Dark Summoner to Dekiteiru - Vol. 2 Ch. 17

[Remocracy]

After all, I'm not Islamaphobe if I don't worship their god, or a non-muslim woman is Islamaphobe if they don't cover their skin when meeting a male Muslim. So why are others immediately silenced and branded as transphobes when they merely lived by their own culture/belief and did not adopt yours? Could you really blame them for thinking all of this as forcing the transgender culture down their throat?

If you said that thinking any religion but Christianity makes you mentally ill to a Muslim, that would make you Islamophobic. If you call a Muslim creepy for praying 5 times a day that would also be Islamophobic. It’s not that hard to not be an asshole. If you don’t like trans people then just don’t say anything and ignore them I guess

 

[YurushiteHyacinth]

Man these comments are a fucking dumpster fire lol

Pretty much what happens every time even just a genderbent character comes up in a story. Doesn't even have to be provoked by trans folks claiming the character as one of their own, fellas just roll in unprompted with their Opinions(tm).

 

[Exile]

Bro literally injected politics into it. Characters Being fucking gay or trans isn’t political, but saying people who write gay or trans characters or plots into comics or manga are destroying culture is political. what are ”they” doing to “our” culture btw. Spell that shit out for me broski

I am sorry but that became politics, it wasnt or at least widespread but look at how you cannot even talk about traps without getting people going on about identity politics ... we had Poison that was original a women that became trans because "cannot hit women in bideograms" as a way to bypass it with no outcry about it and now we have Bridget that had his origin story altered so there could be "representation".

Why do you think we having this conversations, I could say both cares are wrong ... that Poison should never been changed into a man just because of a perceived notion about women just like Bridget had his backstory changed in order to fill a ESG quota. Both are very much the same wrong motivated for the same thing.

You know what destroys culture? commercialization and just look at what happened to music were its all the same shit for the last 2 decades (God, that is depressing even if there are the occasional good here and there but compared with the 60-90s), the only reason there is the so called "representation" is because of people playing the game of filling in checkboxes but in relation to comics as they been on decline even before the wokeism due to ... well, some rather stupid commercial decisions (such as effectively switching demographics) that was accelerated due to cronyism and nepotism fueled by the daddy WB or Disney paying the bills and the whole Netflix deal some writers (that never wanted to write comics in the first place) were aiming at that certainly accelerated its demise even when at the height of the MCU they were losing sales.

Are there crusaders ... sure, same with manga as some authors do show their own opnions in their work but that is not the problem, its the fear that just like Bridget past was changed to "reflect the world we curent live on" (to quote the Drinker, not that I agree with him in all things) that Japan starts to adopt the same ill practices of the ESG checkbox quotas because foreign markets, they did that a few times before (appealing to the West) with anime and games and it never worked, heck DOA6 was self-censored and it crashed and burned the whole series just like Skullgirls is currently doing ... shall I go on? How about the MCU that after Endgame just dropped and even if we can blame other factors beyond the representation checkbox it was certainly there too.

That is what is currently killing culture, Manga is currently safe because Japanese society is very conservative and the manga industry is not only much larger that Comics but also far more competitive, there is Disney keeping the lights up so hey can deconstruct Fist of the Northern Star, a lot of people that actually get in (and are a minority) end up dropping out so its not likely to happen, few mangakas have the power to dictate their own terms (Rumiko Takahashi is one of the few, you have to be at that level) and its too competitive to even think about it but lets not get any illusions, they would go full in wokism if it got then money because that is what matters, they dont care about representation outside using it to play the ESG checkbox game.

And dont take this as thinking I bat for the other side because all are deplorable, the other side of representation in comics was the CCA the only thing that matters is money, not morals and if people have to see it happening in their side of the aisle to understand that then so be it, I am not selfdeluded like some to think the Bud Light boycott is anything but people having a excuse to finally stop drinking that pisswater and feel good about it.

Plus I dont want to deal with wierdos like the people that go Yamato is trans, there is a reason why I gone over the My Truth and what it is, if you have people that cannot handle their headcanon being smashed by Word of God (Author) and try to use political correctness in a attempt to shift reality to fit their own misperception as part of the community then all you have is a bunch of bullies that cannot handle being proven wrong and double down, they destroy communities because they have (how Tumblr crowd killed comics due to the existing cronyism, I am not going to say it wasnt there before) and they will.

 

[ZenMasters]

You sarcastically remarked the diversity choices in the Witcher Netflix series are "totally not political" without elaborating why you think so, and you just prompted someone to agree with you things are being indeed "forced down our throats".
These are not shared, self-evident beliefs, there's no "silent majority" or whatever. You're gonna have to spell out your own theories, whatever they are.

I don't know what's going on in your brain, but if I need to spell it out that deliberately changing characters' races and sexual orientation from the original works just to fit an agenda is a political move, then I don't know what to say to you.

I have read all the books. They're literally sitting on my bookshelves. I have clocked in hundreds of hours on The Witcher 1, 2, and 3 on Steam. And they dare spit to me that Eredin is gay??? The King of The Wild Hunt??? Dude's literally traverse worlds and turned everything in his path to shaved ice to try to impregnate a woman, holy shit. And don't let me get into their casting choice for the Lodge's.

One question; why? You explain to me why couldn't they do a faithful adaptation. You explain to me why they need to change straight characters into gay. You explain to me why they need to change the characters' races. You explain to me if they wanted diversity, why couldn't they just made a new IP. Explain that to me.

The Netflix adaptation was a ball of acid thrown on the face of the series' fans. No wonder Cavill left.

And "The Witcher" is just one case amongst many, mind you. Yet you dare to say that no "modern values" are being "forced down our throats"? Are you really that daft?

 

[quicksilvir]

So I want to ask, what is considered transphobic in the forum?

I could see calling them a slur and wishing death on them as transphobic, but is it transphobic for not using their pronouns and refer their gender(man/woman) based on their sex(male/female)? The majority of cultures and beliefs of the world refer to others based on their sex.

After all, I'm not Islamaphobe if I don't worship their god, or a non-muslim woman is Islamaphobe if they don't cover their skin when meeting a male Muslim. So why are others immediately silenced and branded as transphobes when they merely lived by their own culture/belief and did not adopt yours? Could you really blame them for thinking all of this as forcing the transgender culture down their throat?

Keep in mind that a lot of isms and phobias are expressed in "plausibly deniable ways". A history forum had to ban people asking questions about the doors used in Nazi gas chambers because the people weren't actually interested in learning about door design. They wanted to imply that "obviously the Jewish victims could have just walked out so there's no way so many people could have been killed by the Holocaust so that's why the Holocaust is fake".

Likewise: bringing up "facts" about death rates or crime rates or whatnot is an easy way to imply things while having an easy fallback to the "truth". Imagine you were battling for custody of your children and the opposition started bringing up about how your gender has higher child abuse rates. Would you really feel like they were just asking questions or stating their beliefs?

So, when people make accusations about transphobia it is usually because they have experienced people "just asking questions" and "just stating the facts" as justification to strip away their rights and attempt to exterminate them from the world.

As for your Islamophobia example you are correct that those actions would not be Islamophobia, but what if you walked up to a Muslim man and starting gorging down pork in front of him and taking off the hijabs of the Muslim women around him. That would be the equivalent.

 

[YurushiteHyacinth]

Words

You are once again treating your own belief as self-evident. You have yet to explain to me why you think increasing diversity in media is a bad, undesirable or unwanted change, treating your own negative take as common sense, and basically saying I'm too stupid to see it.
What happens when more gay or non-white characters appear in fiction? Why is that a bad trend? You assume it's factually bad, but why?

 

[omae_Is_You]

If you said that thinking any religion but Christianity makes you mentally ill to a Muslim, that would make you Islamophobic. If you call a Muslim creepy for praying 5 times a day that would also be Islamophobic. It’s not that hard to not be an asshole. If you don’t like trans people then just don’t say anything and ignore them I guess

Pretty hard to ignore them when they throw a tantrum when you use the correct pronouns.

 

[ZenMasters]

You are once again treating your own belief as self-evident. You have yet to explain to me why you think increasing diversity in media is a bad, undesirable or unwanted change, treating your own negative take as common sense, and basically saying I'm too stupid to see it.
What happens when more gay or trans characters appear in fiction? Why is that a bad trend? You assume it's factually bad, but why?

Don't start putting words into my mouth. When did I ever said that "increasing diversity in media is bad, undesirable or unwanted change?".

Literally no one would care if "more gay or trans characters appear in fiction" because people who're not interested in it would just not touch the media, as evident in recent trend. But, people would and have the right to be upset when they changed beloved established, existing franchise/series for NO reason. Why is that? What's the motivation behind such move?

I'll explain it in a way that even a simpleton would understand. A restaurant has established a customer base for decades. People love the menu and taste of the food there. But then, suddenly new owner came and changed everything on the menu, like swapping salt for sugar, for no reason at all, when the business is going well. Can you blame the customers if they're upset? Can you blame them if they stopped visiting? Can you blame them for leaving a bad review?

 

[Kanami-chan]

amazing manga

 

[omae_Is_You]

So, when people make accusations about transphobia it is usually because they have experienced people "just asking questions" and "just stating the facts" as justification to strip away their rights and attempt to exterminate them from the world.

But that's the thing though, how does someone use he when referring to a male transgender is enough to strip the transgender of their rights or exterminate them?

 

[Remocracy]

Pretty much what happens every time even just a genderbent character comes up in a story. Doesn't even have to be provoked by trans folks claiming the character as one of their own, fellas just roll in unprompted with their Opinions(tm).

Lol all I did was make a “Is it gay to fuck a pre-op trans man” joke and damn the transphobes came rolling in

 

[YurushiteHyacinth]

Don't start putting words into my mouth. When did I ever said that "increasing diversity in media is bad, undesirable or unwanted change?".

Literally no one would care if "more gay or trans characters appear in fiction" because people who're not interested in it would just not touch the media, as evident in recent trend. But, people would and have the right to be upset when they changed beloved established, existing franchise/series for NO reason. Why is that? What's the motivation behind such move?

I'll explain it in a way that even a simpleton would understand. A restaurant has established a customer base for decades. People love the menu and taste of the food there. But then, suddenly new owner came and changed everything on the menu, like swapping salt for sugar, for no reason at all, when the business is going well. Can you blame the customers if they're upset? Can you blame them if they stopped visiting? Can you blame them for leaving a bad review?

That metaphor makes no sense because you're basically describing a business deliberately sabotaging their own work.
Series that stick around long enough will sometimes change as society does and commonly held beliefs shift. A character called Chop-Chop from Chuck Cuidera's Blackhawk used to be a cartoonish Asian stereotype in the '40s, but he was gradually altered into something more respectable. And series like Transformers have been adding more and more female characters where there used to be close to none or were relegated to minor roles, or they got updated designs to be less stereotypically girly. And we got a LOT of people thinking those changes were disrespectful to the source material or "political correctness gone wild" back when they happened.
The Witcher has been around long enough to get two sequels and now even a Netflix adaptation among other things, and is now also changing with the times. Is that also a bad thing?

 

[YurushiteHyacinth]

But that's the thing though, how does someone use he when referring to a male transgender is enough to strip the transgender of their rights or exterminate them?

Because it's a basic zero-effort "I see you, you're valid" gesture and transphobes won't even have the courtesy for that, going on to insist being "forced" to use correct pronouns is abusive and oppressive, like they're being made to accept a "lie". It's not a cause-and-effect, it's what it communicates.

 

[altmaria]

Spoken like a true tourist.

Taking into account mangadex forum rules, specifically rule 1, I guess you consider the admins and mods all tourists as well, huh?

 

[quicksilvir]

But that's the thing though, how does someone use he when referring to a male transgender is enough to strip the transgender of their rights or exterminate them?

Well, step one is to delegitimize them. By not calling a trans person what they ask to be called it is disrespecting them and treating it as if the things they are feeling are not legitimate. (Note we have no trouble referring to Snoop Dogg as his stage name, consider how you might view someone if they insisted on calling him his birth name against his will).

Step two usually involves taking that and making it an us vs them. It involves making their demand to be referred differently into an attack. Telling other people that listening to that request is wrong and harmful and that trans people are wrong and harmful for making that demand.

Step 3 is to start making laws and attacks. "How dare they demand this of us" "What if they want to be attack helicopters" "We should make laws to protect ourselves from their craziness" Note that 561 bills targeting trans people have been introduced in 2023 alone.

Step 1 isn't enough to strip rights, but the people who push for step 2 and 3 are relying on the people in step 1 to garner support. It's like how poor farmers may not have owned slaves, but they sure didn't treat them kindly or do anything to stop the slaveowners from abusing them. The Nazi's relied on German citizens being willing to blame the Jewish citizens to enact their awful works.

You may be thinking that you are being forced to change your default, but doing so is not a bad thing. Consider that the N word and many other slurs used to be used in casual speech towards minorities and people of other countries.

 

[ZenMasters]

That metaphor makes no sense because you're basically describing a business deliberately sabotaging their own work.
Series that stick around long enough will sometimes change as society does and commonly held beliefs shift. A character called Chop-Chop from Chuck Cuidera's Blackhawk used to be a cartoonish Asian stereotype in the '40s, but he was gradually altered into something more respectable. And series like Transformers have been adding more and more female characters where there used to be close to none or were relegated to minor roles, or they got updated designs to be less stereotypically girly. And we got a LOT of people thinking those changes were disrespectful to the source material or "political correctness gone wild" back when they happened.
The Witcher has been around long enough to get two sequels and now even a Netflix adaptation among other things, and is now also changing with the times. Is that also a bad thing?

"That metaphor makes no sense because you're basically describing a business deliberately sabotaging their own work."

Oh, but it makes perfect sense because it is exactly what it is. How's Netflix's The Witcher adaptation doing? Crashed and burned, isn't it? What about the other series that walks the same path? Velma's Scooby Doo? He Man? Man in Black? Terminator? Ghost Busters? The Little Mermaid? Indiana Jones? Etc. All met the same fate. Every. single. one. Hmm, I wonder what do they all have in common?

Changing just for the sake of "change" is nothing but hubris.

 

[MidnighTea]

I guess it got modded eventually but damn I forgot the amount of alt-right/conservative manga readers

It's easy to forget, yeah, because it really doesn't make sense on the surface of it. I mean, by nature, non-Japanese people reading manga are opening their hearts and minds to another culture. Not to be disrespectful to them, but that's usually not something they're known for.
I'm guessing their mental image of Japan is a rigid and stereotypical one. A conservative paradise where men are men, women are women and children obey their parents. And "the woke" had never reached their shores.

It's... usually a pretty severe wake-up call when I explain things like how they have their own word for nonbinary. ("X-Gender", which is badass) Or indeed just how crazy bisexual samurai were. Or even classic okama culture, for all of its issues. And so on and so on. Heck a lot of us in the LGBT community first became of ourselves thanks to super gay anime of the 90's.

(It's why Devil-kun shouldn't give up just because his first doujin flopped! He'll find his audience if he keeps at it!)

 

[Remocracy]

I'm guessing their mental image of Japan is a rigid and stereotypical one. A conservative paradise where men are men, women are women and children obey their parents. And "the woke" had never reached their shores.

That is a shockingly common attitude, it’s why there are so many conservatives that watch anime (see K-On fans being Nazis)

 

[Richman]

Alright people. This comment thread is not meant to talk about trans topics, I don't even know how you got there. I strongly suggest you stop the arguments.

 

[Bullfrog]

Thanks to the transphobes who just said their bigot shit and ate bans, not like the transphobes in here still writing essays and just asking questions like we all dont know