I Swear I Won't Bother You Again! - Vol. 3 Ch. 15
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This prince can go explode.
Yulan, hurry up and marry Vio already, jfc dude you’re slow.
Yulan, hurry up and marry Vio already, jfc dude you’re slow.
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@comeonnow0
We're reading Violet's story
She's the one who reincarnated
It didn't show any catalyst or reason or any detail for why the prince changed.
If you noticed any reasons, please do list them.
We're reading Violet's story
She's the one who reincarnated
It didn't show any catalyst or reason or any detail for why the prince changed.
If you noticed any reasons, please do list them.
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I’m so sick of this forgiving thing. The prince previously didn’t even try to understand her and used such a cruel method to shake her off even though he knew she had feelings for him. I might have second lead syndrome but it makes me so sad seeing the interests get back together after he changes. I just think they weren’t meant to be man 
.
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@comeonnow0 Your passion is overflowing, perhaps you should go confine yourself in the girl's bathroom until you calm down.
Jokes aside, no one was really defending her actions. We just understand how she feels, and don't blame her. (we would still condemn her in a court, feigning ignorance to her insanity out of fear for our loved ones, but we would feel for her as we do it nonetheless)
btw, In many countries, America included, being mentally insane is essentially a get out of jail for free-therapy card (we never use it though, since again, no jury is crazy enough to let someone who's mind is truly broken back into society, so they just feign ignorance and claim sanity). I'm not actually positive she went mentally insane (just emotionally), but nonetheless, being driven insane is not something to be taken lightly, and is something most people would consider sad. This doesn't mean they think that person should not be subjected to any consequences from their actions, they can just sympathies with them since when your in a pit you cant get out of, watching others burn with you (especialy those who have what you cannot obtain, put you were you are, or both in this instance) is... something totally human that we all want to do at some point in our lives.
And yes you did twist his words, twisting them in a way that matched the viewpoint your stuck interpreting at. You probably don't realize it since... your viewpoint is too fixated so your getting these contrived interpretations naturally, but they are twisted even if its not intentional. Maybe try re-reading some of the earlier comments tomorrow, once the high that reading a new chapter brings wears off.
Lastly, statistics do not work in your favor....
Sure, the vast majority don't go down the wrong rode, but from what I have read, there is at least a statistical increase nonetheless of those that do.
Now, I'm not talking about killing your stepsister bad here ofc, nor am I explicitly talking complete and total neglect from both parents level of abuse.... I don't know how to lookup "stepsister murder statistics for daughter of a neglectful and verbally abusive father who remarries and loves his second wife and daughter after neglecting first wife to death". But supposedly abused children are slightly more likely to become abusers themselves. Though, this statistic is completely overshadowed by the fact they are overwhelmingly more likely to just accept their situation and become passive pushovers as an adult who continues to be abused for life.
Now having read that because some rando started bringing up statistics in a drama rom-com manga (this was comedy right? it felt like comedy before you guys made me think....), I have to say this feels a lot realer now.
She went down the vengeful and crazy route once and, looking at her itinerary.... it seems she is now going down the more well traveled route.
Learned helplessness is scary....
And my final thoughts which I had before I typed this hell there are more words on this comment page than in all the chapters of this manga combined
Jokes aside, no one was really defending her actions. We just understand how she feels, and don't blame her. (we would still condemn her in a court, feigning ignorance to her insanity out of fear for our loved ones, but we would feel for her as we do it nonetheless)
btw, In many countries, America included, being mentally insane is essentially a get out of jail for free-therapy card (we never use it though, since again, no jury is crazy enough to let someone who's mind is truly broken back into society, so they just feign ignorance and claim sanity). I'm not actually positive she went mentally insane (just emotionally), but nonetheless, being driven insane is not something to be taken lightly, and is something most people would consider sad. This doesn't mean they think that person should not be subjected to any consequences from their actions, they can just sympathies with them since when your in a pit you cant get out of, watching others burn with you (especialy those who have what you cannot obtain, put you were you are, or both in this instance) is... something totally human that we all want to do at some point in our lives.
And yes you did twist his words, twisting them in a way that matched the viewpoint your stuck interpreting at. You probably don't realize it since... your viewpoint is too fixated so your getting these contrived interpretations naturally, but they are twisted even if its not intentional. Maybe try re-reading some of the earlier comments tomorrow, once the high that reading a new chapter brings wears off.
Lastly, statistics do not work in your favor....
Sure, the vast majority don't go down the wrong rode, but from what I have read, there is at least a statistical increase nonetheless of those that do.
Now, I'm not talking about killing your stepsister bad here ofc, nor am I explicitly talking complete and total neglect from both parents level of abuse.... I don't know how to lookup "stepsister murder statistics for daughter of a neglectful and verbally abusive father who remarries and loves his second wife and daughter after neglecting first wife to death". But supposedly abused children are slightly more likely to become abusers themselves. Though, this statistic is completely overshadowed by the fact they are overwhelmingly more likely to just accept their situation and become passive pushovers as an adult who continues to be abused for life.
Now having read that because some rando started bringing up statistics in a drama rom-com manga (this was comedy right? it felt like comedy before you guys made me think....), I have to say this feels a lot realer now.
She went down the vengeful and crazy route once and, looking at her itinerary.... it seems she is now going down the more well traveled route.
Learned helplessness is scary....
And my final thoughts which I had before I typed this hell there are more words on this comment page than in all the chapters of this manga combined
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@Binary10011 its been a while, and it may have been already covered in the book that is this comment section, but IIRC...
1) He is attracted to the damsles in distress, hence why he liked her sister in the past, and why he jumped in right away at his false conclusions durring the tea incident.
2) This time, he was utterly wrong during the tea incident, and the other characters confirmed his ignorance. In the end, he eventually realized he wronged her, which helped lower him from his high-horse and put her in slightly better light
3) During the outdoor bullying incident, he learned her sister wasn't a damsel in distress in need of a knight in shining armor. No, she had her sister, who was standing up for her and also training her as the next heir. It is here that he learns she isn't the monster he made her out to be
4) Glasses, or maybe Yulian (idr) pointed out the similarities between her situation and his with his brother. This likely made him feel a much more personal connection with her.
5) None of the hell from the previous life happened, so he now has no valid reason to utterly despise her.
In the end, he basicly learned that he has rejected, wronged, and possibly utterly humiliated a poor and pitiful girl who is going through a struggle he knows all too well, who is struggling to keep her head held high. What more, through her actions and his mistakes, he is learning just how mature she is, and immature he has been. Bc, iirc, he has done nothing to improve the relationship between him and his step-sibling.
Though, tbh, despite learning this he still hasn't done crap to improve his relationship with him. Actually, this bastard is actively attempting to ntr him with the woman he fucking rejected/neglected just a few months ago......
Ok, I'm pissed. Someone kill this bastard
1) He is attracted to the damsles in distress, hence why he liked her sister in the past, and why he jumped in right away at his false conclusions durring the tea incident.
2) This time, he was utterly wrong during the tea incident, and the other characters confirmed his ignorance. In the end, he eventually realized he wronged her, which helped lower him from his high-horse and put her in slightly better light
3) During the outdoor bullying incident, he learned her sister wasn't a damsel in distress in need of a knight in shining armor. No, she had her sister, who was standing up for her and also training her as the next heir. It is here that he learns she isn't the monster he made her out to be
4) Glasses, or maybe Yulian (idr) pointed out the similarities between her situation and his with his brother. This likely made him feel a much more personal connection with her.
5) None of the hell from the previous life happened, so he now has no valid reason to utterly despise her.
In the end, he basicly learned that he has rejected, wronged, and possibly utterly humiliated a poor and pitiful girl who is going through a struggle he knows all too well, who is struggling to keep her head held high. What more, through her actions and his mistakes, he is learning just how mature she is, and immature he has been. Bc, iirc, he has done nothing to improve the relationship between him and his step-sibling.
Though, tbh, despite learning this he still hasn't done crap to improve his relationship with him. Actually, this bastard is actively attempting to ntr him with the woman he fucking rejected/neglected just a few months ago......
Ok, I'm pissed. Someone kill this bastard
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@Binary10011 I can sum up basically all the reasons. It's because Violette is different. In the previous life, Violette harassed Maryjun, and that caused the Prince to react in disgust to Violette and protect Maryjun. He had the chance to know Maryjun, and he developed a relationship with her. Here, in the current life, Violette is not harassing her sister, so there's no opportunity for Maryjun to develop a close relationship with the prince.
It's said in this chapter right here. It was because of Violette's actions that the prince had an opportunity to get to know Maryjun. That's it.
@monoreposo Class act. I'm "passionate", so therefore I should confine myself to the girl's bathroom.
Okay, I am going to say this. I am someone who studies law. There are multiple different requirements for whether a person can successfully use the insanity defense in the US, and different states follow different tests/requirements. I'm saying that right here, in this case, Violette is unlikely to meet most of those requirements. It depends on the exact jurisdiction and the case law, but Violette would likely not qualify.
No, I did not twist "his" (I use the same pronoun as you since you called the person his; I don't know) words. I laid out the foundation and the logical conclusion. That's how logic works. If we follow that person's line of thought, then that is a very logical conclusion. You or someone else can say no, that doesn't follow because X or Y reason. You haven't given any reasons. You just said I twisted his words without any explanation.
And yeah, no, now you're twisting the statistics. You straight up admit that the vast majority do not go down the wrong road. That's true. Yes, there is a statistical increase if a child suffers abuse that they will grow into an adult who commits crimes. I already acknowledged that in my earlier comment. However, you already admitted the very first part, that it's not true in the vast majority of cases. That's all I need to stand by. The other person is literally ignoring the majority of those people who don't become criminals because they were abused. The only way to reach the conclusion that they reached is by ignoring all of those people.
It's said in this chapter right here. It was because of Violette's actions that the prince had an opportunity to get to know Maryjun. That's it.
@monoreposo Class act. I'm "passionate", so therefore I should confine myself to the girl's bathroom.
Okay, I am going to say this. I am someone who studies law. There are multiple different requirements for whether a person can successfully use the insanity defense in the US, and different states follow different tests/requirements. I'm saying that right here, in this case, Violette is unlikely to meet most of those requirements. It depends on the exact jurisdiction and the case law, but Violette would likely not qualify.
No, I did not twist "his" (I use the same pronoun as you since you called the person his; I don't know) words. I laid out the foundation and the logical conclusion. That's how logic works. If we follow that person's line of thought, then that is a very logical conclusion. You or someone else can say no, that doesn't follow because X or Y reason. You haven't given any reasons. You just said I twisted his words without any explanation.
And yeah, no, now you're twisting the statistics. You straight up admit that the vast majority do not go down the wrong road. That's true. Yes, there is a statistical increase if a child suffers abuse that they will grow into an adult who commits crimes. I already acknowledged that in my earlier comment. However, you already admitted the very first part, that it's not true in the vast majority of cases. That's all I need to stand by. The other person is literally ignoring the majority of those people who don't become criminals because they were abused. The only way to reach the conclusion that they reached is by ignoring all of those people.
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@Binary10011 Technically, all he has done is change how he treats Vio, and that was because Vio no longer has an interest in him, and Yulan telling him off. Neither of those really changed his character, though.
While the hatred of the Prince is pretty overblown, it isn't without warrant. He comes off as a bit flighty as his initial spark of interest was being neglected by someone who, according to what we know of their past relationship, he should have been happy to see her stop pursuing him. His interest at this point in time makes more sense, as he is seeing her positive qualities, but he is also using their relative social statuses to force her into situations she doesn't want to be in. The one time she had a chance to dodge out of that, she did. What is more, in a situation where they are one on one, she is trying to push him towards her sister. The immediate suspicion should be that maybe her desperate pursuit of his interest had nothing to do with her feelings.
EDIT: I am talking about how he should be viewing her with the last sentence. We know the reason for her desperate pursuit, but given her actions, per the flashbacks, the sudden lack of interest, pushing her onto her sister, and so on, he should be thinking more on what she is doing.
While the hatred of the Prince is pretty overblown, it isn't without warrant. He comes off as a bit flighty as his initial spark of interest was being neglected by someone who, according to what we know of their past relationship, he should have been happy to see her stop pursuing him. His interest at this point in time makes more sense, as he is seeing her positive qualities, but he is also using their relative social statuses to force her into situations she doesn't want to be in. The one time she had a chance to dodge out of that, she did. What is more, in a situation where they are one on one, she is trying to push him towards her sister. The immediate suspicion should be that maybe her desperate pursuit of his interest had nothing to do with her feelings.
EDIT: I am talking about how he should be viewing her with the last sentence. We know the reason for her desperate pursuit, but given her actions, per the flashbacks, the sudden lack of interest, pushing her onto her sister, and so on, he should be thinking more on what she is doing.
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i wasn’t very fond of this chapter, vio should not have given the prince the time of day. given their history, i was shocked at her blushing so she needs to maintain that 6 feet distance from him and her wack job family. however yulan in both times has been amazing and loyal. i wish we had more screen time of them rather than others
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the comment section is on fire lol
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@comeonnow0 Yeah, as stated, I didn't think she qualified for insanity plea.
And as for the statistic section. I did not twist the statistics, you are literally referencing the statistics in my comment on statistics to say I twisted the statistics 🤣.....
I just pointed out both sides of the argument. Most don't go insane, but ofc, more do than normal. When I hear "statistics", my natural thought is to a "statistical increase" or "statistical decrease", and in this case its undeniable that it is an increase in respect to the average. I also said its marginally/slightly increasing and pointed out that the inverse is much, much, much, more likely.... like, they chances they are doomed to be abused for life vs living a normal adulthood are nearly the same (depends on level and type of abuse ofc, but what you get from a 5 minute search on google doesn't give you hope).
When we, or at least I, say your twisting facts, this is what we are talking about. You jumped to the conclusion that my argument is totally against your favor and are trying to disassemble it..... Its not. I had an argument against your use of statistics, and 2 arguments supporting it, with just a little more detail.
I am thinking from both sides as my viewpoint isn't locked atm.
But, if I wanted to claim misleading statistics, I could say you were misleading people since you only pointed out that the majority don't go crazy (as should be the case for any 1 thing in society), and ignored (as in did not mention at all) statistical difference in chance.
But I am not stupid, even you and I, who are typing these walls, have lives. And pointing out every statistic and angle is not something we can do. I just hope you give the others thought process another chance once your mind calms down. And judging from the other thing you said, this could just be a miscommunication
[ul]
And I think you got it, but since others might not, his ava is from a manga about a ghost who haunts a girl's bathroom. Its got nothing to do with this discussion, but I recognized it so you know.... had to bring it up somehow
She, though emotionally shattered, didn't seem to have lost it to the point where she couldn't tell right from wrong after all. Though I never studied this from a legal perspective, just glanced over it from a physiological one. So my knowledge on law here wasn't detailed enough to know for sure that she couldn't claim it or something similar.
That said, I would like to re-iterate for others reading that its rare for those who could rightfully claim the insanity plea to succeed. No jury wants to let a serial killer walk the streets just because they aren't right in the head.... no, not being right in the head is the one reason we want you behind bars more than anyone else
That said, I would like to re-iterate for others reading that its rare for those who could rightfully claim the insanity plea to succeed. No jury wants to let a serial killer walk the streets just because they aren't right in the head.... no, not being right in the head is the one reason we want you behind bars more than anyone else
I just pointed out both sides of the argument. Most don't go insane, but ofc, more do than normal. When I hear "statistics", my natural thought is to a "statistical increase" or "statistical decrease", and in this case its undeniable that it is an increase in respect to the average. I also said its marginally/slightly increasing and pointed out that the inverse is much, much, much, more likely.... like, they chances they are doomed to be abused for life vs living a normal adulthood are nearly the same (depends on level and type of abuse ofc, but what you get from a 5 minute search on google doesn't give you hope).
When we, or at least I, say your twisting facts, this is what we are talking about. You jumped to the conclusion that my argument is totally against your favor and are trying to disassemble it..... Its not. I had an argument against your use of statistics, and 2 arguments supporting it, with just a little more detail.
You then attempted to use my arguments supporting you to claim my arguments against were false. But that won't work, as you can literally do the same thing you attempted to do to my argument to your claim now that you realize that I didn't say anything false, and that you admitted that I didn't say anything false in your previous comment. That is, we can claim baloney just because your argument doesn't hold entirely in the direction I believe you were going. But if all we are going to do is look for ways to chop each-other down then there is no point in typing, as neither of us would actually be reading at that point.
I am thinking from both sides as my viewpoint isn't locked atm.
But, if I wanted to claim misleading statistics, I could say you were misleading people since you only pointed out that the majority don't go crazy (as should be the case for any 1 thing in society), and ignored (as in did not mention at all) statistical difference in chance.
But I am not stupid, even you and I, who are typing these walls, have lives. And pointing out every statistic and angle is not something we can do. I just hope you give the others thought process another chance once your mind calms down. And judging from the other thing you said, this could just be a miscommunication
[ul]
[/ul] I would be lying if I said I read all your comments all the way through, but at the very least, the latest one which mentioned statistics did not bring that up. It admitted some become abusive, but not that statistically more become abusive than average. Perhaps you meant to mention it but failed to or edited out, or perhaps that was supposed to be implied. Or maybe it was in one of your previous walls? Either way, it was not explicitly mentioned in the wall I read that is still on the main comment page, but about to fall off it now.
And I think you got it, but since others might not, his ava is from a manga about a ghost who haunts a girl's bathroom. Its got nothing to do with this discussion, but I recognized it so you know.... had to bring it up somehow
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I didn't mean to make a second post. But since I cant delete it anyways, If you re-read what the other commenter said, you should realize he was not arguing against you the vast majority of the time. He was stating his personal feeling and stance, and you attacked him like a lawyer you apparently are, only hearing the parts that can be used against him.
@comeonnow0 ahh.. sorry, I edited crap in. while you typed the above. I am not going to read everything from previous comments, but I read a few more comments back trying to figure out how the hell this started to begin with since all I got to see was the final curtain
At no point did he say what she did was good, just that she wasn't innately bad. She was driven to be bad, she should be and was punished. That is the past.
I believe anyone in her situation could become like that. Not that they all will, but that they are much more likely too, and that it is understandable that they are much more likely too. I believe that was a good part of what became his argument to you.
I don't think your against his argument.... but.... quite frankly after reading both again I am not even sure what you guys were arguing about... are you sure you were even on different sides to begin with? It seems to me like you guys were both saying the same things in different ways. Only thing that might be different is he was much less hostile to the MC as a person, in light of how she is now.
Oh, wait.. now I see. Ofc this discussion is going nowhere. Your literally condemning the MC and attacking fansgirls and fanboys defending her in the manga's comment section.... What the hell type of argument are you expecting to get from us otaku? Is there even a way for us to win this? Are we supposed to convince you to like her (possible), or that her past is forgivable?
She is a convicted murderer who who served her time, has confessed to her wrongdoings, and adamantly regrets her past decisions.... if I am supposed to convince you to forgive her, this is hells task as even the MC doesn't feel like it can be done. Only Her sister is crazy enough to do that (which, in court, probably means something.... but just not pressing charges might not be enough, she needs to somehow claim its a misunderstanding)
And yes I am using he explicitly. I normally use they and you, but this comment section had so much "she" in it from the previous argument-like things that it was driving me insane
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Can she and Yulan just get together already? I need Vio to be just plain happy ok?!
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@monoreposo Just so you know, even if a person is successful in the insanity defense, that doesn't "necessarily" mean that they are free to walk the streets. They could be committed to a mental institution. That's a possibility depending on the circumstances.
You're missing the point on the statistics issue. Let's start with what we all agree. A person who is abused as a child is more likely to not become a criminal as opposed to becoming a criminal. That is something we should all agree upon because that's what statistics show. In addition, a person who is abused has a higher chance of becoming a criminal than someone who was not abused. That is also supported by the statistics and something we can agree upon. If abused, then > 50% not criminal. That's the first statement. If abused, then increased chance of becoming criminal. That's the second statement.
The problem is the conclusion that Psychronia drew as a result of those statements above. Psychronia tried to argue, quote, "I have no doubt that many people would end up doing something similar if they were in her circumstances." That is what Psychronia literally typed. Let's be generous. Even though in normal language people often use them interchangeably, in reality, "many people" does not necessarily mean most people. However, that's still an attempt to excuse Violette's attempted murder of Maryjun. It is an attempt to say that because she was abused by her family, that means that her attempted murder of Maryjun is acceptable. That is still the literal argument that Psychronia attempted to make.
And that's bad. It's bad because it ignores the efforts and the lives of the abused people who do not become criminals or murderers/attempted murderers. It ignores their lives, the lives of the majority. Yes, acceptability does somewhat go together with how often people do something. Acceptability doesn't always go together with frequency, but they often do. If we go with what Psychronia says, then it is acceptable for an abused person to [attempt] murder. That's Psychronia's position. Imagine if Psychronia's position were more generally accepted by people. They would become fearful of abused people because it's acceptable if an abused person murders. Abused people themselves would become more likely to murder because it's viewed as acceptable. These are the logical conclusions of Psychronia's position. If more people believed what Psychronia believed, then we have very bad results.
That brings up the statistics issue. The only way to justify the above is to ignore the the majority, the abused people who do not become criminals.
And you know, you're right. I had meant for it to be more explicit, but I forgot to type it as I was writing. I did not say clearly that I understand that being abused does raise the chances of being a criminal later in life. I fully admit that as my mistake.
You're missing the point on the statistics issue. Let's start with what we all agree. A person who is abused as a child is more likely to not become a criminal as opposed to becoming a criminal. That is something we should all agree upon because that's what statistics show. In addition, a person who is abused has a higher chance of becoming a criminal than someone who was not abused. That is also supported by the statistics and something we can agree upon. If abused, then > 50% not criminal. That's the first statement. If abused, then increased chance of becoming criminal. That's the second statement.
The problem is the conclusion that Psychronia drew as a result of those statements above. Psychronia tried to argue, quote, "I have no doubt that many people would end up doing something similar if they were in her circumstances." That is what Psychronia literally typed. Let's be generous. Even though in normal language people often use them interchangeably, in reality, "many people" does not necessarily mean most people. However, that's still an attempt to excuse Violette's attempted murder of Maryjun. It is an attempt to say that because she was abused by her family, that means that her attempted murder of Maryjun is acceptable. That is still the literal argument that Psychronia attempted to make.
And that's bad. It's bad because it ignores the efforts and the lives of the abused people who do not become criminals or murderers/attempted murderers. It ignores their lives, the lives of the majority. Yes, acceptability does somewhat go together with how often people do something. Acceptability doesn't always go together with frequency, but they often do. If we go with what Psychronia says, then it is acceptable for an abused person to [attempt] murder. That's Psychronia's position. Imagine if Psychronia's position were more generally accepted by people. They would become fearful of abused people because it's acceptable if an abused person murders. Abused people themselves would become more likely to murder because it's viewed as acceptable. These are the logical conclusions of Psychronia's position. If more people believed what Psychronia believed, then we have very bad results.
That brings up the statistics issue. The only way to justify the above is to ignore the the majority, the abused people who do not become criminals.
And you know, you're right. I had meant for it to be more explicit, but I forgot to type it as I was writing. I did not say clearly that I understand that being abused does raise the chances of being a criminal later in life. I fully admit that as my mistake.
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@comeonnow0 Forgive me. I edited more crap in as I read previous post to me accidental comment.
[ul]
I think this is where I take issue. Most specifically, your use of the word "acceptable".
I don't know what you mean by acceptable, but I do not believe he nor I find it acceptable on a logical not emotional level, nor do I believe anything in his argument was written with the intent to imply that. Understandable, maybe, acceptable, no.
done reading.
Ok, having read it, I really think this is the disjoint.
So, Acceptable. What is acceptable.. I don't know. Let me walk down her road instead.
I am a girl, my father hates me, my mother doesn't love me.... and has killed herself. I was supposed to be the heir to an estate, I was raised to be it, but now some girl from the streets has moved into my home and some wench replaced my mother. Apparently I am not going to be the heir anymore, this girl in rags is going to be, and she doesn't know anything....
I tried pointing out how unfit she was, I got hit and was told to help her.
I hate her.
She is... has been given everything that is mine. Everything I worked for, everything I was promissed. And what worse, she has my family. My father, who I never got to see, was secretly with her all this time.
If it wasn't for her, I would still be the heir.
If it wasn't for her, My father would have loved me.
If it wasn't for her, my mother wouldn't be dead....
Its all her fault
Yep... I'd kill her. She is just a commoner anyways, if it wasn't for my father, she would just be a pebble on the ground. With my power and influence, killing her should be a breeze. I don't even need live 3 months with her constantly clinging to me despite being told very clearly she isn't welcome, and her seducing the person I love without even flipping trying.....
Am I a good person.... hell no! Am I sane..... I don't think I ever was. Am I reasonable? Of-course, not. But is my thought process something society could understand. yes.
While still ofc not acceptable, perhaps it would be more common if these statistics we were pulling were from snobby nobles of yester-yore. I bet murderer rates would skyrocket if the abused felt they had the power to murder one of the ones they felt were a cause of their abuse
[ul]
[/ul]
I think this is where I take issue. Most specifically, your use of the word "acceptable".
I don't know what you mean by acceptable, but I do not believe he nor I find it acceptable on a logical not emotional level, nor do I believe anything in his argument was written with the intent to imply that. Understandable, maybe, acceptable, no.
done reading.
Ok, having read it, I really think this is the disjoint.
So, Acceptable. What is acceptable.. I don't know. Let me walk down her road instead.
I am a girl, my father hates me, my mother doesn't love me.... and has killed herself. I was supposed to be the heir to an estate, I was raised to be it, but now some girl from the streets has moved into my home and some wench replaced my mother. Apparently I am not going to be the heir anymore, this girl in rags is going to be, and she doesn't know anything....
I tried pointing out how unfit she was, I got hit and was told to help her.
I hate her.
She is... has been given everything that is mine. Everything I worked for, everything I was promissed. And what worse, she has my family. My father, who I never got to see, was secretly with her all this time.
If it wasn't for her, I would still be the heir.
If it wasn't for her, My father would have loved me.
If it wasn't for her, my mother wouldn't be dead....
Its all her fault
Yep... I'd kill her. She is just a commoner anyways, if it wasn't for my father, she would just be a pebble on the ground. With my power and influence, killing her should be a breeze. I don't even need live 3 months with her constantly clinging to me despite being told very clearly she isn't welcome, and her seducing the person I love without even flipping trying.....
Am I a good person.... hell no! Am I sane..... I don't think I ever was. Am I reasonable? Of-course, not. But is my thought process something society could understand. yes.
While still ofc not acceptable, perhaps it would be more common if these statistics we were pulling were from snobby nobles of yester-yore. I bet murderer rates would skyrocket if the abused felt they had the power to murder one of the ones they felt were a cause of their abuse
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@monoreposo I think I read all of your edited parts, but I can't be entirely sure of what changed and what was already there.
This all started with a comment from thegiantpossum, who had been criticizing the prince and had made a comparison against Violette. I said that was an attempt to sweep Violette's crimes under the rug by this Freudian excuse. Then Psychronia came in and explicitly defended the Freudian excuse part as a reason for why Violette's actions are "acceptable". I am specifically putting that in quotations to acknowledge your point.
Okay, in the real world, someone can say something like I don't condone violence and then proceed to say additional things that basically condone/encourage violence. A current political topic is whether Donald Trump incited an insurrection. The accusation is that even though he said things like "I don't condone violence", he nevertheless said other things that condoned/encouraged violence. I'm not saying whether the accusation is true or not. I'm using it as a comparison.
Here, Psychronia pays lip service to the statement that Violette's actions aren't good, are bad. At the same time, though, Psychronia literally said things like "I have no doubt that many people would end up doing something similar if they were in her circumstances." It really sounds like Psychronia is doing a lot to excuse and make what she did look acceptable even if Psychronia tries to deny that.
And I'm just a little bit tired when you say that I was just picking the things to attack like a lawyer. I'm not going to confirm or deny being a lawyer. I'm just going to say that has nothing to do with this at all. I only ever mentioned studying law because of the insanity issue, which I think we've passed at this point. Like, if you want to disagree with me for reasons, that's perfectly fine. Say your reasons for why you disagree (which you did, in other parts). It just is tiring when you say something irrelevant like oh, you're acting like a lawyer.
This all started with a comment from thegiantpossum, who had been criticizing the prince and had made a comparison against Violette. I said that was an attempt to sweep Violette's crimes under the rug by this Freudian excuse. Then Psychronia came in and explicitly defended the Freudian excuse part as a reason for why Violette's actions are "acceptable". I am specifically putting that in quotations to acknowledge your point.
Okay, in the real world, someone can say something like I don't condone violence and then proceed to say additional things that basically condone/encourage violence. A current political topic is whether Donald Trump incited an insurrection. The accusation is that even though he said things like "I don't condone violence", he nevertheless said other things that condoned/encouraged violence. I'm not saying whether the accusation is true or not. I'm using it as a comparison.
Here, Psychronia pays lip service to the statement that Violette's actions aren't good, are bad. At the same time, though, Psychronia literally said things like "I have no doubt that many people would end up doing something similar if they were in her circumstances." It really sounds like Psychronia is doing a lot to excuse and make what she did look acceptable even if Psychronia tries to deny that.
And I'm just a little bit tired when you say that I was just picking the things to attack like a lawyer. I'm not going to confirm or deny being a lawyer. I'm just going to say that has nothing to do with this at all. I only ever mentioned studying law because of the insanity issue, which I think we've passed at this point. Like, if you want to disagree with me for reasons, that's perfectly fine. Say your reasons for why you disagree (which you did, in other parts). It just is tiring when you say something irrelevant like oh, you're acting like a lawyer.
