Imasara desu ga, Osananajimi wo Suki ni Natte Shimaimashita - Ch. 26.5 - My Happy Date ("Wholesome" Version)

[peortega1]

Dude, Marin is the classic "pure gyaru" - they get together in like the last 20% of a 100+ chapter manga - after they've supported each other in cosplay/hina dolls, they've met each others family and his grandpa has basically adopted her, she's helped him work through his insecurities by talking it out
- at which point the manga shows like 1 heavy make out session. I think Marin/Gojou is basically couple goals.

Yes, definitely you have reading comprehension problems, your list ommits all the attempts of Marin to "bind with my body" to Gojo and how she literally cries because she believes if Gojo doesn´t want have sex with her, it´s because "Gojo doesn´t love me" (chapter 75). Sounds familiar, true?
Marin is a much notorious case of a female character who confunds very easily love with sex and thinks love it´s impossible without sex. This is the reason why after that "heave make out session", Marin returns to be upset when Gojo tries to deny have sex with her in the same way Yuu makes with Yami in this chapter.
Anyway, you will be fun with the fact in Shikimori-san, the male MC doesn´t meet the family of his girlfriend until chapter 65 (after the ending of the anime and the first kiss of the couple, for not mention the attempt of Shikimori to have sex with Izumi in chapter 23 of the manga, who was censored in anime adaptation). All this after the FMC met the parents of Yuu a little after his confession and start to be a couple.
And the sexual attitudes you saw in Ayami are a direct inheritance from Ai Kamiya, the blue-haired second FMC. She acts with Izumi exactly like Yami did with Yuu in chapters 22 and 23, and all this knowing he is in love with other girl who is his girlfriend. Kamiya is both the cool older girl and the sexy flirtatious love interest. Also, I am very secure we will see Yami meeting Yuu parents in the future PoV arc of Yuu or at least he proposing to her meet his parents. Or Yuu mother talking with Hikari about Ayami and how Ayami affected Yuu in a scene in Hikari PoV.
And probably in the same way who happened in Shikimori: Yuu parents force him to talk about his relationship with the girl he dated so many times, Yuu Izumi parents noticed these several hook-ups without he didn´t say nothing to them, and securely Takamura parents noticed the same, considering how Hikari describes them, would be very strange Yuu Takamura managed to get all those dates with Ayami and his parents never said nothing about it.
And again, a thing is "my parents know I have a girlfriend and that girl is not Hikari" and other very different is "my parents know that girlfriend had sex with me in love hotels being minors, a thing who can make end both us in jail or at least in problems with the police".

Not really b/c he lets her leave it at "I'll keep being your convienant woman", then she's the one who follows up/ w. the contact exchange

Because, again, he is shy and timid even when is very obvious he wants being the official boyfriend of Ayami already in this point. Again, you doesn´t understand the dynamics of this relationship, even precisely when several of those H you mentioned doesn´t neccesarily have a formal fully confirmation of the relationship. This reinforces to Yami in the idea of "he loves me but he is a passive coward, so, I can manage this relationship in the terms I want". This is the reason why they call mutually "boyfriend" and "girlfriend" in chapter 28 in the beach hotel.

It gives the vibe that he's a nice guy who's gonna do what she wants to b/c he thinks he owes it to her - the bind w/ body.

Or it gives the vibe he is a nice guy who is so in love with Yami that is precisely the reason why he will do anything she wants to do it. Ayami sees to herself how who knows the real Yuu and what things he looks in a girlfriend, and thinks -and with reason- those are the things who allows her dominating and conquering him in a way Hikari never did and won´t it in the future. Aya is the real soulmate of Yuu, who is really compatible with him, not the passive Hikari.
This is other theme inherited of Shikimori, how both Kamiya and Shikimori for her dominant personalities, are the only real soulmates of Izumi and who can be really compatible with him and work in a relationship with him. This aligns with Izumi praying for "a girl who protects me" in his flashblack in middle school... exactly the same thing Takamura thought when he met Yami for first time. He felt Ayami protected him.
And yes, this is also a hint about both Kamiya and Shikimori coming from dysfunctional families. Maruto only needed add the abusive rapist step-father to explain why his version of Kamiya jumped so ridicuously fast over the pants of Yuu, in the other things, Ayami background is basically the same background of Kamiya -including being the cool idol of the school admired by everyone but without real friends able to see behind her mask-

I think Aya is insecure about her feelings b/c she's heard all the reasons why Yuu likes Hikari and knows she's nothing like Hikari and Yuu hasn't done the same for her.

Yes, that it´s the point. Is very obvious, how Yami describes her relationship with Yuu, he really did all that, he really praised her and he said why he likes her.
Ayami is secure about Yuu loving her and he really has scenes -and we will get more scenes of this kind in his PoV- saying whose things he likes from her. Her fear is not that. The fear of Aya is being the "plan B", being the "replacement" of Hikari, being not enough to overcome Hikari before Yuu´s eyes and make him forget Hikari for complete.
She is secure Yuu loves her, but she fears being only the "second girlfriend" or the "replacement" of Hikari. She wanted be the number one and exclusive lover of Yuu. And she almost suceeds in these plans, the scene of Yuu declaring PUBLICLY his love to Aya in the train station -again- proves it.
Is the same sensation Hikari feels now, this is the revenge of Yami over her. The same sensation of "he loves me, but he loves too Aya-chan". The "accidental two-timing" mentioned by Seki.

 

[peortega1]

Each day it´s more canon this boy is the original Yuu Takamura:

 

[GennArc]

So your claim is basically it's half subjunctive. That "As long as you are asking, I would go" includes a past where Yuu has asked her out and she has gone. If that were true, presumably Yuu would know from all the previous times he's asked her out and she's gone. So why is Aya saying he doesn't know anything and that there's no way she would turn down an invitation?

She says that because he's been consistently misinterpreting reasons for her decisions. The first "he doesn't know anything" happens back in ch. 26, where he asks if she wants to go somewhere and she says she is fine like this - and he likely thinks she is being lazy (as proven by his "You're the laziest person alive" in 28, which she refutes internally by saying that the reason she doesn't want to go for dinner is because she can't waste her time on anything besides him). And in that case it was the same - he thinks she might refuse because it's in her style to hate crowds or heat, but she says there's no way she'd turn him down.

Then they'd draw a fireworks scene, but also Aya's thought bubble for that scene specifically is "when I can be just a normal girl, no matter if it's going shopping or going on dates, I'd love to do it all"

They drew a festival scene, which is exactly what Yuu was talking about. As for the second thing, what's your point?

I think roughly there are two types of dating - for love and for companionship.

Do you think "being in it for sex/because she is convenient" suits the "good-hearted and honest" + naive characteristic she is giving him? Don't forget she also says later that him and Hikari are similar.

Aya being written fundementally differently than she's been written.

Okay, so there's absolutely no way for you to be convinced that she didn't think he was in it just for sex?

I'm just saying that she's doing it because he isnt. It's coming after Yuu said he didn't want this to be a whim/casual but didn't take the next step of asking for her number so that he could continue this relationship.

And I'm saying she did it because she intended to from the start, not as a reaction, and it's consistent with the previous chapter.

 

[story645]

They drew a festival scene, which is exactly what Yuu was talking about.

No, the middle panel is an everyday scene - there's nothing like a yukata or festival booth or booth prize in the background to indicate a festival. https://mangadex.org/chapter/b3f1db8c-5c68-478a-a33e-5dc665380ab0/5

That "shopping and dates" is what she thinks normal girls do in relationships - something she would do if she was normal.

he thinks she might refuse because it's in her style to hate crowds or heat, but she says there's no way she'd turn him down.

Which is my point - if Yuu had been asking her out on 'normal dates' with heat and crowds - cafes, amusement parks, shopping, (the things he did w/ Hikari) - then he would already know this about her.

Do you think "being in it for sex/because she is convenient" suits the "good-hearted and honest" + naive characteristic she is giving him?

Yes? Aya's whole playgirl act is about convincing Yuu that she's in it for companionship and she thinks Yuu is reciprocating what she's saying she wants. That's why she doesn't get honest with him when he thinks she's joking about being in love w/ him or moving in w/ him.

This is also more or less the thought process we see from Yuu - we're two people finding comfort in each other, Haru's takeaway that the relationship was about "wound licking". I think Yuu is crying when Aya walks away in 40 b/c that's when it really hits him that she loves/loved him.

And I'm saying she did it because she intended to from the start, not as a reaction, and it's consistent with the previous chapter.

Aya wishing Yuu would ask is also consistent with the previous chapter, where she has a whole mini-spiral over him not asking:

Yuu didn't ask mine.
He didn't even try to ask.

But it's probably just because he's sleepy and not thinking straight.

Maybe he'll realize it later, once he's on the train.
Or when he gets home, after catching up on sleep.
Maybe he'll regret not getting my number then.

...Or maybe he won't.
Maybe he won't even think about it at all.
He might just move on like nothing happened, like it's no big deal.

Aya would not be rationalizing why he didn't ask her if she wasn't hoping he would. Which I think this is another play on the theme of "reaching out" - Yuu said that he didn't want casual but didn't commit w/ contact, said he loved Aya but then from Aya's POV didn't look for her.

Okay, so there's absolutely no way for you to be convinced that she didn't think he was in it just for sex?

Companionship, and I think it's more complicated than that. That a lot of Aya's characterization is her internal fight between her cynical (he's with me for companionship) side and her naive (he's with me cause he loves me) side, as externalized in the fight with Hikari. I think she ghosts him b/c she's listening to her cynical side, and that a good chunk of her relationship with Hikari is that Hikari understands her naive side. That's why it's Hikari who is asserting "there was affection"

 

[story645]

and how she literally cries because she believes if Gojo doesn´t want have sex with her,

This is 30+ chapters before he confesses in 107, so of course she's insecure about his romantic attraction to her - they're not in any way shape or form a couple yet. This also gets resolved by them talking out their feelings in 107.

Which also this example actively disproves that Marin is trying to "bind w/ her body" b/c she's explicitly waiting for him to initiate rather than initiating herself.

This reinforces to Yami in the idea of "he loves me but he is a passive coward, so, I can manage this relationship in the terms I want"

Yami never explicitly thinks Yuu loves her - pretty much all her thoughts are of how Yuu makes her feel or that he's nice to her or a good guy. It's actually kind of glaring that she never even teases him w/ a "you just love me so much" type comment, when that would totally fit w/ her persona.

including being the cool idol of the school admired by everyone but without real friends able to see behind her mask-

Aya isn't admired, she's the outcast w/ bad rumors swirling who girls like Haru and Yuki would never be friends with. And Aya's middle school friend seems like she sees straight through Aya's mask.

Which you keep going on about this being a dom/sub type relationship, but every single romance where the girl has the dominant flirty attitude (Anjou, Akutsuki-san, hell even the gag manga that is "the girls in my class treat me like air") have the guy explicitly initiate something once in a while to show that they're not just going w/ the flow. Shoujo romance w/ dominant guys is the same - there's always at least one scene of the girl initiating to show she really wants it. Which my guess is that if Maruto gets to an Aya/Yuu endgame, it's gonna include Yuu explicitly telling Aya that he's in love w/ her. B/c Hikari knew that Aya needed to hear those words.

he really did all that, he really praised her and he said why he likes her.

Where?

The fear of Aya is being the "plan B", being the "replacement" of Hikari, being not enough to overcome Hikari before Yuu´s eyes and make him forget Hikari for complete.

Yeah man, that's insecurity. That's precisely Yuu not doing the things she needs to understand that she's now his first choice.

The scene of Yuu declaring PUBLICLY his love to Aya in the train station

Which chapter does he do this in?

 

[peortega1]

This is 30+ chapters before he confesses in 107, so of course she's insecure about his romantic attraction to her - they're not in any way shape or form a couple yet. This also gets resolved by them talking out their feelings in 107.

Yes, that's the point. Marin's insecurity about Gojo's romantic attraction to her stems specifically from his refusal to have sex with her. For her, "love" and "sex" are synonymous and equivalent; one cannot exist without the other. Not even Yami reached that level of hypersexuality.

Which also this example actively disproves that Marin is trying to "bind w/ her body" b/c she's explicitly waiting for him to initiate rather than initiating herself.

Marin explicitly considered taking the initiative, but ultimately didn't because of cowardice and fear, not because she didn't want to "bind Gojo with my body". And anyway, she makes it quite clear that if Gojo had wanted to have sex with her and had taken the initiative in this way, even without any romantic declaration, she would have agreed, thinking that in doing so, she was also binding him with her body in a romantic way.

Yami never explicitly thinks Yuu loves her - pretty much all her thoughts are of how Yuu makes her feel or that he's nice to her or a good guy

BS, here we going again. I leave this to you @GennArc, I´m tired.

It's actually kind of glaring that she never even teases him w/ a "you just love me so much" type comment, when that would totally fit w/ her persona.

No, it's not compatible with her personality. Yami isn't a saccharine romantic like Hikari or even Yuki. That's why Maruto called her a tsundere, and that's why even Yuu is surprised when she says "I love you, Yuu" in chapter 27, even though he knows it's part of how she's teasing him.
Yami undoubtedly has a tender and romantic side, but she doesn't express it so directly.

Aya isn't admired, she's the outcast w/ bad rumors swirling who girls like Haru and Yuki would never be friends with. And Aya's middle school friend seems like she sees straight through Aya's mask.

I'm referring to her past in middle school. Both Ayami and her friend describe her as someone admired and loved by everyone, but distant and cold. That's precisely what Yuzuka criticizes Yami for. This is Kamiya's exact backstory in Shikimori-san. If Yuzuka were truly able to see through Ayami's mask, for start, she wouldn't call her by the surname of the stepfather she hates. She manages to infer some things, but Yuzuka doesn't really connect with her the way Yuu and Hikari do relatively quickly. Especially Yuu, who fastily realizes that Ayami doesn't want to be called by her abusive stepfather's surname in chapter 22 during their first encounter.
The same way Izumi and Nekozaki manage to connect with Kamiya in Shikimori-san.
Anyway, I highly doubt that Yuki and especially Haru would have been friends with the original Ayami before the attempted abuse. To put it simply, they are very different from Yuzuka.
To draw a parallel, Shikimori would never have wanted to even talk to Kamiya, despite having a mutual friend with her -Nekozaki-, were it not for Kamiya's... friendship with Shikimori's boyfriend.

Which you keep going on about this being a dom/sub type relationship, but every single romance where the girl has the dominant flirty attitude (Anjou, Akutsuki-san, hell even the gag manga that is "the girls in my class treat me like air") have the guy explicitly initiate something once in a while to show that they're not just going w/ the flow.

Yes, @GennArc and I compiled a significant list of scenes, including this chapter 26.5, where Yuu does exactly this and takes the initiative from time to time. And this doesn't even include the things that—as far as we know—Yami didn't perceive from her point of view, like Yuu looking for her after ghosting her in September of their first year of high school—although I still think, and it's hinted at, that "why do you always find me, Yuu?" implies that he did manage to find her at least once during those visits to her school, and that she hid on purpose so he wouldn't see her.
Not to mention what's still to be narrated, I wouldn't rule out that there was a formal confession from Yuu to Yami sometime after chapter 25 or 26 (but before chapter 27), and that's why she calls him "my boyfriend" in chapter 28. It would fit with the manga we've mentioned—another example is Dangers in My Heart, in case you forgot.

Which my guess is that if Maruto gets to an Aya/Yuu endgame, it's gonna include Yuu explicitly telling Aya that he's in love w/ her

Again:

Ayami: "Study hard, play sports, dream big, fall in love..."
Yuu: "I already did that last one."
Ayami: "Oh? With who?"
Yuu: "You, obviously! Are you seriously asking me that now?"
Ayami: "...Pfft, hahaha!"
Thank you, Yuu.
I'll carry that moment with me to the grave.
Ayami: "Bye, then."

Again, in PUBLIC, with the things whom this imply in Japanese culture.

B/c Hikari knew that Aya needed to hear those words.

Hikari didn´t know it, because Hikari knows Ayami is lying purposefully and Ayami is precisely the person who knows better than anyone Yuu never would have sex if he didn´t feel something for her, how was literally and physically proved in chapter 24. In fact, will be fun if Hikari will discover someday until what point she was literally right about Yuu being physically unable to have sex with a girl he doesn´t loves.
Definitely that "failure" was not there in the "detailed erotic stories of Aya-chan".

Where?

We gave you a long list of examples in previous posts.

Yeah man, that's insecurity. That's precisely Yuu not doing the things she needs to understand that she's now his first choice.

Which is still very different from "he doesn't love me". At most, it would be "Yuu loves me, but he loves Hikari more." That's why the love confession scene at the train station is so important and symbolizes Ayami's total and absolute victory, the moment when she managed to become Yuu's first choice... literally five minutes before the final collapse of the relationship, solely and exclusively her fault. And she knows it, and that's why she feels so guilty and tormented in chapter 30 and beyond.
But yes, in this, I do at least partially blame Yuu. He didn't manage, or at least not completely, to make Yami feel that she was his first and only love, and he never quite managed to shake off that feeling of being "plan B," the "you're with me because Hikari friendzoned you".
And it's this lingering fear that causes her mental breakdown in chapter 40 when she sees Yuu actually leaving the classroom to go find Hikari.

Which chapter does he do this in?

Chapter 29. Again, these are their last words as boyfriend and girlfriend.

 

[GennArc]

No, the middle panel is an everyday scene - there's nothing like a yukata or festival booth or booth prize in the background to indicate a festival.

That's how hanabi festivals go in big cities like Tokyo. Walking along the riverside, not too many yatai and other festival stalls, and then fireworks after sunset.

Which is my point - if Yuu had been asking her out on 'normal dates' with heat and crowds - cafes, amusement parks, shopping, (the things he did w/ Hikari) - then he would already know this about her.

It's precisely because they spent a lot of time together, Yuu knows about things she dislikes - heat, crowds etc. And like I said, he is just making wrong assumptions because she always preferred to stay in the manga cafe/go to the hotel/stay in the room instead of going ouside whenever he suggested going somewhere, so he thinks she would not want to go.

Yes?

And I think not. Being in a "sexfriends" relationship doesn't match the naive, honest, good-hearted etc nature she is describing him with, he is the type of person who would want a genuine love and romance. He was hopelessly in love with his childhood friend for who knows how many years, and now he is suddenly okay to be friends with benefits and stay with a girl for sex? Ridiculous.

This is also more or less the thought process we see from Yuu - we're two people finding comfort in each other

And literally the next sentence is that they were connected in both body and heart. Come on, we both know the context.

I think Yuu is crying when Aya walks away in 40 b/c that's when it really hits him that she loves/loved him.

I thinks more or less the same along these lines, but not that he realizes she loved him, he realizes that her feelings were much stronger than he thought.

Aya wishing Yuu would ask is also consistent with the previous chapter

Aya would not be rationalizing why he didn't ask her if she wasn't hoping he would.

But that's not the main theme, and the focus in that whole scene is how she herself is unable to ask. She is stuttering, calling his name helplessly, and then going for the kiss instead. And the end of that arc is her finally managing to ask for his contacts.

 

[story645]

not too many yatai and other festival

But the art would still show one or two booths or someone in a yukata or kimono or mask to indicate in the art that this is the festival - basically a fade out of the first panel of 17, which itself shows how Maruto indicates that characters are at a festival.

instead of going ouside whenever he suggested going somewhere, so he thinks she would not want to go.

Which would imply that Aya is contradicting herself here b/c what she's saying here is she'd go along w/ those invitations - which I take to mean she didn't take them as serious invitations. I agree w/ you that Yuu is wrong on his assumptions, but that's why I think the festival is his first "real" invitation.

He was hopelessly in love with his childhood friend for who knows how many years, and now he is suddenly okay to be friends with benefits and stay with a girl for sex?

Moving from being okay w/ sleeping w/ a girl he just met b/c he's sad to being in a relationship w/ that girl cause they make each other feel better really isn't a jump.

He realizes that her feelings were much stronger than he thought.

I think that difference is the gap between being w/ someone out of companionship and being w/ someone out of love.

And literally the next sentence is that they were connected in both body and heart.

Yeah, I think that the tragedy of their romance is that Yuu and Aya both wanted to be in a serious romantic relationship but never explicitly communicated it to each other for fear of getting dumped and that created a negative spiral where Yuu isn't sure by the time he's looking back on this (I believed/or so I thought). And also I think that this whole "hiding information for fear of rejection leads to rejection" is a running theme in this manga.

is how she herself is unable to ask.

There's no need for the mini-spiral if Aya thinks asking for contacts is all on her. Which look at the next line where she's trying to ask and Yuu's not reading her mind:

He wasn't even noticing how desperate I looked.

...Wait. Stop. Don't blame him for this, Ayami.

Aya's default is to assume the worst here - the discussion at the hotel won't mean anything to Yuu, he's not picking up her desperation - and she has to actively kick herself out of it.

Which she does by kissing him:

No, actually, it was all me.
I was the one who dragged him off the train.
I was the one who clung to him so desperately.
I was the one who kissed him with everything I had.

which she thinks is her one-sidedly binding him w/ her body.

Maruto didn't have to include these spirals - the narrative holds just as clean if it was only about Aya's regrets. The reason to include the spirals is to show the insecurity.

 

[story645]

Not even Yami reached that level of hypersexuality.

Are you trolling? Thinking someone isn't attracted to you b/c they're not interested in having sex w/ you is totally normal behavior, especially if that person hasn't told you they're attracted to you. Healthy even.

Hypersexuality is when someone is having a lot of sex/thoughts of sex/etc as a maladaptive coping behavior. Here's a paper that's a pretty good summary of what I think Maruto is getting at with Aya
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165032721006509

and that's why even Yuu is surprised when she says "I love you, Yuu" in chapter 27, even though he knows it's part of how she's teasing him.

Yeah so the natural response to his "are you drunk" comment would have been teasing him about his love for her. Would have fit the tone and kept it light.

We gave you a long list of examples in previous posts.

No actually, Genn didn't respond w/ a single example and you've only given me your head canon. Where in text does Yuu say something nice about Aya as a person? Not his POV stuff about how she seemed to enjoy his company, something he admires about Aya as a person.

Both Ayami and her friend describe her as someone admired and loved by everyone, but distant and cold.

All her friend says is that Aya was a misynthropic top student. Maybe Maruto isn't doing a find & replace?

implies that he did manage to find her at least once during those visits to her school, and that she hid on purpose so he wouldn't see her.

She yelled at him that he didn't go looking for her so yeah pretty sure she thinks he didn't go looking for her. I'm pretty sure the "why do you find me" is just a call back to when they first met.

Again, in PUBLIC, with the things whom this imply in Japanese culture.

Dude, none of what you quoted is an explicit "Aya I love you", it's a "yes" with an implied "I am falling in love w/ you". And it happens during their goodbye. And then she thinks he doesn't go look for her so she's missing the action to back up his words.

 

[GennArc]

But the art would still show one or two booths or someone in a yukata or kimono or mask to indicate in the art that this is the festival

There are a few women or girls in yukata in the background if you look carefully:

Spoiler

Especially the ones with the obi tied behind are easily recognizable. And it's just a very typical hanabi festival kind of picture - no buildings in the background (indicating that this is a riverbank), lots of couples etc.

Which would imply that Aya is contradicting herself here b/c what she's saying here is she'd go along w/ those invitations

That's what I tried to explain before:

In this chapter she is with Yuu, the activity doesn't matter at all. You can say "she is turning down his invitation to go to the movie", but what she is doing is just choosing a different thing to do together with him (because movie would have her looking at the screen instead of looking at him). But it's not like she went home after he insisted on going to the movie, what mattered to her is that they are together.

Ultimately she could've even done the same thing she does in this chapter - meet him and then suggest going somewhere more quiet or intimate. But the point is, she will be with him, she wouldn't just turn him down.

Moving from being okay w/ sleeping w/ a girl he just met b/c he's sad to being in a relationship w/ that girl cause they make each other feel better really isn't a jump.

It's an enormous leap. Because going with the flow at your lowest is one thing, but staying with a girl for convenient sex for half a year is not what honest and good-natured boy like him would do.

I think that difference is the gap between being w/ someone out of companionship and being w/ someone out of love.

Wait, I thought your idea was that she thinks that about him, not the other way round.

the tragedy of their romance is that Yuu and Aya both wanted to be in a serious romantic relationship but never explicitly communicated it to each other

He doesn't think "I hoped we would connect in heart", he goes "I truly believed we connected, both in body and heart". In other words, he did view their relationship as seriously romantic. And so did she.

where Yuu isn't sure by the time he's looking back on this (I believed/or so I thought)

Of course he isn't sure at that point, she had dumped him out of nowhere from his perspective. But he says he truly believed it when they were in relationship.

Maruto didn't have to include these spirals - the narrative holds just as clean if it was only about Aya's regrets. The reason to include the spirals is to show the insecurity.

I'm not sure what you're trying to prove here. I'm not saying she didn't think about his reactions (or lack thereof) at all or that she didn't care about him not asking for her contacts. What I'm saying is that in Yuu POV chapter 4 she is asking for his contacts not because he didn't deny the "convenient woman" thing, but because she went a long way in her mind to finally manage to ask for his ID. And I'm insisting on it because it was a central theme of 25.

 

[story645]

But the point is, she will be with him, she wouldn't just turn him down.

Which my point is Yuu should already know this if he's tried to invite her to things in the past. That he doesn't means he hasn't tried before. Like this isn't even me trying to argue whether she wanted him to, that's a separate argument I'm gonna agree to disagree on.

Because going with the flow at your lowest is one thing, but staying with a girl for convenient sex for half a year is not what honest and good-natured boy like him would do.

Yuu never leads Aya on by pretending to be in deeper than he is. It's not immoral to be in a go w/ the flow situationship if both partners believe that the other is okay w/ the setup. Hell that's a lot of relationships until one partner forces a "what are we and where is this going?" conversation. (ETA: And yeah, I think Aya kinda did this w/ the move in together conversation)

Wait, I thought your idea was that she thinks that about him, not the other way round.

I think neither of them realized how serious the other was about them.

"I truly believed we connected, both in body and heart". In other words, he did view their relationship as seriously romantic. And so did she.

I took that to mean he thought that they connected emotionally and not just physically - the conversations they had about Hikari and Aya's family, the opening up to each other. Not that they were in love, especially in the context of Yuu's previous thoughts of them both being hurt people.

she is asking for his contacts not because he didn't deny the "convenient woman" thing, but because she went a long way in her mind to finally manage to ask for his ID.

I'm saying the reason she's doing it at this point (& not any earlier) is b/c she has lost hope that he would do so because he just stated he wanted this to not be casual but did not take the follow up action of asking for her contact information. Can't have a relationship of any sort w/ someone you can't reach.

But also, I feel like this back and forth is becoming a chore. I think we've hit the stage in our argument cycle where we're both gonna just be paraphrasing the thing we just wrote.

 

[peortega1]

Are you trolling? Thinking someone isn't attracted to you b/c they're not interested in having sex w/ you is totally normal behavior, especially if that person hasn't told you they're attracted to you. Healthy even.

Yes, that's the point. Marin keeps falling back into this pattern even after Gojo confessed his feelings to her and they finally became a couple. Even then, she still gets noticeably upset, just like Ayami, every time Gojo refuses or tries to refuse to have sex with her.
And no, thinking that someone isn't romantically attracted to you because they don't seem interested in having sex with you is far from "normal." On the contrary, it should be the other way around. It means that he or she respects you as a person and doesn't want to do anything without your explicit consent.

Hypersexuality is when someone is having a lot of sex/thoughts of sex/etc as a maladaptive coping behavior. Here's a paper that's a pretty good summary of what I think Maruto is getting at with Aya
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0165032721006509

Yes, precisely because I know that is why I can say Ayami is not hypersexual. In fact, everything said in the abstract of that article applies perfectly to Marin, and much more so than to Aya, who hardly even thinks positively about sex when Yuu isn't around, both before meeting him in chapters 22 and 23, and in her chapters with Hikari after the breakup. Hikari doesn't even come close to igniting her "inner fire" the way Yuu does.
This reflects what I've already said: on the one hand, Ayami is a demisexual character, which is why she fits so well with the demisexual Yuu —as happened with Kamiya and Izumi. On the other hand, Ayami resorts to sex as a way to dominate Yuu —as both Shikimori and Kamiya did with Izumi. It's not so much sex itself, but rather being the dominant one in a romantic/sexual relationship, that's her sexual trigger —that's why she says in chapter 28 that intertwining her fingers with Yuu's is a sexual arousal factor for her.
Marin is a character obsessed with pornographic eroge, with characters like Shizuku Kuroe who have had sex with dozens of men. Almost all her cosplays are of characters from pornographic or explicit works. She literally took Gojo to a love hotel to take semi-nude photos of her as a "sexy succubus". She wears revealing cosplays in public where everyone can clearly see her breasts and buttocks —remember, she's a minor, only fifteen years old— and so on and so forth.
Therefore, you have a hypersexual character in Marin, or worse, a character who seems to have received practically no sex education, to create that whole love hotel scene where the girl either wanted to have sex or wasn't even aware of the highly sexual nature of her actions with Gojo, which, if not for that providential phone call, would have led them to have unprotected sex.
And look, Marin also has a lot of traumas to escape. Her mother died in her childhood, her father is rarely home because of his job, Marin is a lonely girl with almost no family to support her when it really matters. There's a reason Gojo had to wait so many chapters to finally meet Marin's father and receive his approval—that is, after chapter 90 of the manga. Her very active social life is her way of escaping her loneliness at home.

Yeah so the natural response to his "are you drunk" comment would have been teasing him about his love for her. Would have fit the tone and kept it light.

Because, again, how GennArc said to you, your words are not part of their... dominant-submissive couple dynamics. Where they are playing to the sexy senpai and the shy kouhai.

No actually, Genn didn't respond w/ a single example and you've only given me your head canon. Where in text does Yuu say something nice about Aya as a person? Not his POV stuff about how she seemed to enjoy his company, something he admires about Aya as a person.

Well, definitely there is the (in)famous "Yami-senpai did nothing wrong" hehe
Other examples:

"Well... yeah, Yami-senpai, you're definitely the type to dish it out instead."
"Yami-senpai, you'd probably look great in a swimsuit" (chapter 27)

"It doesn't have to be just on trips like this... We can do this even when we're back. Especially since it's summer break. We can meet every day if we want."
"Okay, okay! I'll make time, somehow... I promise" (chapter 28)

He definitely really praises her with words, not only thoughts. And again, she is not more "cheering" than him, her real words to him are not so... "romantic".

All her friend says is that Aya was a misynthropic top student. Maybe Maruto isn't doing a find & replace?

Because that is exactly the point of the character of Ai Kamiya. She was a model top student but without real friends, less the MC and the female best friend of the girlfriend of the MC. Yuu Izumi and Kyou Nekozaki. Only them could see through her mask, like Yuu and Hikari did with Yami.
And this is precisely because the thing you called "misanthropic personality". A cold traumatized character who always hides her emotions from everyone under a "cool stoic girl" mask and unable to communicate effectively even with the few people she really loves.
Kamiya fits perfectly in the description of Yuzuka. And yes, this is the exact description of Original Ayami made by Yuzuka: a model student, a top student, with many friends and people disposed to even let Ayami move temporarily to their houses in this neccesity hour for her, but again, being unable to connect really with any of them, not real friends who she can feel she can put her life in their hands.
Again, if you never saw Shikimori, you doesn´t have any right to talk about this. Same with the works of Maruto like White Album 2 and Saekano.
And again, if Yuzuka would be somebody able to understand really Yami´s mind, she wouldn´t start calling her by the surname of her abusive step-father.

She yelled at him that he didn't go looking for her so yeah pretty sure she thinks he didn't go looking for her. I'm pretty sure the "why do you find me" is just a call back to when they first met.

So, conveniently in this point Yami is saying the truth, all the truth and nothing more the truth, during her rant full of lies and contradictions -who she herself marks out to the readers-. So convenient, not? Even more when her inner thoughts are real hints about her possibly finding Yuu looking her at least once or twice and actively hiding from him.

Dude, none of what you quoted is an explicit "Aya I love you", it's a "yes" with an implied "I am falling in love w/ you". And it happens during their goodbye.

Again, this is Japanese culture and it was a scene in PUBLIC. The words of Yami saying she never will forget this and her genuine laugh leaves very clear she takes this as an explicit and direct love declaration.
For make comparisons, in Shikimori-san very few times the MC and the FMC will say "I love you", is much more probably they use formulas like "we will always together", "I feel you are special in my life" and things like those.
Yes, Marin really uses a lot the "I love you" -Gojo never did, for certain, he only said "I like you, Kitagawa-san", remember the difference between daisuki and aishiteru, but this is because the peculiar extrovert personality of Marin too very rare for Japanese standards, even in Gyaru culture.

Yuu never leads Aya on by pretending to be in deeper than he is. It's not immoral to be in a go w/ the flow situationship if both partners believe that the other is okay w/ the setup. Hell that's a lot of relationships until one partner forces a "what are we and where is this going?" conversation. (ETA: And yeah, I think Aya kinda did this w/ the move in together conversation)

Again, their conversation in chapter 4 of Yuu Arc is precisely a "what are we" typical scene. Yes, in the shy and timid way of Yuu as the submissive boy of the relationship, but is definitely this kind of situations.
This is the reason why is appropiated he calls her in his mind "MY GIRLFRIEND YAMI-SENPAI" in that exact moment, but for the moment he is disposed to accept the self-definition of Yami as "your convenient woman".

And then she thinks he doesn't go look for her so she's missing the action to back up his words.

Not, she thinks he will look for her, but she managed to deceive him in a way who didn´t require make promises from her side. She is not formally obligated with Yuu, and the Yuzuka chapter left very clear Ayami still has a ethics sense who makes her feel in duty with other people, this is the reason why she tries to doesn´t make more promises to Yuu in their goodbye in the train station.

 

[GennArc]

Which my point is Yuu should already know this if he's tried to invite her to things in the past. That he doesn't means he hasn't tried before.

We literally see him inviting her somewhere in 26 and 28+29. I'm not sure what you're even trying to argue about.

Yuu never leads Aya on by pretending to be in deeper than he is. It's not immoral to be in a go w/ the flow situationship if both partners believe that the other is okay w/ the setup.

It's not about immorality, it's about mentality. The guy had a oneitis for a long time and was never eager to get close with other girls whom Hikari introduced to him and who were into him. This already describes him well enough to tell that he wouldn't be into such things.
Sure, Yami might not know about those things (depending on whether Yuu told her or not). But it's still a part of his personality.

I took that to mean he thought that they connected emotionally and not just physically - the conversations they had about Hikari and Aya's family, the opening up to each other. Not that they were in love, especially in the context of Yuu's previous thoughts of them both being hurt people.

I mean, there's no definition so I can't prove it, but when it comes to a couple "connected in heart" can't mean anything besides love unless you really-really want to downplay everything about that couple.

But also, I feel like this back and forth is becoming a chore. I think we've hit the stage in our argument cycle where we're both gonna just be paraphrasing the thing we just wrote.

I am fine with going on like this, but if you feel it's a chore, feel free to stop, I think these long conversations are only interesting to very few people, no point in continuing if even one of us is tired of it.

 

[story645]

We literally see him inviting her somewhere in 26 and 28+29

26 isn't a real invite b/c he doesn't have a concrete suggestion - Aya flags this w/ a "anywhere you wanna go?" - and I don't want to rehash 26.5. 28+29 is where Aya is telling him he's wrong about how he thinks she'd respond. Presumably he wouldn't be wrong/still misunderstanding her if this was something he'd done frequently over the past six months. Which it's been six months - at a date every week or two, he should know her if he's tried to invite her to things at least six times (2 weeks * 6 months /half invites).

I just don't think it's a coincidence that the things Aya mentions - shopping, dates, fireworks - are all things Yom/Maruto bothered to show Yuu doing w/ Hikari.

Sure, Yami might not know about those things (depending on whether Yuu told her or not). But it's still a part of his personality.

That's the key though - Yami doesn't know this. All she knows of Yuu is the guy who slept w/ her b/c they were sad despite being heartbreakingly in love w/ another girl. Why should Aya believe that she's not a rebound? That Yuu's devotion isn't only for Hikari. Aya's known Yuu for all of a few hours before she falls for him.

What Aya knows of Yuu is that he hasn't told anyone in his life about her, hasn't invited her over, doesn't ask too many questions. She's experiencing a Yuu who isn't inviting her into his life or prying into hers. Which generally the foundation for a serious relationship is sharing worlds - most mangas in effect show this w/ how quickly everyone knows about everyone even before the couples get together.

can't mean anything besides love

I think you agreed though that Yuu's crying when Aya kissed him is Yuu understanding just how seriously in love Aya was. Presumably this wouldn't be a surprise to Yuu if he thought the relationship was serious and about love from the beginning. For the same reasons he presumably wouldn't downplay when Aya says she loves him or blank out when she says she wants to live together.

Been thinking though also of how the distinction between casual and serious still allows for the folks to be in some stage of like -> love. Like I think Yuu presumes that Aya doesn't have the bandwidth for a serious relationship b/c of everything going on in her home life - the "she's in too much pain for me to presume".

 

[story645]

And no, thinking that someone isn't romantically attracted to you because they don't seem interested in having sex with you is far from "normal." On the contrary, it should be the other way around. It means that he or she respects you as a person and doesn't want to do anything without your explicit consent.

Do you want to have sex w/ someone you're not attracted to?

Yes, your partner refusing sex once you are in a relationship can be a sign of respect (or disinterest), but the scenario being discussed here was before the relationship. Once they get together, (unlike Aya & Yuu) they tell each other what they want/what's making them uncomfortable and hash it out.

much more so than to Aya, who hardly even thinks positively about sex

Yeah, that's the point - it's not even clear that Aya really likes sex so much as she's using it for comfort/distraction/to hold onto Yuu. At least half her kissing Yuu is proceeded/laced w/ insecurity. Even the bubbly afterglow chapter has her half detached, saying she's "playing the role of the girl".

He definitely really praises her with words, not only thoughts

So you're saying the ways he praised her as a person is telling her that she's hot, confirming Aya's assertion that she's not a doormat, and telling Haru that it's not Aya's fault? The only one of these that's unprompted praise is that she's hot, which isn't even in the same ballpark as Hikari saying that Aya is honest and kind.

So, conveniently in this point Yami is saying the truth, all the truth and nothing more the truth,

/sigh, why would she be mad at him for not looking for her if she knew he looked for her?

but for the moment he is disposed to accept the self-definition of Yami as "your convenient woman".

That's my point? He accepts that definition b/c he thinks it's what Aya wants and Aya thinks he accepts that definition.

 

[peortega1]

Do you want to have sex w/ someone you're not attracted to?

That's not the point. The point is that you can be attracted to someone, even if that person is ALREADY your official couple, and still not want to have sex with them. And that doesn't mean you don't love them. This is the mistake that both Ayami and Marin make.

Yes, your partner refusing sex once you are in a relationship can be a sign of respect (or disinterest), but the scenario being discussed here was before the relationship. Once they get together, (unlike Aya & Yuu) they tell each other what they want/what's making them uncomfortable and hash it out.

I'm talking about both before and after the relationship. The few chapters where Gojo and Marin are shown as a real couple, between chapter 108 and the end, are quite similar to Ayami and Yuu, with him continuing to refuse sex even after Marin accepts his confession and without giving any valid reasons, opting for an avoidance strategy (very typical of Yuu) instead of directly saying "I don't feel ready" or something similar.
And no, we don't see Gojo and Marin having any real communication at all. We see him refusing and her insisting in a way very similar to Ayami and Yuu, making it clear that Gojo will soon give in, just as Yuu did—emphasizing the role reversal that both series share.
In comparison, Ayami and Yuu undoubtedly have much better communication, for example, in this chapter 26.5, as Genn pointed out to you.

Yeah, that's the point - it's not even clear that Aya really likes sex so much as she's using it for comfort/distraction/to hold onto Yuu. At least half her kissing Yuu is proceeded/laced w/ insecurity.

So, we establish that Ayami is not really hypersexual in the way that Marin is; Marin does love sex a lot and does think about it constantly, directly (Gojo) or indirectly (her eroges).
We're improving there. For Ayami, sex is a tool to dominate Yuu (and if there's one thing she loves, it's dominating Yuu in any way she can and being the man in the relationship), and it's precisely her dominant personality that makes one of her main sexual arousals precisely being Yuu's dominatrix and seeing how she's able to make him tremble, whimper, and beg, how she's able to literally have him by the balls and on knees at her feet. We're finally accepting that this is a femdom relationship, a female domination relationship.
Yes, Ayami feels insecure. But that's because she's afraid of being Yuu's second choice, because she thinks he'll choose Hikari over her, that Yuu is only with her because Hikari friend-zoned him. That, again, is very different from "he doesn't love me and only wants me for my body."
That's why she focuses on reinforcing her own strengths, the areas where she knows she can easily outshine Hikari. Her things she knows attracted Yuu at first sight, a Yuu who, in his own words in chapter 3 of his POV omake, was looking for a girl who would "make me feel protected".

Even the bubbly afterglow chapter has her half detached, saying she's "playing the role of the girl".

Considering that chapter 29 is precisely where Ayami is trying hard to hide her mother's suicide attempt from Yuu, it makes perfect sense that she thinks this way. Once again, you conveniently ignore the external factors that drive Ayami's actions—factors that, to be fair, neither Yuu nor anyone else knows about.

So you're saying the ways he praised her as a person is telling her that she's hot, confirming Aya's assertion that she's not a doormat, and telling Haru that it's not Aya's fault? The only one of these that's unprompted praise is that she's hot, which isn't even in the same ballpark as Hikari saying that Aya is honest and kind.

He says clearly in chapter 28 he enjoys talk with her by phone, he enjoy pass time with her and he definitely appreciates being her boyfriend. He express worrying for her, he is happy because she is fine and having fun, and definitely when he says he is afraid from her family, is saying she is kind and their separation is not her fault.
And yes, the joke here Ayami definitely is not honest and Hikari is being delusional to call her in this way. Again, other proof of Yuu being better than Hikari in understanding Yami.

/sigh, why would she be mad at him for not looking for her if she knew he looked for her?

Maybe because she is not really upset for that thing. Maybe because she is lying again to make feel guilty to Yuu. Maybe simply because she felt Yuu surrendered too fast and one or two times he managed to found her was not enough to her. She knows he really tried to look her, but she thinks he could fight more for her. Most probably this last option.
Again, these are her real inner thoughts during her collapse:

"If that happens, I'll definitely run away and refuse to be caught."
On the other hand, if someone did that, they would be considered a stalker. Normally, that would be a big turn-off.
"But even so, if you don't give up, and chase after me again and again...!"
But I'm not normal. I'm mad. Yes, I wanted him to do it. I didn't want him to do it...

If you will go to take her words as absolute truths written in stone by a Ayami 100% honest and sincere, you should consider too her thoughts.

That's my point? He accepts that definition b/c he thinks it's what Aya wants and Aya thinks he accepts that definition.

And that's precisely your point because you don't understand the dynamics of their relationship, why Maruto says Ayami is a tsundere (when this would be incompatible with her being the official girlfriend of Yuu and saying she loves him as we could see her in chapters 27 and 28), and why Yuu grasped this much better than Hikari. That's why Yuu often lets Ayami play the "bad girl" role, even though he knows perfectly well that she isn't like that.
And Yami is also aware of this, which is why she offers to share IDs with him, as Genn told you. She understood what Yuu meant, and her tsundere personality simply prevents her from fully accepting that she's in love with him—this will happen a few hours later in chapter 25.5.
But anyway, it's pointless to insist with you when you think Yuu should have made Yami lash out at him again, given how fresh Yami's outburst of anger was during the ED episode just a few hours earlier. It's obvious he's trying not to make her uncomfortable or pressure her too much. And that Hikari's efforts to put much more pressure on Yami ended in the current disaster, even though Hikari is much more masochistic than Yuu ever was.

 

[GennArc]

26 isn't a real invite b/c he doesn't have a concrete suggestion - Aya flags this w/ a "anywhere you wanna go?"

Let's look at it this way:
From Yuu's perspective, he invited her to go somewhere, but she said nah, let's stay here.
From Yami's perspective, we see her own thoughts where she goes

Right now, this is all I need.
This spot, right here, is all I'll ever need.

She doesn't think "bah, he isn't inviting me anywhere specific", she literally thinks "I want to be here with him".
Where am I wrong? I think this kind of situation is precisely why Yuu could think she might refuse. And even Yami's lines go "he doesn't get it" both times.

I just don't think it's a coincidence that the things Aya mentions - shopping, dates, fireworks - are all things Yom/Maruto bothered to show Yuu doing w/ Hikari.

He didn't watch fireworks with Hikari. She watched them with Yami, Haru and Yuki. So there was no such intention.

That's the key though - Yami doesn't know this. All she knows of Yuu is the guy who slept w/ her b/c they were sad despite being heartbreakingly in love w/ another girl.

She might not know this, he could have told her as well.
But that's why I said it's a part of his personality. It's because he is that kind of person that he didn't go along with those girls, and Yami also learnt that he is that kind of person, that's why she describes him with words I already mentioned.

What Aya knows of Yuu is that he hasn't told anyone in his life about her, hasn't invited her over, doesn't ask too many questions. She's experiencing a Yuu who isn't inviting her into his life or prying into hers. Which generally the foundation for a serious relationship is sharing worlds - most mangas in effect show this w/ how quickly everyone knows about everyone even before the couples get together.

It's your perspective on relationships, not Yami's. Where you say "this is healthy", "this is a foundation for a serious relationship", we also have her thoughts on how she wants it, and she isn't saddened by him not introducing her to his family or anything like that. When she mentions Hikari inviting her over and then learning Yuu's house was next to hers, she doesn't lament the fact that she only got to know about it from Hikari. You're applying your perspective to her, but they are clearly different if we go by all of her POVs.

I think you agreed though that Yuu's crying when Aya kissed him is Yuu understanding just how seriously in love Aya was. Presumably this wouldn't be a surprise to Yuu if he thought the relationship was serious and about love from the beginning. For the same reasons he presumably wouldn't downplay when Aya says she loves him or blank out when she says she wants to live together.

Been thinking though also of how the distinction between casual and serious still allows for the folks to be in some stage of like -> love. Like I think Yuu presumes that Aya doesn't have the bandwidth for a serious relationship b/c of everything going on in her home life - the "she's in too much pain for me to presume".

The second half is basically what I would reply with, it's a difference between 好き (suki), 大好き (daisuki) and 愛してる (aishiteru). I don't think it's because of her home life, I'd say he might've perceived her as "liking" him because of her attitude and playing the cool girl and didn't realize it was a much stronger feeling than that.
But I disagree that he "downplayed it" when she said

"Aww, I adore your honesty. Love you, Yuu~."

because she said it as a part of their banter/teasing.

 

[story645]

think this kind of situation is precisely why Yuu could think she might refuse. And even Yami's lines go "he doesn't get it" both times.

I agree w/ Yuu on why Yuu thinks Yami isn't into dates , the manga cafe and the movie included.

The one we've been discussing though is Yami is rejecting his intimate date suggestion - the one that suggests he does know her - by saying that she'd do the first crowded public one.

He didn't watch fireworks with Hikari

For some reason I thought that the festival in chapter 17 is the one he invited Aya too. But he goes to a festival w/ Hikari & that's what I meant by parallels.

saddened by him not introducing her to his family or anything like that

Her wishing/wanting to be normal is an ever present thing, here's from the manga cafe chapter:

I don't have to become the perfect, overachieving me from back then.
But I do want to go back to being just a normal girl.

A normal girl who can stand beside Yuu without feeling out of place.

I presume this has to do w/ public spaces b/c it's a contrast to the manga cafe date.

Which what I think has to do w/ his family is that Aya thinks of his family as shining beacons of normalcy and she's constantly guilt stricken that he's lying to them. Obviously Yuu can't actually tell his parents he won't be home cause he's at a hotel w/ his girlfriend, but it's a choice to have the kind of relationship where he's constantly lying to them. And it's a choice to not do the 'normal thing' of introducing his girlfriend of many months to his family.

I think there is also a bit of an expectations thing happening - one of the ways Aya initially lets down her guard w/ Yuu is her family life, and then it's the thing she's putting all the walls up around, and it's what she's hoping he will intuit. And on the flip side, Yuu is keeping her at a distance from his "normal, happy" family life, and that distance means she can disappear w/o him ever having to explain it to anyone.

Which it's not my POV on relationships so much as well established manga conventions - do you have an example of a manga portraying a healthy teenage relationship and decent/living/local parents where the kids hide the relationship? - which I presume somewhat reflect Japanese conventions.

because she said it as a part of their banter/teasing.

He asked if she was drunk - that's treating it like she's not serious.

But also yeah, what I'm getting at is Yuu and Aya ended up in the miscommunication trap of they both believed that the other wanted the relationship to be more casual, and Aya in particular found it painful b/c how deeply serious she wanted the relationship to be.

 

[story645]

The point is that you can be attracted to someone, even if that person is ALREADY your official couple, and still not want to have sex with them.

Absolutely, but the situation we've been discussing is 30 chapters before they started going out.

we don't see Gojo and Marin having any real communication at all.

Chapter 112 they discuss what they want and are and are not comfortable with and in 114 agree that they're in it for forever.

So, we establish that Ayami is not really hypersexual in the way that Marin is;

Sex never puts Marin in danger.
Aya signed up for a paid dating site, slept w/ a stranger, and is currently playing a game of chicken w/ idiots in the hotel district b/c she thinks it's a punishment she would deserve. Aya's other attention seeking behavior when it comes to sex is the lurid stories she tells her friends & the suggestions of public indecency. Aya is also feeling deep insecurity b/c she's using sex to put up walls between her and her partner, and also uses sex to cling on to him b/c he's worried he'll pull away.

We're finally accepting that this is a femdom relationship, a female domination relationship.

In those stories the sex is empowering where here Aya's insecurities and loneliness seems to get worse on every encounter. If the sex was the empowering bridge building key to a healthy relationship you're claiming it is, Aya would believe that she truly owns Yuu's heart after six months of connecting physically. Hikari looming so large means the sex isn't doing the thing she wants it to.

Considering that chapter 29 is precisely where Ayami is trying hard to hide her mother's suicide attempt from Yuu,

Aya'a playing the mischievous girl in 25.5

He says clearly in chapter 28 he enjoys talk with her by phone, he enjoy pass time with her and he definitely appreciates being her boyfriend.

He implies some of this, but again this is all stuff she does w/ and for him & not about her as a distinct person. Which Hikari says Aya is honest when Hikari first meets her & at that point Hikari is correct and seeing through how Aya pushes her away.

Maybe simply because she felt Yuu surrendered too fast and one or two times he managed to found her was not enough to her

She'd then think that. There's literally nothing in her thoughts even implying that she thinks that Yuu looked for her. I agree that she recognizes that she's being in unfair in her anger, but that doesn't change the feels she's feeling.

 

[GennArc]

The one we've been discussing though is Yami is rejecting his intimate date suggestion - the one that suggests he does know her - by saying that she'd do the first crowded public one.

Uh, sorry, I didn't quite get what you meant here. Do you mean chapter 26.5, chapter 30 or both?

For some reason I thought that the festival in chapter 17 is the one he invited Aya too. But he goes to a festival w/ Hikari & that's what I meant by parallels.

It would've been a parallel if Hikari did watch fireworks with him. But the same hanabi festivals are the ones in chapter 30 and in chapter 15 (except one year later of course).

Her wishing/wanting to be normal is an ever present thing, here's from the manga cafe chapter:

But her wish is not entirely the same as what you keep mentioning as healthy\normal\serious.

I presume this has to do w/ public spaces b/c it's a contrast to the manga cafe date.

Which what I think has to do w/ his family is that Aya thinks of his family as shining beacons of normalcy and she's constantly guilt stricken that he's lying to them. Obviously Yuu can't actually tell his parents he won't be home cause he's at a hotel w/ his girlfriend, but it's a choice to have the kind of relationship where he's constantly lying to them. And it's a choice to not do the 'normal thing' of introducing his girlfriend of many months to his family.

She is kinda open about what concerns her - it's more about Yuu himself than about his family, she feels guilty that such a kind and honest person has to lie for her sake.
I think you're right about "can be introduced to his family" being a part of a "normal girlfriend". But I'd say in her mind that's just a consequence of what she was trying to do: solve her own family problems, start attending school again, maybe get some friends. And that's when Yuu would be able to introduce her to his parents - when she stops making a bad impression on everyone, like what Haru and Yuki say about her in 32.

Which it's not my POV on relationships so much as well established manga conventions - do you have an example of a manga portraying a healthy teenage relationship and decent/living/local parents where the kids hide the relationship? - which I presume somewhat reflect Japanese conventions.

Kimi wa Houkago Insomnia would be one example that came to my mind. But I'd prefer not to use manga conventions as a reference at all. I like to think that every author is going for their own thing, and thinking something along the lines of "this relationship is portrayed in a negative way because it doesn't follow the rules of a conventionally good manga couple" is what I'd like to avoid.
I think Japanese conventions aren't limited to idealistic romantic comedies.

But also yeah, what I'm getting at is Yuu and Aya ended up in the miscommunication trap of they both believed that the other wanted the relationship to be more casual

Where we probably disagree is, I think Yami was more or less correctly assessing Yuu's level of commitment (this is not about the seriousness of relationship, but it's related). She knew he liked her romantically and she knew he was even ready to lie to his family to be with her despite his personality. But he wasn't on the "if Yami-senpai is with me, I don't need anything else" level like she was.
She was wrong about him not looking for her after ghosting but fundamentally it doesn't change much.