FFF-Class Trashero
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Contributor
- Joined
- Jan 18, 2018
- Messages
- 3,634
...I'm gathering from the comments that the protagonist does not especially undergo any sort of character development or anything like that so far and that the whole thing is a shit-show played for laughs from beginning to end. Am I gathering this correctly?
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2019
- Messages
- 139
@Pokari It would depend on what you mean by character development.
Most of the story so far is focused on explaining the background and the main character trying to use what he knows to achieve his goals. There has been little if any change to his character but the possibility remains as new events not previously explored take place.
Yeah mostly it's gag shit right now.
Most of the story so far is focused on explaining the background and the main character trying to use what he knows to achieve his goals. There has been little if any change to his character but the possibility remains as new events not previously explored take place.
Yeah mostly it's gag shit right now.
There is no "character development "because he won't follow the system. He gets increasingly frustrated each run and get more ectreme. The system doesn't change and forces him to be the chuvanistic harem MC, so he continues going around the the plot in different ways to achieve his goals better with his added knowledge. Personally, I think controlling from the shadows is a brilliant move as well as killing the princess from another country instead of helping her become the Queen when you know she's not going to be a good ruler.
People who continue to hate him are like Sieg and the system.
I really like the extremes because I always feel annoyed by goody two shoes MC. Even with the evil isekai's MC that turn nice and have a harem.
I'll drop this one his harem gets established, but from what I read it isn't much of a harem where he likes everyone (oh no I can't decide what my heart wants so I'm going to string along all the girls so nobody would get hurt) but more of a "You're useful and I'm just done with everything" harem.
Violent tsunderes- would love to see their demise
Harems that are used to forward the plot- don't need em
Even the elves are overrated for me bc I've read so many isekai.
People who continue to hate him are like Sieg and the system.
I really like the extremes because I always feel annoyed by goody two shoes MC. Even with the evil isekai's MC that turn nice and have a harem.
I'll drop this one his harem gets established, but from what I read it isn't much of a harem where he likes everyone (oh no I can't decide what my heart wants so I'm going to string along all the girls so nobody would get hurt) but more of a "You're useful and I'm just done with everything" harem.
Violent tsunderes- would love to see their demise
Harems that are used to forward the plot- don't need em
Even the elves are overrated for me bc I've read so many isekai.
Member
- Joined
- Sep 9, 2018
- Messages
- 843
The whole system wants a cookie-cutter isekai... But mc is just as fed up with that as we readers are. So he does things rationally and makes use of his experiences and skills. He prioritizes results over acting heroic, and his conflict with the system means he grows exceedingly unsympathetic to others, becoming less hero-like. Because he's already gone the standard route, he's already suffered a decade of doing things the hard way. He doesnt want yo waste time doing things he already knows are pointless or that will make his job as hero unnecessarily difficult.
The system forces mc to retest like it's math. As if dumping this frustrated person who is now more frustrated bc he lost the levels and skills he spent ten years acquiring in an instant just to get stuck back at the starting line because he wasn't acting like a naively cheerful idiot.
It's inevitable that he's going to strive towards efficiency. That he's going to cut out people who only cause him misery. That successive resets, with more stringent rules, are going to drive him jnto a corner and make him figure out new ways to fight the system.
If the system actually wanted the mc to become more of a good oerson, instead of driving him towards apathy and psychoses, it would change tack entirely. Give him a reset without stripping his powers. Stop trying to force him into relations with a handful of people with serious problems that will literally never be able to get along with him, especially after they keep adding to his grudges.
Theres been a little bit of character development, but its subtle. That entire second isekai for him was basically a prequel, so dont expect much out of it. Third run makes perfect sense so far - mc is being quite reasonable and rational under the circumstances.
His main flaw is a lack of compassion, which stems from traumas caused by the first round of isekai, made worse by the reset. You cant expect a normal kid to just suffer through everything, and be responsible for everything, on his own. You cant give him the shittiest psychotic partners as party members and expect an average person to somehow endure it with truly heroic levels of patience and blind compassion.
You give him a sword and an exp buff, sure he can grind and get strong enough to fill the role of a hero killing the demon king.
But you put him through all this shit without any help, all that mental and emotional trauma, and then punish him for what it did to his innocence?
The system here is flawed, and unreasonably so. It's a good thing our mc is rebelling against the tropes and idiocy the system wants from him. That would all be a waste of time, repeating something he did for ten tears. And it also shows how a REAL hero wont back down against pressure frkm above, or peer pressure. A real hero doesnt give up to act like a naive idiot. A real hero finds a way, no matter what, to stand on his own two feet every time the system knocks him on his ass.
This story has hardly started and our mc has already proven himself. Starting from lv 1, he goes and suffers through it all again, without repeating his previous mistakes. He tries new ways to solve problems. The system wants to complain about his methods anyway, ignoring the nearly perfect results in terms of efficiency. So he has to do it again... And instead kf giving up to become a sheep, or becoming totally evil by lashing out at thus world for all his suffering, he compromises. He keeps seeking out new ways to resolve the world's problems, and he does so with fewer "crimes" on his hands. Hell, by becoming the leader of the evil cult he had problems with in round 1, which he outright executed in round 2, by round 3 theyve become a tool for him to do the hero work behind the scenes, cleaning up the corrupt and so on.
The system forces mc to retest like it's math. As if dumping this frustrated person who is now more frustrated bc he lost the levels and skills he spent ten years acquiring in an instant just to get stuck back at the starting line because he wasn't acting like a naively cheerful idiot.
It's inevitable that he's going to strive towards efficiency. That he's going to cut out people who only cause him misery. That successive resets, with more stringent rules, are going to drive him jnto a corner and make him figure out new ways to fight the system.
If the system actually wanted the mc to become more of a good oerson, instead of driving him towards apathy and psychoses, it would change tack entirely. Give him a reset without stripping his powers. Stop trying to force him into relations with a handful of people with serious problems that will literally never be able to get along with him, especially after they keep adding to his grudges.
Theres been a little bit of character development, but its subtle. That entire second isekai for him was basically a prequel, so dont expect much out of it. Third run makes perfect sense so far - mc is being quite reasonable and rational under the circumstances.
His main flaw is a lack of compassion, which stems from traumas caused by the first round of isekai, made worse by the reset. You cant expect a normal kid to just suffer through everything, and be responsible for everything, on his own. You cant give him the shittiest psychotic partners as party members and expect an average person to somehow endure it with truly heroic levels of patience and blind compassion.
You give him a sword and an exp buff, sure he can grind and get strong enough to fill the role of a hero killing the demon king.
But you put him through all this shit without any help, all that mental and emotional trauma, and then punish him for what it did to his innocence?
The system here is flawed, and unreasonably so. It's a good thing our mc is rebelling against the tropes and idiocy the system wants from him. That would all be a waste of time, repeating something he did for ten tears. And it also shows how a REAL hero wont back down against pressure frkm above, or peer pressure. A real hero doesnt give up to act like a naive idiot. A real hero finds a way, no matter what, to stand on his own two feet every time the system knocks him on his ass.
This story has hardly started and our mc has already proven himself. Starting from lv 1, he goes and suffers through it all again, without repeating his previous mistakes. He tries new ways to solve problems. The system wants to complain about his methods anyway, ignoring the nearly perfect results in terms of efficiency. So he has to do it again... And instead kf giving up to become a sheep, or becoming totally evil by lashing out at thus world for all his suffering, he compromises. He keeps seeking out new ways to resolve the world's problems, and he does so with fewer "crimes" on his hands. Hell, by becoming the leader of the evil cult he had problems with in round 1, which he outright executed in round 2, by round 3 theyve become a tool for him to do the hero work behind the scenes, cleaning up the corrupt and so on.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2018
- Messages
- 117
@lolikoki
@Yinying
Yinying, hes is not getting any harem anytime, he even slaves someone from the isekai world and uses them like total gophers; as someone said this a really amusing gag shit festival. And he will worsen even more as time passes, and things will get even funnier 😆
He becomes even worse each time, until he wisen up and does a successful run, returns to Earth and learns of the true enemy the isekai world is training him to face, messes up big time and gets sent back to Fantasy in another inusual isekai way, thats the last translated chapter, 90.
@Yinying
Yinying, hes is not getting any harem anytime, he even slaves someone from the isekai world and uses them like total gophers; as someone said this a really amusing gag shit festival. And he will worsen even more as time passes, and things will get even funnier 😆
Double-page supporter
- Joined
- Jan 13, 2019
- Messages
- 139
@Hobnobs
Well I sure wish I had seen the part of his post that indicated that so I didn't waste his time.
@Danimal696
Now THAT sounds like character progression.
Well I sure wish I had seen the part of his post that indicated that so I didn't waste his time.
@Danimal696
Now THAT sounds like character progression.
This is a great discussion going on so far, and I wanted to throw my two cents in regarding the main character and his character development. note: spoilers up to the current reaper chapter (47).
The main issues I'm taking with the testing administrators and the 'hero creation system' as a whole are twofold. First, the evidence that is available, and from the MC's own point of view, is that he isn't in a real world, so to speak. He's in a kind of scenario, a simulation which is simply being replayed over and over and over endlessly by many people simultaneously. So, from the MC's point of view, its effectively consequence free, because unlike his 'ideal hero' companion in round 3 he is intelligent and is on his third run through, so he sees these people as simply not being real. It's like playing a Fallout or Elder Scrolls style murderhobo, or choosing all renegade dialogue options in Mass Effect, there are no real consequences for his decisions.
True, he didn't know about the parallel fantasy worlds on the first round, but then he already had signs of developing a borderline personality disorder being driven by ptsd at that point. We see inside his head during the third run when he meets the Saintess how he still saw the game as a matter of life and death the first time around, even when the point of the Saintess was to soften the blow. The look on his face during the flashbacks, like when we see the death of the first Lanuvel, or the flashbacks explaining the role of the Saintess, he was experiencing some pretty severe mental trauma by that point. The minute they woke him up in the second round in the exact same world and the exact same scenario at the exact same start point...
Well, I think by the reset at the start of this series, ie the start of the second round, he was already on the cusp of full psychopathy, and rage-inducing PTSD. That's why he flipped out and killed his companions the first time through. We even see it in his skills, how he has the 'berserk' skill even when he seems to be keeping his cool during fights; the MC even says his 'mind' remains the same even if his skills were reset. Look at how he treats Lanuvel on the second and third runs. He described her as someone that made his heart flutter, she's obviously a nice person and, most notably, the one companion from the previous runs the MC DOESN'T actively try to kill.
I have a theory: that the game fucked up on his first round, and Lanuvel died far too early. Her role in the 'hero' simulation is supposed to be a counterweight to the stress that the MC is put under by his companions, and that without her, the stress of being in a life or death situation broke the MC. Bury it under the 'flush toilet' jokes and the like all you want, but I think the MC suffered some real trauma there that's only being hinted at, and once he reached the apex of strength the first round he snapped, killed the party, and then killed the demon king. And then it was all reset and the special instructor let enough information slip to make the MC realize that this was all fake, completely delegitimizing the trauma he had gone through when Lanuvel died the first time, and the several years of suffering that followed.
And that's my second issue with the testing staff: they gloss over this potential problem entirely, which is strange given how the Special Instructor seems capable of sifting through past results of heroes to examine their actions and such. Think about it; if they had the ability to dig through data like they claim, they should be able to see a divergence between the MC and other hero candidates by Lanuvel's early death in the first round causing the MC to mentally break down into borderline personality disorder and PTSD, thus his current and recurring 'F' score in personality. It's the systems own fault for breaking someone who was a kid at that point and now mentally is what, 22? 23?
Note this isn't me hating on the series. I love it BECAUSE of this theme, this question about wtf is wrong with the MC. And its also why I totally empathize with the people who hate the MC; the MC does behave like a psychopath, he does things that are utterly grotesque, you're not supposed to like him, and it is very hard to feel sorry for him. Believe me, I GET IT. I don't like the MC that much either because he's a psychopath. What I love is the story, because I realize that what we're seeing is a high functioning psychopath being put through the world that gave him PTSD repeatedly, and a 'faculty' of testers, instructors, and graders who are unable to grasp the damage this kid suffered, and why he continues to confound their testing curriculum.
If this was the kid from before the first run, he wouldn't have had any problem acing the test. What makes his story special, why he's so different from all the other heroes that the system has produced, the diverging point about him is he suffered seeing Lanuvel's death early, the system was not designed to help the hero cope without Lanuvel, and because he grew up mentally carrying that trauma he is now incapable of understanding what the 'faculty' even WANT from him. The people aren't real, the 'good' decisions all turned to shit and caused civil wars and genocides if they were real, and they have driven the MC insane at this point, in a way that the faculty has no means or experience to draw upon as a response.
EDIT: Regarding the inevitable counterpoint of some of his internal narration, here's how I'll respond: what narration of the past we see happens AFTER his breaking point, and is a flashback through an unreliable (ie, insane) narrator rather than a live view of his state of mind at that moment, for example the death of Lanuvel what we see of the physical part of the flashback is the MC in clear anguish, and its not until the internal monologue about the event occurs that we see the 'jackass MC' emerge, the MC we know now. Essentially, my assertion is that he views some parts of his first adventure like the death of Lanuvel differently now than he actually did then because his brain is trying to simultaneously cope with the trauma he suffered on top of it being revealed that the 10 years of suffering did not matter, which colors his perception of the first run entirely. I'm going to stick with this point because as much as he yells at Lanuvel, he keeps coming up with more and more convoluted mental reasons to not do her any physical harm, and in fact often keeps her out of harms way subconsciously.
EDIT 2: borderline personality disorder, not dissociative personality disorder. derp.
True, he didn't know about the parallel fantasy worlds on the first round, but then he already had signs of developing a borderline personality disorder being driven by ptsd at that point. We see inside his head during the third run when he meets the Saintess how he still saw the game as a matter of life and death the first time around, even when the point of the Saintess was to soften the blow. The look on his face during the flashbacks, like when we see the death of the first Lanuvel, or the flashbacks explaining the role of the Saintess, he was experiencing some pretty severe mental trauma by that point. The minute they woke him up in the second round in the exact same world and the exact same scenario at the exact same start point...
Well, I think by the reset at the start of this series, ie the start of the second round, he was already on the cusp of full psychopathy, and rage-inducing PTSD. That's why he flipped out and killed his companions the first time through. We even see it in his skills, how he has the 'berserk' skill even when he seems to be keeping his cool during fights; the MC even says his 'mind' remains the same even if his skills were reset. Look at how he treats Lanuvel on the second and third runs. He described her as someone that made his heart flutter, she's obviously a nice person and, most notably, the one companion from the previous runs the MC DOESN'T actively try to kill.
I have a theory: that the game fucked up on his first round, and Lanuvel died far too early. Her role in the 'hero' simulation is supposed to be a counterweight to the stress that the MC is put under by his companions, and that without her, the stress of being in a life or death situation broke the MC. Bury it under the 'flush toilet' jokes and the like all you want, but I think the MC suffered some real trauma there that's only being hinted at, and once he reached the apex of strength the first round he snapped, killed the party, and then killed the demon king. And then it was all reset and the special instructor let enough information slip to make the MC realize that this was all fake, completely delegitimizing the trauma he had gone through when Lanuvel died the first time, and the several years of suffering that followed.
And that's my second issue with the testing staff: they gloss over this potential problem entirely, which is strange given how the Special Instructor seems capable of sifting through past results of heroes to examine their actions and such. Think about it; if they had the ability to dig through data like they claim, they should be able to see a divergence between the MC and other hero candidates by Lanuvel's early death in the first round causing the MC to mentally break down into borderline personality disorder and PTSD, thus his current and recurring 'F' score in personality. It's the systems own fault for breaking someone who was a kid at that point and now mentally is what, 22? 23?
Note this isn't me hating on the series. I love it BECAUSE of this theme, this question about wtf is wrong with the MC. And its also why I totally empathize with the people who hate the MC; the MC does behave like a psychopath, he does things that are utterly grotesque, you're not supposed to like him, and it is very hard to feel sorry for him. Believe me, I GET IT. I don't like the MC that much either because he's a psychopath. What I love is the story, because I realize that what we're seeing is a high functioning psychopath being put through the world that gave him PTSD repeatedly, and a 'faculty' of testers, instructors, and graders who are unable to grasp the damage this kid suffered, and why he continues to confound their testing curriculum.
If this was the kid from before the first run, he wouldn't have had any problem acing the test. What makes his story special, why he's so different from all the other heroes that the system has produced, the diverging point about him is he suffered seeing Lanuvel's death early, the system was not designed to help the hero cope without Lanuvel, and because he grew up mentally carrying that trauma he is now incapable of understanding what the 'faculty' even WANT from him. The people aren't real, the 'good' decisions all turned to shit and caused civil wars and genocides if they were real, and they have driven the MC insane at this point, in a way that the faculty has no means or experience to draw upon as a response.
EDIT: Regarding the inevitable counterpoint of some of his internal narration, here's how I'll respond: what narration of the past we see happens AFTER his breaking point, and is a flashback through an unreliable (ie, insane) narrator rather than a live view of his state of mind at that moment, for example the death of Lanuvel what we see of the physical part of the flashback is the MC in clear anguish, and its not until the internal monologue about the event occurs that we see the 'jackass MC' emerge, the MC we know now. Essentially, my assertion is that he views some parts of his first adventure like the death of Lanuvel differently now than he actually did then because his brain is trying to simultaneously cope with the trauma he suffered on top of it being revealed that the 10 years of suffering did not matter, which colors his perception of the first run entirely. I'm going to stick with this point because as much as he yells at Lanuvel, he keeps coming up with more and more convoluted mental reasons to not do her any physical harm, and in fact often keeps her out of harms way subconsciously.
EDIT 2: borderline personality disorder, not dissociative personality disorder. derp.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2019
- Messages
- 34
Ahhahha, this is really refreshing for me since I got bored with the general manga. I find this crazy and uncomfortable at first but started to enjoy it after somewhat sympathizing with the MC and read this for the lol.
Maybe this short story can help you sympathize with the MC
Maybe this short story can help you sympathize with the MC
Imagine something like Skyrim? You found out you're a legendary dragonborn and went to the king, but he started to preach about humanity and that you're humanity's hope. He gave you cheap sword and a measly gold while saying that he will fully support you. He gave you quest to kill all those evil dragons. But somehow you ended up being everyone's errand boy since ypu needed money. You ended with a pretty companion (NOT!) to help your adventure. But all she do is blocking the door, alerting enemy, activating traps, etc. Meanwhile with a proper support and grind, you could have killed a dragon or two. At the end of the day, you know what happened to everyone.
Just having to repeat, after all your hard work is a shit. Imagine having to redo those shitty mmorpg quest.
- Joined
- Oct 31, 2019
- Messages
- 195
- Joined
- Jun 11, 2020
- Messages
- 1
Not an antihero more of a psycho with no saving grace
Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2018
- Messages
- 72
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2019
- Messages
- 19
@MemeBear @sonicboom750
This series is on break since chapter 52 is the final chapter for season 1. The second season is going to begin on September 23rd.
This series is on break since chapter 52 is the final chapter for season 1. The second season is going to begin on September 23rd.
Member
- Joined
- May 5, 2018
- Messages
- 72
@dasaikuru
Doesn't explain why we're behind 5 chapters here though.
*EDIT* Seems Reaper Scans just stopped uploading here.
Doesn't explain why we're behind 5 chapters here though.
*EDIT* Seems Reaper Scans just stopped uploading here.
- Joined
- Aug 29, 2019
- Messages
- 19
@sonicboom750 I wasn't sure if posting links was allowed here, and telling you to check out their website rather instead of sending the link directly didn't occur to me at the time.
