Kusunoki-san wa Koukou Debut ni Shippai Shite Iru - Ch. 54.1 - I wonder what they actually like (First Part)

[DrarRV]

Why bother a snake in its nest eventhou its once shared a rat with you.

 

[chiruno09]

Must protect

best girl is destined to lose

 

[Kibo_Ulfson]

Snek girl so good they have to give her an entire chapter to herself, hehe

 

[CulR]

since the author does a pretty good job writing and developing this character.

believe it or not, the author held a poll about who's the best girl. IIRC Hebikawa wasn't an option at that time, but the vast majority said Hebikawa, and he tweeted how shocked he was that people like Hebikawa. He never really thought his readers liked her.

 

[Freeland]

This is so funny🤣 The more people talk shit about Hebikawa, the more they inadvertently create engagement and make her more relevant as a character

 

[Darklight99]

believe it or not, the author held a poll about who's the best girl. IIRC Hebikawa wasn't an option at that time, but the vast majority said Hebikawa, and he tweeted how shocked he was that people like Hebikawa. He never really thought his readers liked her.

Isn't the author a woman?
Also, it was on Twitter and it wasn't a poll, the author just asked whom do you like the most and most people replied Hebikawa. The author definitely knows that she's very popular, maybe they were surprised by how much but they know that people like her, because her chapters are always the volume exclusive ones.

 

[Ragnolock]

There's this thing called forgiveness and understanding, and I don't think you've noticed but it makes the world go round. It lets people actually focus on building better relationships going forward, instead of dwelling on what's already happened.

For someone to actually earn forgiveness they have to actually act in a way deserving of forgiveness. There is a difference between understanding someone's motivations, and forgiving them. Dwelling on what's already happened is completely justified when a character's intended actions are from a place of malice, and not objectively healthy. People are using the defense of "She has not done anything yet", but we can see through her attempts to achieve her goal of "exposing" her "inner dark side" that she has fabricated through her own misguided ideology that she is not a good person, and has done nothing to actually warrant any level of forgiveness.

We have a better understanding of her motivations, but her actions thus far have not earned her forgiveness. If anything the sole motivator for her has achieved the opposite effect.

 

[Ragnolock]

Okay, and? Hebikawa herself isn't justifying her actions, and I'm not exactly sure where I ever did that, either.

The only thing I've said is that what she has done hasn't actually been terrible, beyond be mean to those who were mean to her when she was a kid, and then be rude and dismissive "with a smile" to guys who constantly hit on her. She humors her mom's boyfriend while he repeatedly comes onto her, so that he'll stick around in her mom's life; she was kind to Keisuke's face in middle school, then turned around and treated him like he was the nobody he was when asked about him from others--to the point she didn't remember him at all at first, because of how much he'd changed/"debuted" in high school.

Since then, Keisuke has been accusing her of plotting to get involved with Kusunoki, and Hebikawa herself has declared her intent to "expose Kusunoki's dark side", but has done actual fuck-all in carrying out that plan. Keisuke was the one who started this whole "compensated dating" bullshit that some readers like to parrot, when it was explained three chapters later.

And the "actionable portion" of her "Plan" that's been declared since the beginning of volume 5? She's gotten involved with Keisuke, who has sought her out himself on two separate occasions when he could have just turned around and walked away. And she wants to make Keisuke fall for her, because she's clocked that Kusunoki has feelings for him back in chapter 31--something she denied until chapter 53. Lo and behold, Hebikawa has instead witnessed Keisuke's earnest side on two major occasions (when he got her away from Koji in chapter 33, and again with her lonesome birthday three chapters later), and when he saw right through her in chapter 42, she got upset at the fact the one action she'd taken fell through, while starting the process of falling for him at the same time.

So, again--every "bad" thing she's done, was in flashbacks in elementary and middle school. Elementary, she was lashing out against those who bullied her first. She made the "dark choice" variant of Kusunoki, which is why she's the main heroine's counterpart; they both were bullied as children due to being "too nice", and Hebikawa turned cynical and cold while Kusunoki retreated into herself and became an introvert.

Go back and look at previous chapter comment sections. Hebikawa is treated as scum of the Earth, when if you read through her actual story and what she's done in the narrative thus far, it all feels rather blown out of proportion. You can say "well she's been mean to people", and that's fair. She'd say it first, because she believes that kindness is a mask and that everyone is selfish on the inside. Because that is her character arc.
But point out to me where she's done something that actually warrants the hate she's gotten from those who express such contempt for her character. Because she's not as violent as Otobe, she's not as persistently annoying or aggressive as Airi, and I would argue Kusunoki has hurt Keisuke more than her, in the present timeline of high school--even if it was unintentional.



All that to say--she's a complicated character who has been set up to be the counterpart to Kusunoki, and that alone paints her in an unfavorable light. But acting like she's some irredeemable villain who's earned the amount of hate that some people here have leveled at her is asinine. She's got a character arc that's seen her change even since middle school, and again throughout the First Year they've been covering in the series. There's a reason she's the third heroine and not just an out-and-out antagonistic figure, after all.

My viewpoint on her getting a lot of hate comes a lot from the morons just posting. Where snek girl. Literally any time she is not in a chapter it gets flooded with comments shitting on the chapter because she was not included. More so a retaliation for the constant shit posters, and not really a point of narrative.

There is also the point that I made where people are justifying her false ideology, and malicious plot to "expose" the main heroine.

Do I think she is a fine character who makes the story interesting? Yes

Do I like her? No

You can like what a character contributes to the story, and not like the character. Similar to villains in a shounen series.

You can also like a character and not like a ship, but people refuse to believe that.

Hebikawa's contribution to the story makes it interesting, but I am not going to sit there and do the mental gymnastics to try and justify her motives just because she has a sad backstory. Similar to the comparison I made about Jeffrey Dahmer. He had a bad home life. Am I going to use that as a justification for his motives? No. It is an exaggerated comparison, but one that most people should know. It is hard to find examples that are widely known that are not people who committed horrific atrocities. I can't just say "My old friend Jeff" and expect people to understand the comparison.

 

[ipmanvsthemask]

For someone to actually earn forgiveness they have to actually act in a way deserving of forgiveness.

No, they don't, you just need to forgive.

Dwelling on what's already happened is completely justified when a character's intended actions are from a place of malice, and not objectively healthy.

I should remind you that you are neither Keisuke nor Kusunoki. You are a reader.

but her actions thus far have not earned her forgiveness.

Here's where the literacy comes in. The author is telegraphing Hebikawa changing for the better, like really fucking telegraphing it. Also, there's an entire thing called rehabilitation. You should look it up.

 

[Litreara]

My viewpoint on her getting a lot of hate comes a lot from the morons just posting. Where snek girl. Literally any time she is not in a chapter it gets flooded with comments shitting on the chapter because she was not included. More so a retaliation for the constant shit posters, and not really a point of narrative.

There is also the point that I made where people are justifying her false ideology, and malicious plot to "expose" the main heroine.

Do I think she is a fine character who makes the story interesting? Yes

Do I like her? No

You can like what a character contributes to the story, and not like the character. Similar to villains in a shounen series.

You can also like a character and not like a ship, but people refuse to believe that.

Hebikawa's contribution to the story makes it interesting, but I am not going to sit there and do the mental gymnastics to try and justify her motives just because she has a sad backstory. Similar to the comparison I made about Jeffrey Dahmer. He had a bad home life. Am I going to use that as a justification for his motives? No. It is an exaggerated comparison, but one that most people should know. It is hard to find examples that are widely known that are not people who committed horrific atrocities. I can't just say "My old friend Jeff" and expect people to understand the comparison.

I already had a similar discussion, but it seems like it led nowhere. Let me quote myself:

I never said she can't change. That is not my point at all. What I actually said is that the change doesn't erase the start. Those are two different things, and the distinction matters. You are acting like I am arguing for eternal punishment, but I am not. I am arguing that origins have weight. You cannot just skip past how something began because you like where it might be heading.

To be clear, I do not think what Hebikawa is doing is that bad. It is just silly. Yes, it comes from ill intent. But her schemes are relatively low stakes. She is not a monster. She is a flawed character acting on a warped worldview. That does not make her irredeemable. It just means we should be honest about what she is doing instead of pretending it was never there.

You are arguing against a position I do not actually hold. I never said Hebikawa should be condemned forever. I never said redemption is impossible. What I said is that readers who pretend the bad intentions never mattered are gaslighting themselves. And that is exactly what I see happening in the comments.

My problem is with readers who romanticize her before she has done any of the work you are describing. You mentioned taking responsibility and putting in the effort to change. Fine. I agree with that in principle. But where is that effort right now? Where is the acceptance of responsibility? It is not there. People are already defending her as if she has already earned forgiveness, when she has not even started earning it.

If she actually takes responsibility later, great. I have no issue with that. A well written redemption arc is a good thing. But that is not what is happening in the comments I am criticizing. What is happening is people ignoring the ill intent entirely, skipping straight to the cute ending, and acting like the setup never mattered. That is my problem. Not redemption. Not change. The refusal to acknowledge where the character began in the first place.

 

[Luna-pyon]

I can appreciate giving snek room to be an actual interesting character.

But don't think that means you'll win.

Still begone snek!

 

[Ragnolock]

No, they don't, you just need to forgive.

I don't know what world you live in, but in the real world. Someone doesn't just simply get forgiven for intentionally wronging another simply because they had a bad upbringing. That is not how the real world works.

I should remind you that you are neither Keisuke nor Kusunoki. You are a reader.

When did I say I was? Talk about literacy problems...

Here's where the literacy comes in. The author is telegraphing Hebikawa changing for the better, like really fucking telegraphing it. Also, there's an entire thing called rehabilitation. You should look it up.

Changed for the better, but is still on a quest to "expose" someone's dark side by getting close to someone she thinks she likes. You can just say you are relentlessly playing defense for a character you like. You don't have to masquerade as an intellectual. You just come off as an idiot.

 

[Ragnolock]

I already had a similar discussion, but it seems like it led nowhere. Let me quote myself:

Unfortunately when you bring up a good point it seems they disengage because they realize if they continue the dialog they just come off as someone defending their waifu.

 

[Ragnolock]

I already had a similar discussion, but it seems like it led nowhere. Let me quote myself:

On top of that what you said at the end is all too true with this genre. People treat it like a rat race, and only care about the ending. They don't care about the actual plot they care about their favorite girl winning. Even if it makes no narrative sense. Shippers are an absolute bane on this community as a whole. They don't care about the journey they only care about the destination, and the second someone else takes the limelight that isn't their "waifu" they complain about lack of exposure.

 

[GetRekdm8]

Womp womp, somebody's illiterate.

Wahhh someone doesn't like the bitter vindictive bitch character wahhhhhhh. Also what "forgiveness and understanding" lol her bad behavior is still continuing as we speak, it's not like she's "reformed" or even remotely apologized for any of her actions.
Plenty of other characters in other series face just as much if not more hardship and don't take it out on everyone around them. Keep crying I guess, being a snarky jagoff isn't going to make anyone with a brain like her due to mistaken and misplaced empathy, for a character that doesn't deserve it no less. The moment you act like a ratty, manipulative snake with the relationships around you you don't deserve any "understanding", you deserve to be an outcast. She decided to live up to the bad things her past friends said about her, she sure showed them!
🤷‍♂️Cope

 

[ipmanvsthemask]

I don't know what world you live in, but in the real world. Someone doesn't just simply get forgiven for intentionally wronging another simply because they had a bad upbringing. That is not how the real world works.

You're an idiot. Each person will have their own preferences on how and when to give it, but that's all superfluous. Forgiveness requires nothing for you to give.

When did I say I was? Talk about literacy problems...

You're not even self-aware of your own behaviour. You, Litreara and that dumbass troll. You treat Hebikawa as if you have personal dealings with her. You don't, she's not real. Hell, you're even more vindictive towards her than people are IRL (your standards btw).

Changed for the better,

Talk about literacy problems. I said the author is going to make Hebikawa change. She hasn't yet.

Wahhh someone doesn't like the bitter vindictive bitch character wahhhhhhh. Also what "forgiveness and understanding" lol her bad behavior is still continuing as we speak, it's not like she's "reformed" or even remotely apologized for any of her actions.
Plenty of other characters in other series face just as much if not more hardship and don't take it out on everyone around them. Keep crying I guess, being a snarky jagoff isn't going to make anyone with a brain like her due to mistaken and misplaced empathy, for a character that doesn't deserve it no less. The moment you act like a ratty, manipulative snake with the relationships around you you don't deserve any "understanding", you deserve to be an outcast. She decided to live up to the bad things her past friends said about her, she sure showed them!
🤷‍♂️Cope

I know some people can't be born smart, but still, try to do better.

My problem is with readers who romanticize her before she has done any of the work you are describing. You mentioned taking responsibility and putting in the effort to change. Fine. I agree with that in principle. But where is that effort right now? Where is the acceptance of responsibility? It is not there. People are already defending her as if she has already earned forgiveness, when she has not even started earning it.

"Foreshadowing is a literary device that writers utilize as a means to indicate or hint to readers something that is to follow or appear later in a story."

 

[popotato111]

leaving snake for last...

 

[Argon2409]

Hebikawa is just going to break down once she recieves the gift, isn't she.

 

[GetRekdm8]

I know

Thanks for having no argument I guess when it mattered, seems you can't even defend her since you know it's true lol. She's a terrible character, simple as.🚬🚬🚬

 

[Litreara]

"Foreshadowing is a literary device that writers utilize as a means to indicate or hint to readers something that is to follow or appear later in a story."

Foreshadowing isn't redemption nor forgiveness. It's a hint that redemption might come later. That doesn't mean readers should act like she's already there.

The author can hint all they want, but that doesn't mean Hebikawa has done anything yet. She hasn't withdrawn her plan to use Keisuke. She hasn't apologized. She hasn't abandoned her worldview. She hasn't taken responsibility. The author saying "she might change" is not the same as Hebikawa saying "I was wrong."

Right now, Hebikawa is still at the starting line. She's caught feelings for Keisuke and that's it. But that just complicates her plan, it doesn't replace it. She hasn't done the work. You are treating foreshadowing as if it's already happened, skipping multiple chapters in your own head.

Foreshadowing is a promise. The payoff is the work. And the work hasn't started yet.