- Joined
- Nov 13, 2019
- Messages
- 9
Ahhhh!!! Love this one so much! ^_^ Can't wait for more! I already read up the last chapter... moar please? moar?
Villains Are Destined to Die
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 3,602
11 chapters in, there are two ways I can read this so far (assuming no huge about-face-turns looming in the future):
1. A thriller/romance with a bunch of bad ideas in a fairy-tale of abuse, with minor accidental victim-blaming and huge readiness to excuse abusers the moment they change their tone (which they do just about at the drop of a hat, supposedly after the better part of a decade of abusing).
2. A strange sort of subtle S&M fantasy.
Either way it's entertaining as dark moody thriller-ish romance stuff in a fantasy-nobility setting... but the takeaways and morals of the story are just godawful.
1. A thriller/romance with a bunch of bad ideas in a fairy-tale of abuse, with minor accidental victim-blaming and huge readiness to excuse abusers the moment they change their tone (which they do just about at the drop of a hat, supposedly after the better part of a decade of abusing).
2. A strange sort of subtle S&M fantasy.
Either way it's entertaining as dark moody thriller-ish romance stuff in a fantasy-nobility setting... but the takeaways and morals of the story are just godawful.
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 3,602
@OrangePeelEater:
First off, IRL, we can't make games that respond sensibly to fully free-form user input, like here. I mean, you can easily imagine any response to natural-language processing of input would be, well, about as smooth as whatever a chat-bot can do at best. But more fundamentally: Story AI that adapts smoothly to whatever you do in a free-form manner is basically the holy grail of Story AI; unfortunately there are good reasons to think that that may be an AI-complete problem (that is, roughly, something where your AI needs to basically be a full conscious thinking human brain, or at least something similar or equivalent, to complete the task. We don't have those.)
Now, on the more experimental end of storytelling AI there's a lot of stuff we can do with smoke and mirrors when restricting the sorts of actions the player can make, to make things respond dynamically within a certain framework to player actions, using for instance strict formalized models of storytelling (which are a thing)... but all the ones I've known that take this to the extreme are experimental oddities, wherein you can totally see after playing a few minutes what's actually going on and how limited the framework really is. Indeed, games that actually go this far are really rare because they tend to be really clunky and awkward and (despite all the work involved, it's not easy stuff) not as immersive of storytelling as other, easier things non-AI (or very minimal AI) storytelling can do.
(An aside: There's stuff like The Sims that is a simulation with sets of rules about "how the world works" in which we as users can pick out stories from what happens... that's called "emergent storytelling" (as in, the humans playing the game may perceive elaborate stories in what's going on, but that's because we're good at filling in the blanks when a lot of the details are vague) and doesn't work for something with specific character interactions and a firmly-directed plot like a normal visual-novel-sort-of-thing would be.)
...Disclaimer: Most of this is from taking an undergraduate class a decade ago from a leading person in story-in-game-AI research? (...which is a tiny field XD) However I'm speaking in general-enough terms that I think it's still applicable? And anyway I'm not given to understand we've had any fundamental breakthroughs on this front. Though it's been a couple years since last I dug into it.
If you want to know yourself what current bleeding-edge is, though, you can start by googling "storytelling AI". There's often fascinating stuff to read, since the problem itself is fascinating... Do be wary of hype, though: As with most research-y stuff, news articles and summary statements, be they academic or commercial-sector, tend to way overblow the potential of any new developments. Like, the first result I see right now reads blatantly like a thinly-veiled hyped-up advertisement for some company whose "AI system" is... probably kind of garbage and unusable (though I could be wrong, you never know, but that would be the usual thing).
First off, IRL, we can't make games that respond sensibly to fully free-form user input, like here. I mean, you can easily imagine any response to natural-language processing of input would be, well, about as smooth as whatever a chat-bot can do at best. But more fundamentally: Story AI that adapts smoothly to whatever you do in a free-form manner is basically the holy grail of Story AI; unfortunately there are good reasons to think that that may be an AI-complete problem (that is, roughly, something where your AI needs to basically be a full conscious thinking human brain, or at least something similar or equivalent, to complete the task. We don't have those.)
Now, on the more experimental end of storytelling AI there's a lot of stuff we can do with smoke and mirrors when restricting the sorts of actions the player can make, to make things respond dynamically within a certain framework to player actions, using for instance strict formalized models of storytelling (which are a thing)... but all the ones I've known that take this to the extreme are experimental oddities, wherein you can totally see after playing a few minutes what's actually going on and how limited the framework really is. Indeed, games that actually go this far are really rare because they tend to be really clunky and awkward and (despite all the work involved, it's not easy stuff) not as immersive of storytelling as other, easier things non-AI (or very minimal AI) storytelling can do.
(An aside: There's stuff like The Sims that is a simulation with sets of rules about "how the world works" in which we as users can pick out stories from what happens... that's called "emergent storytelling" (as in, the humans playing the game may perceive elaborate stories in what's going on, but that's because we're good at filling in the blanks when a lot of the details are vague) and doesn't work for something with specific character interactions and a firmly-directed plot like a normal visual-novel-sort-of-thing would be.)
...Disclaimer: Most of this is from taking an undergraduate class a decade ago from a leading person in story-in-game-AI research? (...which is a tiny field XD) However I'm speaking in general-enough terms that I think it's still applicable? And anyway I'm not given to understand we've had any fundamental breakthroughs on this front. Though it's been a couple years since last I dug into it.
If you want to know yourself what current bleeding-edge is, though, you can start by googling "storytelling AI". There's often fascinating stuff to read, since the problem itself is fascinating... Do be wary of hype, though: As with most research-y stuff, news articles and summary statements, be they academic or commercial-sector, tend to way overblow the potential of any new developments. Like, the first result I see right now reads blatantly like a thinly-veiled hyped-up advertisement for some company whose "AI system" is... probably kind of garbage and unusable (though I could be wrong, you never know, but that would be the usual thing).
- Joined
- Feb 8, 2020
- Messages
- 5
Why is he so darn cute ugh pink hair is now my thing
- Joined
- Apr 3, 2020
- Messages
- 115
2HEND1 YOU READ THE NOVEL?! SPILL THE TEA SIS🤯
- Joined
- Mar 17, 2019
- Messages
- 18
Ugh all of these otome webtoon universes and their plots are exactly the same regurgitated nonsense, girl dies, transports to a fantasy world recoveries all of her previous memories within the span of 10 pages, and tries to defy fate and her death (which we know never happens anyways because the mc has plot armor) gets her own harem and the original goal is quickly forgotten in favor of which guy she choo choos ( ˘ ³˘)♥ Look, I'm not saying this type of plot cant be interesting, but it has to be done RIGHT. which often is not the case.
idk please tell me if I'm just wasting my time here, by answers some of these questions
is the female lead another hair brained idiot?
if she abused and falls in love with her abuser? (jerk trope)
is the female MC assertive and take initiative in controlling her fate? love life?
is she oblivious to the feelings of every males interest towards her?
is she some pure hearted virgin archetype that is kind to everyone that treats her like shit?
anyone of these makes my blood pressure sky rocket so in the interest of looking out for my own health I would like someone who has read this to warn me before I get into it
idk please tell me if I'm just wasting my time here, by answers some of these questions
is the female lead another hair brained idiot?
if she abused and falls in love with her abuser? (jerk trope)
is the female MC assertive and take initiative in controlling her fate? love life?
is she oblivious to the feelings of every males interest towards her?
is she some pure hearted virgin archetype that is kind to everyone that treats her like shit?
anyone of these makes my blood pressure sky rocket so in the interest of looking out for my own health I would like someone who has read this to warn me before I get into it
Member
- Joined
- May 7, 2018
- Messages
- 395
Member
- Joined
- May 31, 2020
- Messages
- 164
@masticatious It’s pretty good. The art is amazing
and the mc isnt(im not sure YET) really oblivious to the feelings cuz there is a percentage that says their favourability. She’s the type to plan things out
- Joined
- May 15, 2018
- Messages
- 110
@Booden @masticatious
More like:
no
not far enough into the story for that
yes
not far enough to make a statement about that
not until now
Its 20 chapters in...
More like:
no
not far enough into the story for that
yes
not far enough to make a statement about that
not until now
Its 20 chapters in...
Group Leader
- Joined
- Aug 9, 2019
- Messages
- 481
@masticatious I read some novel spoilers, so I can give you a few answers.
She is probably my very favorite otome villainess survival character.
She is definitely not the type to be lovingly kind to those who wrong her. She is the type that holds grudges. If she behaves in that sort of sweet virgin archetype way, it’s an act for the sake of her goals. She’s a somewhat damaged person who has a lot of difficulty with people thanks to her upbringing. She does not become all happy happy love love with her abusers. She somewhat repairs her relationships with the brothers (the only ones who she really knew long enough to be abusers) by the end, but she doesn’t end up with either of them and their relationship is never fully without cracks. She does take a lot of initiative, and is intelligent, not an air headed idiot. Whether she is assertive or meek is something she decides by the situation according to what will be most beneficent to her survival (which really is at risk a lot of the time), because she is willing to throw away pride in favor of life. On the target characters,
the relationships are not all lovely devoted love. There are the strained relationships with the brothers I mentioned, a character who becomes very obsessive yandere, and her relationship with the male lead has plenty of sincerely believable misunderstandings and conflicts at the start.
Thank you so much for translating! ^o^
Member
- Joined
- Aug 22, 2019
- Messages
- 441
These characters are just so fake. I'm so sick with them acting like how they're acting. They knew everything about everything ever since they've known her. I mean who would believe that they didn't know what the servants did to her? Who wanna believe that they didn't understand why she was acting like that? These people are just a bunch of fucking dickhead jerks! 😡 Bipolar bastards! 😤
