Vinland Saga - Vol. 24 Ch. 172 - Sailing West Part 6
- Thread starter MangaDex
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The story is not really doing a great job at showing us Hild's inner struggle seeing her target of vengeance be a peaceable kind man.
At this point it just feels like she isnt progressing as a character since we first traveled with her.
At this point it just feels like she isnt progressing as a character since we first traveled with her.
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This is like Man Ray vs Patrick
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Fuck hild she is just a side character, thorfin is tje one with the struggle, he surpassed where his father left off and failed. Now the son is at an impasse which makes it the more appealing, i just hope this dont end up gantz tier or SAC 😤 for the ending.
@Silberkreuz You're right, but I feel like having her overreact to nothing like this is a reminder about how little she's progressed, because the author's about to do something about that.
It'd be really weird to have her just go "hey you don't seem regretful enough, don't forget that I exist and have my whole subplot" for no reason. When she's gotten trigger happy in the past it's usually during a pressing situation to add chaos and complicate things further, this one feels like the start of a character arc to me.
It'd be really weird to have her just go "hey you don't seem regretful enough, don't forget that I exist and have my whole subplot" for no reason. When she's gotten trigger happy in the past it's usually during a pressing situation to add chaos and complicate things further, this one feels like the start of a character arc to me.
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Honestly Eynar is being somewhat reasonable and responsible here while Thorfinn is being completely naive and ignorant about the situation. To have peace you must be prepared for war and furthermore blaming evil deeds on a tool just shows how stupid Thorfinn is being. You can still commit evil deeds with other tools and even then weapons made for war can still be used just for defense.
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I don't really agree with thorfinn on this one. War existed before swords and exists nowadays without them. The common denominator for war is man, not the tools he uses. Self defense does not propagate war, it just adds another layer of complexity to it. I really hope the author doesn't cop out and makes the solution thorfinn tries actually succeed against all the odds. It SHOULD fail. Horribly and tragically, even.
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ok so basically nothing happened. nice.
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@Arkos
I don't think Thorfinn is being naive at all. He's just sticking to his ideal. Naive is being ignorant, he knows the dangers, but he's not willing to give up on his ideal for the sake of safety. Nor does he truly think it's a sword's fault that evil deeds exist. It's simply that when someone carries a weapon, they carry with them a sense of false assurance and/or aggression. I don't know where you live, but if someone has a gun in a holster and approaches you, it doesn't matter how polite they are, it creates a sense of unease. Now if that person sees you as a threat for any reason (real or imagined), their mind is going to swing immediately to using their gun. Now you suddenly have a hostile situation, which can cause violence over something.
Also, what you're saying isn't exactly true. True to history, the first settlers, both Scandinavian and Western European didn't immediately end up in a war with the natives as soon as they landed. It only started turning bad when the exploitation and oppression came in. The first people that come in contact with other groups of people are rarely people that are ready for war, they're usually explorers. Columbus is the worst example, but generally speaking, the first exchanges are peaceful.
I don't think Thorfinn is being naive at all. He's just sticking to his ideal. Naive is being ignorant, he knows the dangers, but he's not willing to give up on his ideal for the sake of safety. Nor does he truly think it's a sword's fault that evil deeds exist. It's simply that when someone carries a weapon, they carry with them a sense of false assurance and/or aggression. I don't know where you live, but if someone has a gun in a holster and approaches you, it doesn't matter how polite they are, it creates a sense of unease. Now if that person sees you as a threat for any reason (real or imagined), their mind is going to swing immediately to using their gun. Now you suddenly have a hostile situation, which can cause violence over something.
Also, what you're saying isn't exactly true. True to history, the first settlers, both Scandinavian and Western European didn't immediately end up in a war with the natives as soon as they landed. It only started turning bad when the exploitation and oppression came in. The first people that come in contact with other groups of people are rarely people that are ready for war, they're usually explorers. Columbus is the worst example, but generally speaking, the first exchanges are peaceful.
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@sixfish11 according to history yes...
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@DizzyDazzle okay I never commented on how history panned out for them as I already knew what happened. I dont see how I was proven wrong in that aspect as I said that in order to have peace you must be prepared for war. Hell you just screwed yourself at the end when you include that the natives were screwed over by oppression and exploitation. GEE WILLICKERS WONDER WHAT WOULD OF HELPED IN THAT REGARD. MAYBE WEAPONS???
What I am referring to is the naive notion Thorfinn brought up and Hild quickly pointed out. Thorfinn bitches about a weapon encouraging the idea to use it for evil deeds when as I stated there are plenty of tools to do that they are bringing with like bows and spears. You could easily use the argument you used if someone walks up to you with a bow or spear and said situation turns hostile then those tools will be used. Saying "oh but only sword encourages said behavior" is still naive and ignorant. War and killing uses many tools and hell there were battle maniacs in previous chapters THAT USED SPEARS AND AXES. TOOLS THEY ARE BRINGING WITH. I am criticizing Thorfinn bitching about a tool for war that could be used in a hostile situation when you have plenty of other tools for it that could do the same and has been proven by the manga itself.
What I am referring to is the naive notion Thorfinn brought up and Hild quickly pointed out. Thorfinn bitches about a weapon encouraging the idea to use it for evil deeds when as I stated there are plenty of tools to do that they are bringing with like bows and spears. You could easily use the argument you used if someone walks up to you with a bow or spear and said situation turns hostile then those tools will be used. Saying "oh but only sword encourages said behavior" is still naive and ignorant. War and killing uses many tools and hell there were battle maniacs in previous chapters THAT USED SPEARS AND AXES. TOOLS THEY ARE BRINGING WITH. I am criticizing Thorfinn bitching about a tool for war that could be used in a hostile situation when you have plenty of other tools for it that could do the same and has been proven by the manga itself.
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Dang so sad the author went this way with thorfin. really wished he ended up more moderate rather than complete ultra pacifist. this whole no weapons no war thing is simply impossible because as humans we are incapable of getting along with absolutely everyone. lets say the first natives thorfin and his crew meet are peace loving pacifist willing to leave them alone. who's to say that the other 500+ tribes are the same. chances are high that there are a few ambitions war mongers in Vinland. what's gonna happen then.
rather than becoming this super anti weapons person he should he become more grey, not fearing the tool as this brain washing device but instead understanding that with great power comes great responsibilities.
rather than becoming this super anti weapons person he should he become more grey, not fearing the tool as this brain washing device but instead understanding that with great power comes great responsibilities.
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@Arkos
Spears and bows are used to hunt animals, while axes are also for wood chopping.
A swords is however only used for killing other humans. Bringing swords signals bad intent to other people much more than any other tool. Peasants and other farmers usually don't have swords, only soldiers do. Thorfinn intends to signal to the natives that they come in peace as farmers, and not as warriors.
Spears and bows are used to hunt animals, while axes are also for wood chopping.
A swords is however only used for killing other humans. Bringing swords signals bad intent to other people much more than any other tool. Peasants and other farmers usually don't have swords, only soldiers do. Thorfinn intends to signal to the natives that they come in peace as farmers, and not as warriors.
