Tsuihou Suru Gawa no Monogatari - Ch. 16 - Reconciliation

[77BLc9JwJGpLVARkamJx]

Kek, I doubt the (or a) demon would join either harem master group but who knows.

 

[Dragonshiny7]

Is the Author trying to make his self insert look better ? 😏

Especially Est "forgiving" him after everything he's done, also it might have been a "misunderstanding" at that time, but by now he's already made it reality, which makes his apology feel beyond shallow.

Honestly only way to somehow stop the rating from dropping, would be to kill daru off 🫡

Nah, that'd be too easy. Let's make him go through a Diavolo cycle of endless deaths

 

[SomeConch357]

This shit is straight garbage They painted est as a bad guy and that old swordman as a " good guy "

not at all what happend, they did it very well based on how people would react they kicked him out trying to save him, he did not know that and was just depressed, finds out he is strong and goes back to show them he is strong enough now, sees the guy he thinks is his friend making out (he thinks, it's dark) with the girl he loves and gets mad but after thinking on it like an adult he realized na maybe this was all for the best and now we are here

 

[hurafloyd]

I want to see how badly it ends just to decide how bad I will score this manga.

 

[Kaarme]

Is the Author trying to make his self insert look better ? 😏

Especially Est "forgiving" him after everything he's done, also it might have been a "misunderstanding" at that time, but by now he's already made it reality, which makes his apology feel beyond shallow.

Honestly only way to somehow stop the rating from dropping, would be to kill daru off 🫡

Who's the self-insert supposed to be? The demon?

 

[Crim]

weird how much hate this MC is getting for being a self insert (as if that wasnt par for the course in this genre in the first place) while MC's in much trashier series are considered gods by commenters.

imo the fact that the two of them were able to both admit their mistakes and apologize like functional adults rather than one side being overtly and comically made "the bad guy" is extremely refreshing and already puts this series leagues above 99% of other isekai/party revenge series in terms of basic storytelling. if yall are concerned about "fake drama" then as much as i hate it as well im sorry to say that that's an extremely common occurrence in any kind of story, let alone a party revenge story.

dont get me wrong this story aint no Great Gatsby in terms of storytelling quality but it sure avoids a lot of the common pitfalls some "better" series do.

 

[lsweb]

people fought over why their opinion is the reaseon this manga fell off

 

[demonslender]

even after daru does exactly what they wanted these people still bitch and hate on him. just fucking wow you people couldn't be anymore pathetic. this comment section just screams reddit user infested.

 

[AmethystLord]

Huh. I actually like people talking out their issues like functional adults, even if it took a while to get there. Wish they had started the whole situation that way but here we are.

The only thing I hate about this is the cliche "it's all the misunderstanding" they pulled at the beginning to force the conflict. I was fully expecting Est to become full edgy revenge protag, it's so damn refreshing to see him as an actual character with personal growth.

Looks like other people still hate the fuck out of this manga though.

 

[Rex_Nichts]

This went down all the way to 3.98 from 4.04 last upload. That's a 0.06 ratings dropped. Not as explosive as the last chapter but still a spectacle nonetheless. Now the problem is, there was suddenly an even bigger dogshit than this ever was, so while this rightfully should've landed this manga to 11th place, it was pushed back to the 12th, with that falling star taking comfortably the 4th place after just 2 months and 2 chapters. Now the score to beat is 3.86, which is the manga "Kareshi ga Iru no ni", an NTR hentai doujinshi. It's a tall hurdle but I believe that we can do it. The 11th place rn is 3.92, so it's not that far. Although the competition IS getting tighter and tighter, where every 0.01 point count. Just a little more and we can do this! Let's go!

 

[YamiryuuZero]

By the time this chapter came out in the LN, the author had probably received tons of complaints about the misunderstanding and Daru's attitude towards Est, so he decided to make him apologize and have Est forgive him.

And yet once again, the author doesn't understand what the hell he's writing! The issue has now gone beyond the misunderstanding, the problem here is that Daru let this thing go on for this long, let the friendship between two childhood friends be broken like that and did nothing to mend it up until now when he was the only person who could do anything to save it - but also the only one to gain something for having it broken for this long!


Look at Daru's "apology" here:
-It's your fault I couldn't say anything because you ran away without listening to me;
-I couldn't leave her alone without locking the door;
-I had a lot going on at the time;
-I couldn't say it in front of Athena.

Look how everything he says deflects all of the solutions to the problem and places the responsibility onto Est and Athena.

It's not MY fault that you ran away, after having experienced near death situations twice and a sense of betrayal from your closest friends also twice, that left you with possibly irreparable mental damage. It's YOUR fault for not staying and listening to me! It's not MY fault that I didn't clear the misunderstanding between you and Athena that was caused by me, it's HER fault for being cute (and virgin). It's not MY fault that I didn't say anything at the guild because Athena was there, and I couldn't possibly lose face in front of her, could I? Oh, but don't worry, I did take my time to paint you as the villain in this situation and embrace her in front of you to show whom she trusts now!

Once again, the author does not understand what the issues with his writing are, and what he does to mend them barely scratches the surface and consequently, either in purpose or not, paint Daru as a victim-blaming gaslighter!

Slight spoils for the following chapters, though, Daru takes a back seat for a while after 18 and the story does get much more tolerable during that time!

 

[Rafalga]

even after daru does exactly what they wanted these people still bitch and hate on him. just fucking wow you people couldn't be anymore pathetic. this comment section just screams reddit user infested.

His apology means nothing. It looks exactly like an arsonist standing above the smoldering wreckage he created and saying sorry to the owner. Damage is done beyond repair. He is not giving a real apology anyway. At least not for the giant elephant in the room. He had several instances where he could fix the problem and mend the relationship between the two friends but he choose not to do it because he didn't want to. Any decent human being would immidiately sit down with both sides and explain the situtation. In reality, he is just sorry (author is really) that he is being painted as the bad guy.

It is apperant from how he still doesn't think Athena have the right to know what happpened. She still thinks her life long friend shit on her in public just because they send him away. If she knew what really happened, they would make up in an instant. It almost looks like he doesn't want them to make up. Dude's thought process doesn't make any sense unless he is indeed malicious, though author is trying so hard to prove otherwise.

 

[demonslender]

His apology means nothing. It looks exactly like an arsonist standing above the smoldering wreckage he created and saying sorry to the owner. Damage is done beyond repair. He is not giving a real apology anyway. At least not for the giant elephant in the room. He had several instances where he could fix the problem and mend the relationship between the two friends but he choose not to do it because he didn't want to. Any decent human being would immidiately sit down with both sides and explain the situtation. In reality, he is just sorry (author is really) that he is being painted as the bad guy.

It is apperant from how he still doesn't think Athena have the right to know what happpened. She still thinks her life long friend shit on her in public just because they send him away. If she knew what really happened, they would make up in an instant. It almost looks like he doesn't want them to make up. Dude's thought process doesn't make any sense unless he is indeed malicious, though author is trying so hard to prove otherwise.

trust me that i care not for what you wrote. in fact i didn't read anything past the first sentence because quite frankly as is obvious from my other comment, i don't care why you people hate him. it's pathetic.

 

[asherdales]

even after daru does exactly what they wanted these people still bitch and hate on him. just fucking wow you people couldn't be anymore pathetic. this comment section just screams reddit user infested.

Nah it's just more gaslighting by the author going "see Dale's a good guy, he's apologizing for the misunderstanding! (that he's blaming Est for)" It's so completely obvious that it's written to blame Est to make him accept responsibility and to keep Athena in the dark thinking that Est hates her. To this point I'm pretty sure the rest of the party still thinks that Est is mad at them only for kicking him out.

The whole "misunderstanding" could have been cleared up with Dale not treating Athena like a pure flower that needs to be protected and telling her what went down. "Hey so look. You were drunk and passed out last night and as I was picking you up to put you to bed Est came by and thought you and I kicked him out to be together. You should go talk to him because he probably won't listen to me." But no he had to protect Athena from being hurt (how?) by making sure she couldn't clear up the misunderstanding and keeping her in a state of guilt so he could be her only salvation.

The problem isn't that Dale's a bad guy doing bad guy things and after realizing he apologizes. The problem is that the author is trying to portray Dale as the good guy who does bad things for a "good reason" and it's Est's and the reader's fault for not realizing just how good of a guy he is. It's so obviously gaslighting and we're not buying it.

 

[ankiwi]

not at all what happend, they did it very well based on how people would react they kicked him out trying to save him, he did not know that and was just depressed, finds out he is strong and goes back to show them he is strong enough now, sees the guy he thinks is his friend making out (he thinks, it's dark) with the girl he loves and gets mad but after thinking on it like an adult he realized na maybe this was all for the best and now we are here

I will never understand where people got the idea that the author wanted to paint est as the bad guy. It never seemed that way to me and rereading it I still don't get where people got that. The dark bubbles? The shadow on his face? Or that Dale was a good guy? He's just lazy lol

 

[T-sama]

I remember hearing about a korean (I think?) novel that has a similar premise but handles it better. Haven't read it yet myself though. Think it was, "I became the hero who banished the protagonist" Guy suddenly reincarnates as the hero right as he's banishing the guy but he has no memories from before that moment. Has to try and figure out what the fuck happened before it bites him in the ass. From what I heard, the reason was surprisingly reasonable. There was no sudden awakening, the banished guy was always powerful but was a loose cannon lancer type, never cooperating and causing collateral damage while the hero, despite his arrogant attitude, is actually a proper hero and prioritizes saving civilians above killing the enemy.

Now I wonder if there's adaptation of that, sounds interesting.

 

[Puck2]

I will never understand where people got the idea that the author wanted to paint est as the bad guy. It never seemed that way to me and rereading it I still don't get where people got that. The dark bubbles? The shadow on his face? Or that Dale was a good guy? He's just lazy lol

Well, Daru called him drunk on power (as if his attitude was due to his new powers and not due to the fact that he felt betrayed by them in more than on way) to the point that he felt the urge to "protect" Athena from the mean Est. (his indifferent attitude towards Est is even more obviously in the novel). He didn't tell Athena the real reason for Est's anger, making her believe that Est's change in behaviour was due to his new powers. Meanwhile, he takes Est's position in the party including being close to Athena. (what is really annoying are all the hints to a romantic relationship like going on dates with Athena or loving glances or Frey offering her virginity)
In general, the reason Est was kicked out was because Daru and the elf hid their true powers almost resulting in Est's death.
I don't think that Daru is doing this intentional (making him a bad guy) but he and the story so badly written that he acts like a bad guy (because of his lazy/dumb decisions) from the reader's point of view. His character (behaviour before and after kicking out Est) is too different so that it appears that he waited for Est to being kicked out. The suggestive panels with Athena don't help either.
This chapter would be a step into the right direction if it was the 2nd chapter and not the 16th. At this point Daru's talk /apology is too late. Est has a new party and he won't abandon them because they are also precious friends. And Daru has already replaced Est in the old party as Athena's (emotional) support and possible love interest.
It's still a annoying that Athena doesn't know anything about it at this point of the story. Why couldn't Daru clear up the misunderstanding in front of her? (to not embarrass Est by revealing his love for her? Yes, to destroy their relationship for good is so much better.) The two men "make up", Est gets a closure (including his feelings for Athena) and dumb Athena is completely left out and will never know the truth, still thinking that Est is drunk on power and hates her though all she wanted was to save him. At this point it would be logical that Est goes for Athena (as he wanted to confess right before he kicked out) but he decides to go on and leave everything behind (these kind of MCs are so annoying). They wouldn't have to be in the same party to have a relationship.
In my opinion, the author/mangaka tried to create this very situation (Daru with the girls, Est giving up on Athena and starting a new life) and just at this point realized their bad job. With this chapter they tried to repair everything.
Don't get me wrong. I think this is the first "decent" chapter in this story but it can't repair the false premise of this manga and the "damage" caused by the previous chapters. From this point the manga has the chance to become mediocre but it doesn't change the fact that half of the manga was unbearable for most people. Calling other people pathetic for this feeling (like some other person in this thread did) is plain ignorant.

Spoiler: ending

Even in the end, the author doesn't allow Est or Athena to shine. Athena has to be saved again. Daru is the one who saves Athena even though Est has the power and ability to do easily the same. It makes all this growth plot redundant.

In general, it would have been best to leave out the whole misunderstanding. Est could have left and become more powerful somewhere else. Athena and him could both grow independently making it possible to reconcile/compete later. The misunderstanding and all the suggestive scenes with Daru should have been left out as they have an extreme NTR-vibe. It would have been best to make Daru a side character not forcing the role of the MC on him with all its clichés. It should be the growth story of Athena (growth through effort) and Est (growth through cheat) and their different paths.

 

[ankiwi]

I will never understand where people got the idea that the author wanted to paint est as the bad guy. It never seemed that way to me and rereading it I still don't get where people got that. The dark bubbles? The shadow on his face?

Well, Daru called him drunk on power (as if his attitude was due to his new powers and not due to the fact that he felt betrayed by them in more than on way) to the point that he felt the urge to "protect" Athena from the mean Est. (his indifferent attitude towards Est is even more obviously in the novel). He didn't tell Athena the real reason for Est's anger, making her believe that Est's change in behaviour was due to his new powers. Meanwhile, he takes Est's position in the party including being close to Athena. (what is really annoying are all the hints to a romantic relationship like going on dates with Athena or loving glances or Frey offering her virginity)
In general, the reason Est was kicked out was because Daru and the elf hid their true powers almost resulting in Est's death.
I don't think that Daru is doing this intentional (making him a bad guy) but he and the story so badly written that he acts like a bad guy (because of his lazy/dumb decisions) from the reader's point of view. His character (behaviour before and after kicking out Est) is too different so that it appears that he waited for Est to being kicked out. The suggestive panels with Athena don't help either.
This chapter would be a step into the right direction if it was the 2nd chapter and not the 16th. At this point Daru's talk /apology is too late. Est has a new party and he won't abandon them because they are also precious friends. And Daru has already replaced Est in the old party as Athena's (emotional) support and possible love interest.
It's still a annoying that Athena doesn't know anything about it at this point of the story. Why couldn't Daru clear up the misunderstanding in front of her? (to not embarrass Est by revealing his love for her? Yes, to destroy their relationship for good is so much better.) The two men "make up", Est gets a closure (including his feelings for Athena) and dumb Athena is completely left out and will never know the truth, still thinking that Est is drunk on power and hates her though all she wanted was to save him. At this point it would be logical that Est goes for Athena (as he wanted to confess right before he kicked out) but he decides to go on and leave everything behind (these kind of MCs are so annoying). They wouldn't have to be in the same party to have a relationship.
In my opinion, the author/mangaka tried to create this very situation (Daru with the girls, Est giving up on Athena and starting a new life) and just at this point realized their bad job. With this chapter they tried to repair everything.
Don't get me wrong. I think this is the first "decent" chapter in this story but it can't repair the false premise of this manga and the "damage" caused by the previous chapters. From this point the manga has the chance to become mediocre but it doesn't change the fact that half of the manga was unbearable for most people. Calling other people pathetic for this feeling (like some other person in this thread did) is plain ignorant.

Spoiler: ending

Even in the end, the author doesn't allow Est or Athena to shine. Athena has to be saved again. Daru is the one who saves Athena even though Est has the power and ability to do easily the same. It makes all this growth plot redundant.

In general, it would have been best to leave out the whole misunderstanding. Est could have left and become more powerful somewhere else. Athena and him could both grow independently making it possible to reconcile/compete later. The misunderstanding and all the suggestive scenes with Daru should have been left out as they have an extreme NTR-vibe. It would have been best to make Daru a side character not forcing the role of the MC on him with all its clichés. It should be the growth story of Athena (growth through effort) and Est (growth through cheat) and their different paths.

Bro how does any of that paint est as a bad guy if anything he's just immature kinda like the dragon girl. Also like I said he's lazy he's made that a point. Also from what I remember the elf true power isn't that much of a jump. She's just naturally talented same with the dragon girl. They're both naturally talented and are different from daru. They're more similar to Est with his cheats except they have daru to instruct them now. Daru had to beat the dragon girl for her to settle. Like I said Daru is lazy. He did try to clear it up and got a glare. Then he was too busy training with the party it's not like he can just teleport to est, he's doing his thing too.

 

[asherdales]

Well, Daru called him drunk on power (as if his attitude was due to his new powers and not due to the fact that he felt betrayed by them in more than on way) to the point that he felt the urge to "protect" Athena from the mean Est. (his indifferent attitude towards Est is even more obviously in the novel). He didn't tell Athena the real reason for Est's anger, making her believe that Est's change in behaviour was due to his new powers. Meanwhile, he takes Est's position in the party including being close to Athena. (what is really annoying are all the hints to a romantic relationship like going on dates with Athena or loving glances or Frey offering her virginity)
In general, the reason Est was kicked out was because Daru and the elf hid their true powers almost resulting in Est's death.
I don't think that Daru is doing this intentional (making him a bad guy) but he and the story so badly written that he acts like a bad guy (because of his lazy/dumb decisions) from the reader's point of view. His character (behaviour before and after kicking out Est) is too different so that it appears that he waited for Est to being kicked out. The suggestive panels with Athena don't help either.
This chapter would be a step into the right direction if it was the 2nd chapter and not the 16th. At this point Daru's talk /apology is too late. Est has a new party and he won't abandon them because they are also precious friends. And Daru has already replaced Est in the old party as Athena's (emotional) support and possible love interest.
It's still a annoying that Athena doesn't know anything about it at this point of the story. Why couldn't Daru clear up the misunderstanding in front of her? (to not embarrass Est by revealing his love for her? Yes, to destroy their relationship for good is so much better.) The two men "make up", Est gets a closure (including his feelings for Athena) and dumb Athena is completely left out and will never know the truth, still thinking that Est is drunk on power and hates her though all she wanted was to save him. At this point it would be logical that Est goes for Athena (as he wanted to confess right before he kicked out) but he decides to go on and leave everything behind (these kind of MCs are so annoying). They wouldn't have to be in the same party to have a relationship.
In my opinion, the author/mangaka tried to create this very situation (Daru with the girls, Est giving up on Athena and starting a new life) and just at this point realized their bad job. With this chapter they tried to repair everything.
Don't get me wrong. I think this is the first "decent" chapter in this story but it can't repair the false premise of this manga and the "damage" caused by the previous chapters. From this point the manga has the chance to become mediocre but it doesn't change the fact that half of the manga was unbearable for most people. Calling other people pathetic for this feeling (like some other person in this thread did) is plain ignorant.

Spoiler: ending

Even in the end, the author doesn't allow Est or Athena to shine. Athena has to be saved again. Daru is the one who saves Athena even though Est has the power and ability to do easily the same. It makes all this growth plot redundant.

In general, it would have been best to leave out the whole misunderstanding. Est could have left and become more powerful somewhere else. Athena and him could both grow independently making it possible to reconcile/compete later. The misunderstanding and all the suggestive scenes with Daru should have been left out as they have an extreme NTR-vibe. It would have been best to make Daru a side character not forcing the role of the MC on him with all its clichés. It should be the growth story of Athena (growth through effort) and Est (growth through cheat) and their different paths.

Exactly this. The more I think about this the more I find Dale to be an insert for the white knight incel that has to "protect" the lady. Especially when the supposed premise of the story is how does the banishing party grow from their mistakes but it's just taken over by Dale going from lazy drunk to mentor and "hero" of the party. No one in the original party has any character growth instead focusing on trying to tell the reader how Dale is right and Est is wrong. It's going to get even worse in the future because it's obvious the author is going to make Dale's old party be the ones who saved Athena and Est when they were kids.

Bro how does any of that paint est as a bad guy if anything he's just immature kinda like the dragon girl. Also like I said he's lazy he's made that a point. Also from what I remember the elf true power isn't that much of a jump. She's just naturally talented same with the dragon girl. They're both naturally talented and are different from daru. They're more similar to Est with his cheats except they have daru to instruct them now. Daru had to beat the dragon girl for her to settle. Like I said Daru is lazy. He did try to clear it up and got a glare. Then he was too busy training with the party it's not like he can just teleport to est, he's doing his thing too.

It's quite insidious how the author is going about trying to portray Est as the bad guy and who it's trying to appeal to. Not so much in out right saying it but in how it's shown as Est's character in the setup flipping from being super supportive to abusive towards Athena. In how it's being shown that Est is letting his emotions dictate his actions to be abusive towards her without being able to see reason. It's the author shouting at the reader saying "look at what Est's doing to his old party! How mean of him to be so mistaken in his understanding and letting his emotions control him!"

It's the banished motif but instead of the traditional MC archetype the author is portraying him with the character of the jerk off party leader, being irrationally hateful and parading his harem in the face of his old teammate.

 

[PeakPooPerformance]

I'm getting some strong NTR vibes from this manga. It has an interesting premise but Daru's character completely screws it over. I'm down for new things but not this NTR Cuckobird flying into the party and gaslighting everyone