translated as they are. Anon-Kun can just be bro, Anon-Chan something else.

 

[TheDragonMaster]

It bugs me when honorifics are said aloud with the english tho like in persona. If your dubbing something in English just don't add em.

Respectfully disagree.
Persona 3 through 5 actually had great voice actors and the direction did well to tell them to keep the honorifics. If anything it makes Persona as a series stand out from other JRPGs. It's one of the few dubs besides Neptunia I actually like and if they removed the honorifics it would reduce the quality.

But then again this is the opinion of a humble weeb who unironically likes to use honorifics to chat online. Mudkip-san.

 

[TheDragonMaster]

As I said, it was just my personal opinion.

"While I could argue that Japan needs to sort itself out, who am I to tell a repressed country that they need to stop being repressed?"

I didn't want to address it earlier to keep this as civil as it gets but the fact you talk about Japan this way while having an anime style elf doing a porno face as your profile picture really bothers me.

I think you can figure out why.
Sometimes I wonder if people like you actually like the media they consume.

 

[solstice258]

It bugs me when honorifics are said aloud with the english tho like in persona. If your dubbing something in English just don't add em.

Solution: no dubs only subs

 

[alrightcock]

No "disrespect" but opinions like this are why Viz Media Localizations of their manga are mostly dogshit lol but i definitely see where you're coming from since out loud they do sound unnatural but in manga i def prefer for whoever is making the localization to keep them in since it adds "context" but i respect your opinion tho

in anime english dubs tho i dont care if they add them or not

but regarding JP Honorifics i think its a case by case thing in manga instead of "Yes or No" on keeping them

 

[77BLc9JwJGpLVARkamJx]

I like honorifics