Concerning the US Protests and Our Rules

[hollyguild]

Ah, I regret reading the first few pages of comments.

@Plykiya + mods: I support the protests 100% and am following events closely on other sites, but I think your practical reasons for not allowing political messages in scanlations directly and in the chapter comments are valid. Moderation of such a big site is already hard. If you banned all political discussion from the site entirely I would find that is a little bit overbearing because political things effect people's lives and show up in manga all the time, but leaving this topic to the General forum is fair. That way people who want to ignore USA politics can if they want to and people who want to talk about it can. Staying "neutral" is always very fraught because by being neutral you are by default taking the side of the person/opinion who is strongest at the moment. Beware of that terminology and focus on being fair and equitable, not neutral.

I personally regret every time I bring up important issues on this site because of the number of users who have very shallow understanding and refuse to learn new things...

 

[gatordreams16]

@ocsbirm yes this exactly thank you

 

[anon763]

@yuz79336

Here are a couple examples from clicking on a few of the links:
"We provide support for actions that are anti-patriarchal, anti-racist, anti-imperialist & anti-capitalist"

You need to think about the nature of bail funds asking for donations as a concept.
A bail fund should not need much income. Bail is not a payment. It is a security deposit. You do not actually lose the bail, unless you violate the terms of the release. That is what it's for: to ensure the accused has an incentive not to flee the jurisdiction or continue (or begin) to engage in illegal acts. In most cases you don't actually hand over the money in the first place; it's an agreement that the money or property will be seized if the terms are broken. That is why houses can be used even while the people putting it up as bail still live there. Even where there is an initial deposit it's usually not the full amount (the exception generally being when the flight risk is considered high).
The bail funds that are most "in need" of donations are those that most frequently side with rioters who go right back to rioting once the bail fund gets them out, since those are the times the bail fund actually loses money it puts up.

 

[yuz79336]

@anon763 I know how it works. The point is that the organizations support the violent protesters, not just the peaceful ones. By advertising their websites and suggesting that users donate to them, Mangadex isn't staying neutral; they're taking the side of the rioters and looters. They could maintain neutrality by selecting a subset that only supports non-violent protesters (such as the one I linked in my post), but they have chosen not to do that.

 

[Halo]

@yuz79336 I think you're overestimating how many looters and rioters being arrested versus peaceful protesters and unrelated passersby. If more guys like this (essential worker arrested for breaking curfew) can get help, I think the overall cause is worth it. Besides, they're already releasing someone with second-degree assault without bail.

In case of these two organizations I have to agree. They do appear extreme and, browsing their social media, promote or excuse violence. Which is unfortunate, but at least they don't try to hide it.
At first I wanted to contact the curator of this list, but he does appear to share some extreme views himself. So yeah, this particular list shouldn't be included. Rather, a generic message like "do your research and decide for yourself" will suffice.

The injustice today is police brutality that has been universally denounced by everyone with authority in government with the perpetrator and associates charged with crimes

🙄 sure

On Thursday, New York City Mayor Bill de Blasio, an erstwhile progressive, denied having seen viral footage of protesters “being hit with batons” on Wednesday night. “I have not seen the videos that you referred to or seen those accounts, but if there is anything that needs to be reviewed, it will be,” he told a reporter. New York Gov. Andrew Cuomo later called a reporter’s question about police having hit peaceful protesters with batons a “hyperpartisan attack.” Said Cuomo: “They don’t do that.”

- slate

 

[anon763]

@yuz79336
Pointing people to donate to anything related to the protests, regardless of its purpose or who it supports, is not being neutral, and undermines their stance of "mangadex is for manga, not politics". But the specific choice in who they've endorsed is particularly bad on top of that.

 

[Mingxingxing]

All lives matter.

I agree to no politics discussion in manga chapter forums.

While we are mostly at home, even in your boredom, do not do stupid video challenge that could endanger you or another person.

If you must protest, please adhere to physical distancing rules, your lungs are not recycling every 3 months like your red blood cells.

Stay safe everyone.

 

[yuz79336]

@Halo That statement was specifically in reference to the Floyd murder because that's what sparked everything. As far as I can tell, those officers' actions been universally denounced. Additionally, the rioting has targeted unrelated private property and civilians, which is a different scope of effect than the Boston Tea Party. The wording was overly broad, but the point still stands. Claiming that the rioting and looting today is analogous to the Boston Tea Party is not historically accurate.

Even if they are in the minority of people detained, the fact that a number of these organizations support them is notable. Bailing out the delivery guy would indeed be a worthy cause, but it shouldn't need to come at the expense of bailing out real criminals.

 

[Tlos]

Love it when people say all lives matter and purposely ignore its origins as a subversion of the blm movement

 

[Tamerlane]

I automatically have the disposition to distrust any reporting of the riots that's not a primary source.

Overall, I'd suggest following links through, getting to original source and remove intermediaries like the MSM and other tabloids. Everyone wants to push a specific agenda about these riots, so I'd give it a while for things to blow over so we can evaluate the facts without too much in the way of people's political biases

@Tlos I think that it's important because the point is that it's a Kafka trap. If you don't like the Organization of BLM or what to disassociate yourself from some of the actions, you'll be slammed as thinking that "black lives don't matter," when that's not your actual stance. All Lives Matter isn't an organization, but a declaration that you still think that black lives do matter, you just don't want to be associated specifically with any individual organization or movement.

I personally don't like some of the actions done in the name of BLM. (The one I most vehemently detest is the beating of an autistic boy that was live-stream as the people in the background shouted "Fuck white people; fuck trump!"-which hit me as someone on the spectrum myself. Naturally, these are individuals who committed these actions and you can argue they don't represent the group as a whole, but the same could be said of the individual officers who have committed the crimes and whatever biases they may have. It's a catch-22 of a defense.) I do want to take actions in the US to make it so police are less prone to extreme use of physical force with more prolong training and a deeper sense of unity, whilst I think that BLM is more racially divisive as an organization and ill-equipped to handle the solution of the problem-especially as the organization itself is driven by profit and activism more so than solving the issues at hand, like other lobbying groups.

 

[Tlos]

@Tamerlane I understand wanting to distance yourself from blm because of these things, but saying all lives matter def isn’t the way to go about it imo.

 

[Tamerlane]

You say you want a revolution;
Well, you know,
We all want to change the world.
You tell me that it's evolution;
Well, you know,
We all want to change the world.
But when you talk about destruction,
Don't you know that you can count me out?
Don't you know it's gonna be?
All right, all right, all right

@Tlos I mean, as a laconic means of doing so, I think it carries with it an overall point.

It's too easy to defame and dehumanize, to blame one party and to breakdown communication.

The Police are human, too.

The Blacks who are affected are human, too.

The White who are affected are human, too.

It's too often people want to jump to extremes without considering the other side, or actively seek ways to dismiss their point of view or justify them not being given the means to express themselves.

I will agree, however, that I do have a problem with catch-phrase politics where we shift the discussion from the statements "black lives matter" and "all lives matter" in lieu of the actual issue because we've manipulated the framing so much that we can no longer address the actual point and have to speak in code.

 

[Tlos]

@Tamerlane on a side note, I’ve started to read Invisible Man after you quoted it, it’s quite good so far

 

[Tamerlane]

@Tlos It's one of my favorite books, though you do need to know your history a bit to understand things like the commentary on Booker T. Washington.


It gets super fucked up later, but that's part of the underlying messages and themes of the work. It's a really damn good book not just as commentary about individualism in a world increasingly divided by racial prejudices and stereotypes-I'd argue Ellison makes a good point of creating nuances and not being so fast to categorize based on race (Hence why the people MC calls "the sleeping ones" are never associated with a race)-and the overlying absurdism in it.

Honestly, I can relate to the main character and his struggles more than pretty much any other fictional character, which is impressive in and of itself considering how he is nameless. For what is a non-hero living in a world where he is treated by everyone to be a background character in his own life, he sure does take everything that ends up happening to him in stride.

 

[Halo]

@yuz79336

As far as I can tell, those officers' actions been universally denounced.

It took several days of protesting. During this time, more cases of police brutality surfaced - new and old. Cases that were not denounced, or denounced extremely reluctantly. Which then led to looting, rioting and more police brutality. And here we have top NYC clowns uttering "doesn't look like anything to me" when asked about police brutality towards protesters.
Nothing really changed. Although I don't approve of violence, I can see why many use it as the last resort. Nothing sends the message more than cops charged with second-degree assault getting standing ovation.

Bailing out the delivery guy would indeed be a worthy cause, but it shouldn't need to come at the expense of bailing out real criminals.

They're not real criminals until convicted.

 

[Kaulu]

I must admit I do cringe a little whenever someone states "all lives matter" and think that means they've somehow won something. As part of a properly laid out point and not just a lone phrase I fully agree with it. My main issue with blm as a movement is that while they have valid concerns at times, the group is also infested with racists who shout things like "white privilege" to ignore and shout down anyone who is white who dares not toe the line. For the most part though, it's not exactly malicious. These people have suffered in their lives, well, some of them. There is of course rich college kids just looking for a cause to fight for. So I fully believe a lot of blm do indeed believe the world is stacked against them. Question is, how would one change that viewpoint without falling to serfdom just to appease.

 

[AnimeRequired]

Going by what's on Statista + CBS and when controlling for population, there's about 15 times as many people shot by police in America compared to my country. So there's definitely a problem with police violence. Controlling for crime rates, though, I don't really see the issue with race and I think it distracts from the actual issue and what can be done about it.

About 180 black people are shot to death by police every year, so that's one person every two days, and the major news channels have nation-wide coverage, and those cases get a lot of coverage... At that rate, I'd also start thinking there's some sort of epidemic of police violence against black folks. Maybe looking at this from a national perspective isn't the right way to go about things.

Also: Looting and theft are bad no matter what way you slice it, and given the damage to cities like Minneapolis (got a list of damaged buildings from a local news source) it seems like there are a lot of bad actors. Don't just tolerate those people, because they hurt innocent bystanders.

Again, not from the US so if anyone's got something more about this, I'm all ears ..

 

[kawaiidogkittyq]

Honestly I get the staff’s decision to stay neutral, however I hope the protests and such can help people learn more about the corrupt police system in America with the ‘blue wall of silence’, its racist origins, and so so much video evidence seen of police attacking unarmed protesters unprovoked. This goes for other countries as well. Most gen Z and millennials in America are very much liberal especially with much widespread hate of trump in our country, so many are willing to protest and speak out. I hope that other citizens in other countries can rise up against their own oppressive system or government through this movement, and guide our world to a better future.

If you want to learn more please look up George Floyd, black lives matter, black victims of unprovoked police violence over the years, and even a black women brutally murdered and likely serving in the military that was ruled as a ‘suicide’.

Honestly, most looting and rioting is done by undercover police officers looking to place the blame on the protesters, as well as selfish people who don’t actually support the movement but use it as an excuse to break into and steal from establishments. Police will also act peaceful for media coverage and propaganda, which is disgusting. There may be some bad protesters, and there sure is a hell of a lot of bad cops, but admittedly racist and violent cops have been a thing behind the scenes for a very long time, and George Floyd and his media coverage was the last straw. Of course innocent people will be caught in the crossfire on both sides, but I believe that this was inevitable.

White supremacist groups have been protected by police during this time which is insane because peaceful protesters for BLM and police brutality have been beaten, tear gassed and shot at with rubber bullets UNPROVOKED.

When white people protesting for stores to open back up, were armed and spit in cops’ faces at the White House, trump described them as ‘very good people’. The protesters for the blm, police brutality etc. are referred to as ‘thugs’ by him.

Prostesters, medics and even media are harassed and threatened by the police. 911 turns a blind eye and hangs up when protesters call for protection from the police, which is absolutely disgusting. Tiktok has become extremely political, and you can find endless amounts of live clips of these protests turning violent, warnings of colored arm bands signaling undercover police posing as protesters, how to treat rubber bullet wounds, tear gas, and the list continues.

I just hope that others will be able to acknowledge the widespread police brutality and racism here, and I hope that I can learn more about similar issues in other nations.

Those who refute black lives matter with all lives matter are ignorant that all lives matter was created to delegitimize the movement. As a non-black citizen in the US, we should be aware of our privilege, realize that racism is still extremely prevalent especially within the police system, and support our friends and family through this.

Some cops may not be violent and the scum of the earth, but there are way too many bad apples at this point to distinguish. The system as a whole needs to change, because the officers who comply with things like ‘blue wall of silence’ silently comply with the terrible, terrible police system and with their violent coworkers.

 

[Skuzze]

It's okay to be white.

 

[AB2000]

Most of the emojis available in the comments user interface of MD have a yellow skin, but I don't think it's racism.