Akuyaku Reijou no Ani ni Tensei Shimashita - Vol. 7 Ch. 38

[Jayswing103]

I wanna drink Diana water!😭😭😭

 

[tnemmoComment]

Feels very Tanya-like to send academic-type competition away onto another career path.

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For someone who's failed the entrance exam 3 times already, he seems awfully unprepared. If he knows ahead of time to create 3 new spells, then he's had as many days as it's been since his first attempt to create some. There doesn't seem to be any special constraints that get revealed the day the exam is issued, so there's nothing stopping him from getting a head start.

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As cute as Diana's attempt was, has no mage ever thought to produce hot water before? The challenge is to create new spells, not have a novel approach to problem solving... though it does make for a good source of inspiration, but that's besides the point.

 

[Abricomas]

For someone who's failed the entrance exam 3 times already, he seems awfully unprepared. If he knows ahead of time to create 3 new spells, then he's had as many days as it's been since his first attempt to create some. There doesn't seem to be any special constraints that get revealed the day the exam is issued, so there's nothing stopping him from getting a head start.

Look at how he thinks. He thought that rote mastery of the prepared materials was the only thing required for the exam.
I think it's unlikely that someone with such a narrow view and inflated sense of self-importance (notice how he looked down on others who experimented and tried the unconventional) would ever consider that he didn't understand the point of the exam, or have any self-reflection on why he failed.
It seemed that he didn't even know what the requirements to pass were, which meant that he never even bothered to ask.
I think it's a good look at Maximillian's character, and why he was rejected in the first place.

 

[DeadToReal]

I took it because there's also a lot of rest days😂

I'm sure the nice hourly wage in this economy had absolutely nothing to do with it 😗

 

[DeadToReal]

No, I don't think so.
Because the Mage Corps in this setting is apparently, like you said, the NASA of magic from how Tillnoa described it, it would want the magic equivalent of Ph.D's in it's full-fledged ranks.
A doctorate thesis is significant and original research, so this organization is asking for something similar. Like with the cup of water example, it doesn't have to be ground-breaking or overpowered, but simply show that you are capable of some non-linear thinking (like Di just creating new hot water to fill the cup).

Maximillian is skilled, but the most he could be is a Master, not a Professor.

But being knowledgeable is completely different from inventing not one... not two.... Three new magics.

Are you really comparing people with doctorate degrees with people like Nicola Tesla and Henry Ford? Because that is essentially what that whole exam is about. Anyone that wants to join the Mage Corps has to actually invent new magics, instead of just being really knowledgeable in their field. NASA employs thousands of people. How many of those have ever, and will ever invent something in their lifetimes?

And Maximillian has already been acknowledged as being very knowledgeable and skilled with magic. He is one of the top of his class and was Diana's teacher in one of the routes of the game. The entire reason he failed is Because he wasn't creative enough to invent 3 new magics.

 

[kevin282819]

Ngl I thought Diana was going to warm the water up in her mouth and spit it back out into the cup to qualify it as an unconventional heating it up.

 

[Digidestined701]

Am I the only one who thinks it's incredibly stupid for people to invent 3 new magics to join what seems like magical knights/researchers? It would be like NASA making a requirement for people to be like Elon Musk to simply join.

To be fair, from all the examples given this chapter, creating new magic isn't that difficult. A lot of the people they talk to seem to be servants, but they've all developed their own magic to solve inconvenient things.
It seems like the purpose of the test is to test creativity and problem solving, not getting them to create entirely new, never-before-seen concepts

 

[Abricomas]

But being knowledgeable is completely different from inventing not one... not two.... Three new magics.

Are you really comparing people with doctorate degrees with people like Nicola Tesla and Henry Ford? Because that is essentially what that whole exam is about. Anyone that wants to join the Mage Corps has to actually invent new magics, instead of just being really knowledgeable in their field. NASA employs thousands of people. How many of those have ever, and will ever invent something in their lifetimes?

And Maximillian has already been acknowledged as being very knowledgeable and skilled with magic. He is one of the top of his class and was Diana's teacher in one of the routes of the game. The entire reason he failed is Because he wasn't creative enough to invent 3 new magics.

They're not inventing completely new fields of magic. The examples given are new spells, like a hot air spell to dry hair, or a spell to clean the hems of dresses. It is very specifically three new spells.
Your examples are completely off base from the examples given in the chapter.

 

[DeadToReal]

They're not inventing completely new fields of magic. The examples given are new spells, like a hot air spell to dry hair, or a spell to clean the hems of dresses. It is very specifically three new spells.
Your examples are completely off base from the examples given in the chapter.

How am I off base? What these people want are not simply people that are skilled and knowledgeable in magic. What they really want are inventors.

And I gave two examples of people who invented new ways of doing things IN their field. Nicola Tesla did not create field of electricity distribution. He simply came up with an alternate way of transmitting electricity that competed with Thomas Edison's direct current. Henry Ford did not create the automobile, nor automobile mass production. He simply thought of a way to simplify its manufacturing in the form of the assembly line.

And how exactly are all the people at NASA creating new processes or theories for aerospace science and engineering? And even if we limit it to those who are exclusively working on those space probes, how many of those people had to create something new just to be employed in the first place?

 

[DeadToReal]

To be fair, from all the examples given this chapter, creating new magic isn't that difficult. A lot of the people they talk to seem to be servants, but they've all developed their own magic to solve inconvenient things.
It seems like the purpose of the test is to test creativity and problem solving, not getting them to create entirely new, never-before-seen concepts

The test was for all of those things at the same time. The Mage Corp does not simply want skilled and knowledgeable people. What they want are inventors. And the way to prove they can invent things are to force them to create new spells.

The problem with your statement is that you're looking at things in hindsight. There are numerous things in history that seem so stupidly obvious that it is really easy to say: "How stupid are those people in not seeing the obvious solution/answer?"

I believe NASA famously spent millions of dollars to invent a pen that would work in zero gravity. The Soviets simply used a pencil. NASA also lost a several hundred million dollar probe to Mars because the contractor they hired forgot to convert their instruments to metric. Yes, the last one isn't an invention, but it still points to how seemingly obvious things are only obvious in hindsight.

 

[Abricomas]

How am I off base? What these people want are not simply people that are skilled and knowledgeable in magic. What they really want are inventors.

And I gave two examples of people who invented new ways of doing things IN their field. Nicola Tesla did not create field of electricity distribution. He simply came up with an alternate way of transmitting electricity that competed with Thomas Edison's direct current. Henry Ford did not create the automobile, nor automobile mass production. He simply thought of a way to simplify its manufacturing in the form of the assembly line.

And how exactly are all the people at NASA creating new processes or theories for aerospace science and engineering? And even if we limit it to those who are exclusively working on those space probes, how many of those people had to create something new just to be employed in the first place?

Because all of the examples given in the chapter of new spells that would count for the purposes of the exam are small and not industry defining like the inventions you described. Even the hair-dryer spell is just a simple update to an already existing wind spell by making it heated.
That's the kind of research and development that a doctorate thesis requires. Which is equivalent to developing new spells of the type that they were showing in the chapter.

NASA as an organization needs technicians and engineers at all levels, to do construction and maintenance as well as the development of new things, which do require people with Ph.D's. And a Ph.D thesis has the similar requirement of this entrance exam by requiring the development of a new idea.
And the Mage Corps can be more selective in their hiring practices, since they don't need the maintenance and support staff that NASA requires.
But even NASA wants a Ph.D for specialized and research roles, which the Mage Corps is hiring for, so they want someone who can invent something new and has a proven talent for it. Just as someone who has a Ph.D has proven they can do by submitting a thesis.

You're off base because you seem to think that an invention or research needs to be something that has to reach the level of an Edison, Tesla, or Ford, when it doesn't. It only needs to be a doctorate thesis, which shows the ability to research and push the boundaries of knowledge. Something which is needed for research and senior project leader positions at NASA, and which is needed for the Mage Corps, and which Maximillian has shown that he was incapable of before.

You're the one who brought up NASA first, assuming that it and the Mage Corps are equivalent and that not everyone should have to be an accomplished inventor to be hired into either one. But as you said, this is a researcher position, not that of a lab technician, a maintenance engineer, or some other support personnel. Why wouldn't they require someone have experience or talent at research and development?

I believe NASA famously spent millions of dollars to invent a pen that would work in zero gravity. The Soviets simply used a pencil. NASA also lost a several hundred million dollar probe to Mars because the contractor they hired forgot to convert their instruments to metric. Yes, the last one isn't an invention, but it still points to how seemingly obvious things are only obvious in hindsight.

The reason for the pen is that in space and microgravity, graphite doesn't stay on the paper, and specks of it that come off the pencil are a fire hazard that can get behind panels and into wiring. That's not a good example of hindsight being better, it's an example of the obvious answer being the wrong answer because it assumes too much that is wrong about the situation.

 

[DeadToReal]

Because all of the examples given in the chapter of new spells that would count for the purposes of the exam are small and not industry defining like the inventions you described. Even the hair-dryer spell is just a simple update to an already existing wind spell by making it heated.
That's the kind of research and development that a doctorate thesis requires. Which is equivalent to developing new spells of the type that they were showing in the chapter.

NASA as an organization needs technicians and engineers at all levels, to do construction and maintenance as well as the development of new things, which do require people with Ph.D's. And a Ph.D thesis has the similar requirement of this entrance exam by requiring the development of a new idea.
And the Mage Corps can be more selective in their hiring practices, since they don't need the maintenance and support staff that NASA requires.
But even NASA wants a Ph.D for specialized and research roles, which the Mage Corps is hiring for, so they want someone who can invent something new and has a proven talent for it. Just as someone who has a Ph.D has proven they can do by submitting a thesis.

You're off base because you seem to think that an invention or research needs to be something that has to reach the level of an Edison, Tesla, or Ford, when it doesn't. It only needs to be a doctorate thesis, which shows the ability to research and push the boundaries of knowledge. Something which is needed for research and senior project leader positions at NASA, and which is needed for the Mage Corps, and which Maximillian has shown that he was incapable of before.

You're the one who brought up NASA first, assuming that it and the Mage Corps are equivalent and that not everyone should have to be an accomplished inventor to be hired into either one. But as you said, this is a researcher position, not that of a lab technician, a maintenance engineer, or some other support personnel. Why wouldn't they require someone have experience or talent at research and development?

Nearly everything today is built upon something that was already existing before. Completely new and industry defining inventions are exceptionally rare things that only happen once or twice in a person's lifetime. A thesis is an argument in support of, or against a position/idea. You can develop a new idea/approach to support your position, but it is not a requirement. It just has to be on a level worthy of your academic peers. That is different from developing new types of inventions/ways of doing things the Mage Corps requires.

The reason why I gave those examples is because they are the some of the most well-known and easiest to understand to people unfamiliar with these things. I am not going to go down the rabbit hole just to find some random invention/method that very few people even know about, just to satisfy all your specific requirements. This is supposed to be a manga discussion, not an academic debate on a university level. I am here to read and enjoy manga -- not get into drawn-out, detailed discussions on an academic level.

And, yes, I did bring up NASA first, as a well-known example. I did never argue that NASA didn't want Ph.D's for higher level, specialized positions. I said that NASA didn't require those people to invent new things specifically to be hired to those positions. And I have never said the Mage Corps were exclusively researchers. I specifically referred to them as magical knights or researchers because it never specifically mentioned what exactly they actually do. I was simply throwing out guesses based on previous manga I have read, which means that I do not actually know what they really are. And until it is specifically mentioned in the manga, neither do you.

The reason for the pen is that in space and microgravity, graphite doesn't stay on the paper, and specks of it that come off the pencil are a fire hazard that can get behind panels and into wiring. That's not a good example of hindsight being better, it's an example of the obvious answer being the wrong answer because it assumes too much that is wrong about the situation.

So I made an error using the space pen as an example. My point is still that some things are only obvious in hindsight. This holds true for everything from science to politics to cultural things. I'm sure you can think of a few examples yourself.

 

[Abricomas]

A thesis is an argument in support of, or against a position/idea.

I specified a doctoral thesis, because what you described is just a master's thesis, or a thesis in a regular paper, and not a doctoral thesis.
A doctoral thesis is original research that extends the boundaries of knowledge in a given field, that's why people who complete one get their thesis published and are given the title of Doctor. Which is what the Mage Corps are supposed to do, according to Tillnoa.

I was simply throwing out guesses based on previous manga I have read, which means that I do not actually know what they really are. And until it is specifically mentioned in the manga, neither do you.

I think Tillnoa's explanation of what is considered a true Mage, and the purpose of the Mage Corps, is a good enough mention of what the Mage Corps expects in its members, regardless of whether we see them in action aside from Tillnoa.
That mastering the organized, academic magic taught at the Academy is just the starting point for a true Mage (just as it is for a person aiming for a Ph.D), that being skilled in combat magic is just a part of being in the Mage Corps, and that conducting research and driving development is a major part of the Corps' mission. Considering that becoming a member of the Corps also is a path to getting a noble title, and a pretty good one if Magic Marquis is any indication, then it makes sense for the Mage Corps to be looking for more than just a combat magic specialist knight that the Academy's magic system can turn out.

 

[DeadToReal]

I specified a doctoral thesis, because what you described is just a master's thesis, or a thesis in a regular paper, and not a doctoral thesis.
A doctoral thesis is original research that extends the boundaries of knowledge in a given field, that's why people who complete one get their thesis published and are given the title of Doctor. Which is what the Mage Corps are supposed to do, according to Tillnoa.

Original research extending the boundaries of knowledge can mean several things. Among those are laboratory research and results from things like observing cancer. Such things do not have to result in a breakthrough, but taking part in the research and experiments of it would count as original research. Theorizing possible things based on that research does extend the boundaries of knowledge, because it opens or reinforces possibilities that people might not have thought of before.

I think Tillnoa's explanation of what is considered a true Mage, and the purpose of the Mage Corps, is a good enough mention of what the Mage Corps expects in its members, regardless of whether we see them in action aside from Tillnoa.
That mastering the organized, academic magic taught at the Academy is just the starting point for a true Mage (just as it is for a person aiming for a Ph.D), that being skilled in combat magic is just a part of being in the Mage Corps, and that conducting research and driving development is a major part of the Corps' mission. Considering that becoming a member of the Corps also is a path to getting a noble title, and a pretty good one if Magic Marquis is any indication, then it makes sense for the Mage Corps to be looking for more than just a combat magic specialist knight that the Academy's magic system can turn out.

I re-read the chapter, so I'll admit that what they are looking for is someone proficient in all areas. But I still insist that requiring people to invent three new magic spells is unreasonable for joining a research organization. Even those Ph.D's that you keep bringing up only require one original thing with the latest research to back it up.

My point is that you are equating research the same as actually inventing something. People can actually become doctors without having to actually invent or discover something. If people had to come up with some new invention or some groundbreaking theory to get their Ph.D's, hardly anyone would ever get their degrees at all.

Another point is that you seem to confuse NASA's requirements for high level positions, the same as the Mage Corp ridiculous requirement of having to invent 3 new spells, just to join the organization. These are supposed to be entry level jobs - not high level ones. NASA would never get anything done if entry level engineering and other technical jobs had the requirement to invent something new before being hired. There simply would not be enough people who meet that qualification. This is because actually inventing something is completely different from making leading research and theories. Not to mention the cost of actually funding those inventions, so they actually become real, in the first place. If making one new invention is hard, just imagine how hard it would be to make three new inventions.

 

[Phantaminium]

I hope you enjoyed today's chapter and I hope I also improved drastically on my translations, I tried using non italic and non bold font on this chapter as a change since I'm trying to make myself comfortable with using a normal font. Anyways status update on the last page🙇‍♂️

Have fun at uni champ and thanks for the TL.

I somehow feel like even this small set of interactions with Diana could become twisted down the line by outside influence, probably the same way as the black haired chick did before.

 

[kenkagejack]

It would be like NASA making a requirement for people to be like Elon Musk to simply join.

The more I think about it, the less sense I can make of this line. Owning a Tech Company and actually being a head of technology are two very different things (even though Musk gets treated as both anyway).

That'd be like Maximillian inheriting the family head title and using the political sway and financial backing to force the Court Mages to accept him (whereas if that were viable, he could have asked his father to do that for him).

 

[chojinra]

Be careful of that raven haired beauty mind control!

 

[Abricomas]

(whereas if that were viable, he could have asked his father to do that for him).

Well, Maximillian's grandfather DID try to do that (3 times), and the Court Mages, and Tillnoa in particular, rejected it each time because they knew that if allowed, it would mean more political meddling in the Mage Corps' affairs.