Ijiranaide, Nagatoro-san - Vol. 6 Ch. 43 - You can definitely put up a good fight, Senpai!!

[saladofstones]

All this aside, Paisen's Senpai is clearly being coy regarding Nekotoro. It is my belief, given how she gives Paisen several speeches on going after what he really wants (which is clearly Nagotoro) and acknowledges her popularity, I think Senpai is being a stealth match-maker on Paisen's behalf.

 

[jonsmth]

@Tarage

Remember what I said earlier? If all you run into all day are assholes...

Sorry, it sounded like you were riddling him to simply call him an asshole. But are you for some chance calling everyone else who is insulting him an asshole too? I wonder what that means for you.
Remember why they are insulting him in the first place? Because he's criticizing one aspect of the manga.

Not liking an element of a manga is not fine if said element has LITERALLY BEEN IN EVERY CHAPTER

He's been hoping for it to change over 43 chapters, but here we still find the same dynamic. In case you missed it, there are other commenters jokingly saying that this manga shouldn't have the romance tag in it.
We all sit through those the cringy moments and stomach-churning edginess of a series because we like the art and the premise, so we hope that something is going to change, or some characters are going to redeem themselves. So sometimes, it does take dozens of chapters before we realize the manga isn't for us, and then maybe we drop it.

That's never going to happen

I was kind of suggesting that. I said that it would change the paisen x Nagatoro dynamic and it might turn into a Nana to Kaoru manga.

It won't be "Ijirinaide! Nagatoro" anymore - it would be "Ijittekudasai, Nagatoro-sama!" instead

If you're not reading our exchange right now, let me tell you that he said, "that's fair", to that.

@SunsetSeeker
He's saying that he does get annoyed and angry, but he doesn't dislike talking with Nagatoro
This isn't good proof that he's expressing consent to the abuse (in the page before that, he says he's annoyed by it); for all we know, he's just tolerating the abuse

Not saying "no" doesn't always mean consent, but I do think paisen is an M simply because of the character he was based off of

 

[Tarage]

@jonsmth I never imagined someone would completely fail to understand that idiom. Bravo.

"He's been hoping for it to change over 43 chapters, but here we still find the same dynamic."
Then he's an idiot because it's not going to change. Ever. Period.

"We all sit through those the cringy moments and stomach-churning edginess of a series because we like the art and the premise, so we hope that something is going to change, or some characters are going to redeem themselves."
Don't 'we' me. You have no idea how I feel about this series, so don't fucking speak for me. I don't find it cringy at all. I haven't seen any edge. Sounds like you're reading it for the wrong reasons too. Tell me, how long you going to stand in the rain before you admit you don't like being wet?

"So sometimes, it does take dozens of chapters before we realize the manga isn't for us, and then maybe we drop it."
This is, by far, the dumbest statement you've made. Why maybe? WHY MAYBE?! WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU CONTINUE READING A MANGA YOU DON'T ENJOY?!

"I was kind of suggesting that. I said that it would change the paisen x Nagatoro dynamic and it might turn into a Nana to Kaoru manga."
'I want manga X to turn into manga Y!' I fucking don't. I want this manga to stay this manga because I'm enjoying it. You want Nana to Karou? GO READ NANA TO KAROU.

"If you're not reading our exchange right now, let me tell you that he said, "that's fair", to that."
And I'm telling you that ISN'T fair because you literally are both agreeing that you want the manga to change. I. Don't. If you don't like it, DON'T READ IT.

Why you people INSIST on reading media YOU DON'T ENJOY is BEYOND pathetic. It's a cry for help and honestly, you need it.

 

[SunsetSeeker]

@jonsmth

My guy.
Literally all of their conversations until that point, were her giving him EXTREME verbal abuse.
Combined with the fact that when he said "I don't hate it," he was blushing and smiling, that means he liked it a lot.
In a manga where the mangaka gives them extremely detailed facial expressions, you should pay much more attention to the facial expressions mixed with the words that they say.

 

[Zephyrus]

Guys, move on. This isn't a productive discussion.

 

[jonsmth]

@SunsetSeeker
We're not on the same page here.
I do think there are plenty of hints that point to him being an M, but non-verbal hints isn't expression of consent.

Stated consent is what the other commenter was looking for. He doesn't accept that the original Nagatoro is canon.

@Tarage
Sorry, I don't use that idiom too often in real conversations to be intimately familiar with it as you do.
Still, I don't understand why that is supposed to make him an asshole other than you calling him an asshole. Please enlighten me.

> Don't 'we' me. You have no idea how I feel about this series, so don't fucking speak for me.
Sorry if I wasn't clear. I'm not talking about this series in particular.
You mentioned in a previous comment about how you dropped any other series when you didn't like them. I'm sure you stuck to some series in hopes it would get better before you drop them. If you can't relate, then sorry if I assumed so.
My point is that for that guy you were calling an asshole, this was a series that he followed for 43 chapters because put his belief in it and didn't drop it. Can you believe that? He probably likes Ijirinaide! Nagatoro.

> WHY MAYBE?! WHY IN THE WORLD WOULD YOU CONTINUE READING A MANGA YOU DON'T ENJOY?!
Updates are slow. nuff said
I don't know about the other guy, but he probably enjoys Nagatoro enough that he isn't gonna drop it any time soon despite his opinions
Personally, I do have my limits and have dropped some manga for whatever reason.

> And I'm telling you that ISN'T fair because you literally are both agreeing that you want the manga to change.
We didn't agree for it to change. He commented my argument to be fair, because what he wants to happen would change the series. We don't want it to turn into Nana to Kaoru.


Dude. I think you need to take a chill pill.

I understand how much you love this series, but I think you're starting to fail to comprehend what other people are trying to say now. I'm sorry if I upset you. I didn't mean to. I actually like this series. Did you even read what I write? Were you just picking the things out that upset you? I didn't even @ you in the beginning, yet you reacted to my comment calling out the people who have been insulting a fellow manga reader.

 

[SunsetSeeker]

@jonsmth

Stated consent is what the other commenter was looking for.

I... what? No, dude. That is never going to realistically happen.
You are completely unironically asking for this exact situation to happen

Spoiler

and that doesn't sound stupid or unrealistic at all to you?
I assume, if you heard a Tsundere say "I-it's not like I LIKE you or anything, idiot!" you would actually believe her?

He doesn't accept that the original Nagatoro is canon

Ok? I don't care about that. I never once mentioned the original Nagatoro manga, when explaining why Senpai is an M. Senpai is an M, based of of the events that happen in this manga.
I mean, for Christ's sake, Nagatoro is described as a SADISTIC TSUNDERE by this very author, in its very official series description. Not only does it make perfect sense that Senpai is an M, if Nagatoro is an S, but it wouldn't make any sense if he wasn't. An S an an M go together like the N and S on magnets. Normal people do not find an aggressive S to be attractive. If you don't understand this, even after all this, then there's no helping you and you should seriously consider reevaluating how you've been analyzing every manga character you've ever seen, up until now.

 

[Tarage]

Don't bother. Clearly these two are looking for reasons to read shit they don't like. It's not worth it.

 

[SunsetSeeker]

@Tarage
Yeah, nah, you're right mate. At this point, it kinda feels like I'm trying to paint a wall with babies.
Sure, I'll probably get the job done eventually, but with every throw my arm gets a little more tired.

Good effort on your part, too.

 

[Pachka84]

Semen Demon
They're so adorable. How can you not root for these two shmucks?

 

[jonsmth]

@SunsetSeeker
> I... what? No, dude. That is never going to realistically happen.
> You are completely unironically asking for this exact situation to happen
Of course it's not going to happen in this manga
I'm not even asking for it to happen and of course not between two teenagers who could hardly say that they like each other
but this sort of talk can happen in real life between couples, but not in the way South Park presented it (between two strangers)

again, I was explaining what the other commenter was looking for, and I acknowledge that it isn't in this manga and suggesting that it shouldn't be in this manga

> Ok? I don't care about that. I never once mentioned the original Nagatoro manga
Okay, you probably weren't following the original discussion and you're probably just trying to argue with me for the sake of it, but the gist of it was that some of us were suggesting that paisen was an M despite not having outright saying it and the proof of that was that the author intended for him to be so since the original Nagatoro manga. Paisen in the original manga was the reader self-insert, and the manga's target audience has to be someone who likes to be bullied, since some of the manga is in PoV.

> At this point, it kinda feels like I'm trying to paint a wall with babies.
No, man. I think you're just whacking at a strawman. Of course you'd feel that your efforts are futile because we're not even on the same page. Never was I in a position where I want the current Nagatoro dynamics to change, nor that I thought that paisen isn't an M.

I'll say it again, I like Nagatoro...
but unlike some people here, I don't insult someone who simply criticizes (a certain aspect of) the manga I like.

@Tarage
ffs, I guess you just skipped everything I wrote
I LIKE NAGATORO
I AM NOT YOUR ENEMY
I WANT TO BE YOUR FRIEND
SO I DON'T WANT YOU TO BE A BAD PERSON
is that easy enough to understand?

 

[SunsetSeeker]

@jonsmth
Honestly, talking with you feels like beating my head against a brick wall. This will be my last response. Please don't @ me again.

Okay, you probably weren't following the original discussion

I was following it. I'm saying it's completely irrelevant to the discussion. You don't need to bring up the original manga to prove or disprove that Senpai is an M. Stop bringing it up.

No, man. I think you're just whacking at a strawman.

No. Dude. Just... NO.
That is NOT a strawman.
What I used was called a simile. If anything, YOU created a straw man, when you brought up the original Nagatoro manga to prove something about the current Nagatoro manga.
This is the definition of a straw man argument:
"A straw man is a form of argument and an informal fallacy based on giving the impression of refuting an opponent's argument, while actually refuting an argument that was not presented by that opponent. One who engages in this fallacy is said to be "attacking a straw man"."
This is the definition of a simile:
"a figure of speech involving the comparison of one thing with another thing of a different kind, used to make a description more emphatic or vivid (e.g., as brave as a lion, crazy like a fox )."

Also, I think it should be noted that the "certain aspect of the manga" that you and/or the other guy doesn't like is literally what the manga is based around.
This would be like if you started reading a torture manga that had some good art and then complained "man, I love the art, but this torture shit is cringe-worthy."

I noticed that you said you continue to read manga you don't like (which I suppose doesn't include Nagatoro, considering your last post), solely because updates are slow. I have a suggestion for that: just go to the "manga" tab at the top of the page and hit random until you find a new manga that you actually like and read through it, until the next update. There are enough titles on this website that you could do that every day for years and still not go through them all. Hopefully this can get you to drop manga that you don't like a little bit faster.

 

[Tarage]

@jonsmth I'm going to be less polite than SunsetSeeker because you legitimately seem like a fucking moron so let's do this.
This isn't about liking Nagatoro.
This isn't about enemies.
I don't want to be your friend, because you are stupid.
I am not a bad person for disliking people shitting on something I enjoy because they are too stupid to stop reading.
If you like the series, great, keep reading. If you want the series to change, fuck you, go read something else. If you hate the series, stop reading it and go read something else. It's NOT complicated.
And most of all, if you've read 43 chapters of this manga and you have not once enjoyed it for what it is, and you feel the URGE to come and tell other people about it, go stand in traffic instead.
I don't care if you understand, I just want you to shut the fuck up.

 

[jonsmth]

@SunsetSeeker
I'll @ you again, because I think you're mistaken on my stance and about my reading habits. For that, I apologize if I was unclear on things and if I misunderstood you too.

> What I used was called a simile. If anything, YOU created a straw man, when you brought up the original Nagatoro manga to prove something about the current Nagatoro manga.

The original manga thing wasn't relevant to the discussion between just the two of us. I brought up that point to discuss with another commenter about paisen being an M. It was just part of that commenter's description. I was separating myself from the stance, "I don't think paisen is an M". I apologize if mentioning that made my point unclear.

These are the words I used:
"Stated consent is what the other commenter was looking for. He doesn't accept that the original Nagatoro is canon."
He thought paisen hasn't expressed consent. I was explaining to you what his expectations were. Author's intent didn't matter to him.

I was stating what was going on. I feel that you're trying to tell me that paisen is an M, which I said that I think so too. So, I said, "We're not on the same page here".
The figurative strawman I suspected here was a version of myself who you thought didn't agree that paisen was an M.

But if you're arguing specifically about consent in general, then I think you're wrong. You don't just read a person's expressions and try to read between the lines. Consent has to be explicit. Your simile doesn't really apply, because in real life, for the less common and less socially acceptable kinks in particular, explicit consent is important.

In case you didn't catch it, it felt like I was also whacking at a wall.

> Also, I think it should be noted that the "certain aspect of the manga" that you and/or the other guy doesn't like is literally what the manga is based around.
I actually like it. Why do you think I read the original manga in the first place?
The other guy seems to have a problem with unprovoked violence and lack of consent rather than a specific kink tho.

> I noticed that you said you continue to read manga you don't like, solely because updates are slow
Sorry, I was just trying to be funny. I think plenty of us here has hundreds of bookmarks because the wait times are long.

But really, I only do that for a few chapters and probably not for 43 chapters. I was trying to bring up something that I hope could be relatable to any manga reader; I mean, I'm sure plenty of people sat through a dumpster fire of a series just to see the end of it. Luck would have it that I actually like all the manga I still keep reading, more so than most other readers.

Thanks for the tip, but I'm more likely to not read something from random. My search tags are already very limited.

@Tarage
You can dislike anyone you want, but I wouldn't like anyone to insult someone for such a mundane and absurd reason.
"Be responsible for what you say, people" - I'm not just silly-looking avatar and a name on your screen, @Tarage.
You could have just shut up too after that one comment where I didn't even @ you and did some introspection but you doubled down, dude.

 

[RecycledCabbage]

tiddies megaton...

 

[Tarage]

My god you are a fucking tool.

 

[Monochrome_Scholar]

What's to bet you can probably buy that strap somewhere.

 

[definitionofinsanity]

@Golliboy

And so it begins, a war of Quantity vs Quality. If I remember the 2nd world war correctly, the Prez is in for a big surprise this season.

...Must... resist... making... jokes about... nukes...

 

[Quartapple]

what is the fucking warzone going on in these comments lmao

 

[Zephyrus]

@Tarage
Urging someone to commit suicide, no matter how flippant or viewer-friendly it may be, is not acceptable on MD. Please take one day off from commenting and consider how to voice your disagreement with other posters without wishing them dead.

Thanks,

Zeph