Handyman Saitou in Another World - Vol. 1 Ch. 9

[Tikibo]

@Caul Wrong, Jedi would use force push to block it or jump outside of range or whatever they do now. Also, lightsabers are not an advanced technology, G. Lukas was a weeb and wanted samurai-like warriors in his setting. Hence, welcome the Jedi who are magical samurai and nothing more. And you can be sure that damn bronze age warriors would do shit against a tank. That's the whole idea about advanced technology in warfare, it makes previous methods useless/less effective.

@Meridis since when do we forget that mages use protection magic to survive? It's really simple assumption, fighter has armour, rouge has dexterity, mage has spells to protect them. On the other hand, mage has his fireball, rouge his wits, and fighter a magic sword. So what you called a "designed mage" makes a perfect sense in any decent fantasy setting (which by definition removes all isekai). Unless we want to ask why the hell people don't advance by mixing technology and magic... that is real problem/flaw of most stories (unless we are talking about Arcanum).

I don't understand how Saitou will be useless. He knows spells by incantation and can teach it to others.

 

[welcome2atlantis]

Haha, nice assist, Saitou. The old man is suffering from dementia, so he really needs this.

 

[Meridis]

@Tikibo

the mixing is my point. The knight on the front line would reasonably take up forms of protection magic as any human sized shield probably wouldn't help later on. It doesn't make sense for these magics that augment specific traits so that a mage doesn't fall behind the physical classes, like defense magic, would only be used by one guy who does all the magic rather than the people who's value is in those specific traits. At the same time, the one guy who does all the magic starts to loose meaning by comparison. I don't think they would be able to exist as is for the really strong and dangerous opponents. I think it would be more reasonable for them to incorporate a rangers tactics of relying of light armor, mobility, and sniping/barrages rather than using robes and just standing at the back, slinging fireballs, then relying ONLY on defensive magic when attacked.

So, yeah, the traditional mage role, "designated mage" as I put, only exists because it's assumed magic wouldn't just mix into the other roles as they need it. For all the different magics they do, there is already someone else that's suppose to do that and, in a world of magic, they probably would mix learning those magics into their training. I admit that Caul example would still happen here and there but it wouldn't be necessary as the rangers would already be shooting fireballs, the thief would already be disarming magic traps, and the knights would already be casting defensive spells. Their abilities are just a mash of things other roles do being done with magic, magic the other roles would probably try to learn anyway.

 

[Tikibo]

@Meridis but you are assuming it's possible for non-wizard to learn magic. In most older fantasy settings it's just not possible. Magic studies takes years, upon years. I know that it's a common theme for manga based on MMORPG etc to give superpowers to everyone. If we are talking about such settings then sure. You are 100% right. Pure spell-casters don't make sense. But if you look at settings similar to Legends of Lodoss War (magic is specific to very limited group of people and demands a lot of devotion from them) then pure spellcasters make sense. They are only one who can do it. Fighter wants his strength enchanced? Ask wizard. Rogue wants magical wind protection from arrows? Again, ask wizard. If you add for it some reasoning why wizard can't wear armour (i.e. it limits his movements needed for spell casting) you have solid fantasy in which robed mages make sense.

Also, the way you described how mages should/could behave... it really reminds me of Slayers. Every damn wizard had some kind of armour, could fight at decent level AND cast some spells.

 

[Meridis]

@Tikibo

Good point. A lot of them have some limiting factor. Though, I don't think that makes much sense as far as the roles go. They're still just doing what the other roles do just with magic. Storywise, though, it wouldn't make sense if magic is suppose to be rare, difficult, or special yet the whole party has it.

I think what I described would probably be the case for a fantasy world that's suppose to have developed somewhat. Typically, skills that are restricted by talent become more freely available as knowledge of those skills and education in general improve. So I think a fantasy world would start out with the traditional setup and then move towards what I described as they develop public education and refined standards. If I got caught in an isekai for a traditional magic world, I would probably mark this as the goal or definition of magic development in that world, if it's understood well enough to make it's use more common.

...I kinda want to play something like this now.

 

[kuma]

handyman indeed...

 

[Vigo_to_Vigo]

@Meridis Aren't you assuming that magic can be learned by anyone? Like, its pointless to set up a school for teaching people to be double jointed; its not a learn-able skill. Sure you could teach already double jointed people to use the ability better, but you couldn't teach the actual ability.

A public school for Jedi and Sith would be pointless as the none force sensitive people would just sit there not being able to do anything.
Or a Psyker public school, everyone would be going insane, devolving into mutants, and accidentally calling deamons into the world, but only like 2% of the class would actually be causing it.

That's what I usually think of as the traditional fantasy setup; you either have magic from birth or you don't.

 

[elfalas]

I'd talk more about why mages would pick robes, because the thing some say about easy to move in definitely aint true for robes.
Few types of clothing or armor for that matter are as troublesome when it comes to movement when compared to robes.
(If you think otherwise I suggest you try wear a full robe and try move around, make various gestures and so on.)

Only guess would be the part about robes being pretty much a single piece covering the entire body and that detail might be somehow relevant for protective magic.

 

[Meridis]

@Vigo_to_Vigo

Yea, I actually am making that assumption. I just have a personal distaste for setups that define what someone can do by birth. I'm also assuming that that is the "talent" issue that I mentioned. That is, that a lack of understanding of how to teach it gives the appearance of an inborn ability, or lack there of, to do it. Most everything turned out that way and, with sufficient development n education, anything that isn't a physical trait can be taught. If it really is based on some "organ" or something you just have to be born with, it would forever put a cap on magic and make everything I said impossible.

Like I said, I hate the idea that someone would be barred from it just because they didn't hit the genetic lottery and will assume that it's possible to learn it until they specifically mention an actual "organ" that most people aren't born with. Fortunately, that's typically NOT the case in traditional fantasy rpgs. For example, only the Sorcerer in D&D needs to be born with their magic. Wizards and Warlocks study theirs.

as for psykers...their a bit of both sides and weird. It starts as a genetic mutation and becomes more and more common with the ultimate evolution of mankind supposing to be like the Emperor, powerful psykers. Then add the use of genetic manipulation and how all of the imperium's forces have been genetically modified and you get a case where they have developed to the point where they could make the species all mages, the whole species becoming mages is the natural course of their development, and the only thing holding them back is that they can't train everyone to be disciplined enough to use those powers safely all while skill being a case where you have to be born a mage.

 

[Vigo_to_Vigo]

@Meridis I can understand that viewpoint, but I do like me an overcoming the "naturally powered with my own gifts" type of story; being a Batman and Imperial Guard Soldier, fan and all. Like Ciaphas Cain, HERO OF THE IMPERIUM.

Also, I'm pretty sure if the Imperium really wanted to save themselves they'd breed everyone to be Blanks, that way they actively ignore, destroy, and ward off the warp entities and races heavy in psyonics; but I doubt that will ever happen. Not that it mattered, being better against Chaos, Orks, and Tyranids just means they'll be wiped out by Necrons eventually, probably.

 

[Meridis]

@Vigo_to_Vigo

There would probably also be a lot of problems from both the development of mankind and religious perspectives for making everyone "soulless". There's also the whole instinctively feeling hostile to them thing. Even if it was practical, trying would probably be labeled heresy.

 

[Ominous]

...Sorcerer's Apprentice. Nicolas Cage.

I think I've said enough.

 

[SSS26032002]

Just memorise sword techniques then with a little bit of training...

 

[kwendy]

This is why mages prancing around with their books.
Remember Thousand Master that could use more then thousand spells granted he had novice spell guide at hand?

 

[Darkion]

@kwendy i wanna know more about this

Remember Thousand Master that could use more then thousand spells granted he had novice spell guide at hand?

 

[kwendy]

@Darkion Mahou Sensei Negima. There was a flashback with mc's father who is reknown hero, who sucked at studying and casted all spells with the help of his textbook.

 

[Darkion]

@kwend ty but i dont want to read negima

 

[Velsy]

So the girls now showing her face ? When it said in the beginning she always hid it, even to friends ?
If its becoming romance. I want to see more of it between the fairy and MC.

 

[UnknownSaint111]

MC does seem kinda useless though... no power at all lol. Just uses his head a bit on a newb party?

 

[Glomoro]

MC does seem kinda useless though... no power at all lol. Just uses his head a bit on a newb party?

Useless my ass, he's a great fit for this party. Not every party member needs to engage in combat to be useful, he's fulfilling one of the primary roles of a rogue while also being able to make things like that bag for them and do basic field repairs of things. They might need two or three other people to cover all of that and also help in combat, which means splitting the rewards with even more people. Now toss in him covering for the weakness of the strongest person in their party, and he's even more valuable to them.