Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jul 28, 2018
- Messages
- 3,545
I feel like the manga could've ended around this arc,seems appropriate no?
Hatsukoi Zombie - Vol. 16 Ch. 153 - Dad's Message
- Thread starter MangaDex
- Start date
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Apr 20, 2018
- Messages
- 987
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2018
- Messages
- 209
I feel like Ibusuki has had more than enough chances to be with Tarou at this point.
Tarou tried to get her to be with her and she just rejected all his attempts.
I feel like she just needs to fucking stop at this point and just leave Tarou and Eve do whatever they want.
Edit: Also the dad is a cunt for not knowing the situation and truth and just trying to force something on them as an attempt to fix a non-existent problem.
Tarou tried to get her to be with her and she just rejected all his attempts.
I feel like she just needs to fucking stop at this point and just leave Tarou and Eve do whatever they want.
Edit: Also the dad is a cunt for not knowing the situation and truth and just trying to force something on them as an attempt to fix a non-existent problem.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Aug 18, 2018
- Messages
- 3,542
-_-
EDIT
For a short version read only the underlined parts.)
A romcom going in circles shouldn't be something new for anyone here, but even though this manga did this before, it never stayed there. When ever it was done, at some point something was added to the relationships or the knowledge about FLZs, like arcs should do (even if I wouldn't classify those as arcs). And then every circle was broken at some point and we moved on with the story and ended in another.
BUT The story did progress. Many other romcoms don't accomplish this in such a good way. Some of those characters grew (what makes it so painful to see them going in circles again, but this is due to them ignoring facts, denying reality and running from it, so it is also part of their character growth in the long run.)
Many of the core secrets of this story have come to light. Tarou and nearly everyone who matter know, that Ibusuki is a girl, the secret of seeing FLZs is also out. Some love interest is now out their to get a hold on Tarou's di...heart. Point is, the mangaka doesn't have that many turns left to go in circles. This here is the endgame. And it is a big one. Not such a bullshitty finale like in Nisekoi, in which it all came crashing down (way too many ships to sink). It circles into a conclusion and there is no way to escape. Even the editors can't change that. (They could, but it would break the story. 😁)
On the matter of the JS TarouXEbino: That ship never really sank, though it doesn't look like it will make it. That ship has run aground and is damaged, but Ebino tries her best to get it free and she made sure it wouldn't sink from the damage it took. In a race it wouldn't win, but, while both ahead, the JS TarouXEve is in trouble and the USS TarouXIbusuki isn't event trying to make it to the finish line. Ebino made everything right. She doesn't want to make the situation awkward, made sure to be still "available" and seemingly stands on the sideline by not becoming clingy and yet trying to be informed and not be out of the loop again (which lead to her being turned down).
EDIT
For a short version read only the underlined parts.)A romcom going in circles shouldn't be something new for anyone here, but even though this manga did this before, it never stayed there. When ever it was done, at some point something was added to the relationships or the knowledge about FLZs, like arcs should do (even if I wouldn't classify those as arcs). And then every circle was broken at some point and we moved on with the story and ended in another.
BUT The story did progress. Many other romcoms don't accomplish this in such a good way. Some of those characters grew (what makes it so painful to see them going in circles again, but this is due to them ignoring facts, denying reality and running from it, so it is also part of their character growth in the long run.)
Many of the core secrets of this story have come to light. Tarou and nearly everyone who matter know, that Ibusuki is a girl, the secret of seeing FLZs is also out. Some love interest is now out their to get a hold on Tarou's di...heart. Point is, the mangaka doesn't have that many turns left to go in circles. This here is the endgame. And it is a big one. Not such a bullshitty finale like in Nisekoi, in which it all came crashing down (way too many ships to sink). It circles into a conclusion and there is no way to escape. Even the editors can't change that. (They could, but it would break the story. 😁)
On the matter of the JS TarouXEbino: That ship never really sank, though it doesn't look like it will make it. That ship has run aground and is damaged, but Ebino tries her best to get it free and she made sure it wouldn't sink from the damage it took. In a race it wouldn't win, but, while both ahead, the JS TarouXEve is in trouble and the USS TarouXIbusuki isn't event trying to make it to the finish line. Ebino made everything right. She doesn't want to make the situation awkward, made sure to be still "available" and seemingly stands on the sideline by not becoming clingy and yet trying to be informed and not be out of the loop again (which lead to her being turned down).
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jan 31, 2018
- Messages
- 2,500
Really Zombie? We're back on the Ebino train? Let it die. Just end already.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- May 19, 2018
- Messages
- 970
At this point, I'm wondering if Eve is a subconscious psychic link with Ibusuki, and if Eve found out what she is, she'd just merge and become part of Ibusuki again. Not that that's necessarily a bad thing though. All that would need to happen for Eve to stay with Tarou is for him to get together with Ibusuki.
Group Leader
- Joined
- Apr 12, 2018
- Messages
- 306
I'm starting to wonder if Eve herself already knows Ririsu is a girl but refuses to admit it. Everyone is playing this sort of dangerous game where Tarou knows Ririsu is a girl but won't say it because he doesn't want Eve to disappear, Ririsu knows Tarou knows but won't prod him or say anything for the same reason, and Eve knows Ririsu is a girl but has that thought locked up because she doesn't want to disappear or wants to be with Tarou, in either case because she has her own will.
So it's a ridiculous tense situation where nobody can do anything because they can't or else they will see a real consequence while getting no closer to solving the initial problem. The manga seems to be headed in a dumb and desperate direction and that's probably the point, because the characters themselves have no clue what they're doing and are just brute forcing any solution with maybe some shed of hope, like some emotional MacGyver without a plan.
Like of course the best solution is Tarou just admitting he loves Ririsu and stop using Eve as a substitute. But I think now that it's been brought up, Eve will DEFINITELY confirm Ririsu is a girl before he does anything, that much is clear.
So it's a ridiculous tense situation where nobody can do anything because they can't or else they will see a real consequence while getting no closer to solving the initial problem. The manga seems to be headed in a dumb and desperate direction and that's probably the point, because the characters themselves have no clue what they're doing and are just brute forcing any solution with maybe some shed of hope, like some emotional MacGyver without a plan.
Like of course the best solution is Tarou just admitting he loves Ririsu and stop using Eve as a substitute. But I think now that it's been brought up, Eve will DEFINITELY confirm Ririsu is a girl before he does anything, that much is clear.
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2018
- Messages
- 2,010
@StarixCrown
Everyone that still believes Tarou's father was being altruistic and only trying to help his son is delusional.
Tarou's father knows that his grandfather had this same condition and wasn't at threat because of it. His "I'm doing this to save my son" is a bullshit red herring excuse that is in contradiction with something he already knows as a character. In fact, as evidenced, his attempt to "save" his son did more harm than any possible good. And he knows that people in his family have lived for decades with this without any ill effects because he's researched this for years as well.
I'm sorry, but no, Tarou's dad was not altruistic there. He stated time and time again that he wants Tarou's power. Him suddenly going "but I want to save Tarou from dying from it... despite his grandfather living with it for decades just fine!" is horseshit and trying to justify it to himself. The fact he looks like a defeated man and is giving up on it and only going to help Risu (who is seeing this by proxy and is open to losing it) shows even he's realizing he was in the wrong now, too.
Everyone that still believes Tarou's father was being altruistic and only trying to help his son is delusional.
Tarou's father knows that his grandfather had this same condition and wasn't at threat because of it. His "I'm doing this to save my son" is a bullshit red herring excuse that is in contradiction with something he already knows as a character. In fact, as evidenced, his attempt to "save" his son did more harm than any possible good. And he knows that people in his family have lived for decades with this without any ill effects because he's researched this for years as well.
I'm sorry, but no, Tarou's dad was not altruistic there. He stated time and time again that he wants Tarou's power. Him suddenly going "but I want to save Tarou from dying from it... despite his grandfather living with it for decades just fine!" is horseshit and trying to justify it to himself. The fact he looks like a defeated man and is giving up on it and only going to help Risu (who is seeing this by proxy and is open to losing it) shows even he's realizing he was in the wrong now, too.
Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2019
- Messages
- 187
@Hexxy
Yup, that's pretty much how I see the situation too. Though I think Eve actually already knows a lot about Tarou's heart and feelings but it's not because "she" herself doesn't want to know that she didn't realize it. It's because it is Tarou who doesn't want Eve to know it so she won't be gone. Being ignorant is not Eve's own will but his own. He wants to stay with Eve forever so she doesn't disappear, and it's also him who wants to continue the charade. First Love zombies are directly affected by their creator's desires (not only by their clothing and personality, but also knowledge as shown in the Christmas Eve birthday event where she was ignorant of Tarou's feelings and just believed his excuses until she became a broken hearted zombie who is out of his control and revealed it all to Ibusuki. She became ignorant and ditzy again afterwards when she became normal again (going back to her FLZ form he could influence). Tarou himself realized that Eve becomes unknowing on things he doesn't want her to know or find out
.
I think the Other!Eve she saw is her version that was unrestrained by Tarou's desires and in a way, her true self as the current Eve is modified accordingly to Tarou's desires. If I remember correctly, he also said "Eve was cursed to love him" as a FLZ. So I think her true will is those that doesn't go accordingly to Tarou's wishes or favor (ie. not wanting Ibusuki to unsee her or wanting to see what happened next after he and Ibusuki kissed/confessed in confusion).
I think it'll be cool if the final boss (if there will be one) ends up being Tarou himself. Because he wants to protect Eve, he will enforce what he thinks is best for her (like staying with him forever because she'll disappear otherwise). Completely disregarding her wish to be "fulfilled" because he thinks she's just a first love zombie who doesn't know what's best for herself. He doesn't realize that his desire to "keep" Eve is what's trapping her and causing trouble for everyone including his self. Eve being freed from Tarou is her own self-fulfillment as a completely independent being and is also what will free everyone into moving on for their future.
Yup, that's pretty much how I see the situation too. Though I think Eve actually already knows a lot about Tarou's heart and feelings but it's not because "she" herself doesn't want to know that she didn't realize it. It's because it is Tarou who doesn't want Eve to know it so she won't be gone. Being ignorant is not Eve's own will but his own. He wants to stay with Eve forever so she doesn't disappear, and it's also him who wants to continue the charade. First Love zombies are directly affected by their creator's desires (not only by their clothing and personality, but also knowledge as shown in the Christmas Eve birthday event where she was ignorant of Tarou's feelings and just believed his excuses until she became a broken hearted zombie who is out of his control and revealed it all to Ibusuki. She became ignorant and ditzy again afterwards when she became normal again (going back to her FLZ form he could influence). Tarou himself realized that Eve becomes unknowing on things he doesn't want her to know or find out
I think the Other!Eve she saw is her version that was unrestrained by Tarou's desires and in a way, her true self as the current Eve is modified accordingly to Tarou's desires. If I remember correctly, he also said "Eve was cursed to love him" as a FLZ. So I think her true will is those that doesn't go accordingly to Tarou's wishes or favor (ie. not wanting Ibusuki to unsee her or wanting to see what happened next after he and Ibusuki kissed/confessed in confusion).
I think it'll be cool if the final boss (if there will be one) ends up being Tarou himself. Because he wants to protect Eve, he will enforce what he thinks is best for her (like staying with him forever because she'll disappear otherwise). Completely disregarding her wish to be "fulfilled" because he thinks she's just a first love zombie who doesn't know what's best for herself. He doesn't realize that his desire to "keep" Eve is what's trapping her and causing trouble for everyone including his self. Eve being freed from Tarou is her own self-fulfillment as a completely independent being and is also what will free everyone into moving on for their future.
Member
- Joined
- Feb 3, 2019
- Messages
- 87
People who keep using gramps as an example of someone living a long life with a FLZ need to go back and re-read that arc. HIS GREAT GRAMPA COULDN'T SEE THEM FOR 70 YEARS.
Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2019
- Messages
- 187
@definitionofinsanity
Well, I just want to point out (as stated by another user here) that the grandfather "lost" his ability for years and only got it back in his old age after hitting his head. So it is still unknown if constantly keeping your FLZ will shorten your lifespan, unless the father had researched their family history and saw that those with ability that stayed single didn't get to live past 40. But that's unstated so there's leeway for both sides of the argument.
Personally, I don't find the big deal why it can't be both. Like, he wants the ability for his self but at the same time, wants to free Tarou from being fully committed to his FLZ. Humans are pretty complicated creatures and they can be pretty contrary but still find both sides as true. He's still an @ss to Eve though, so the hate for his character is understandable
Well, I just want to point out (as stated by another user here) that the grandfather "lost" his ability for years and only got it back in his old age after hitting his head. So it is still unknown if constantly keeping your FLZ will shorten your lifespan, unless the father had researched their family history and saw that those with ability that stayed single didn't get to live past 40. But that's unstated so there's leeway for both sides of the argument.
Personally, I don't find the big deal why it can't be both. Like, he wants the ability for his self but at the same time, wants to free Tarou from being fully committed to his FLZ. Humans are pretty complicated creatures and they can be pretty contrary but still find both sides as true. He's still an @ss to Eve though, so the hate for his character is understandable
Dex-chan lover
- Joined
- Jun 22, 2018
- Messages
- 2,010
@TurntAturn @Winterspring
Yes, and he was also older than Tarou (Tarou's great grandfather was ~24)... WHO ALSO ONLY RECENTLY STARTED SEEING FIRST LOVE ZOMBIES. If anyone is at risk, and the onus is on them to prove it, it's Risu, NOT Tarou. Especially since she's the only female that we know of that can see them and is doing so by proxy and has been doing so this ENTIRE TIME. Tarou? No.
Also, IIRC, his great grandfather mentioned past family history and nothing about health effects was mentioned.
Just checked, yep:
And we can safely assume that Tarou's father would ALSO know this same knowledge after having investigated the family's ability. This is proof positive that the ability is not deadly (and before anyone gets clever with "b-b-but his 'whole life' can mean that he died at 30!" - 1.) Tarou's great grandfather made no mention of this. "Whole life" implies not dying young. 2.) The silhouette of him is clearly that of an older man.). And I would think if there was a possible connection to short lifespan and the ability, Tarou's great grandpa would've maybe, I dunno, mentioned it during this exchange.
Yes, and he was also older than Tarou (Tarou's great grandfather was ~24)... WHO ALSO ONLY RECENTLY STARTED SEEING FIRST LOVE ZOMBIES. If anyone is at risk, and the onus is on them to prove it, it's Risu, NOT Tarou. Especially since she's the only female that we know of that can see them and is doing so by proxy and has been doing so this ENTIRE TIME. Tarou? No.
Also, IIRC, his great grandfather mentioned past family history and nothing about health effects was mentioned.
Just checked, yep:
And we can safely assume that Tarou's father would ALSO know this same knowledge after having investigated the family's ability. This is proof positive that the ability is not deadly (and before anyone gets clever with "b-b-but his 'whole life' can mean that he died at 30!" - 1.) Tarou's great grandfather made no mention of this. "Whole life" implies not dying young. 2.) The silhouette of him is clearly that of an older man.). And I would think if there was a possible connection to short lifespan and the ability, Tarou's great grandpa would've maybe, I dunno, mentioned it during this exchange.
Member
- Joined
- Jan 14, 2019
- Messages
- 187
@definitionofinsanity
I think having a FLZ is also included in what the father considers dangerous because it's clearly Eve who was causing the strain on Tarou (whenever she goes in activity). Though I'm not sure if he thinks "just" seeing them is dangerous (he's intent on removing the ability on Ririsu though). Well, in a way, seeing them can also be considered dangerous because Ibusuki is forced to act like a man which gets in the way of her love life (but that's not directly related to life-threatening situation). Anyways, she doesn't have FLZ so she doesn't really get the strain unless she touch and influence them (but that's unknown information to him). He does want to remove the ability from her too, though.
The father won't really get anything from taking Eve as he cannot see them in the first place. Also, in the beginning, before he found out Tarou got his ability back, he already told the sister that it's better if Tarou doesn't see FLZ (if I remember correctly) even though having the ability back would greatly help with his research into seeing them as he got a living sample. So he's already intent on stopping Tarou from seeing Eve even before he found out how "special" she is. I think he realized how dangerous having FLZ is when he felt the strain on his self and saw Tarou's collapse though. That's why he changed his research from "being able to see them" to "stop seeing them". So he either got that idea from that experience, his research, or the author pulling stuff for plot.
As I said earlier, there's leeway for both sides of the argument as there's still a lot of unknown information. Nothing's certain unless confirmed or showed. As for what you said about grandpa: 1. Is that the case? I kinda consider "whole life" to mean from moment of birth to death. But I'm from Asia so my understanding maybe different from English speaking countries. 2. I can see the silhouette to be fitting for a grandfather but I'm the skeptic type so I don't use term certainly or definitely unless it's completely shown. The grandpa not mentioning anything is not really proof because you can say that he doesn't know or realize it, etc etc. In short, due to lack of information, author has leeway to still pull it.
I think having a FLZ is also included in what the father considers dangerous because it's clearly Eve who was causing the strain on Tarou (whenever she goes in activity). Though I'm not sure if he thinks "just" seeing them is dangerous (he's intent on removing the ability on Ririsu though). Well, in a way, seeing them can also be considered dangerous because Ibusuki is forced to act like a man which gets in the way of her love life (but that's not directly related to life-threatening situation). Anyways, she doesn't have FLZ so she doesn't really get the strain unless she touch and influence them (but that's unknown information to him). He does want to remove the ability from her too, though.
The father won't really get anything from taking Eve as he cannot see them in the first place. Also, in the beginning, before he found out Tarou got his ability back, he already told the sister that it's better if Tarou doesn't see FLZ (if I remember correctly) even though having the ability back would greatly help with his research into seeing them as he got a living sample. So he's already intent on stopping Tarou from seeing Eve even before he found out how "special" she is. I think he realized how dangerous having FLZ is when he felt the strain on his self and saw Tarou's collapse though. That's why he changed his research from "being able to see them" to "stop seeing them". So he either got that idea from that experience, his research, or the author pulling stuff for plot.
As I said earlier, there's leeway for both sides of the argument as there's still a lot of unknown information. Nothing's certain unless confirmed or showed. As for what you said about grandpa: 1. Is that the case? I kinda consider "whole life" to mean from moment of birth to death. But I'm from Asia so my understanding maybe different from English speaking countries. 2. I can see the silhouette to be fitting for a grandfather but I'm the skeptic type so I don't use term certainly or definitely unless it's completely shown. The grandpa not mentioning anything is not really proof because you can say that he doesn't know or realize it, etc etc. In short, due to lack of information, author has leeway to still pull it.
Similar threads
