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[cor3zone]

@BalrogDeMorgoth
Dude, you're no balrog. You're a fucking troll. 😂

Like I said, valid isn't the same as right or justified. You're pissed at me over fucking fiction. Valid, not justified. 😂

You explained why you believe they are less evil. I disagree, so no dice. You're right, because why?

Sure, they 'left' by enslaving humans on the moon.

Again, why can you be judges, but I can't?

 

[WillLi]

@cor3zone firstly, you need to open your eyes, you've read everything I've said but somehow still managed to not know what I'm saying. You're firstly lumping me with the people saying witches are not as bad as humans...while I'm in the middle of telling someone that is not the right way to think...that's kinda dumb. Secondly I got on you explicitly for 2 things, neither of which involved me implying you were 'wrong'. The first was you using the logic of "We don't know the whole past and the story has been one sided" which one is not true, the genocide as I mentioned has been verified by both sides. And is inexcusable, period. I did not speak about how you judged either side until you said "I withhold judgement because both are monsters" and then I told you that that is a bad way of thinking and why you're getting ganged up on by people, because it's a weak stance, and it's dodging the realities. It's also a stance that frankly pisses people off if you participate in debate because no one can prove anything to you if you just say "Well it's possible this happened and we just don't know it" it's down right disrespectful to the other side. If you want to take that stance, don't participate in debate, say your peace, expect annoyed replies, and don't respond. Otherwise you will get lots of hate and flame.

Edit: Also in relation to judges, no one here is a judge. Juding someone does not make you a judge. A judge comes with authority. And no one has that here over this manga so no one is a 'judge'. You're free to debate and judge the series as much as you want. But actually -judge- don't dodge judging it and then try to participate in debate.

 

[Turkeyjerkey]

Killing people off like flies is just gonna highlight how much plot armor the mc has.

 

[BalrogDeMorgoth]

@WillLi I know what you were refering to, it being about the world war doesn't change any point I made, by your logic, Genocide is as bad as economic sanctions, which is just factualy wrong.

It doesn't matter if it doesn't diminish the evil of the response, what the witches wanted to do is objectively less bad than what the humans actualy did.

Your explaination sucks, because it ignore what I pointed out a lot already : 99% OF THOSE HUMANS WOULD BE SLAVES EVEN IF THE WITCHES DO JACKSHIT, the humans already have slaves in stupid quantity going by the chapters were the witch faked being a slave, so now, I wouldn't even need to address the rest because the very basis of your explaination is already done for but I'll do it anyway.

Doesn't matter, they didn't do anything wrong for their brethen humans to enslave them either.

please, don't 'd-d-d-d-da cycle of da hate !!!!' me when it's completly unrelated to what I'm saying.

'If everyone is less evil than the former because they were mistreated first,' No, stop that, I stated MULTIPLE TIMES that what i'm saying is not that, even if the witches were just a race of slaver and never had any genocide or anything, they'd still be objectively less evil than the humans who are also slavers but also genocidial maniacs.

If you torture someone's whole family and kill them before being caught and they then kill you before you go to jail, what they have done is bad but it's not nearly as bad as what you did.

Or another exemple so you don't throw the 'muh circle of hatred' thing again, a hitman who come, shoot someone at the back of the head by surprise and leave is objectively less evil than a warlord who come, has a whole town raped and tortured to death and then just live there, are both evil ? sure, does the evil of one side make the other better ? no, are they equaly evil ? fuck no.

 

[BalrogDeMorgoth]

@cor3zone 'e-e-e-e-e-everyone who publicly stomp my bulshit is a troll !!!' keep crying.

'd-d-d-da valid !!!!' and yet you still can't point at anything valid when people ask, almost like you know you're dumb.

I'm right because that's what objectively true and what actualy happen in the manga.

They aren't even on the planet, how is that not leaving ?

You know that a judge can't just go 'lol, that's objectively true but I don't care !!!!', right ? You can't just impose your fanfic on the manga, that's not how judging a situation works.

Also you should have pulled the 'agree to disagree' card before calling everyone 'clowns' and insisting you were right.

 

[cor3zone]

@WillLi
My stance is based on cold, hard facts. Humans committed genocide. Bad. Witches plan to enslave humanity. Bad. Someone came onto me because, 'humans have a bad past'. Witches might too, was my response. My stance isn't based on that, never was. You made it out to be.

I never said the genocide was one-sided information. I implied the reasons behind all this bullshit taking place were. Humans tell their story to justify genocide. Witches tell theirs to justify slavery. True. Which makes you wrong.

I don't read your responses to other people, because my tolerance for bullshit is getting lower. When did I lump you together? Telling me I shouldn't think a certain way, is telling me I'm wrong. I am performing individual judgments on you, and you happened to receive the same judgment. You are judging me, like the others, while saying I am not a judge. Note, you and the others. Not you plural. So fuck off.

 

[Invader_Retro]

@cor3zone

Tell me, are all human decisions rational? Have you never resented someone with more power than you? Does a desire have to be rational to be valid?

I already said no humans aside from mc wanted to help the rest didn't care. Thats not an excuse or valid for genocide and enslavement 🤦‍♂️ how does that lead to vengeance being fair to both sides?

Not really. Did they resent them for having more power, and not sharing freely? Hell yeah.

This was never stated at all

Is their desire to fuck over their perceived overlords valid? Fuck yes.

The witches didn't rule over them but guided them as was asked by their creator...the king or any human for that matter didn't mention anything remotely corrupt about them. Again the king said they were holding them back and said science was superior etc.

Has any war or genocide ever been righteous or justified? There is always an agressor, there are always valid reasons for the war. It is never justified.

How does that help the vengeance thing you mentioned or prove that witches are evil?

Now, tell me how the witches' plan is any better than the humans'. They are capable of living on the fucking moon. So, they are right to enslave humans because they were wronged?

No but them wanting revenge and wanting to enslave humans for what they did makes sense.

If they aren't at fault, like you seem to indicate, then they should just fucking leave. They didn't.

They are on the MOON 🤦‍♂️🤷‍♂️

@WillLi @BalrogDeMorgoth I already stated they did nothing wrong or so far in the story nothing to deserve this...... NOTHING exists so far to say witches are equally bad plus evil* witches died before they could do anything...
In conclusion, so far witches are innocent and have blood-free hands because they are fighting in self-defense.
Wait and see what is revealed further to judge also discussing anything further is pointless at least on this topic 🤷‍♂️

 

[BalrogDeMorgoth]

@cor3zone 'm-m-m-m-m-my resistance to bulshit !!!!' lol, you got humiliated publicly and got so desperate you tried to play the 'let's agree to disagree' card after everyone shat on you, don't start playing brave just because you're talking to the one person not COMPLETLY against you.

 

[golestar]

a bit disappointed how little the witches actually managed to put up a fight but gore is always welcomed

 

[Buraindo]

holy FUCK

 

[cor3zone]

@BalrogDeMorgoth
No, your ridiculous grasp of English, while pathetically trying to piss me off, makes you a troll.

You're the one not pointing at anything valid, though?

You're 'right', because you decided you are. If it was objective, I would agree. I don't, so it isn't.

You started the ad hominem, I simply followed suit. Trying to 'get on your level'. Seems you're too dumb to remember.😂

@Invader_Retro
Did you get the opinion of every human in the world? Nope. They were valid in resenting the witches, all humans resent those with power over them. Never stated? That is quite literally the entire justification for the genocide. You missed the operative word: "perceived".

It doesn't help, it proves that valid is not the same as justified. The humans were valid in their desire, not justified in genocide. Witches are valid in their desire, not justified in slavery. It makes sense the witches want revenge, but it makes them just as bad as the humans. There is no lesser evil, just evil. They are on the moon, and they built a habitat to fucking enslave humans. Since you like one-sided information, that one is confirmed by the MC. Not. Leaving.

 

[WillLi]

@BalrogDeMorgoth Firstly, never said economic sanctions were as evil as genocide. Never have. Secondly, there is a huge fundamental flaw with what you're saying despite how smart you think you are. We're talking about 'evil' not 'merit'. Slavery, the kind where you treat them like livestock, -is- equally evil to genocide. Because you're removing their rights as 'humans'. The difference is one just gets rid of the, the other makes use of them, but the level of 'evil' is the same. It takes the same level of disregard for the other group's humanity.

Also if the witches did nothing the humans would not "Already be slaves" brain dead group thought is not the same as being a slave. There is no guarantee that humanity would turn into slaves. Unless you're actually foolish enough to think that this world, with different laws of physics, different history, and different tech level(They freakin had smart phones when they turned on the witches), would've went like our world, which might I add, 99% of humans on our world didn't become slaves either.

So it's actually your argument that really doesn't have a foundation unless we talk about objective merit of each option. If we're talking about the hard facts of the situation, slavery does less 'damage' to the world as a whole yes. However, 'evil' is about morality and thought. Not about how much 'harm' you did. Or are you to say that stabbing someone after mugging them is 'more evil' than stalking someone, kidnapping them and making them a sex slave, because the person lived at the end? I think you can understand with that that 'evil' isn't fundamentally based on 'quantifiable damage', it goes beyond that.

If we wanted to 'quantify' evil, it wouldn't be based on what action you took, or the end result, but rather how much disregard for humanity you had when you made your decision. Even the definitions for evil speak of an absence of good or morality, 'damage' never comes into play. So it's about how 'anti-good' your decision is. Like for instance, "putting someone out of their misery' is not seen as evil, even though it's killing someone. Meaning the act of 'ending a life' isn't the evil, it's the conditions for which it was ended. So you have to look to more than just things like "The person survived." to judge how evil something is.

 

[NickD15]

Being a background character in this manga is a literal death sentence.

 

[BalrogDeMorgoth]

@cor3zone 'd-d-d-d-da english bad !!!' Keep crying, I could literally be speaking like a racist chinese stereotype and it wouldn't change how I (amongst others) humiliated you publicly.

'everyone who humiliated me is a troll !!!' Or maybe you're just a dumbass.

'y-y-y-y-you're not da valid !!!!' Lol, once again curling up into a ball and crying when someone ask you to prove your point, I see XD

No, I'm right because reality say so, which make me objectively right.

No one cares what you agree with, getting the approval of a desperate dumbass like you isn't a criteria for objectivity.

No, I laughed at your dumb argument, You got upset, everyone humiliated you further, you then tried to play the insult game and then get even more humiliated, you didn't follow any suit, buddy.

But I wouldn't expect an idiot in denial like you to be honest XD.

@WillLi Yes, you did, that's the entier basis of your point about 'the dude who commit genocide is just as bad as the guy who put sanction on his country', otherwise you admit it's completly unrelated to what we are talking about here.

God, it's painful how obvious it is that you're trying to look smart while having no fucking clue what you're talking about.

No, it fucking doesn't and even if you were right, Murder is just as evil as slavery so either of them = 1, so someone who is a slaver or a murder = 1 while someone who is both = 2 so once again, I am right and humans are worst, your mental gymnatics changed nothing.

They already are slaves, you idiot, you tried really hard to sound smart but you completly failed here, read what I actualy said next time.

The humans already enslave each other IN THE STORY, i'm not talking about the past or IRL, slavery is something that currently happen in the story, holy shit you're either very dumb and didn't read a single word I said.

Don't go on a tangent unrelated to anything I said, okay ?

You're the one who said your evil is based on your actions, don't change your tune just because it doesn't serve your point anymore.

The rest of that paragraphe is just another tangent unrelated to anything I said.

So once again, the end result is that No, genocide =/= Slavery =/= economic sanction, all three of those are clearly not as evil as each other and even if we say they are, only one of the two sides cumulates those so humans are still worst than the witches even if you ignores that the witches didn't even do shit in the end.

 

[WillLi]

@Invader_Retro chapter 9, witches have human slaves, and the MC implies that their plan is to enslave all humans, they're not innocent. They -were- innocent(at least based on information we have) in the past, but they are not now.

@cor3zone Few things wrong with what your'e saying, first, even the justification of the genocide isn't one sided. Literally their reason is "Witches hamper human progress" it's not even that the witches tried to kill them or anything. <.< Their excuse is "Humans can't get better if witches are around so we gotta kill them all". They themselves literally said that at the start of this. Not sure how that's them telling a story to justify this.

The other thing you're wrong about. Is why the people came at you. -You- said unprompted "Everyone is equally justified in their right for vengeance". Not only do the humans not ever talk about 'revenge'. But with the information given as the two who came at you mentioned, no the humans are -not- justified at all. And this is where we get into my point about you 'with holding judgement' and pissing people off. Nothing in this story is designed to lead you to believe that the humans actually have any justification. Maybe they actually do have one, but there is zero reason to assume that with how it was written. Just as you can say "Maybe they had a reason" everyone else can say "Maybe they didn't" and no discussion can go anywhere if people do that. That is why your way of thinking is wrong, not because your answer is 'incorrect' but because you are stonewalling discussion with a baseless argument that can not be disproved until later. That's not debating, that's being an asshat. It's like saying "No you!" when someone insults you it's dumb.

Like I mentioned before, you're 'wrong' as long as you participate in a debate with a "well maybe this is what's happening" attitude with no facts behind it. If you leave the debate and keep that attitude, fine, you're good. If you change that attitude and stay in, then you're good too. But you can't do both, not if you want to be 'right' because that is literally against the 'rules of debate'.

 

[cor3zone]

@BalrogDeMorgoth
Well, at least I'm not too dumb to understand the insults. You seem to be, since you keep pulling that same move.😂

 

[Nokaru]

This is just too brutal and cruel to be enjoyable

 

[BalrogDeMorgoth]

@cor3zone That would imply I actualy care about your insults, buddy but I'm not you, I don't care XD

Also nice to see you finaly dropped all your dumb points, still waiting on your apologie for being dumb.

 

[cor3zone]

@WillLi
That is one-sided, fool. Humans decided the witches were in the way. Witches didn't think they were. One. Sided. Humans are justifying the genocide, why the fuck would the witches?

Did you not read the chapter? Everything happening in this chapter is the revenge of one man. The entire manga is built on the revenge of one man. Revenge is a major fucking theme.

I am withholding judgment regarding the witches being less evil. Did you miss that point? Currently they are just as evil as the humans. Humans have the worse known past, but that changes nothing about the present. It is literally everyone else saying maybe, based on the unknown past. I am judging based on what is happening right fucking now. Like I said, I always have been.

You are not even reading my points, and you try to judge me. Fuck off, again.

@BalrogDeMorgoth
Haha, dat English tho. Is that more to your understanding? I haven't dropped my points, you're just too dumb to offer any legitimate counter-arguments. Why defend against strawmen?

 

[WillLi]

@BalrogDeMorgoth even if we used your simplified logic, you're actually not right, because there are more then 2 humans per witch out there. Also slavery wouldn't be '1' by those standards as slavery is entrapment, plus whatever individual other htings you tack on. So if they beat the slaves, that's another one, if they rape them, that's another one, if they work them to death, that's another one. Don't be stupid.

Second, you must be mentally challanged cause my point never said the sanction was equal to the genocide. I -specifically- said, and I quote

"But all his genocide in the squeal isn't -as- evil because the only reason it happened is cause all the big countries treated his country like shit."

As mentioned in previous post, the point was to highlight the stupidity of the idea "Just because someone did something evil to you first your evil is less" Never once did I say "Something equal" in reference to the first and second action. It doesn't matter if the first was even worse than the second. It doesn't make the second less evil. That was my point, which I explicit said in the next post with.

The point is, returning evil for evil does not make your evil less evil.

Again, no mention of evil for 'equal evil'. Simple doing evil because you were done evil does not make your's -less- evil.

If you're going to assert I said something, at least make it something I haven't multiple times said is not what I'm saying, while having actually specifically pointed out what I actually said and meant.

As for the "humans already enslaving eachother" firstly that's prison of some kind. Second, that's -1- country not the whole world. 3rd, we have no idea what % of the population that is. Yeah humans enslaved humans, but we don't know the scale of it, and if you try to make assertions you're just doing the same thing as Cor3zone.

Also for the record, I haven't changed my 'definition' of evil...or did you not learn basic grammar. "Making a decision" is an action. So if it's based on your decisions, and the mentality you had when you made it, that's still based on your actions.

Now I have to got sleep, I wont be responding to you tomorrow cause I have actual things to do then. But it's not like you understand the principle of morality any way. I suggest studying it some.