Imasara desu ga, Osananajimi wo Suki ni Natte Shimaimashita - Ch. 41 - Everything, Falling Apart

[story645]

's about that specific moment when he decided to take an easy way out and go along with what she is saying.

The non-easy way is to not accept her lies which to me means challenging them. Like how else is he not going to go along w/ them?

In her ideal world he would've done it, and she is sad that ideal world didn't come true.

She thinks Yuu doesn't love her b/c that ideal world didn't come true, not based on an understanding of Yuu.

But that's beyond the point, because she never said or thought he was with her for sex.

Agree to disagree hard here - I don't think Maruto would do so many variations on this - her mom's issues with men, bookending telling Yuu she loves him with her (passive aggressivly) teasing that he's in it for sex, Aya's retelling of the relationship to her friends as mostly sexcapades, her thinking Yuu wasn't serious about her, her trying to keep the relationship light and easy, going w/ your interpretation of bind w/ body' - her thinking he wouldn't have stuck around if they hadn't had sex!, her telling Hikari that was the trick to getting him, her thinking Yuu wouldn't hold out his hand to her (as compared to Aya believing that Hikari does hold out her hand).

. She says he is "one of those guys she hooked up with", that she never had any feelings for him and so on. Does she also believe that on some level?

I think there's a qualitative difference here b/c telling Hikari that Yuu was only w/ her for sex is (unintentionally) making Yuu the villain - which is why Hikari immediately defends him - while all the rest is basically defensive doubling down "he was only w/ me for sex and well same" If it was about Yuu being her victim, Aya could play the "I played w/ his feelings" card.

 

[GennArc]

The non-easy way is to not accept her lies which to me means challenging them. Like how else is he not going to go along w/ them?

If he decided to challenge them, he would've done something akin to Hikari, and said "I know you're not that type of person" when she said she got bored of him.

with her (passive aggressivly) teasing that he's in it for sex

Which you still haven't provided any examples of.
It's just tough to argue against some arbitrary "facts" which are not in the story.

her thinking Yuu wasn't serious about her

Also no examples. I could agree with "Yuu wasn't serious enough".

going w/ your interpretation of bind w/ body' - her thinking he wouldn't have stuck around if they hadn't had sex

No, it's not even that. In that moment when he was actually about to leave on train, she couldn't make herself ask for his contact info, so in her moment of desperation she used her body (as in clung to him, not had sex).

Spoiler

"See ya, Yami-senpai..."
"......Ah."

Since I didn't stand up from the bench, he seemed to pick up on it and gave a casual farewell.

There was something slightly reluctant in his tone, in the way he acted, but...
It probably didn't even come close to the frustration I was feeling in that moment.

Because... because...
Wait, hang on.
Your... Yuu's contact info...

"Ah..."

Yuu didn't ask mine.
He didn't even try to ask.

But it's probably just because he's sleepy and not thinking straight.

Maybe he'll realize it later, once he's on the train.
Or when he gets home, after catching up on sleep.
Maybe he'll regret not getting my number then.

...Or maybe he won't.
Maybe he won't even think about it at all.
He might just move on like nothing happened, like it's no big deal.

"Uh... uhm..."

But there's one thing I know for sure.
I'll regret it. I'll drown in regret.

"Hey, uh... Yuu!"
"Hm?"

Yuu, still half-asleep, doesn't even look at me properly. Ugh, so irritating.

"Hey, I mean... I mean-!"
"Yami-senpai?"

He wasn't even noticing how desperate I looked.

...Wait. Stop. Don't blame him for this, Ayami.
Why can't I just spit it out?

I know he'd give it to me, no problem.
There's no reason to hesitate, none at all.

So then why, why-?

Yesterday, it was so easy.
I dragged him into that hotel without a second thought.

"...Ugh."

Ah, seriously.

Something as simple, as innocent as this...
I just can't do it, can I?

If it was about Yuu being her victim, Aya could play the "I played w/ his feelings" card.

I think the important part was to convince Hikari that Yuu didn't have feelings for her, he always loved Hikari and she just managed to seduce him, innocent and naive as he was.

 

[story645]

"I know you're not that type of person" when she said she got bored of him.

But this line of thinking about nuance is specifically about her family/home life.

Which you still haven't provided any examples of.

What about this chapter? Where Yami says she'll be there when he's in the mood, Yuu kinda challenges, and Yami's response to his kinda challenge is to assure him that she'll always be his "convenient woman":

Spoiler

Yuu: “So, um… what I wanted to ask was…”
Yami: “What?”
Yuu: “This isn’t… just a whim, right?”
Yami: “……”
Yuu: “Like… once we’ve gotten over this, you’re not just gonna…”
Yami: “Don’t worry. Whenever you’re in the mood, I’ll let you do it again~”
Yuu: “That’s not what I mean, not in some casual way like that…”

She comforted me with her whole body after I lost what was basically my first gamble in life.
And she let out her own sadness and pent-up feelings, too.

Yami: “Yeah… I’ll keep being your convenient woman, always.”

We were both people who’d been hurt…
No, putting my pain on the same level as hers would be disrespectful to her.
Yami: “So… let’s exchange IDs, Yuu…”

There's nothing in her tone here to indicate she was teasing w/ the "convineniant woman", Yuu doesn't push back at all and she pushes for the contact that we the reader already know she thinks is a sign of interest.

Which right, Maruto chooses to make Aya calling herself convenient & asking Yuu for the thing she thinks indicates interest as the last interaction between Yuu and Aya in this chapter. I think Maruto's intentionally using it to summarize their dynamic 'cause otherwise why not have more snippits?

Which you still haven't provided any examples of.

It's a disagreement on tone - you read it as straight teasing and I read it as passive aggressive. I admit I do not know Japanese well know enough to know if it comes across that way in Japanese.

 

[GennArc]

But this line of thinking about nuance is specifically about her family/home life.

As I mentioned, the whole dialogue was about him accepting her lies. If he decided not to, he would do it from the start, not from the "parents" part.

What about this chapter? Where Yami says she'll be there when he's in the mood, Yuu kinda challenges, and Yami's response to his kinda challenge is to assure him that she'll always be his "convenient woman":

This chapter takes place at the start of their relationship. So if you want to prove the point of her thinking that he was in it for sex, maybe it's not that effective to use her quote from day 1.

I think Maruto's intentionally using it to summarize their dynamic 'cause otherwise why not have more snippits?

Trust me, I would like to have more snippets. But Maruto clearly chose to make these chapters to be about Yuu's heartbreaks, not to explore his relationships with Hikari and Yami. And this is why I am happy they did it as spin-off, not as a part of the main story.

It's a disagreement on tone

I disagree that it's a disagreement on tone:

Even if we assume she wasn't joking here on this page, it's not even close to "you're with me only for sex", it's "you must be very horny right now" at most.

Even though really, I can't even imagine how you read this and think this is her being passive agressive and not teasing

Spoiler

"You know, since we haven't seen each other lately, we haven't done each other either. Must be tough for a guy your age, right? All pent up and stuff~."
"Could you stop with the shameless jokes already? It's embarrassing!"

Even though I could see his face, not being able to touch him made my feelings spill out as these bold, reckless words.

"Hey, should I send you a special video to help you out? With some sexy audio thrown in~?"
"Absolutely not! You know about revenge porn, right, Yami-senpai?!"
"Aww, so you're planning to betray me someday, Yuu? That's so sad~."
"That's not what I'm saying at all! Jeez, enough already."
"Oh, so you don't want it? Hypocrite~."

I wasn't drunk. I wasn't high, either.
But still, I'd get caught up in my own provocations, letting them excite me as I piled on.

Using dirty talk to get myself hyped up, trying to ignore everything else.
And why did I need to hype myself up so much? Well...

 

[story645]

If he decided not to, he would do it from the start, not from the "parents" part.

Aya plays this out in her head - "don't just believe it, do you think that's who I am". She then plays out "pick up the "nuance /here's information about my mother"

So if you want to prove the point of her thinking that he was in it for sex, maybe it's not that effective to use her quote from day 1.

I think Maruto doesn't include anything else to make the point that this is their relationship dynamic & Yuu is blindingly oblivious to Aya's insecurity. I think Maruto shows that by the end of the relationship Aya still just thinks of herself as "convenient" rather than loved - in the fireworks chapter Yuu hasn't helped her feel like a normal girl deserving of a relationship (unlike Hikari helping her open up & build friendships), she thinks Yuu is still in love with Hikari, and that he won't put in the work to really reach out his hand to her. Aya's crash out doubles down on this.

I can't even imagine how you read this and think this is her being passive agressive and not teasin

She just told him she loved him & he asks if she's drunk (rather then reciprocating her feelings) & then she responds to his non answer of her declaring her love with he misses her causes he's missing out on sex. Maruto writes Aya as deflecting from serious conversations in ways that sound like a joke but she actually means it -like the moving in conversation or the information about her family or the "go love someone else" goodbye. Like that seems like how she communicates, especially with Yuu.

ETA: as for her being into it - yeah, she can 100% be very into the sex and also be resentful/insecure about it.

 

[Mrson]

As I mentioned, the whole dialogue was about him accepting her lies. If he decided not to, he would do it from the start, not from the "parents" part.

This chapter takes place at the start of their relationship. So if you want to prove the point of her thinking that he was in it for sex, maybe it's not that effective to use her quote from day 1.

Trust me, I would like to have more snippets. But Maruto clearly chose to make these chapters to be about Yuu's heartbreaks, not to explore his relationships with Hikari and Yami. And this is why I am happy they did it as spin-off, not as a part of the main story.

I disagree that it's a disagreement on tone:

Even though really, I can't even imagine how you read this and think this is her being passive agressive and not teasing

This guy is arguing with several people and he's winning, stop him lol

 

[fflogschampion]

Person I agree with is obviously winning the argument

Man, it's so nice seeing such an internet classic here.

 

[nogoodsumbeach]

I'm putting in my guess for the next one being a chapter telling the moment he fell back in love with Hikari (really wanna see this honestly)

Yeah next chapter i thinks its gonna cover the moment Yuu fall in love with Hikari again (or rather him realizing he never fall out of love with her) until the moment Hikari rejected him imo, that would mean the side story will cover all his heartbreak.

 

[GennArc]

Aya plays this out in her head - "don't just believe it, do you think that's who I am". She then plays out "pick up the "nuance

Yes, which is what I'm talking about - she is lying but wants him to stop accepting her lies just because they are convenient.
It's not even remotely about "we didn't talk about important things when we were dating", especially since she was the one who decided to separate her family matters and her private time with Yuu despite his questions.

I think Maruto doesn't include anything else to make the point that this is their relationship dynamic

He didn't include anything with Hikari either. Does that mean he was also saying that their friendship was shallow and she was just absolutely insensitive?

I think Maruto shows that by the end of the relationship Aya still just thinks of herself as "convenient" rather than loved - in the fireworks chapter Yuu hasn't helped her feel like a normal girl deserving of a relationship

I'm not sure how this even came up here. In the fireworks chapter she is in anguish about her own decision to leave her love behind because of the guilt she is feeling about her mother's situation. Which had absolutely nothing to do with Yuu and which she doesn't blame him for.

She just told him she loved him & he asks if she's drunk

I am really amazed by the ability to twist any words in favor of your current point. When Yuu responds with this to her joking tone, accentuated by ~

"Still, that's two weekends in a row you've been unavailable. What's going on?"
"Huh? What's this, Yuu? You miss me? Feeling lonely?"
"Well... yeah, I guess..."
"Aww, I adore your honesty. Love you, Yuu~."
"...Are you drunk, Yami-senpai?"

you say that he is giving a non-answer and is not reciprocating her feelings, and when he said he loved her in chapter 29, you kept insisting she was doubting his feelings.
I dunno, don't you see how it goes? If he responded with "I love you too", she would tease him about it even more relentlessly. In the snippet I posted, she keeps twisting his every response to tease him more. And using your "she actually means it", do you think she meant it when she said he was gonna betray her one day and upload revenge porn?

with he misses her causes he's missing out on sex

Which she doesn't say.

 

[nogoodsumbeach]

Now, volume 3, which Maruto will sell at Comiket this August 16–17 and which is not an official release, will contain an exclusive chapter, chapter 41.5. Last time, the Spanish team managed to get the extra chapters for volumes 1 and 2 pretty quickly, so if they get it again, I’ll post a secondhand translation of it.

I would guess ch 41.5 would either be from Yuu pov after Hikari reject him and left him to search for Yami or it will be from the pov of Hikari/Yami friends that witness the whole thing. Would be a bit surprised if its anything other than that

EDIT: Turns out it looks like 41.5 gonna cover the week after the festival so nevermind lol.
A bit surprised by that tho, thought 42 gonna have us back where we were with Hikari and Yami arguing

 

[story645]

she is lying but wants him to stop accepting her lies just because they are convenient

Yes but play this out - how does Yuu challenge her lies about her family w/o finding out the truth?

He didn't include anything with Hikari either.

The previous 3? chapters all focused on the same themes of Yuu's crippling insecurity with respect to Hikari b/c he's put her on an impossibly high pedestal. Which is also present in every Yuu opening up to Hikari chapter in the manga & is the key barrier to the Yuu/Hikari relationship.

Which had absolutely nothing to do with Yuu and which she doesn't blame him for.

She's still mad at him a year later and both the crash out and break up chapter focus on the same theme - reaching out the hand - which Maruto also shows Hikari doing. I think Maruto is using "reaching out hand" as a metaphor for dependable emotional support - in the Aya/Hikari make friends chapter Hikari grabs on & in the crash out chapter, Hikari is reaching out to get Aya to open up - and is making the lack of it a recurrent theme of the Aya/Yuu relationship. I think she ghosted him b/c she didn't want to burden him w/ her family stuff b/c she didn't think he'd be there for her.

If he responded with "I love you too", she would tease him about it even more relentlessly.

That's Yuu's fear about being open with her yes, but when Hikari gets really open w/ her Aya puts down the teasing and reciprocates with vulnerability (35.2).

I don't think she believes it all that much in 29 b/c she explicitly asked who he's in love, b/c she's already decided to ghost him, & b/c she's locked into the idea that he loves Hikari.

do you think she meant it when she said he was gonna betray her one day and upload revenge porn?

I think she's very insecure about their relationship and was fishing for Yuu to reassure her that he wasn't going to betray (hurt) her (broadly, not specifically with respect to revenge porn).

ETA: which I think that's what I'm missing - like all the things we keep arguing about is making me wonder what do you think her crash out is about?

 

[GennArc]

Yes but play this out - how does Yuu challenge her lies about her family w/o finding out the truth?

If I play this out, she might tell everything herself, or at least she stops pretending to be fine after he challenges her first lie.

The previous 3? chapters all focused on the same themes of Yuu's crippling insecurity with respect to Hikari

And they didn't show any real interactions with Hikari. Or they did: in one she treats him like a younger kid who needs her protection, in the other she casually drops the bomb about going to the top school without any bother that they are gonna get separated. So I ask again, does that mean they are intended to show Hikari as totally insensitive, and then their friendship as quite shallow?

break up chapter focus on the same theme - reaching out the hand

But it doesn't. It has one sentence with reaching out the hand, and it's not related to the break up at all, it's about him not realizing the intensity of her feelings. Which is a problem, sure, but not the one you insist it is.

That's Yuu's fear about being open with her yes

Why do you keep treating their teasing dynamic like it's something hurtful? Fear about being open? She is teasing, he is trying to avoid being excessively teased, and that's just how it works, they are both enjoying it. In this chapter he remembers it in a positive way, saying how much she smiled when teasing him.

I don't think she believes it all that much in 29 b/c she explicitly asked who he's in love, b/c she's already decided to ghost him, & b/c she's locked into the idea that he loves Hikari.

We've discussed this already and I can't find any more words to convince you. But can you at least explain how it works? So she believes he loves Hikari and doesn't love her. Then he says he loves her. Why does she smile happily in response and thinks she is going to treasure the moment for the rest of her life? If he doesn't love her, as she believes according to you, that means the last words she hears from him are lies of the worst kind. Why would she be happy about it?

I think she's very insecure about their relationship and was fishing for Yuu to reassure her that he wasn't going to betray (hurt) her

Does he look like a person who would willingly do this?

ETA: which I think that's what I'm missing - like all the things we keep arguing about is making me wonder what do you think her crash out is about?

I think it's pretty transparent. When they meet for the first time after the break up, first thing he says is about Hikari. This alone hurts her, and then he keeps accepting her lies as an easy way out, but at the end shows that he still cares about her (but is willing to "make her a memory"). So this contrast between still caring and willing to ignore everything to reach the safe outcome is what frustrates her the most, and that's when the dam breaks. And she accuses him of the same thing, that he just accepted the break up and gave up instead of putting in effort to find out what happened.

 

[story645]

So I ask again, does that mean they are intended to show Hikari as totally insensitive, and then their friendship as quite shallow?

From Yuu's pov she was insensitive! And yeah, from the backstory it feels like his love for Hikari is quite shallow and him not going for her has more to do w/ cowardice than worry about ruining a friendship.

Why do you keep treating their teasing dynamic like it's something hurtful?

I'm treating it as Aya is an indirect communicator who communicates a lot through her teasing so that she has plausible deniability - "I was just joking" - if what she says elicits a reaction she does not like. Since Japanese communication norms are infamous for being indirect, I think it's good characterization for Aya to use a common technique for indirect communication to indirectly communicate. Especially as we don't see the direct communicators - Hikari, Yuu (he's avoidant but when he does communicate it's directly) - using this technique.

s about him not realizing the intensity of her feelings.

Maruto uses this same metaphor (and Yom the same visuals) in 35.2 - Hikari reaches out hand and then drags Aya along to dance, at the end of which Aya opens up to Hikari about wanting to be w/ her.

In this chapter he remembers it in a positive way, saying how much she smiled when teasing him.

Yeah, Yuu missing/ignoring the subtext is the problem.

If he doesn't love her, as she believes according to you, that means the last words she hears from him are lies of the worst kind. Why would she be happy about it?

Because she thinks he kinda means it? But in a shallow way that will fade away as soon as she's gone and not the deep "I've loved you forever" love he has for Hikari.

Does he look like a person who would willingly do this?

Of course not, but trauma responses frequently aren't rational. All Aya's known is her mom's constant betrayels & Aya's model for relationships is her mom constantly getting betrayed. I do not think Maruto would give us this backstory and then unintentionally write her in a way that can be interpreted as her being deeply traumatized by it all.

 

[GennArc]

From Yuu's pov she was insensitive! And yeah, from the backstory it feels like his love for Hikari is quite shallow and him not going for her has more to do w/ cowardice than worry about ruining a friendship.

Well, had the purpose really been to show their relationship, then not just Yuu's love, but also Hikari's friendship would be quite shallow. She seems to not care at all about them going their separate ways in high school. Normally you want to stay together with your close friends, don't you?

I'm treating it as Aya is an indirect communicator who communicates a lot through her teasing so that she has plausible deniability

I think it's a lot less complicated than that. She likes to tease him because she likes the way he reacts. And when you said

when Hikari gets really open w/ her Aya puts down the teasing and reciprocates with vulnerability (35.2).

in the previous post, I was confused. Because their dynamic with Hikari is totally different. They are just not similar at all, she doesn't even tease Hikari really. And that's not because "she is good for her" or something, she is just a different person with different reactions and a different attitude.

Yeah, Yuu missing/ignoring the subtext is the problem.

What if he is not missing the subtext and she just actually enjoyed talking to him, teasing him and seeing how he reacted?

Because she thinks he kinda means it? But in a shallow way that will fade away as soon as she's gone

Okay, so he is not lying. But then again, why would she be happy and treasure it if she believes it's shallow like that?

 

[fflogschampion]

@story645 @GennArc

Are both of you at least on the same page that the narration in this story, while the characters can be wrong about things, they don't know because they couldn't see future happenings or lack the perspective of others, never really lied to the audience? So at least until someone's else POV directly contradict what they're telling us, there should be no reason to not take the narration as a fact regarding their feelings in the context they're telling us at the time.