Isekai Yakkyoku - Ch. 55 - Palle and the Parallel World Pharmacy

[Fuhgeddaboudit]

Some here seems to forget that Palle was away for most of the story, as far as he knows Pharma is just a kid who barely started learning about medicine, of course he'll have difficulty believing when Pharma pull out of his ass a bunch of stuff he never heard about.

he can quite literally ask their father if what hes being told is true.

 

[Fuhgeddaboudit]

interesting that both father's and brother's immediate response to something they don't know anything about and never heard of, is attempted murder and assault 🤔

 

[finalm]

You are applying RL logic to a fantasy world, but fine. If you actually bothered to go and read the relevant chapter(s) (4-5, btw), his father's attack was the magical equivalent of a slap on the wrist (a few ice shards, injuries from which he could readily heal as a physician), and Falma's response was an order of magnitude more powerful, freezing half the room. Neither the warning shot nor the "serious" attack was lethal or intended as such. Now compare those measly shards to the literally landscape-changing spells cast by Brother Dearest -- THAT is serious and lethal. When compared to the homicidal actions of Brother Dearest, Bruno's actions are downright sane and reasonable. EDITED TO ADD: Bruno freaking out is actually reasonable, as Falma was claiming to be able to cure the Queen herself -- one mistake and their entire family might hang. In light of that, Bruno's actions were extremely restrained.

Your second paragraph also misses the point: if Palle actually was basing his judgment on nothing but "seeing only one supporter", then he is objectively a moronic retard undeserving of his reputation as someone who is supposed to be a scientist, physician, top-of-their-class, prodigy-in-god-arts, and whatever other title he might have bestowed upon himself in his damn head. There have been many hints (for example, the goddamn HEAD PRIEST OF THE CAPITAL CATHEDRAL talking with the utmost respect and reverence to Falma), none of which may be conclusive, but together they suggest that there is more than meets the eye; a competent scientist/intelligent person would take it upon themselves to seek more information first before drawing any conclusion -- something Brother Dearest continued to refuse to do until this latest chapter.

Finally, you already pointed out what a sane person should have done: ask for clarification from Bruno, since it's his business to maintain the reputation and dignity of the family name -- and Bruno would then only need to point to the Queen's direct support of the pharmacy and endorsement of Falma as a physician if he was still intent on following Falma's misguided "protect big-bro's fee-fees" charade. But noooo, Brother dearest takes it upon himself to uphold the family name via magical , physical and verbal abuse! What an asshole.

Where exactly does it say that it was a weak, non-lethal attack? Please state the exact page. Better yet, try it yourself, impale yourself with "a few ice shards", flying at high speed and have someone use renaissance time medical practise to heal you. Good luck with the infection. I'm not trying to defend Palle's "training methods" (I've never said anything about it), the guy's a maniac. Though it's worth mentioning one thing - Palle unleashed on a armed opponent who's expecting to defend himself, Bruno did the exact opposite, when he could have just strolled in and physically dragged his son away from the laboratory. It's equally, if not more insane. He could have just barred him from the lab, or prohibited him from even seeing the Empress again and have guards take him away. That would have been the reasonable reaction.

He is not a scientist, man. He's a student. Young, rash, overconfident - ring any bells? Sure, he could have been more open minded, but it's ironic that you accuse me of brining RL logic to a fantasy world and now do the exact same thing. Take a look at history and see what kind of treatment people with revolutionary ideas tended to get, even in the time's equivalent of a "scientific society". Such an attitude wasn't fostered at all in the past, what you're expecting is a hallmark of modern times. As for the priest, again he has no idea, only Ellen has stood up for Falma in his presence.

Think about it. It's basically saying "Yeah, somehow he has unbelievable knowledge that turns our worldview on it's head now. I can't trace it's origin at all, but it works and has earned him a royal endorsement, the title of professor and hero, who saved the country. Oh and he's more powerful than all of us put together". What I'm saying is, it's impossible to cover anything up if you want Bruno to endorse him. No cover-up story would make sense. We don't know what Bruno would have said if asked by Palle alone, but there's a good chance he would have preferred to keep the secret and it has nothing to do with "fee-fees". The kid is a miracle and no nation would wish to advertise it. Therefore he might go with "Yeah, somehow things happened and he's seen as a uber-genious. I can't do anything about it right now.".

 

[cash5891]

Where exactly does it say that it was a weak, non-lethal attack? Please state the exact page. Better yet, try it yourself, impale yourself with "a few ice shards", flying at high speed and have someone use renaissance time medical practise to heal you. Good luck with the infection. I'm not trying to defend Palle's "training methods" (I've never said anything about it), the guy's a maniac. Though it's worth mentioning one thing - Palle unleashed on a armed opponent who's expecting to defend himself, Bruno did the exact opposite, when he could have just strolled in and physically dragged his son away from the laboratory. It's equally, if not more insane. He could have just barred him from the lab, or prohibited him from even seeing the Empress again and have guards take him away. That would have been the reasonable reaction.

Something does not need to be explicitly stated before one can make reasonable inferences. If Palle is capable of so much, then imagine how much more capable Bruno would be. And yet he merely used a few ice shards. You also forget that Bruno is a top-notch magician. His warning shot accurately hit an object in Falma's hand, which tells us the degree of control he has. Try doing that in the real world, even with a goddamn tennis ball. We can then surmise that his more determined attack:

1. Could have been aimed to graze/subdue, not to pierce/kill.
2. Could have been stopped at the last moment before they cause serious harm.

Also, as bad as renaissance medical practice was, people do not die from grazes and scratches that easily.

Palle unleashed tidal-wave-sized attacks on an armed opponent... who he knew in his mind to be completely incapable of defending against it. What Palle did is the RL equivalent of giving a 10-year old a water gun, and then blasting a water cannon at him. If Palle is capable of such attacks, we can only imagine what Bruno is capable of, and yet he really only used a few ice shards. Finally, you have not addressed my explanation of why Bruno was freaking out: messing around with the royal family, much less the Queen herself, can get their entire family hung, drawn and quartered for treason or similar crimes against the state.

He is not a scientist, man. He's a student. Young, rash, overconfident - ring any bells? Sure, he could have been more open minded, but it's ironic that you accuse me of brining RL logic to a fantasy world and now do the exact same thing. Take a look at history and see what kind of treatment people with revolutionary ideas tended to get, even in the time's equivalent of a "scientific society". Such an attitude wasn't fostered at all in the past, what you're expecting is a hallmark of modern times. As for the priest, again he has no idea, only Ellen has stood up for Falma in his presence.

Nope, he's still a scientist(and physician)-in-training. Which I once was, and at no time did I or any other fellow student behave anything close to that -- not to strangers nor to their siblings. I don't know where people get the idea, but not all young people are rash, overconfident, and full of homicidal tendencies toward their blood-related siblings. In what universe does being young and rash excuse the abuse Palle has been slinging around?

Also, Palle isn't some stranger -- he's Falma's older brother for god's sake. As for the historical examples of revolutionary ideas, in many cases the ones going against those ideas were strangers with an agenda or interest in the status quo -- not literal family.

Think about it. It's basically saying "Yeah, somehow he has unbelievable knowledge that turns our worldview on it's head now. I can't trace it's origin at all, but it works and has earned him a royal endorsement, the title of professor and hero, who saved the country. Oh and he's more powerful than all of us put together". What I'm saying is, it's impossible to cover anything up if you want Bruno to endorse him. No cover-up story would make sense. We don't know what Bruno would have said if asked by Palle alone, but there's a good chance he would have preferred to keep the secret and it has nothing to do with "fee-fees". The kid is a miracle and no nation would wish to advertise it. Therefore he might go with "Yeah, somehow things happened and he's seen as a uber-genious. I can't do anything about it right now.".

Wrong. There's a super-convenient deus-ex-machina excuse available in their world already: that Falma is the avatar/incarnation/chosen of the God of Medicine. Done. Again, you keep missing the points because you keep trying to apply RL logic and modern norms to a different world with magic and literal gods.

 

[finalm]

Something does not need to be explicitly stated before one can make reasonable inferences. If Palle is capable of so much, then imagine how much more capable Bruno would be. And yet he merely used a few ice shards. You also forget that Bruno is a top-notch magician. His warning shot accurately hit an object in Falma's hand, which tells us the degree of control he has. Try doing that in the real world, even with a goddamn tennis ball. We can then surmise that his more determined attack:

1. Could have been aimed to graze/subdue, not to pierce/kill.
2. Could have been stopped at the last moment before they cause serious harm.

Also, as bad as renaissance medical practice was, people do not die from grazes and scratches that easily.

Palle unleashed tidal-wave-sized attacks on an armed opponent... who he knew in his mind to be completely incapable of defending against it. What Palle did is the RL equivalent of giving a 10-year old a water gun, and then blasting a water cannon at him. If Palle is capable of such attacks, we can only imagine what Bruno is capable of, and yet he really only used a few ice shards. Finally, you have not addressed my explanation of why Bruno was freaking out: messing around with the royal family, much less the Queen herself, can get their entire family hung, drawn and quartered for treason or similar crimes against the state.

Nope, he's still a scientist(and physician)-in-training. Which I once was, and at no time did I or any other fellow student behave anything close to that -- not to strangers nor to their siblings. I don't know where people get the idea, but not all young people are rash, overconfident, and full of homicidal tendencies toward their blood-related siblings. In what universe does being young and rash excuse the abuse Palle has been slinging around?

Also, Palle isn't some stranger -- he's Falma's older brother for god's sake. As for the historical examples of revolutionary ideas, in many cases the ones going against those ideas were strangers with an agenda or interest in the status quo -- not literal family.


Wrong. There's a super-convenient deus-ex-machina excuse available in their world already: that Falma is the avatar/incarnation/chosen of the God of Medicine. Done. Again, you keep missing the points because you keep trying to apply RL logic and modern norms to a different world with magic and literal gods.

That's quite a lot of assumptions that are not backed up by anything in the source material. It's one thing to guess what a character might be thinking, but making up whole never before seen abilities on the basis of "well, he's strong so..."? Are you really that deperate to win an online argument? Look, I'm not getting involved in a "power level" doscussion, so let's stick to cold, hard logic: assuming you yourself had all that power and control you attribute to Bruno, would you risk launching a hail of sharp icicles at you youngest son, when you could have just grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and pulled him out like a spoiled child? Just because "I'm good enough not to hurt him too bad"? If the anwser is "yes", would you still expect to be treated like a sane parent? Because that's far from sane, man. As for Palle himself, if you insist that he was certain Falma could not take it, then the only possible explanation is that he wanted to murder him. Is this what you're trying to say? Well then, while that would be an interesting story hook, it doesn't really seem to go anywhere. Or is it that in your mind Palle is also able to somehow cull the murderous power of "tidal wave attacks" right before they obliterate his brother? I'm getting confused here...

Did you read what I said? A modern scientist's mindset is not at all what you'd find at anytime before at least the XIX century on Earth. Unless you assume that the story is set in a renaissance period specific culture to just be fluff, and their society full of anachronisms, then it doesn't make sense to expect that from their scholars. Read up on how eager the "academic" society was to consider radically new ideas in the past. Also, what the hell do you mean "strangers with an agenda"? That sounds like some conspiracy theory BS. The facts were that people were either dogmatically opposed to the ideas in question (like heliocentrism) or just thought themselves beyond reproach by some "greenhorns" on account of their authority. That's pretty much it.

Do tell - what would you consider "non-RL logic" in the context of this story? The little bit about Bruno's supposed abilities? Because you're adamant about me missing the point however, you either don't actually read what I say or your idea of logic is otherworldly by itself. It's not me who expects old timey quacks to have the critical thinking skills of a contemporary person with a science background, remember? So stop insisting like it's me that introduces anachronisms here.

I already said that if they resort to the "god" explanation, then it's the same as telling him everything, since it only raises more questions that have to be addressed. I'm not saying that it's bad to tell him, they probably should. However, for whatever reason, they're unwilling right now and trying to power through on confidence alone - which would only ring more alarm bells in any rational person's mind.

 

[cash5891]

That's quite a lot of assumptions that are not backed up by anything in the source material. It's one thing to guess what a character might be thinking, but making up whole never before seen abilities on the basis of "well, he's strong so..."? Are you really that deperate to win an online argument? Look, I'm not getting involved in a "power level" doscussion, so let's stick to cold, hard logic: assuming you yourself had all that power and control you attribute to Bruno, would you risk launching a hail of sharp icicles at you youngest son, when you could have just grabbed him by the scruff of the neck and pulled him out like a spoiled child? Just because "I'm good enough not to hurt him too bad"? If the anwser is "yes", would you still expect to be treated like a sane parent? Because that's far from sane, man. As for Palle himself, if you insist that he was certain Falma could not take it, then the only possible explanation is that he wanted to murder him. Is this what you're trying to say? Well then, while that would be an interesting story hook, it doesn't really seem to go anywhere. Or is it that in your mind Palle is also able to somehow cull the murderous power of "tidal wave attacks" right before they obliterate his brother? I'm getting confused here...

Is it that hard for you to imagine that what Palle, a student (your emphasis) can do (in this case, lethal spells), a grown up can do "better"? Is Bruno not an adult? Is he not the head of the family? But fine, let's ignore the power scale/level arguments.

Bruno was distraught over two things: that his son just suddenly claimed to be able to cure the queen of an incurable disease (potentially dragging their entire family to the gallows/guillotine should he fail), and (soon after that) the suspicion that his son is not his son anymore. In a world where evil spirits exist (confirmed via head priest) and can in fact possess people, I think it is still reasonable that he would want to disable a possibly possessed Falma without risking getting too close.

As for Palle, no, "wanting to murder Falma" is very abundantly clearly not the only explanation for his behavior, and I'm sorry if you can't see that. There are plenty of IRL cases where teachers and instructors have harmed a student because they underestimated their strength or misjudged the physical condition of the student, or something similar. Palle is arguably doing something like that, except 1. he's not even a proper instructor, and 2. he's overcompensating and pushing way too hard because of the progression of his disease is making him hyperfocus and fixate on "preparing" his siblings for when he's gone. It's sad and unfortunate that he's dying, and wanting to train/prepare his siblings is well-intended, but the way he's going about it is abusive and borderline homicidal.

Did you read what I said? A modern scientist's mindset is not at all what you'd find at anytime before at least the XIX century on Earth. Unless you assume that the story is set in a renaissance period specific culture to just be fluff, and their society full of anachronisms, then it doesn't make sense to expect that from their scholars. Read up on how eager the "academic" society was to consider radically new ideas in the past. Also, what the hell do you mean "strangers with an agenda"? That sounds like some conspiracy theory BS. The facts were that people were either dogmatically opposed to the ideas in question (like heliocentrism) or just thought themselves beyond reproach by some "greenhorns" on account of their authority. That's pretty much it.

And yet the queen, Bruno, the scholars, the pharmacists, heck, even the clergy are accepting all of the new information, tools and techniques Falma is providing without anything near the level of dogmatic rejection your fixation on IRL scientific history would suggest. In fact the only individual actually displaying that level of rejection that we can see so far would be Palle. (The pharmacy guild rejected Falma more over economic rivalry than academic disagreement. The church initially rejected Falma due to the same suspicions as Bruno -- evil spirits. Bruno rejected because "he's gonna get us all killed" and "what have you done with my son". No dogmatic/academic rejections so far IIRC, except for Palle.)

Do tell - what would you consider "non-RL logic" in the context of this story? The little bit about Bruno's supposed abilities? Because you're adamant about me missing the point however, you either don't actually read what I say or your idea of logic is otherworldly by itself. It's not me who expects old timey quacks to have the critical thinking skills of a contemporary person with a science background, remember? So stop insisting like it's me that introduces anachronisms here.

First, I never even said anything about anachronisms, you're the only person here using that word. But since you brought it up:
this whole story is a giant anachronism, only being "plausible" because it's an isekai to a world with magic, gods and spirits -- something your insistence on RL scientific history is not accounting for.

Second, when talking about otherworldly story, use otherworldly logic. Is that too hard to understand?

I already said that if they resort to the "god" explanation, then it's the same as telling him everything, since it only raises more questions that have to be addressed. I'm not saying that it's bad to tell him, they probably should. However, for whatever reason, they're unwilling right now and trying to power through on confidence alone - which would only ring more alarm bells in any rational person's mind.

No, it probably won't raise too many questions -- specifically, it might raise more questions for you, the reader, but not the people in the story. Gods descending into mortals is a known event in this world; Falma is not the first Chosen/Avatar/Incarnation, and (I suspect) the head priest would be more than happy to explain things to Palle. Heck, even Bruno, once it was confirmed that Falma is the avatar of the God of Medicine, took that fact in stride. But a lot of people, myself included, suspects that the author is likely forgoing the much more simple routes to milk this unnecessary drama. And so the story goes that Falma is unwilling to expose his avatarship status, especially to his brother, and we wind up with this bonkers arc.

Finally, I'm probably not going to respond any further; arguing with people about a fictional character in a fictional world is far too draining for my own good. Have a good day, and take care.

 

[finalm]

Is it that hard for you to imagine that what Palle, a student (your emphasis) can do (in this case, lethal spells), a grown up can do "better"? Is Bruno not an adult? Is he not the head of the family? But fine, let's ignore the power scale/level arguments.

Bruno was distraught over two things: that his son just suddenly claimed to be able to cure the queen of an incurable disease (potentially dragging their entire family to the gallows/guillotine should he fail), and (soon after that) the suspicion that his son is not his son anymore. In a world where evil spirits exist (confirmed via head priest) and can in fact possess people, I think it is still reasonable that he would want to disable a possibly possessed Falma without risking getting too close.

As for Palle, no, "wanting to murder Falma" is very abundantly clearly not the only explanation for his behavior, and I'm sorry if you can't see that. There are plenty of IRL cases where teachers and instructors have harmed a student because they underestimated their strength or misjudged the physical condition of the student, or something similar. Palle is arguably doing something like that, except 1. he's not even a proper instructor, and 2. he's overcompensating and pushing way too hard because of the progression of his disease is making him hyperfocus and fixate on "preparing" his siblings for when he's gone. It's sad and unfortunate that he's dying, and wanting to train/prepare his siblings is well-intended, but the way he's going about it is abusive and borderline homicidal.


And yet the queen, Bruno, the scholars, the pharmacists, heck, even the clergy are accepting all of the new information, tools and techniques Falma is providing without anything near the level of dogmatic rejection your fixation on IRL scientific history would suggest. In fact the only individual actually displaying that level of rejection that we can see so far would be Palle. (The pharmacy guild rejected Falma more over economic rivalry than academic disagreement. The church initially rejected Falma due to the same suspicions as Bruno -- evil spirits. Bruno rejected because "he's gonna get us all killed" and "what have you done with my son". No dogmatic/academic rejections so far IIRC, except for Palle.)


First, I never even said anything about anachronisms, you're the only person here using that word. But since you brought it up:
this whole story is a giant anachronism, only being "plausible" because it's an isekai to a world with magic, gods and spirits -- something your insistence on RL scientific history is not accounting for.

Second, when talking about otherworldly story, use otherworldly logic. Is that too hard to understand?


No, it probably won't raise too many questions -- specifically, it might raise more questions for you, the reader, but not the people in the story. Gods descending into mortals is a known event in this world; Falma is not the first Chosen/Avatar/Incarnation, and (I suspect) the head priest would be more than happy to explain things to Palle. Heck, even Bruno, once it was confirmed that Falma is the avatar of the God of Medicine, took that fact in stride. But a lot of people, myself included, suspects that the author is likely forgoing the much more simple routes to milk this unnecessary drama. And so the story goes that Falma is unwilling to expose his avatarship status, especially to his brother, and we wind up with this bonkers arc.

Finally, I'm probably not going to respond any further; arguing with people about a fictional character in a fictional world is far too draining for my own good. Have a good day, and take care.

Sorry, but the "possibly possesed Falma" angle doesn't really make sense here. First off, if that were Bruno's suspicion, then what reason would he have to even talk to him about all this? The reasonable thing to do would be to incapacitate him quickly, without giving him the opportunity to stall for time and possibly pull some trick on him. Secondly, the priest specifically said that evil spirits can only possess those "with evil in their heart" - now, while it could be argued that no human is a saint, possesion is still supposed to be rare, so it can only be assumed that one needs to be a pretty uncommonly wicked person to begin with, in order to be a host. You'd think Bruno would be aware of such a characteristic in a son he teaches himself, especially if the threat of possesion is indeed not something unheard of.

You're moving the goalposts. First you said that Palle knew in his heart that Falma couldn't take this kind of regiment, now you write that he either overestimated him, or undersetimated himself - those are absolutely opposite claims. I'll assume this is just you fumbling your argument and not an ill willed fallacy, so make up your mind, since I've no idea which train of thought I should be responding to.

There's a difference: all those people witnessed him doing the literally impossible and now either know or suspect that he has some sort of divine guidance. Seeing is believing, after all and even Palle has been given pause when he had his symptoms listed, without even mentioniong any of them to anyone. Speaking of the church, where do you think they got the lead on him possibly being an evil spirit? There had to be such rumors which means society at large isn't nearly as accepting of what he does and assumes the worst, just like period appropriete people would. This isn't really expanded upon (which is a shame) and we mostly see people who directly benefited from his knowledge, for whom he became an authority.

Not every story with fantastical elements is rife with anachronisms and many without them are. Are you sure you understand what that term means? It's not the presence of the supernatural that decides it - anachronisms are what we call the usage of elements that would clearly belong in a different time period than the one the story is set in. The Witcher books are a good example - it's a medieval society, but characters talk about things like genetics, advanced math and principles similar to the scientific method. No, the existence of magic there does not by itself justify them, just like it would not in this story. The actual explanation is that humanity was not native to the world described in the books and was supposedly a more advanced civilization before coming there. So, with that in mind: did you notice anything obviously out of place for a civilization as depicted in this manga? I sure haven't. Why assume that it wouldn't be strange for society to be full of them then?

Also, please define the "otherworldy logic" you're so fond of already. You seem to consider it to be "the world has magic, so anything is possible and plausible". If that were the case, it would mean pitifully poor world building. Thankfully it's not. When given clear rules on how something supernatural works, it's just regular old logic to include those rules in whatever considerations that may be impacted by it. I've been keeping to this principle pretty fast so I've really no clue why you consider my train of thought to be inappropriate. Please point out exactly what is missing.

I'm not talking about Palle doubting the "divine" explanation. He's supposed to be pious, so he'd probably believe it. The questions I'm talkin about are things like "How long has this been the case?", "Was it you who submitted all of those new patents?" and of course "Are you really my brother?". Anwsers to those constituate the sum of all the things he shared with his father, so it's really telling Palle everything. Well, the last one is special, since he lied about it even to Bruno, but that changes nothing. You may be right that this is just a needless drama hook, or they might come up with some better reason - do notice that Bruno, the supposed voice of reason hasn't brought Palle up to speed himself. That at least suggests it's not necessarily the best idea. However, even if you're right, the story is what it currently is and I feel obligated to base my reasoning on the actual situation described. Said situation only serves to reinforce whatever doubts anyone in Palle's shoes might have had.

 

[Mindstorm88]

Ihope this team will continue to translate this manga. Ch 56 has been translated by others but everything is horrible

 

[DanYHKim]

The gold standard treatment for APL is a fairly simple chemotherapy using all-trans retinoic acid and arsenic trioxide, both of which are fairly simple small molecules; this results in remission in 90% of patients. As long as he doesn't bleed to death before he can start treatment (and to be fair, he's lucky to have survived this long in his condition), odds are he'll be fine.

Thank you for such a detailed and authoritative comment. I am gratified to know that such knowledgeable people as yourself are enjoying this manga.

By the way, have you had the pleasure of reading "Jin"?
https://mangadex.org/title/ec86fe52-2294-4244-99ce-1981cfc950ad/jin

 

[DanYHKim]

For a blood smear, he should just need a finger stick to extract a drop of blood, not a full venipuncture.