Tsuihou Suru Gawa no Monogatari - Ch. 20 - Mirialia

[rocksilver]

oh yeah, I completely forgot that asspull, but my point is still valid though, nobody knows about that, so they don't count with it.

Even if he looks bad doesn't change the fact he's  not, he didn't do anything out of malice, you guys can twist yourself into a pretzel all you want, but the story never tried to paint him as evil, much less a ntr protagonist, the worse you can really say about Daru is that he was patronizing with Est, didn't take the situation seriously enough and acted like Est would just understand it by himself in time.

Just like it happens in real life with many people, don't assume malice when it's just stupidity.

I think I can count on one hand where Daru was really described as pure NTR evil, but I think the consensus is that Daru and Est were wasted by bad writing and poor plot contrivances. Athena was written off rather early, and the nobody in general really cares about elf mage and dragon girl, for good reason.

Like you said, the light novel goes into detail about Daru's motivations. But for the majority of readers, they won't just look at the manga, see the dumpster fire, and decide to go to the light novel section to see if there was any justification for his actions. They will take the manga as an accurate description of what the light novel would provide should they be interested in it, which is unlikely.

It really just shows the poor execution of the writer, and whether the proofreaders actually did their job to point out plot holes and inconsistencies.

 

[ciera]

Thank you

 

[T-sama]

I think I can count on one hand where Daru was really described as pure NTR evil, but I think the consensus is that Daru and Est were wasted by bad writing and poor plot contrivances. Athena was written off rather early, and the nobody in general really cares about elf mage and dragon girl, for good reason.

Everyone was wasted unfortunately, not just Daru and Est.

Like you said, the light novel goes into detail about Daru's motivations. But for the majority of readers, they won't just look at the manga, see the dumpster fire, and decide to go to the light novel section to see if there was any justification for his actions. They will take the manga as an accurate description of what the light novel would provide should they be interested in it, which is unlikely.

I think most people don't even imagine there's a light novel, most don't participante in the forum after all, so they probably assume even worse than we do while knowing there's a light novel lol

It really just shows the poor execution of the writer, and whether the proofreaders actually did their job to point out plot holes and inconsistencies.

And somehow the manga is even worse to boot, because it literally shows or says nothing about what they did for Est, makes it look like they just wanted a excuse to kick him out.

 

[kaminomikan]

when you analyze elves in all the works, seems like that race is shitty most of the time...

 

[T-sama]

when you analyze elves in all the works, seems like that race is shitty most of the time...

Elves are just useful to be lewded, they are erofu indeed

 

[Rafalga]

She is an in-universe gachikoi lol. It just looks like author is trying to portray her devotion as something inspiring / character depth moment but considering what she did when Est was there, it just makes it seem sick. Like all gachikois actually are. Also, if all of them were to die right there, nobody would care. Characters are THAT bad.

 

[OSAITUS]

oh yeah, I completely forgot that asspull, but my point is still valid though, nobody knows about that, so they don't count with it.

Even if he looks bad doesn't change the fact he's  not, he didn't do anything out of malice, you guys can twist yourself into a pretzel all you want, but the story never tried to paint him as evil, much less as a ntr protagonist, the worse you can really say about Daru is that he was patronizing with Est, didn't take the situation seriously enough and acted like Est would just understand it by himself in time.

Just like it happens in real life with many people, don't assume malice when it's just stupidity.

I agree, the story does not say he is bad... but (and I´m only talking about the manga) if you put together everything he has done, he seemed far too chill just letting Est go and die in a dungeon. The story already told us that Daru is experienced, and that little speech that he gives Est about not going to rescue Athena and co., and the way he talked with everyone while training them, if that guy witness Est being kicked out of the party for being weak and a burden, if he knew that Est had feelings for Athena... you can´t possibly tell me that he did not knew that the first thing Est would do is going to the dungeon (the very thing they were trying to prevent by the way) to get stronger. he did not fail for being stupid, he knew but did nothing to prevent it and the story also told us that he is not sorry about kicking him out...

But again those are just things you can infer from the story, the story so far has not said, and I´m pretty sure will never say, that Daru is evil or that he has done a bad thing

 

[T-sama]

I agree, the story does not say he is bad... but (and I´m only talking about the manga) if you put together everything he has done, he seemed far too chill just letting Est go and die in a dungeon. The story already told us that Daru is experienced, and that little speech that he gives Est about not going to rescue Athena and co., and the way he talked with everyone while training them, if that guy witness Est being kicked out of the party for being weak and a burden, if he knew that Est had feelings for Athena... you can´t possibly tell me that he did not knew that the first thing Est would do is going to the dungeon (the very thing they were trying to prevent by the way) to get stronger. he did not fail for being stupid, he knew but did nothing to prevent it and the story also told us that he is not sorry about kicking him out...

But again those are just things you can infer from the story, the story so far has not said, and I´m pretty sure will never say, that Daru is evil or that he has done a bad thing

That's the thing, all you said pretty much just point to how poorly written the entire story is, this is basically typical kicked from party story, except we're not following the usual protagonist side, it was arguably always intended to portray them as not being bad people like it usually is.

But then we start get more exposition about the characters, especially Daru, on how he's supposedly super experienced and can teach everyone to become better, and everything falls apart because it is contradictory to the beginning, if he was so experienced and so good at teaching, even if Est couldn't become a better fighter, how the fuck there's no other ways for him to contribute or maybe defend himself? How Athena stays clueless the entire fucking series? And other issues.

Really, it makes look like author didn't really think the story through and made shit as it advanced, because the beginning arguably doesn't fit with all we learn as the story advances, at bare minimum makes Daru look even more like a completely incompetent leader.

 

[T-sama]

She is an in-universe gachikoi lol. It just looks like author is trying to portray her devotion as something inspiring / character depth moment but considering what she did when Est was there, it just makes it seem sick. Like all gachikois actually are. Also, if all of them were to die right there, nobody would care. Characters are THAT bad.

The fact is that she's just as much of a simp as Est was, it makes her look pretty hypocritical lol

 

[wankerLin]

Good at using magic
Didn't even know Athena got buffed
Lmao she's dumb and hypocritical

 

[TestAddress]

Daru don't need to be bad to do all the shit he did, so saying that realistically he should be interpreted in a bad light is a stretch, even in real like good people fuck up all the time for bad decisions and lack of communication.

As for the misunderstanding, it's undeniable Daru fucked up, but it wasn't out of malice, people fuck up like that all time, plus half of the problem in that case was absolutely Est, he assumed they were having sex right there in the floor in the middle of the room, Est threw a fit like a simp because he assumed the worst of the situation and ran away.

Daru isn't overpowered though, he's just more experienced, and of course elf want him to show up, they're out of their depth fighting a fucking demon, how you expect them to not want their leader to come and help?

Wait till you see Daru one-slash that demon like a slime.

Miralia will die already, I guess we are just being left in suspense.

 

[Rex_Nichts]

oh yeah, I completely forgot that asspull, but my point is still valid though, nobody knows about that, so they don't count with it.

Even if he looks bad doesn't change the fact he's  not, he didn't do anything out of malice, you guys can twist yourself into a pretzel all you want, but the story never tried to paint him as evil, much less as a ntr protagonist, the worse you can really say about Daru is that he was patronizing with Est, didn't take the situation seriously enough and acted like Est would just understand it by himself in time.

Just like it happens in real life with many people, don't assume malice when it's just stupidity.

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions" -St. Bernard of Clairvaux

Even if he wasn't evil, his stupidity is villainous. No matter the intention, if the result causes harm on someone, then that action is bad. Or if it inflicted considerable damage to their mental, physical, or emotional health then it's downright evil. Even if a saint wanted to feed a village in famine, if it resulted in the people having allergic reaction then that action would be considered evil. Because some people could die from it.

 

[TitanFiber]

It's funny how they allegedly grow but at the same time they are completely dependent on Daru. What's the difference to Est again?

They literally explained it a couple of chapters ago. Est was ready to throw hands with the demon until Daru convinced him that he needs to think like a leader and prioritize his own party’s safety. It’s implied that Est can do what Daru is setting out to do, but even so, that wasn’t always the case with Est.

 

[T-sama]

Wait till you see Daru one-slash that demon like a slime.

Miralia will die already, I guess we are just being left in suspense.

It's always suspense no matter how obvious the twist is lol

"The road to hell is paved with good intentions" -St. Bernard of Clairvaux

Even if he wasn't evil, his stupidity is villainous. No matter the intention, if the result causes harm on someone, then that action is bad. Or if it inflicted considerable damage to their mental, physical, or emotional health then it's downright evil. Even if a saint wanted to feed a village in famine, if it resulted in the people having allergic reaction then that action would be considered evil. Because some people could die from it.

Stupidity isn't villainous or good, stupidity is just stupidity, either way in the end it's nothing but typical poorly written story, you're not really supposed to read him as a bad character, just goes to show how no matter how good the idea, execution is everything for it to actually end good or bad.

 

[asherdales]

This is kinda what I was hoping for in the beginning where the rest of the party realizes they're actually weak, put aside their own egos, and work together to become stronger without someone telling them that.

As for the misunderstanding, it's undeniable Daru fucked up, but it wasn't out of malice, people fuck up like that all time, plus half of the problem in that case was absolutely Est, he assumed they were having sex right there in the floor in the middle of the room, Est threw a fit like a simp because he assumed the worst of the situation and ran away.

I said it in an earlier chapter that Dale could have explained it to Athena the next day when she was sober so she could go talk to Est but instead Dale did nothing about it.

Even if he looks bad doesn't change the fact he's  not, he didn't do anything out of malice, you guys can twist yourself into a pretzel all you want, but the story never tried to paint him as evil, much less as a ntr protagonist, the worse you can really say about Daru is that he was patronizing with Est, didn't take the situation seriously enough and acted like Est would just understand it by himself in time.

The story the entire time has been trying to paint Dale as the hero. First by defending Est against banishment, then with mentoring the party, then defending Athena from Est's verbal attack, then enlightening Est about his mistake in perception of the night Est walked in on them, and then doing the "self sacrifice" for the good of Est's party.

The readers are perceiving Dale as evil because he's doing the good guy things for his own selfish reasons. Now it would be good writing if that was the intention of the writer but to me it reads more like a white knight self insert character.

Like you said, the light novel goes into detail about Daru's motivations. But for the majority of readers, they won't just look at the manga, see the dumpster fire, and decide to go to the light novel section to see if there was any justification for his actions. They will take the manga as an accurate description of what the light novel would provide should they be interested in it, which is unlikely.

Wasn't the LN also almost universally lambasted for the same crap writing as well?

 

[T-sama]

This is kinda what I was hoping for in the beginning where the rest of the party realizes they're actually weak, put aside their own egos, and work together to become stronger without someone telling them that.

They would need a brain for that lol

I said it in an earlier chapter that Dale could have explained it to Athena the next day when she was sober so she could go talk to Est but instead Dale did nothing about it.

Typical drama for drama sake unfortunately

The story the entire time has been trying to paint Dale as the hero. First by defending Est against banishment, then with mentoring the party, then defending Athena from Est's verbal attack, then enlightening Est about his mistake in perception of the night Est walked in on them, and then doing the "self sacrifice" for the good of Est's party.

The readers are perceiving Dale as evil because he's doing the good guy things for his own selfish reasons. Now it would be good writing if that was the intention of the writer but to me it reads more like a white knight self insert character.

I don't think he's necessarily doing anything for selfish reasons, but I do agree it can absolutely be read as such due to how poorly written it is.

And I agree, Daru actually being evil would have been infinitely more interesting, instead we get Daru painted as the good guy only because it's the author intention, even though most his actions are dumb lol

Wasn't the LN also almost universally lambasted for the same crap writing as well?

Pretty sure someone said it was

 

[Rex_Nichts]

just goes to show how no matter how good the idea, execution is everything for it to actually end good or bad.

You said it yourself. Execution is terrible. Therefore, Daru is bad.

 

[T-sama]

You said it yourself. Execution is terrible. Therefore, Daru is bad.

No, execution being terrible doesn't make him bad, just makes him poorly written.

 

[Rex_Nichts]

just goes to show how no matter how good the idea, execution is everything for it to actually end good or bad.

No, execution being terrible doesn't make him bad, just makes him poorly written.

You don't even believe in the shit you're saying.

 

[T-sama]

You don't even believe in the shit you're saying.

What I believe is pretty simple, Daru is at no point a bad person, he's just poorly written, as is everything else.

Don't forget that a lot of people here created an entire narrative of how he's some evil manipulative scumbag who wanted to ntr Est, that's what I always argued against, sure it was funny for a while, but it got old fast.