Yuri is absolutely dogshit. Change my mind.

[Halo]

Including the fact that more men will become ugly bastards and then proceed to mindbreak said yuri couples.

Outdated logic.

Spoiler

Spoiler

Spoiler

The only true ship is to ship every character with every other character

This is what doujinshi artists are for.

 

[immortalartisan]

@Tamerlane why are you doing this? Because I assume this has something to do with the fetishing about lesbian and gay People? Because otherwise I find yuri the most consistent source of wholesome and supporting relationships here

 

[mochi]

@Tamerlane your assumptions are void in the face of reality. I hate to break it to you, but yuri is already upon us.
Take this, mwaahahahahw https://www.essex.ac.uk/news/2017/09/28/getting-in-touch-with-our-female-sexuality

All the Gods praise the Yuri, repent blasphemous infidels

 

[immortalartisan]

@mocho we now have the power of god, anime, and science! Although I still can not over look the earlier incest shit

 

[mochi]

@immortalartisan incest is the purest form of love, fite me.

Anyway, if Tamerlane insists on being a die-hard shotacon, he should move to either a catholic monastery or to papua new guinea (https://courses.lumenlearning.com/culturalanthropology/chapter/sambia/), and leave the rest of the world to the blessing of yuri.

 

[immortalartisan]

@mochie well your arguing with only the power of anime on your side now I’ve got both god and science here saying that incest is just WRONG. You have the obvious gene disaster of any children they have and it is a very perverted style of Eros when storge is lost

 

[mochi]

@immortalartisan everyone's always assuming that a couple must make children. Incest is a taboo because for almost all human history there were no contraceptives, plus marriage was an economic contract between families. Nowadays we have plenty of contraceptives, and we marry out of love (hopefully), so there's no need for the taboo anymore.

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

The only true ship is to ship every character with every other character

Gendo Ikari would approve, I'm sure.

 

[immortalartisan]

@mochi that still feels wrong

 

[Richman]

@immortalartisan
From an evolutionary view, incest is doom for a species, BUT, i think humans don't need that much reproduction (Abe fite me). I have a better idea, let's commit the ultimate incest and become one being.

 

[mochi]

@Richman like those bacteria that reproduce by splitting up in two identical halves, but reversed?

 

[MawMaw]

man this made me realize we need some mom/son wincest manga like a Koi Kaze tier or somethin'
mom/son can be pretty equal to yuri in term of wholesome / supporting relationship afterall

 

[Richman]

@mochi
Yes, my fluffy friend.
(I mean, it's almost like the third impact, no? Return to the very beginning, except you don't get to be an individual anymore.)

 

[Tamerlane]

@mochi That's because most people are bisexual, not just women. But it's not so much strictly bisexuality as it is that your brain releases the same sexual stimulation hormones via the parasympathetic/sympathetic nervous system regardless of who's partaking in it. That does not equate strictly to that women/men would all have sex in a massive orgy, but rather that most people will have a preference towards the opposite sex as sexual partners, but if their needs are not fulfilled, they will turn to same-sex relationships to fulfill their needs. It's why it's called "sexual preference" or "sexual orientation," because you have innate leaning one way or another but that is liable to evolve as a preference or taste, but you cannot force it to.

Besides, you don't want me to start citing stats based off real life shit, so let's keep this strictly to fiction, please. I don't have an issue with lesbians or bisexual women. All my criticisms are mostly satirical/related exclusively to fiction. Bringing real life elements won't really fit the argument and is generally just irrelevant
(Also I am not a shotacon.)
@immortalartisan

why are you doing this? Because I assume this has something to do with the fetishing about lesbian and gay People? Because otherwise I find yuri the most consistent source of wholesome and supporting relationships here

It doesn't really have anything to do with fetishization, usually, though people can get quite obsessed with their yuri ships and can be weirdly fascinated with lesbians or making everyone gay.

No, it's mostly a writing critique I have where yuri couples are just kinda forced into manga as fanservice or for forced drama between the Crazy Psycho Lesbian character that I despise with my every being.
I'm being deliberately hyperbolic to call yuri dogshit, but really Yuri Mangas I feel can be their own thing with their own fanbase, and interesting lesbian characters can exist within mangas other than yuri, but I just don't like it when two girls happened to be close friends and everyone screams to make them a couple, or that a character who is seen as a romantic interest is retconned last minute to be bi/gay, and it contributes nothing overall to their character.

Plus I think they're just generally overrepresented in media compared to gay men, which I feel is a more interesting conflict because much more societies look down upon gay men then they do lesbians.

 

[immortalartisan]

@tamerlane ohhhhh you mean fanfic and community I thought you meant stories with cannon Yuri. Anyway yeah I agree with you people always ship people who are close friends and gay men are unrepresented. But I hope we agree that when the writer sets out with yuri it’s typically more wholesome.

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

I hope we agree that when the writer sets out with yuri it’s typically more wholesome.

Lmao, "I hope we can agree on [preference]." Nothing wrong with this specific preference, but I'd be surprised if Tamerlane does agree with it.

 

[Grimmycoffee]

I think "they're just generally overrepresented in media" just apply in anime/manga stuffs, most shows from America I know of have more gay people. The "appeal" they bring in the show is different though, former being cute and latter being comedic.

Reason for that? Not really sure. Maybe it's mainstream view about gender, where the guys talk about lewd shit and the girls just thought that's disgusting, with the opposite being treated more as sort-of a "gap-moe" rather than something normal. I don't really know how true this view is irl, just want to put this out there

.....unrelated, but why do you have Tamerlane as your photo and name? I've been wondering about this for a while, but never really see the opportunity to ask. The name feels really out of place, especially when next to someone called Bigtiddyoneesan with Guts wearing green shades as pfp.

 

[bigtiddyoneesan]

^@Tamerlane

 

[Tamerlane]

@immortalartisan I don't mind if creators do their own things typically, and while I don't really share that preference, I can see how that would result in a more wholesome story...Usually.

Though, I don't think wholesomeness is always a good ideal to strive for or to pretend all yuri relationships would work out or be healthy



Honestly, my favorite example of a gay character in recent manga is from Boy's Abyss and it's implied more than outright stated. See, in the manga, the main character is going through a series of existential crisis-es due to the circumstances around his life devolving into a hellhole centered around his hometown that he desperately wants to leave. After a while, he meets his favorite idol who wants to commit suicide with him at the Lover's Abyss, after she seduces him. Though, things fall apart once they try to attempt it, and their plans are put off.

Spoiler

Eventually, it's revealed he's being strong-armed and harassed everyday by his childhood friend turned bully, who refuses to let him or his family leave the town. When the bully finds out that he had sex with an idol, he tries to also have sex with her only to find out that MC tried to commit suicide, and so stops himself and goes to visit his house. Through flashbacks and dialogue, it's heavily implied the reason he's forcing MC to stay in the town is because he loves him, but because he has positioned himself as a strong, influential person associated with delinquents, he cannot come out as openly gay nor can he endure the rejection he might experience if MC leaves. So, instead, he systematically cuts off all contacts MC has in his life outside of him and forces him to stay so he eventually will be forced to just be with him alone.

It only contributes to main themes of the manga about everyone putting their expectations onto MC and the way society can influence and ultimately harm people, but it also makes a character, whose motives before seemed superficial and weak, into a vastly more interesting character, one that's almost tragic in what he's doing and in some respects an anti-villain.

Compare that to Please put these on, Takamine, where

Spoiler

the childhood friend and love rival to the main girl, who constantly denigrates, abuses and blackmails MC into doing what she wants, is revealed to be in a yuri relationship essentially for no other reason than to let the audience know she's not a threat, despite the fact she was very close to flirting with MC several times and her dialogue implies she's only into women because she went to an all girls school. However, this comes with some writing issues, because it is one of a few times that a love triangle may actually be used to great effect, because if Takamine actually loves MC but keeps treating him like trash, having another character he decides to go out with would be a natural consequence to how she treated him, and force her to do some introspection on her behavior to redeem her in the audiences eyes. Maybe it would even lead to an interesting scene where, because she knows she's lost, she uses her power to rewind time and start over with MC and to make up for her mistakes in the past. But no, that entire arc about the potential love rival that was built up to over many chapters is lost in the course of a handful of pages that flip her sexuality and Takamine learns absolutely nothing.

Compare and contrast, but I think I have a good case for why I have issues with yuri just suddenly being thrown into stuff as a writing device.

@Grimmycoffee
Oh, if you think I have an issue with how Manga and Anime does it, you should NOT see my opinions on how Western media does it, which is so, so much worse by making them gay/bi last minute to change their character arcs or to push an agenda.

There's a few hypothesises I have for why lesbians are more common. One's more of an evolutionary psychology point of view, as women are typically seen as the ones who choose their partners as they have a limited number of eggs, and they are generally seen as more "pure" than men because they are typically mothers. Therefore, if a woman chooses to be with another woman, it's less likely to start an emotional reaction. Especially, since people in general tend to view women as more vulnerable to men because of biological differences, and so are much more sympathetic with them.

Men, however, have a virtually unlimited amount of sperm cells they can produce and much less investment in terms of time, resources, and body. Therefore, competition between males is much higher and more rigorous to secure a mate and spread your genes, but gay men aren't in that competition, so they are looked down upon because they will neither spread their genes for the community, nor secure a mate, so are seen as incapable of doing so.

My other hypothesis is specifically in regards to Western media, which believes that because women are oppressed and gay people are oppressed, gay women much be doubly oppressed within society, (which really isn't true as historically male homosexuals were the ones looked down upon and women weren't even considered capable of having sex without a phallus) and so they try to push for Lesbians or glorify lesbians because of this. Which is completely ideological and damaging in my opinion because it undermines the actual history and views of homosexuality before mass pushes in favor of equal rights.

(Also the Tamerlane thing has a lot of reasons behind it, but part of it is just that it's funny I'm surrounded by Weebs with anime girls, and then there's a grizzled old Turco-Mongolian Warlord that butchered 17 million people talking about anime tiddies)

 

[immortalartisan]

@tamerlane yeah key word usually geez. how sadistic were those authors?