Potion, Wagami o Tasukeru - Ch. 7

[Miserys_End]

As opposed to a competent, reliable slave, one which both has the ability and willingness to kill on command AND not think about killing a single girl in the middle of nowhere, the act would not only grand them freedom but also everything in the house and said act would not be noticed for days?

There's a reason why slaves required many armed guards.

And you're forgetting she's already hired competent and reliable guards, through the guild who are tasked with vetting adventurers.

Depends on the culture and how they are treated. It's not that I don't agree that slavery as practiced in most stories is abusive and amoral, only that you can't judge every instance of slavery by those who act in bad faith. Much like not every employer or politician can be judged by their outward appearance.

As the woman who suggested getting a slave said, all her staff are slaves, and they are said to be treated as just a slightly stricter labor pool. Meaning that there is likely something that prevents them from turning on their master. And who knows, there might even be restrictions baked into a standard slave slave contract that prevents the excesses that you typically find in fantasy.

Nope, didn't forget at all, however just like you alluded to about a slave turning on their master, it would be infinity easier for the an adventurer to do the same. As for Azul the A Ranked adventurer, he wasn't so much contracted thrue the guild as he was voluntold by a very scary lady to spend his time off looking after the MC. I imagine any group the MC could afford to act as around the clock body guard would cost way more then she is currently earning and be no where near as reliable as the elf.

True there is no guarantee a slave would be any better, but I doubt her S class patron would allow the MC to be saddled with a dud or a villian. True the same could apply to any adventurers, but the same sort of pressure being applied to them would be just a form a slavery of a different verity.

 

[TheCasualEnjoyer]

I get you, but so many isekai and fantasy want to hook on the "they're yours forever and thus can't betray you because magic"

If it was me giving someone a job so they can pay off their debts would be far easier to stomach if I needed such, but isekai gonna isekai I guess ..

Indeed it is always uncomfortable that their actions tend to be excused because they're a "good" slave owner. So much so that in many of the other isekai's I've seen, even when given the chance to be free they'd just choose to be a slave again for some reason? As if the option of following the person on their own free will didn't occurred to them.
I have no idea why over seas especially in a 1st world like Japan, entertains much less engages in "owning" people like pets in their fictions.
The practice is barbaric and cruel. And people who argue for it tend to forget that there is such thing as being "pragmatic to a fault", regardless of how beneficial it is.
People may also claim how in our modern society, people just rebrand slavery to mean different things, but here's a big difference between a prison and slavery.
One has a set time period where one is set free (depending on the crime), the other is on the mercy of an individual (regardless of the crime).

 

[TheCasualEnjoyer]

So anyways... John Brown isekai, anyone?

 

[GreenDude1]

There's a difference between slaves and indentured servants.

 

[Miserys_End]

Why are they always so tied to using slaves? Seriously!! Indentured servants are right there! So many fewer negative connotations. Unless they're extremely tied to the fact that you own them for life and they're property instead of just being "stronger than employment"

Indentured servitude is slavery, full stop. Just because it's wrapped in sophistry doesn't change what it is at base.

It's like they feel like these alternate worlds need slaves to prove they're more barbaric. The MCs always get slaves, but they're the good kind of slave owner which doesn't abuse their slaves unlike the evil slave owners.

You do know this just mimics the real world right? Oh sure it's not as blatant most of the time, but you never convince me sweatshops, drug plantations, Amazon warehouses, corporate cubicle farms and an exhausting list of other examples are not forms of modern slavery.

It's one of my least favorite things about reading manga. Both the slave stuff, and the sexualization of child-like bodies is just so weird.

Not that the rest of humanity didnt partake, but Japanese culture has always included some form of debt slavery. The Imperial Japanese Government openly enslaved over 10 million foreign nationals during WWII for work camps and brothels. And Black Company culture is just one of the many forms that modern slavery had taken since.

The whole child like bodies thing isn't much different. All cultures have deviants, Japan just seems more open about it, slavery, and other taboos then others.

 

[Miserys_End]

There's a difference between slaves and indentured servants.

Get the hip waders ready captian, the shit is getting deep in here.

 

[GreenDude1]

Bullshit

With indentured servitude to you eventually get free. You actually get paid for your work.

 

[Miserys_End]

With indentured servitude to you eventually get free. You actually get paid for your work.

And you're saying that can't happen for a debt slave?

 

[GreenDude1]

And you're saying that can't happen for a debt slave?

slavery is defined as forced work without pay. Indentured servants get paid and eventually freed. Try using your brain for once.

 

[Miserys_End]

slavery is defined as forced work without pay. Indentured servants get paid and eventually freed. Try using your brain for once.

But slaves are paid, in food and sometimes even a roof over the head... humans have spent centuries using pretty words rationalizing how to do what they want, to whoever they want. Your perception of reality doesn't change facts just because of one narrow interpretation of a word.

 

[GreenDude1]

But slaves are paid, in food and sometimes even a roof over the head... humans have spent centuries using pretty words rationalizing how to do what they want, to whoever they want. Your perception of reality doesn't change facts just because of one narrow interpretation of a word.

Food and shelter isn't payment. Otherwise all the cows on the farm would be considered employees.

 

[welcome2atlantis]

Lazy bums who don't want to work but only want easy money 😡

 

[HaikenEdge]

I can't help but wonder if slaves are so prominently featured in the isekai genre because a lot of writers have abandonment anxiety.

 

[Miserys_End]

Food and shelter isn't payment. Otherwise all the cows on the farm would be considered employees.

Fairly sure the characters of Animal Farm would disagree, while others would agree whole heartedly.

 

[GreenDude1]

Fairly sure the characters of Animal Farm would disagree, while others would agree whole heartedly.

So you're response to me pointing out that food and shelter isn't payment is to draw upon a fictional story where the animals are fully sentient?

 

[Miserys_End]

So you're response to me pointing out that food and shelter isn't payment is to draw upon a fictional story where the animals are fully sentient?

No, the point is that a slave's wage is food, water, and some times clothing and shelter. Which is no different then an indentured servants wage. At least until they work off their debt/crime.

True the indentured servant should expect better treatment, but that is no guarantee they won't be sleeping on the floor without clothing. Only that they should be able to earn their freedom. Assuming there are no clauses for adding more debt thrue mistakes or unpaid interest.

---edit---

Oops, forgot to add the bit about Animal Farm, it's about farm animals revolting against the farmer for being treated like food and free labor(slaves). Then being tricked back into the previous situation by their supposed allies because they are dumb and tasty...

 

[GreenDude1]

No, the point is that a slave's wage is food, water, and some times clothing and shelter. Which is no different then an indentured servants wage. At least until they work off their debt/crime.

True the indentured servant should expect better treatment, but that is no guarantee they won't be sleeping on the floor without clothing. Only that they should be able to earn their freedom. Assuming there are no clauses for adding more debt thrue mistakes or unpaid interest.

---edit---

Oops, forgot to add the bit about Animal Farm, it's about farm animals revolting against the farmer for being treated like food and free labor(slaves). Then being tricked back into the previous situation by their supposed allies because they are dumb and tasty...

Listen the biggest difference between a slave and an indentured servant is rights. A slave has no rights but an indentured servant does. Either you're an idiot or a troll so I'm going to stop responding to you now.

 

[TheCasualEnjoyer]

Listen the biggest difference between a slave and an indentured servant is rights. A slave has no rights but an indentured servant does. Either you're an idiot or a troll so I'm going to start responding to you now.

Nah, I think he just doesn't understand the difference, unironically.
This reminds me of people who when asked, thinks all socialist is a communist and all conservatives as nazis, clearly not understanding that there is a big underling differences. (Also don't get political nobody cares and will not be responded to, I am simply making an analogy)
Brother here thinks that prison/being in debt/or whatever it is as slavery (broad strokes as they say), not understanding that there are very big differences like simple human rights, freedom of choice and a monetary wage that isn't a human need such as food, water and shelter.
Then goes and sites a bunch of dubious facts or whatnot that nobodies cares about in all honesty. Cool story bro, but we simply know what is right and what is wrong, save the lecture for a university or go write a book or something.

 

[Lilabun]

NGL slavery exists in modern society, and most of us support it without even considering it slavery. It's just been rebranded to avoid the stigma that comes with word. Almost every country has a prison system, and most also enforce restitution for crimes and debts. So it matters more on how it's regulated, then the fact it exists.

How is that any different then what is portrayed in most isekai novels? What that slave is being abused you say? Google how many prisoners are literally beat to death in a year around the world... don't worry, I can wait while you do your own research.

Kidnapping people off the streets or small villages? Oh please, have you watched the news? There is a first world nation taking whole families and throwing them in makeshift guarded camps with little food and water. And half that nation cheered them on as they did it.

But they are not being sold into slavery you say? Have you seen the cost to profits of just housing prisoners? How much was it again that first world country paid out to a guy in South America to house prisoners? Hundreds of millions you say....

And that is only one form of modern slavery. We don't have to like it, and should be fighting against it and it's abuses, but don't think for an instant it doesn't exist here and now, on Earth, in the year of our AI overlords 2026.




Because even if you properly feed, house, and cloth a person, it is way cheaper then then paying a regular wage even with an upfront cost of purchase. Even more so when most medical expenses can be handled with a potion.

Where things start to fall apart is when resentment builds up to the point of rebellion and or self-harm.

Just because it exists in reality, doesn't make it ok. It's not ok in reality either, that's why we shouldn't normalize it or make it seem acceptable in fiction either, because it supports the notion that "slavery is sometimes acceptable with exceptions" which is not true in any way, in reality too. So...it being fictional, they could come up with a non-slavery solution. Even in real life, live-in guards with contracts exist.

 

[Miserys_End]

Just because it exists in reality, doesn't make it ok. It's not ok in reality either, that's why we shouldn't normalize it or make it seem acceptable in fiction either, because it supports the notion that "slavery is sometimes acceptable with exceptions" which is not true in any way, in reality too. So...it being fictional, they could come up with a non-slavery solution. Even in real life, live-in guards with contracts exist.

Then you need to reread my comments, never once claimed slavery as practiced here on Earth was a good thing, only that it still existed, just by many other names.

Nah, I think he just doesn't understand the difference, unironically.
This reminds me of people who when asked, thinks all socialist is a communist and all conservatives as nazis, clearly not understanding that there is a big underling differences. (Also don't get political nobody cares and will not be responded to, I am simply making an analogy)
Brother here thinks that prison/being in debt/or whatever it is as slavery (broad strokes as they say), not understanding that there are very big differences like simple human rights, freedom of choice and a monetary wage that isn't a human need such as food, water and shelter.
Then goes and sites a bunch of dubious facts or whatnot that nobodies cares about in all honesty. Cool story bro, but we simply know what is right and what is wrong, save the lecture for a university or go write a book or something.

Oh yes, please explain what human rights Russian prisoners have, or the immigrants that were shipped off to cecot. Sure not everyone are being forced into chaingangs to dig ditches, but that doesn't mean mostly innocent people are being held against their will for crimes they didn't commit and for someone's profit.

Listen the biggest difference between a slave and an indentured servant is rights. A slave has no rights but an indentured servant does. Either you're an idiot or a troll so I'm going to stop responding to you now.

And that is the biggest fallacy in your arguments. Slavery takes many forms and doesn't follow any strict rules. Most of all, at any point, those rules can change unless enforced by a higher power. An indentured servant is just a slave who hopes their master will follow words on a piece of paper, and not find an excuse to add more debt to their balence.