Isekai Mokushiroku Mynoghra: Hametsu no Bunmei de Hajimeru Sekai Seifuku - Vol. 2 Ch. 6.1 - Clash
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Wooooo finally!!
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@Goldenzeal Well, though i can't fully agree with it, i can't deny it either since there is that kind of interpertation too. Though i understand what you meant, it doesn't answer why the saint is "Good" even though she doesn't think that killing those things from the north the same as killing human. One might argue that they are wild monsters, but we have seen that monsters might also be part of a civilization, like our protagonist's, and who says that monster could only be parts of the "Evil" faction? ANd then, what about the prosecution of the dark elf by the human? Why is it fine for the so called "Good" to prosecute the dark elf? Not only that, the moment the dark elf meet Takuto, they instantly think that he is the incarnation of evil. If it is as you said, you would need to know him first before you would say that he is evil since from the start, he puts out the good guy act. Other than that, the Good and Evil here is used way to broadly. It's not applied to only the person, but the whole civilization. Not only that, the fact that the moment the dark elf join Mynoghra, it was also depicted that their anger for their prosecution is amplified. So, would more incline to belief that this Good and Evil allignment is about which side you are in, in the world, rather than the moral spectrum of Lawful-Neutral-Chaos Good-Neutral-Evil.
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@Goldenzeal
As a student of philosophy, I'm aware that there are a lot of different definitions of evil. Regardless of what other settings in the genre say, I'm curious about what this setting has to say about it here.
If hurting people makes one evil, then the 'good' side sending soldiers and hiring unscrupulous mercenaries to kill civilians can't really be classified differently.
As for the main character exploiting people, he seems to be putting his people ahead of his own needs. He has to be reminded to build his own opulent palace and the defense arrangements are really mutual benefit. Those elves were literally starving prior, and even now they're all working together and not trying to screw each other over to get ahead.
Also, creating unthinking machines to do work isn't terribly evil either. At least, not any more evil than livestock. If the good teams are all vegans and use meat trees too, then maybe there's something to it in this world though.
As a student of philosophy, I'm aware that there are a lot of different definitions of evil. Regardless of what other settings in the genre say, I'm curious about what this setting has to say about it here.
If hurting people makes one evil, then the 'good' side sending soldiers and hiring unscrupulous mercenaries to kill civilians can't really be classified differently.
As for the main character exploiting people, he seems to be putting his people ahead of his own needs. He has to be reminded to build his own opulent palace and the defense arrangements are really mutual benefit. Those elves were literally starving prior, and even now they're all working together and not trying to screw each other over to get ahead.
Also, creating unthinking machines to do work isn't terribly evil either. At least, not any more evil than livestock. If the good teams are all vegans and use meat trees too, then maybe there's something to it in this world though.
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The MC is evil, and what’s worse is that he is also innocent to a certain point that he does not see some of his evil acts as evil. Scary
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is it odd i think the flesh trees are cute
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Thanks for the chapter
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Those dastardly evil soil are up to no good again.
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@Anzuda
Most of your issues come from the fact that a nation as a whole has to have a single ailment really.
From her chant ( assuming they really are her true feelings and not just glorified mumbo jumbo ) She does consider them human, but she condemned them to death because they did not repent their sins.
Basically, she killed some heretics who refused to repent and was a threat to her people, because it was either killing them or letting the "innocent" people die.
The main reason she killed them was that they did not act as they should have, they burned villages and killed people, and so it was their "punishment".
If I had to guess, She is probably"good" becauseshe needs to fit the Saintess theme she does not enjoy killing and supposedly avoids it at all cost as she values life highly and helps those I need.
Also, this is just a theory, but at the end of the chapter, she says to herself " I have to save them" this could be referring to literally anything... but its possible considering they were just talking about the cursed forest that she wants to save the dark elves who she knows was exiled there from "the evil" that she suspects is inside the forest. ( could be a reason for conflict with the MC at first )
Or she is just talking about the people of her nation that she needs to protect from the big bad evil guy that´s inside the forest before he comes out and kills everybody like the big bad evil guy he is.
If I had to make an excuse to justify the persecution, it would be something along the lines of calling them impure or corrupted etc... but yeah its a dick move for sure.
Also while its a minor difference, it was the other elves who exiled the dark elves, not the humans ( there are two ruling nations on the "good half" of the continent, then human and the elf nation )
That combined with the fact they know the stories about the ancient evil "The King of Ruin" who is sealed in the forest makes it a pretty easy thing to assume he is a manifestation of evil.
This is also why they are super confused about his friendly and peaceful behaviour later on.
( ofc this is just speculation on how "good vs evil" type of nations usually behave )
He probably doesn't act much like the people from the "evil part" of the continent who thematically might be barbarians and rules by a might make right system.
Or it's possible that the evil continent is like the Dark Elders from Warhammer 40k who is a race of evil space elves who enjoys torture and killing people.
We know that the MC does, but it's possible that other rulers also have an influence of peoples behaviours, but the aura is not enough to prevent bad people from existing completely.
The veteran holy knight, for example, is an asshole, my guess is that it empowers the feelings of its leaders' alignment ( good people does more charity while evil people gets more selfish etc )
But it does not stop people from the other alignment to exist, just like the people she killed who supposedly killed and pillaged the village of the presents who asked for her help.
Most of your issues come from the fact that a nation as a whole has to have a single ailment really.
Well, we haven't seen enough of her to be totally sure, but my guess is that she was ok with killing them because they posed a threat to the people she was charged with protecting.
From her chant ( assuming they really are her true feelings and not just glorified mumbo jumbo ) She does consider them human, but she condemned them to death because they did not repent their sins.
Basically, she killed some heretics who refused to repent and was a threat to her people, because it was either killing them or letting the "innocent" people die.
The main reason she killed them was that they did not act as they should have, they burned villages and killed people, and so it was their "punishment".
If I had to guess, She is probably"good" because
Also, this is just a theory, but at the end of the chapter, she says to herself " I have to save them" this could be referring to literally anything... but its possible considering they were just talking about the cursed forest that she wants to save the dark elves who she knows was exiled there from "the evil" that she suspects is inside the forest. ( could be a reason for conflict with the MC at first )
Or she is just talking about the people of her nation that she needs to protect from the big bad evil guy that´s inside the forest before he comes out and kills everybody like the big bad evil guy he is.
Just because the nation is good-aligned doesn't mean everybody inside it has to be good, but yeah this is a problem if you are going to pull everyone into the same group...
If I had to make an excuse to justify the persecution, it would be something along the lines of calling them impure or corrupted etc... but yeah its a dick move for sure.
Also while its a minor difference, it was the other elves who exiled the dark elves, not the humans ( there are two ruling nations on the "good half" of the continent, then human and the elf nation )
This is because his aura literally makes him look like a black mass with a human shape and glowing eyes, only his champion can see his true self and everyone else sees him as a monster.
That combined with the fact they know the stories about the ancient evil "The King of Ruin" who is sealed in the forest makes it a pretty easy thing to assume he is a manifestation of evil.
This is also why they are super confused about his friendly and peaceful behaviour later on.
( ofc this is just speculation on how "good vs evil" type of nations usually behave )
He probably doesn't act much like the people from the "evil part" of the continent who thematically might be barbarians and rules by a might make right system.
Or it's possible that the evil continent is like the Dark Elders from Warhammer 40k who is a race of evil space elves who enjoys torture and killing people.
Again this is the biggest problem with having entire nations belonging to a set alignment as its highly unlikely that everybody in an entire nation would be off the same aligment.
We know that the MC does, but it's possible that other rulers also have an influence of peoples behaviours, but the aura is not enough to prevent bad people from existing completely.
The veteran holy knight, for example, is an asshole, my guess is that it empowers the feelings of its leaders' alignment ( good people does more charity while evil people gets more selfish etc )
But it does not stop people from the other alignment to exist, just like the people she killed who supposedly killed and pillaged the village of the presents who asked for her help.
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@icekatze
Pulling everybody in the nation into the same alignment is a problem, even if the MC ( and probably the other leaders too ) have an aura that slightly alters the behaviour of their people.
It's usually more so about if you enjoy hurting others or if you do it at the cost of others to benefit yourself that makes it an "evil" act.
But again, its really hard to put everything in black and white...
Very much true.
If you see it from the positive side of things his rule honestly isn't all that bad.
That doesn't make it less true that he is effectively mind-controlling his people after bribing them into joining him when they literally had no other choice.
It depends on the perspective you use, but as a leader go he is actually not too bad.
As for the palace, it was more about the fact he considered it a waste of resources until he was reminded it actually did serve a practical purpose.
Well, I'm going to point out the minor detail that the meat trees grow
So being vegan probably have nothing to do with being good and evil...
(Also it's probably less about meat fruits than it's about it being human meat... you have to remember this is supposedly based on a game world after all )
as for husbandry in general...If you think about it, it's abhorrent how we treat some of our farm animals ( go look up some" human cattle" themed stories sometimes if you want some nightmare fuel )
But that also usually isn't a problem for most alignment charts and I would not be taking a huge risk if i was betting on the humans at least having cattle. ( Elves might not because of thematic reasons )
His abominations are however not completely unthinkable, they are just not very smart because of the negative intelligence bonus and are unable of using human speech.
They can however still communicate with each other as seen in chapter 3, but not with the MC and his champion.
The scout also has some level of intelligence or it would take an ungodly amount of "programming" to get a scouting robot to work on its own without supervision.
If they were "unthinking machines" as you put it then they would have been unable to do any kind of research at all ( by themselves anyway, we know MC used other races for it so.... eh... )
Pulling everybody in the nation into the same alignment is a problem, even if the MC ( and probably the other leaders too ) have an aura that slightly alters the behaviour of their people.
Well, I would agree, but with that said there is a difference from using an army to attack people and using it to defend the borders of your nation from people who are attacking.
It's usually more so about if you enjoy hurting others or if you do it at the cost of others to benefit yourself that makes it an "evil" act.
But again, its really hard to put everything in black and white...
Very much true.
If you see it from the positive side of things his rule honestly isn't all that bad.
That doesn't make it less true that he is effectively mind-controlling his people after bribing them into joining him when they literally had no other choice.
It depends on the perspective you use, but as a leader go he is actually not too bad.
As for the palace, it was more about the fact he considered it a waste of resources until he was reminded it actually did serve a practical purpose.
Well, I'm going to point out the minor detail that the meat trees grow
and is part of the evil alignment.
So being vegan probably have nothing to do with being good and evil...
(Also it's probably less about meat fruits than it's about it being human meat... you have to remember this is supposedly based on a game world after all )
as for husbandry in general...If you think about it, it's abhorrent how we treat some of our farm animals ( go look up some" human cattle" themed stories sometimes if you want some nightmare fuel )
But that also usually isn't a problem for most alignment charts and I would not be taking a huge risk if i was betting on the humans at least having cattle. ( Elves might not because of thematic reasons )
His abominations are however not completely unthinkable, they are just not very smart because of the negative intelligence bonus and are unable of using human speech.
They can however still communicate with each other as seen in chapter 3, but not with the MC and his champion.
The scout also has some level of intelligence or it would take an ungodly amount of "programming" to get a scouting robot to work on its own without supervision.
If they were "unthinking machines" as you put it then they would have been unable to do any kind of research at all ( by themselves anyway, we know MC used other races for it so.... eh... )
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forest is sus
also, the air makes me want to commit crimes
also, the air makes me want to commit crimes
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