Tsuihou Suru Gawa no Monogatari - Vol. 1 Ch. 6 - Declaration

[Puck2]

Alright, I'm a fan of NTR, but I will have to disagree with you, there's nothing to like about Daru x Athena even from that perspective.

I like to equate NTR with the slasher horror genre - it's all about the protagonists being placed in a hopeless situation they have no way of overcoming and just watching them suffer until the story ends. NTR is different from cheating because the characters don't need to be in a romantic relationship, even a one-sided crush is enough to create a good NTR story (conversely, a character cheating isn't necessarily NTR because the husband/boyfriend might not even show up in the story).

This story fails as NTR because we are not exploring the feelings of the guy with one-sided feelings actually being cucked. We're watching things from Daru's POV, and all we see is Est being a dick (to the people that deserve it) here and there while Daru himself acts like a hypocrite at every turn.

NTR is like an emotional roller coaster - the shock of having your pure and wholesome crush being destroyed by someone more proactive than you taking the lead, finding out the girl you believed to be gentle and loyal was a kinky slut that will have sex with everyone else but never you, being forced to watch your significant other r**ed in front of you and realizing she's enjoying it, or any other form of having your lover stolen from you when you could have done something to prevent but couldn't because you were either physically powerless or took too long to act, hence the 寝/Ne (sleep) in 寝取られ/Netorare (having something taken from you while you sleep).

This story fails as an NTR because Est's feelings towards Athena are nothing more than a trigger for him to believe they wanted him gone so they could bang, but after that scene of him misunderstanding things, it's all gone. Clearly the only thing he feels for her is spite now, and since we're not even exploring his POV, the story fails as NTR as well.

So, no, I don't think even NTR fans would enjoy Daru x Athena.

Ok, obviously I'm not an expert for NTR but even after your explanation I don't think I could enjoy it ;-)

I think the problem with this manga is, even though we don't get any insights to Est's feeling (because he's just a clumsy try of the author to get his idea of the story started and also his biggest mistake) many readers can imagine how he must be feeling. It's easier to empathize with him because his actions make sense regarding the blows he had to take. In my opinion, people (like Daru in the webnovel) who state "that he should have fought harder for her and he deserves this because he is weak" lack a bit of empathy.
Contrary to their "good intentions" the other characters in this story don't act accordingly. They are cold and indifferent (like Daru in the webnovel) and don't even try to reconcile with Est.

Reading this manga feels like cheering for the bullies and blaming the victim because it's his fault that he's being bullied. Sure, they're not actively hurting him but it's clear that the many ambiguous and suggestive actions caused by Daru are mentally hurting him (the readers even more because we can see all his sleazy lines/thoughts which Est luckily can't).
But blaming the victim for being weak (it's his fault that his girl got stolen, he should have been stronger) sadly is a trend in nowadays society.

The author tries to deceive the readers by giving Est op-skills and making his former party the weak victims but everybody knows that Est will be the person who will lose in the end. They will become stronger than him and he will be left with his mental scars.
Est gets nothing (love, fame, friends), Daru gets everything. That's what Est deserves for loving Athena and supporting her all the time (according to the author and some readers). Sure, Athena has no obligation to love him but this is definitely not the destiny he deserves.

 

[YamiryuuZero]

Ok, obviously I'm not an expert for NTR but even after your explanation I don't think I could enjoy it ;-)

I think the problem with this manga is, even though we don't get any insights to Est's feeling (because he's just a clumsy try of the author to get his idea of the story started and also his biggest mistake) many readers can imagine how he must be feeling. It's easier to empathize with him because his actions make sense regarding the blows he had to take. In my opinion, people (like Daru in the webnovel) who state "that he should have fought harder for her and he deserves this because he is weak" lack a bit of empathy.
Contrary to their "good intentions" the other characters in this story don't act accordingly. They are cold and indifferent (like Daru in the webnovel) and don't even try to reconcile with Est.

Reading this manga feels like cheering for the bullies and blaming the victim because it's his fault that he's being bullied. Sure, they're not actively hurting him but it's clear that the many ambiguous and suggestive actions caused by Daru are mentally hurting him (the readers even more because we can see all his sleazy lines/thoughts which Est luckily can't).
But blaming the victim for being weak (it's his fault that his girl got stolen, he should have been stronger) sadly is a trend in nowadays society.

The author tries to deceive the readers by giving Est op-skills and making his former party the weak victims but everybody knows that Est will be the person who will lose in the end. They will become stronger than him and he will be left with his mental scars.
Est gets nothing (love, fame, friends), Daru gets everything. That's what Est deserves for loving Athena and supporting her all the time (according to the author and some readers). Sure, Athena has no obligation to love him but this is definitely not the destiny he deserves.

It's okay, I don't enjoy horror either, but I'm fine with NTR.

Anyways, this whole story could have been avoided if Daru had suggested to train Est instead of going with the idea of kicking him out of the party "for his sake."

Athena also should have been patient, not only with him, but with herself as well. She just wants to speedrun becoming the strongest instead of taking the necessary steps to the point she's willing to blame someone else for HER own failings (I've said this before, but it's the front liner's job to make sure the back liners are out of the monster's range, if they had done crowd control properly he wouldn't have gotten injured - and what if it were the lesbian elf mage that got hurt instead of him, would she have kicked HER out of the party instead, since she's also in love with Athena?).

You put it best when you said it feels like it's cheering for the bullies, but I would also like to add that they're unintentional bullies that believe they're hurting you for your own good. When a bully is punching you, they might get tired and stop. But a bully that is hurting you for your own good will never stop punching, because it's how they're showing how much they love an care for you.

Athena didn't even think about the possibility of Est going alone to the labyrinth and dying on his own because he had no party, friends, money or a even a place to stay, but that's exactly what almost happened. And she didn't think about it because she had thought her punching him was her showing him love.

This is sick!

 

[ElfWastaken]

Oh he's gone gone

 

[Koyomiya]

I understand the need to portray the party in a sympathetic manner. But none of that sympathy is actually working, so the author paints Est as the evil jealous vengeful type to compensate? Dumb as hell

 

[Puck2]

I understand the need to portray the party in a sympathetic manner. But none of that sympathy is actually working, so the author paints Est as the evil jealous vengeful type to compensate? Dumb as hell

Guess the author also kicked out all the people from his team who tried to improve the story thinking that he is right and they are wrong ^^

 

[AMicrowave]

Yes, drunk on power after he nearly DIED, because they pretty much told him fuck off, so he isn't exactly drunk on power, rather fueled by hatred, since they all pretty much turned against him in the worst way they could've done it.

he nearly died from his own stupidity, it's his own fault

 

[SpecialProjectY]

he nearly died from his own stupidity, it's his own fault

*He nearly died due to being heartbroken and trying to get back on his feet on his own, because nobody cared for his well being although Daru is a "party strategic genius".

It's the bottom of the swamp gunk tier party fault.

 

[TestAddress]

Not surprised, it’s hard to find any likeable characters or reason to care about them. Together with the story being average it doesn’t really have much going for it for now.

We R lucky it ended ch 33.

 

[TestAddress]

Hmm, I want to write something smart, but I'm drawing blanks. So have this Cat instead

Spoiler: Cat

Author probably copied some ai somewhere. Is Japan really this generic, like the editor-powered 40-something lottery ticket to another world??? It never felt like isekai, and more like money laundering to another war torn country in middle east.

 

[phy_sanda]

I guess this manga has early "completed" status for a reason huh?
I mean, is there really a need for villainizing characters in this story?
In the first place "The Story of the Banisher Side" is already included in these kind of story. It's pretty common. Were you trying to make it niche like? Well all you did was smeared s*** on it. Congrats.
1/10

 

[demonslender]

i still find it hilarious how everyone is mad at daru all while est is being a prissy little butthurt bitch who still refuses to listen to any explanation. how can anyone sympathize with him even now. at this point i'm starting to realize just how little reading comprehension everyone in this comment section has. basically everyone is making est out to be the protagonist and villainizing daru when he's being the only sensible person in this entire story.

 

[virx]

With how this is going it's old man x a woman 5 year younger relationship huh 😭

Est probably gonna end up like one of those villain where he able to reconcile with his old party but he died in the end