GATE - Jieitai Kanochi nite, Kaku Tatakaeri - Ch. 97
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jun 17, 2018
- Messages
- 3,319
Contributor
- Joined
- Feb 4, 2019
- Messages
- 7,346
@jrandom42 Nah, it's the same team that was camping in the Red Light District base for a few chapters before they were sent in with Itami's team to rescue Pina and the Emperor. Part of them held the gate and C4'd the cavalry unit chasing after Itami's Humvee during the escape, while the other half rode inside for fire-support and claymore-ing the survivors of the cavalry. The squad leader was even hitting on the Harpy leader of the prostitutes.
@HYBRID_BEING Yeah, the whole Tyuule thing is just plot armor/bad writing.
@HYBRID_BEING Yeah, the whole Tyuule thing is just plot armor/bad writing.
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Sep 6, 2018
- Messages
- 639
@Rosen_Ritter that's a joke i never know i needed =)))
Fed-Kun's army
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2019
- Messages
- 785
Oh shit, they're sending in the special forces.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2019
- Messages
- 136
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2019
- Messages
- 136
@ninjadork
When was the last time you saw line units directly involved in a snatch operation? How much logistics do you think your hypothetical artillery and close air support is going to require? Remember, the supply line is thin, a single double-lane road thin, and it has to keep a combined-arms brigade-sized unit, along with their base, supplied.
Compared to what? Do you really want to get bogged down in the nitty-gritty of a military operation? Multiple books and movies can be written on that subject alone. The story is already finished in the LN. This is just adapting the work to a graphical novel format.
When was the last time you saw line units directly involved in a snatch operation? How much logistics do you think your hypothetical artillery and close air support is going to require? Remember, the supply line is thin, a single double-lane road thin, and it has to keep a combined-arms brigade-sized unit, along with their base, supplied.
Compared to what? Do you really want to get bogged down in the nitty-gritty of a military operation? Multiple books and movies can be written on that subject alone. The story is already finished in the LN. This is just adapting the work to a graphical novel format.
@SlurpNoodle
If you don't want to read about the details of an operation, that's your choice. If the author doesn't adequately explain / hint at those details, then that's their fault. But your / their refusal to take that information into account doesn't make that information irrelevant.
Modern Artillery: Has a range of dozens of kilometers before accuracy degrades to unacceptable levels. Hundreds if you're talking about missiles. It is absolutely feasible for them to have artillery support.
Close Air Support: Any modern plane or helicopter can be stationed dozens (helis) or hundreds (planes) of kilometers outside an operation site and still reach the target in a timely fashion. And even if for some contrived reason you can't use those, drones work too.
Second Wave / Ground assets: You're making a false assumption - these do not have to be line elements. There's nothing in the story or modern doctrine that says they can't have multiple spec-ops teams assigned. We've already seen demonstrations of this in prior scenes.
Question: why would they have any of these elements assigned to a covert snatch team? Answer: because this is not a typical snatch target - it is a hardened fortress with a large military garrison. The JSDF knows this, and knows that this makes it a good target for more conventional military strikes.
Supply Situation:
This base has been operational for months in a massively politically-charged and economically-profitable location; it is silly to assume it is not very well stocked for extended operations. In the alternate world, supply lines are greatly eased by the use of heavy cargo helis and planes as shown in previous chapters. Logistics is a concern, but P5 means it's not as big as you're making it out to be.
Close Air Support: Any modern plane or helicopter can be stationed dozens (helis) or hundreds (planes) of kilometers outside an operation site and still reach the target in a timely fashion. And even if for some contrived reason you can't use those, drones work too.
Second Wave / Ground assets: You're making a false assumption - these do not have to be line elements. There's nothing in the story or modern doctrine that says they can't have multiple spec-ops teams assigned. We've already seen demonstrations of this in prior scenes.
Question: why would they have any of these elements assigned to a covert snatch team? Answer: because this is not a typical snatch target - it is a hardened fortress with a large military garrison. The JSDF knows this, and knows that this makes it a good target for more conventional military strikes.
Supply Situation:
This base has been operational for months in a massively politically-charged and economically-profitable location; it is silly to assume it is not very well stocked for extended operations. In the alternate world, supply lines are greatly eased by the use of heavy cargo helis and planes as shown in previous chapters. Logistics is a concern, but P5 means it's not as big as you're making it out to be.
If you don't want to read about the details of an operation, that's your choice. If the author doesn't adequately explain / hint at those details, then that's their fault. But your / their refusal to take that information into account doesn't make that information irrelevant.
- Joined
- May 18, 2019
- Messages
- 6
Wait... a GATE chapter where the JGSDF SFGp doesn't just wear boonie hats, and actually use protective gear?
It's likely that the operators weren't just inserted without any support. Usually for hostage rescue operations carried out by SMUs, at least in the US, we'd have a Ranger/Infantry Batt. on standby as QRF, if things get dirty. The JGSDF likely has at least one airborne and/or infantry battalion on standby, and considering they're inserting into a heavily defended compound, they'd at least have air support and artillery ready to engage when needed.
Case in point: Operation Neptune Spear, the Op undertaken by DEVGRU to eliminate OBL. They had three Ranger companies on standby, just to assault a compound that's not heavily defended.
Going by the size of the compound (or in this case, fortress), they'd at least have artillery support on the line. Doesn't need to be those 155mm Type 75/99 self propelled howitzers, it can be those small towed M1 155mm howitzers, unloaded from CH-47s.
It's likely that the operators weren't just inserted without any support. Usually for hostage rescue operations carried out by SMUs, at least in the US, we'd have a Ranger/Infantry Batt. on standby as QRF, if things get dirty. The JGSDF likely has at least one airborne and/or infantry battalion on standby, and considering they're inserting into a heavily defended compound, they'd at least have air support and artillery ready to engage when needed.
Case in point: Operation Neptune Spear, the Op undertaken by DEVGRU to eliminate OBL. They had three Ranger companies on standby, just to assault a compound that's not heavily defended.
Going by the size of the compound (or in this case, fortress), they'd at least have artillery support on the line. Doesn't need to be those 155mm Type 75/99 self propelled howitzers, it can be those small towed M1 155mm howitzers, unloaded from CH-47s.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2019
- Messages
- 136
@ninjadork
If you haven't noticed, this isn't a story about the detailed dissection of "Operation such-and-such" Never has been. This isn't a story written specifically for your kink. It's your fault for thinking this story was written catering to you and your tastes, not the author's. You're not even in the target demographic.
Oh? You know how far away the operation takes place? Please share!
So, have you seen any special forces artillery units? special forces CAS units? Sounds like line units to me. You want to convince me they have backup special forces teams? Sounds good, doesn't stretch the believability.
Remember, the supply choke point is a single 2-lane road. Whatever the JSDF has, if they can't fit it down that 2-lane road, they won't have it available. Look at the security they have at either end, as well as the facilities. They went from a passive light recon stance to an active anti-insurgency campaign where they've been taking losses of personnel, equipment, and supplies. Have you done the math?
If you haven't noticed, this isn't a story about the detailed dissection of "Operation such-and-such" Never has been. This isn't a story written specifically for your kink. It's your fault for thinking this story was written catering to you and your tastes, not the author's. You're not even in the target demographic.
Oh? You know how far away the operation takes place? Please share!
[/quote]
So, have you seen any special forces artillery units? special forces CAS units? Sounds like line units to me. You want to convince me they have backup special forces teams? Sounds good, doesn't stretch the believability.
Remember, the supply choke point is a single 2-lane road. Whatever the JSDF has, if they can't fit it down that 2-lane road, they won't have it available. Look at the security they have at either end, as well as the facilities. They went from a passive light recon stance to an active anti-insurgency campaign where they've been taking losses of personnel, equipment, and supplies. Have you done the math?
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2019
- Messages
- 136
- Joined
- May 18, 2019
- Messages
- 6
@SlurpNoodle
Fair point, but the JSDF SOF was trained by US Army SF, and they have shown that the JGSDF can indeed bring artillery, like when they took down the fire dragon. They used the large tracked Type 99 155mm howitzers. The M1 field guns used by the JGSDF are small, lightweight, and can be towed by a Toyota Mega Cruiser, so why can't they bring those?
Fair point, but the JSDF SOF was trained by US Army SF, and they have shown that the JGSDF can indeed bring artillery, like when they took down the fire dragon. They used the large tracked Type 99 155mm howitzers. The M1 field guns used by the JGSDF are small, lightweight, and can be towed by a Toyota Mega Cruiser, so why can't they bring those?
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- May 3, 2018
- Messages
- 652
@Mihaly
Remember that in Fire Dragon subjugation, they have to haul those artillery pieces across the continent. And they only doing that after they got backing from King Duran to cross his territory. Here, we don't know how far is this from Alnus, or if they have to cross Empire's territory.
Sure they might able to just airlift towed artillery to support the SF on ground. But that still sounded adding more complexity, and having air support standing by nearby sounds far more feasible than deploying artillery.
Remember that in Fire Dragon subjugation, they have to haul those artillery pieces across the continent. And they only doing that after they got backing from King Duran to cross his territory. Here, we don't know how far is this from Alnus, or if they have to cross Empire's territory.
Sure they might able to just airlift towed artillery to support the SF on ground. But that still sounded adding more complexity, and having air support standing by nearby sounds far more feasible than deploying artillery.
They talk about fighting from the shadows and magic. Spies and insurgents/terrorists with magic would be very difficult to deal with unless the JSDF have a way of detecting mages.
Lelei used sleep magic right? Sleep magic alone can be very useful to those in the shadows.
Lelei used sleep magic right? Sleep magic alone can be very useful to those in the shadows.
- Joined
- Jun 8, 2019
- Messages
- 136
@Mihaly
Sure, the JSDF SF trains with US SF forces, but the key difference is the JSDF doesn't have the resources to adopt US battle doctrine. They can do a lot of things with the resources they have there, but they are also in the middle of an active counter-insuregency campaign tying up assets and eating away at whatever supply and munitions they managed to stockpile. The campaign with the dragon, was the only combat operation on the board at that time. They could throw the entire resources of Alnus base at it. They can't do that now, they're too busy fighting a guerilla war with prince Zorzal's forces across what looks like a very broad and soft front.
Remember all the muttering Lt. Yanagida does between pgs 9-12? That's him trying to assemble an operation, he's looking for enough resources to extract a single individual and he's finding that damn near everything is currently tied up in other operations. All he managed to scrape up is a photo recon flight from one of their RF-4's and a squad of HALO qualified SF troopies and a ride for them. The resources you have available to you dictates the operations you can run, not the entire catalog of your nation's resources.
Sure, the JSDF SF trains with US SF forces, but the key difference is the JSDF doesn't have the resources to adopt US battle doctrine. They can do a lot of things with the resources they have there, but they are also in the middle of an active counter-insuregency campaign tying up assets and eating away at whatever supply and munitions they managed to stockpile. The campaign with the dragon, was the only combat operation on the board at that time. They could throw the entire resources of Alnus base at it. They can't do that now, they're too busy fighting a guerilla war with prince Zorzal's forces across what looks like a very broad and soft front.
Remember all the muttering Lt. Yanagida does between pgs 9-12? That's him trying to assemble an operation, he's looking for enough resources to extract a single individual and he's finding that damn near everything is currently tied up in other operations. All he managed to scrape up is a photo recon flight from one of their RF-4's and a squad of HALO qualified SF troopies and a ride for them. The resources you have available to you dictates the operations you can run, not the entire catalog of your nation's resources.
Have you considered the time tables? How far away is Tanska from Alnus? How long can you tie up the artillery battery for? What about ammunition, supplies and fuel for the towing vehicles and their crews? How about a security force for the artillery battery? Could you even get there by ground with all those assets? How do you link up and coordinate? Can the operation wait until the slower moving ground assets get in place? Or will they need to be airlifted in? What if they get entangled in combat on the way there? A battery of artillery and their security force is not exactly stealthy. The Dragon operation was literally an expeditionary force. They even brought engineering vehicles to cross the rivers with. Just the logistics of their supplies and fuel must have been staggering. This operation is a rescue and exfiltration of a single civillian, not a shock and awe display. Sometimes, less is more.
Similar threads
