Imasara desu ga, Osananajimi wo Suki ni Natte Shimaimashita - Ch. 45 - Wandering Through The Night

[story645]

at the very least she didn't throw a single accusation and was more keen on defending Yami than she herself did.

Aya wants Hikari to throw accusations - if Hikari isn't gonna insta forgive her than she wants Hikari to think she's the villain. Hikari refusing to take Aya's bait & instead be understanding is (maybe perversely) the most effective way for Hikari to "punish" Aya, which is why Aya spirals so bad in 41.

of course he knows she likes him.

Or he thinks it was a good bye kiss for closure - especially since he still has no way to contact her afterwards that isn't going through Hikari.

and didn't have that whole conversation.

What conversation? Aya barely let Yuu get a word in edgewise and she doesn't explain why she ghosted him a year ago.

Where's the connection with her mom's suicide attempt and the resulting ghosting?

I meant Aya's current ghosting where she's not going to school as of 42.

 

[GennArc]

Aya wants Hikari to throw accusations - if Hikari isn't gonna insta forgive her than she wants Hikari to think she's the villain.

It's irrelevant what Yami wants. I'm saying it's natural to accuse your best friend of betrayal after the actual betrayal.

Hikari refusing to take Aya's bait & instead be understanding is (maybe perversely) the most effective way for Hikari to "punish" Aya

That's what I thought:

I would be fine if her facing Yami and trying to have her be honest was her way to punish the girl, but that wasn't the case apparently.

But her thoughts from 44 don't support this idea at all, and she's still just simply worried about Yami.

Or he thinks it was a good bye kiss for closure

Did she good bye kiss him simply out of obligation and she actually doesn't like him?
He's not an idiot, I'm telling you.

I meant Aya's current ghosting where she's not going to school as of 42.

Then I'm not sure why you mentioned it here:

Yuu's the one she "caused a massive heartbreak to", she's lied to Yuu every bit as much as she's lied to Hikari, kissing Yuu in front of Hikari throws a wrench in Yuu & Hikari's relationship and Aya knows just how much they liked each other, and Hikari at least knows why Aya is ghosting.

 

[story645]

It's irrelevant what Yami wants. I'm saying it's natural to accuse your best friend of betrayal after the actual betrayal.

It's totally relevant - refusing to take their bait is a power move. But also yes, maybe Hikari is just seeing it the same way you've argued that it went down - that Aya wasn't intentionally trying to betray Hikari but had just full on lost control of her actions b/c Aya's so in love.

Did she good bye kiss him simply out of obligation and she actually doesn't like him?

More that the kiss is closing a door rather than trying to reopen it. It leaves Yuu w/ more questions than answers. He still doesn't know why she ghosted him but apparently she still likes him but she's mad about a bunch of things but she also thinks he's gonna go date Hikari but she still kissed him but she won't give him a way to contact her. It's mind games all the way down.

Then I'm not sure why you mentioned it here:

Because what Aya did to Yuu was way worse since Yuu didn't know why Aya ghosted him then but Hikari knows why Aya is ghosting now. And Hikari knows how to find Aya, which Yuu didn't.

 

[Caffiend1113]

Honestly I just want Yami to get the help she needs and deserves, the self destructive tendencies are getting too relatable fr. She’s basically the whole reason I’m still reading despite only getting 10-14 pages a month, so fingers crossed the story actually does right by her but I won’t hold my breath

 

[GennArc]

It's totally relevant - refusing to take their bait is a power move.

There's no "bait" at the start. Forget what Yami said, it's normal to accuse of betrayal before your conversation even begins.

But also yes, maybe Hikari is just seeing it the same way you've argued that it went down - that Aya wasn't intentionally trying to betray Hikari but had just full on lost control of her actions b/c Aya's so in love.

Betrayal without malice is still a betrayal.

More that the kiss is closing a door rather than trying to reopen it.

So he does understand that she likes him? Because obviously it's trying to close the door, she says her farewell after that. But that doesn't have anything to do with:

where he doesn't know if she likes him or not

Because what Aya did to Yuu was way worse since Yuu didn't know why Aya ghosted him then but Hikari knows why Aya is ghosting now

Erm, so Yami betrayed her, decided to run away, but somehow Hikari knowing why she decided to run away is an upside?
I'd focus more on betrayal vs ghosting if you want to compare stuff tbh.

 

[story645]

Betrayal without malice is still a betrayal.

You argued it wasn't Aya's intent, and is it betrayal if it's unintentional? Seems like Hikari wants to parse out what happened before she makes an accusation she can't take back. What's normal for you isn't necessarily Hikari's confrontation style.

So he does understand that she likes him?

I think he's not sure what to make of all it.

but somehow Hikari knowing why she decided to run away is an upside?

Yes as compared to Yuu's situation where his girlfriend went missing w/ a bunch of unknowns. Hikari isn't plagued w/ doubts here - unlike Yuu wondering if it was his fault.

Which to get back to the original argument - you think it's unrealistic for Hikari to not start w/ being mad about the betrayal, and I claim that by your standard it's unrealistic that Yuu didn't start off w/ being mad at Aya for ranting at him after she ghosted him. Like it's peak "where does she get off?"

 

[GennArc]

You argued it wasn't Aya's intent, and is it betrayal if it's unintentional?

Sure thing. Even if she didn't intend to betray Hikari, she still knew it would be a betrayal to kiss Yuu there.

Seems like Hikari wants to parse out what happened before she makes an accusation she can't take back. What's normal for you isn't necessarily Hikari's confrontation style.

I mean, sure, but that just adds another point to her goody two-shoes account. She can never do a wrong thing. Even when faced with betrayal by her best friend, she goes for a peaceful option. It's not in her style to have conflcts. She'd always carefully listen to the other side, try to defend them from accusations, forgive them.
These are all good qualities, don't get me wrong. But when a character is all about good qualities, it just doesn't work for me.

Which to get back to the original argument - you think it's unrealistic for Hikari to not start w/ being mad about the betrayal, and I claim that by your standard it's unrealistic that Yuu didn't start off w/ being mad at Aya for ranting at him after she ghosted him.

This all started with you claiming that Yuu is being more of a goody two-shoes than Hikari. It was interesting to discuss some aspects of his reaction vs Hikari's reaction, but the initial argument is just hopeless. We just saw Yuu lying to Hikari, using underhanded methods to probe her reactions, hiding his relationship with Yami from everyone, lying to his family, being weak-willed and passive - and you really intend to argue that he is more of a goody two-shoes than Hikari?

 

[story645]

s not in her style to have conflcts.

Which is why she told Yuu she hates liars rather than quietly accepting his confession? Or fought w/ Aya rather than just forgive her?

you claiming that Yuu is being more of a goody two-shoes than Hikari.

Went back and looked and yes I contextualized that as "goody two shoes here", meaning specifically in the context of their relative interactions w/ Aya, Yuu is being every bit the goody two shoes you claim Hikari is - he's being very understanding of Aya and even defending her from Haru's accusations.

Granted, I don't think either of them are goody two shoes - I just think they're both written as somewhat innocent and naive.

 

[GennArc]

Which is why she told Yuu she hates liars rather than quietly accepting his confession?

Doing the right thing again, yeah. She wants the truth and doesn't want her love life to be full of lies.

Went back and looked and yes I contextualized that as "goody two shoes here", meaning specifically in the context of their relative interactions w/ Aya, Yuu is being every bit the goody two shoes you claim Hikari is

I mean, when I say goody two-shoes, I mean it as a character who is virtuous in every aspect, not just in some specific situation, a character who always does the right thing.

 

[peortega1]

I don't know what kind of person runs away when someone who they still hold dear clearly has something important to say.

A person with a sense of survival and self-preservation. Yuu did the morally right thing, but the logical thing to do was escape and run away. This scene is a good example of Maruto showing how the road to hell is paved with good intentions: Yuu does the right thing by going back to listen to Yami, but that decision brought the consequences of Yami slapping him, forcefully kissing him, and ruining his confession to Hikari.

What I liked about 24 is how he gradually grew more confident, earnestly replied to her rhetoric question and so on.
I don't find him in 28 that interesting because he was simply sharing his observations that she couldn't meet him for weeks despite previously being quite clingy and always wanting to spend more time with him. It's just natural to grow worried and it's an obvious concern to express.

Perhaps, but even there in chapter 24, what he does most of all is react to Yami's words. If I had to highlight one thing from that scene, it would be how surprisingly relaxed he was about such a traumatic experience for any man as an erectile dysfunction, and even better, how he blamed of everything on Yami.
I would definitely have expected more insecurity from him after something like that. On the contrary, he took it almost as if he were thinking, "I already felt we were moving too fast and neither of us was ready for this".
Anyway, I repeat, his best moment with Yami, for me, remains their only interaction in the Twilight arc. I'm still cracking up at the whole scene of Yami feeling his erect penis against her buttocks and urging him to "do it" again, while he's more concerned with knowing the true status of their relationship.
He literally seemed a girl there he was asking, "Yami-senpai, WHAT ARE WE?". Between that and him calling Yami "MY GIRLFRIEND" in those first few hours of their situationship... it was very funny.

 

[peortega1]

We just saw Yuu lying to Hikari

His only real lie to Hikari was the dead phone thing. His real sin is the important information he ommited deliberately, or if you prefer, by cowardice and fear.

using underhanded methods to probe her reactions

This never happened, except if you are talking about how Yuu asks for Hikari during the dance in chapters 36-38 all those times why she is upset, trying to probe if she saw something, and even if it is true, this make Hikari into a liar too, who deliberately lied when she basically said Yuu she didn´t see nothing.
All this is not bad neither uncorrect, he is sincere, but he is not honest either.

hiding his relationship with Yami from everyone

Fuck? This never happened. Again, I don´t believe he hidded his relationship with Yami from everyone, and even more important, he couldn´t do it even if he really would try to do it.
His parents securely noticed the changes of him and forced him to reveal his relationship with Yami. They would be very bad parents if Yuu could change so drastically and never noticed nothing, I mean, even Hikari realized Yuu had an ex-girlfriend in somewhere after seeing him with Seki. The bother of Hikari is not Yuu having an ex-girlfriend, is that ex-girlfriend being her own best friend.
Again, there is a reason why we don´t have his Point of View yet... is definitely much more probably his parents forced him to talk about Yami sooner than later, and keeped the secret for him, like they never said nothing to Hikari about the failed exam of Yuu in her school, as Yuu omake chapters confirmed it.
The plot of Yami-Yuu relationship works much better if he really never tried to hid it and the only reason why Hikari never learned about it, is simply because Hikari was too naive an ingenuous to see it -and again, her thoughts in novel chapter 21 during the betrayal left very clear she was almost secure Yuu had an ex-girlfriend and that girl probably was a student of her school, and this is why Yuu didn´t want go to the cultural festival of Hikari school-
And of course, remember, all the plot of the first Hikari chapters is about she doesn´t know really to Yuu and they start the series more as neighbours than as real friends. This is the meaning behind plots like Seki, for example. Yuu has his own life and he doesn´t have to tell Hikari about it, and Hikari has her own life too and definitely unawarely ommited decisive information could have helped Yuu to identify that "Aya-chan" was Yami.

lying to his family

The only thing we know until now with relative certainty he lied to his family it´s about him having sex with Yami. And considering the legal consequences, again, Japanese laws forbide minors to go to a hotel and Yuu and Yami could have ended even in jail for their actions.
And yes, IMO if my theory is true, Yuu was lectured by his own parents after the beach hotel called them to say his son was fucking with his girlfriend and this is one of the reasons why he correctly suspects Yami family could be the real reason behind the ghosting.

being weak-willed and passive - and you really intend to argue that he is more of a goody two-shoes than Hikari?

I mean, Hikari is weak-willed and passive too, if not, all this fuck-up never would have happened in first place. Only a passive and weak-willed girl would stay passively in the door seeing how Yami slaps and later kiss his best childhood friend and actual crush without do nothing and crying as a shoujo fragile maiden.
Is this mutual passive personality from both Yuu and Hikari, the reason why the two were the perfect victims for a dominant girl like Yami.

Doing the right thing again, yeah. She wants the truth and doesn't want her love life to be full of lies.

This "virtuous" moment is not virtuous anymore, when she attacked physically Yuu and launched him to the floor. Not, that is not a right thing moment, is an abuse moment from part of Hikari even if she has good reasons to be upset with the half truths and convenient omissions of Yuu.
A perfect virtuous girl never, never, never, would have used the violence, even more after seeing the toxic ex-girlfriend of Yuu slapping him -so, a perfect virtuous empathetic girl definitely would have thought this previous abuse is one of the reasons of Yuu liar and suspicious actions-
You think someone like Kaoruko Wagari from Kaoru Hana ever would have do something like that?

 

[peortega1]

I mean, sure, but that just adds another point to her goody two-shoes account. She can never do a wrong thing. Even when faced with betrayal by her best friend, she goes for a peaceful option. It's not in her style to have conflcts.

Or she knows Yami is perfectly able to return the punch to her, she is not the docile Yuu and anyway, Yami is not a man who couldn´t punch women, Yami is other girl and she is really capable of beating Hikari up, and Hikari knows it.
Hikari is making here the same strategy Yuu did with Yami a hour before, and with an identical failure.

More that the kiss is closing a door rather than trying to reopen it. It leaves Yuu w/ more questions than answers. He still doesn't know why she ghosted him but apparently she still likes him but she's mad about a bunch of things

Technically, she gave Yuu the right answer from the start, and he surely noticed. Yami is sacrificing her feelings for him for Hikari's sake, even if she still loves him.
That's why he says she's too cruel to him on the last page of chapter 40, after the stolen kiss.
So, both you and GennArc are right. Yuu realized that Yami still loves him, but he also realized that Yami is trying to deny her feelings—again—for Hikari's sake. Her conversation with Haru and Yuki must have confirmed any remaining doubts he might have had.

It's mind games all the way down.

Interestingly, I agree that they are mind games. Yami used and exploited Yuu and Hikari's weaknesses during their confrontations; she knows them better than they know themselves, and yes, this is quite an abusive and toxic attitude.
But it would make sense. Part of the reason Yuu and Hikari are still so understanding is because Yami made them feel guilty for the whole situation, blaming them for what happened while mentally telling herself that she was the only one to blame and that they were innocent —which demonstrates Ayami's mental instability. This undoubtedly affected them both mentally.
That said, I think Yuu doesn't really think so highly of Yami right now, judging by the bitter and spiteful words she uses about her in chapter 4. But his kind and noble nature prevents her from speaking ill of Yami in front of her friends, for the same reason Hikari doesn't.
But we probably will see him very affected when he will learns about how Yami said to her friends she had slept with a lot of dudes during the time of her relationship with Yuu, I definitely can see him asking for Hikari for all the "detailed stories of Aya-chan" and confirming once and again he was the guy of all those stories, and yes, he will be very embarrased when Hikari realizes he was the boy who Ayami kissed and grabbed by the dick in that train station at sunrise-.

 

[story645]

She wants the truth and doesn't want her love life to be full of lies.

I think Hikari demanding honesty is supposed to be bravery, in contrast to Aya's cowardice in hiding her feelings and Yuu's cowardice in avoiding conflict.

who is virtuous in every aspect, not just in some specific situation, a character who always does the right thing.

Kinda think Maruto punishes Hikari a bit for this by having her virtuous befriending of Aya bite her so badly.

 

[peortega1]

I think Hikari demanding honesty is supposed to be bravery, in contrast to Aya's cowardice in hiding her feelings and Yuu's cowardice in avoiding conflict.

I wouldn't call it bravery. Because it wasn't bravery, nor was it a virtuous moment. It was, however, a moment of Hikari finally taking the initiative, finally doing something for once, finally acting like the energetic and dominant girl Yuu always thought she was, finally stepping up —as Yuu directly says during the dance on the basket court.
The problem is that she does it in a way that is too reminiscent of Yami and unawarely repeats the pattern of abuse Yami used on Yuu an hour earlier, including, as already mentioned, physical violence.
It's a scene framed to make it clear that Hikari is SELFISH, just like Eriri in Saekano. Hikari will only help you if you are openly begging for help. She will only forgive you if you plead and implore her forgiveness and acknowledge that she is absolutely innocent and did nothing wrong. Hikari will never take on blame or responsibility that isn't hers, unlike Yuu and Yami.
As Yuu himself said in his omake arc, Hikari is... insensitive. She's a rather insensitive social butterfly. Fortunately for her, Yuu and Yami are figures who fit all the aforementioned criteria. And fortunately for them, Hikari is someone without resentment and easily willing to forgive —as already happened after Yami tried to pimp her out with the dirty old man.
But on its own, this mentality of expecting her boyfriend and friends to read her mind without ever putting herself in their shoes or trying to read theirs in return is Hikari's main sin. Again, she's no Kaoruko Wagari from Kaoru Hana.

Kinda think Maruto punishes Hikari a bit for this by having her virtuous befriending of Aya bite her so badly.

I mean, Hikari was actually warned about Yami's true nature, while Yuu only discovers who Yami really is when they are literally naked in bed and her gaze horrifies and frightens him, in addition to her refusing to kiss him.

 

[KaiserBeo]

This manga is in one big haze.

 

[story645]

Because it wasn't bravery, nor was it a virtuous moment. It was, however, a moment of Hikari finally taking the initiative,

I think the way Maruto is playing w/ themes here, Hikari's demand for honesty is supposed to be a brave/bright contrast to the cowardice/shadows that plagued Aya and Yuu's relationship. Whether Maruto implemented it effectively is a whole different discussion, but he's structuring this for parallels:

Hikari started off the confession chapters pulling an Aya of wanting Yuu to read her mind, but when that didn't work Hikari decided to tell him what was wrong rather than accepting a relationship plagued with what ifs. Unlike Yuu telling Aya that she always lies, Hikari pushes further by telling Aya that she (Hikari) knows the truth and it's not something Aya should be afraid to tell her (Hikari).

But on its own, this mentality of expecting her boyfriend and friends to read her mind without ever putting herself in their shoes or trying to read theirs in return is Hikari's main sin.

A Hikari who couldn't put herself in Yuu and Aya's shoes would've just bounced after the kiss and blocked their numbers. Which putting herself in Aya's shoes & understanding why Aya kissed Yuu is why she's willing to give Aya the time of day after seeing Aya kiss her (Hikari's) crush. And why she wants Yuu to tell her what's going on so that she can understand the situation well enough to figure out next steps. Which is also why Hikari told Aya and Yuu why she's upset and how to fix it rather than just hoping they'd read her mind.

Hikari will never take on blame or responsibility that isn't hers, unlike Yuu and Yami.

Dude what? When do Yuu and Yami take on blame for things they didn't do wrong?