Jui-san no Oshigoto in Isekai - Ch. 33 - Triumphant Return

[Echonic]

@Kaarme

Well- I don't really understand the concept of freedom, because it doesn't really exist. Or at least their are many different forms of freedom, I mean living in a society ain't really freedom, and living with attachments ain't really free, so what's it take for someone to give their individuality to someone else? love apparently. Look all these Isekai manga have some really dark looking shit when you start looking deep and compare cultures you see a lot of fucked up shit, or at least by your morality.

In Japan cheating in relationships is more common than you'd think, and fuck tons of dudes are scared of being cheated on. Some of these dudes end up making manga and light novels with a life they wish they could of had, a life they've been dreaming about, a life where nothing matters because you're too powerful and a life where you're surrounded by women who can't cheat on you because their slaves.

A lot like minded individuals start liking this concept, because they already think society is trash and their being oppressed by all hell so why not find a way out of it.

But they loved the idea of romance, a girl who can't cheat on you is fine but a girl who actually loves you is better. So they mixed the two, what better way to show love than rejecting the notion of being offered to be freed of a life of servitude because you love your master.

In a certain way it's fucked up, but in a certain way I like it because I've never seen a clearer representation of the state of Japan just by looking at these isekai manga, not to mention the extremely entertaining ones that come up every now and then.

 

[BanditHadron]

@Glomoro
Thank you, Captain Obvious.

But indeed, synonyms are typically superfluous.

 

[jonsmth]

@Kaarme
afaik, the "popular" isekai anime are all late night anime. also being light novels or web novels, they are not part of the mainstream media.
based from the profile page of the Shield Hero's author, I get the impression that many isekai web novel authors are rather... different in their thinking (ever heard of a TSF fetish?) and are likely not representative of the Japanese population.
ironically, the more niche eroge media usually depicts slavery in a darker tone.

In fact I can't remember a bloody single isekai

https://mangadex.org/title/20741/gaikotsu-kishi-sama-tadaima-isekai-e-odekake-chuu
Now and Then, Here and There also depicts slavery in a negative light (no human trafficking is depicted tho)

 

[ultraleaf]

How to train your Dragon

 

[viralepisode]

Is it just me or is this isekai starting to get realllllyyyy boring?

 

[Kaarme]

@Echonic You have some good points there.

@jonsmth Still part of the Cool Japan^TM, am I not right?

Perhaps that skeletor manga does serve as an example, but the MC, as far as I can remember, hasn't really needed to get personally involved that much. He cracked down on some criminals, but he hasn't much needed to deal with the fundamental issue of the system existing and not being able to do much about it without a full revolution. That would be the case in great many isekai, and which, consequently, is why the MCs end up embracing it.

 

[nobaka]

that was a face of 'why are you [only] petting chloe'

blessed liz


she doesn't have to pretend to be formal now, she belongs to shingo and no one can even pretend to be above the 'unique person' with a goddamn legendary earth dragon

 

[Glomoro]

@BanditHadron You're the one who asked, man.

 

[BanditHadron]

@Glomoro
No, I didn't ask anything, mate.

 

[dethduck]

"Look! He's wide open, we could him now!"

"He has a dragon."

"..."

"...fuck!"

 

[ch-apocalypse]

@Kaarme
true they get tiresome, though this one is less boring since the focus is less battles and more the interactions between characters and their motives :I I think three-four battles have happened in the manga dose far and they are barely a chapter-long each

 

[Glomoro]

@BanditHadron Ah, yeah. I got the wrong name in there the first time apparently. I was going to say something to you originally I think but backspaced it all and forgot to change the name. My bad.

So, yes, @onipuck you said

I still don't know why both are needed in the language if it means the same thing.

so I meant to say, to you

You could say the same about basically any synonyms. We also have the word combustible in this case.

But now this thread is ruined forever by my presence.

 

[staberas]

Can someone sauce me the doujin were they fck?

 

[jonsmth]

@Kaarme

Still part of the Cool JapanTM, am I not right?

It sounded like over-generalization to me when your only window to a foreign culture is a limited pool of isekai trash. This and muh GLORIOUS NIPPON STEEL are just two sides of the same coin of ignorance. I'm not saying I know better, but I'd call out prejudice when I see it.

without a full revolution

You got it.
There's only so much you can do to a dark (edgy) setting while keeping suspension of disbelief and keeping it compelling.

Again, it's almost always depicted in a negative light, but only made to look humane if a virtuous protagonist of a feel-good story is complicit to it - perhaps this is what gave you that impression.

 

[Kaarme]

@jonsmth

Again, it's almost always depicted in a negative light, but only made to look humane if a virtuous protagonist of a feel-good story is complicit to it - perhaps this is what gave you that impression.

That's the key point. It wouldn't matter at all if it was regular fantasy. We all know you don't need to go that many centuries into the past to find real history full of slaves being treated like subhumans in our world. Similarly if you have a fictional world seemingly depicting a historical setting, it would be natural to have slaves there. However, things change precisely if you have an isekai with a modern person thrown into such a world. In that case the point of view offered to the reader is the modern person's point of view. If the MC accepts and enjoys slavery, it reflects what the author (and the editor/publisher) expect their audience to want. So, you can indeed draw conclusions from it.

You can call it prejudice, you'd be justified in saying so, but it's just an exaggeration from me. There are already hundreds of isekai works, and a significant portion of them depicts slavery as something accepted willingly by the main character. Many of the works get manga and some even anime adaptations. It would be impossible to claim it means nothing. I have no particular prejudices against the Japanese or any other nations, but neither do I idolise anyone at all, including my own home country. There's no perfect place on Earth. Almost all countries have their good and bad sides, although some only have bad sides (North Korea).

 

[jonsmth]

@Kaarme

However, things change precisely if you have an isekai with a modern person thrown into such a world. In that case the point of view offered to the reader is the modern person's point of view.

In isekai stories where the protagonist isn't a complete edgelord, they're usually against it at first, but often don't have the moral integrity (because they're usually teenagers) to not adapt to the other-world culture, especially when faced with juicy moral dilemmas where the ideal is often naive and detrimental while the immoral option is utilitarian and "common sense". I think it's always a spicy scenario. Whichever the protagonist chooses, it sets a precedent for their morally questionable choices later in the story.

If the MC accepts and enjoys slavery, it reflects what the author (and the editor/publisher) expect their audience to want.

I wouldn't think this to be the general case, since authors don't always write protagonists to be self-inserts and thus, they could afford to make them interesting by making them morally flawed. As for the editor/publisher, I doubt it would reflect their personal moralities. e.g. would a shopping app that lists indecent items mean that the investors and the developers themselves use it too? afaik, web novels (which what many isekai are) are self-published, so when it gets an adaptation (be it light novel or manga), publishers are already riding on the already-present popularity (e.g. number of visits on webpage -> number of sales), and changing it too much to fit their own tastes and preconceptions might compromise the value of the original work.

it's just an exaggeration from me

Explanation taken.

It would be impossible to claim it means nothing.

You're right. But a niche demographic doesn't represent the majority.
And even among the niche demographic who lovingly reads isekai trash (like us), don't always endorse or agree to such apathy/immorality.
Can you say Mangadex readers view slavery in a positive light?

 

[Kaarme]

@jonsmth

but often don't have the moral integrity (because they're usually teenagers) to not adapt to the other-world culture, especially when faced with juicy moral dilemmas where the ideal is often naive and detrimental while the immoral option is utilitarian and "common sense"

I don't think there's much difference between accepting it immediately or accepting it after brief resistance. In fact the latter seems like a sanctimonious excuse.

I wouldn't think this to be the general case, since authors don't always write protagonists to be self-inserts and thus, they could afford to make them interesting by making them morally flawed. As for the editor/publisher, I doubt it would reflect their personal moralities

I used to think more of authors (and publishers), but after witnessing the Harry Potter phenomenon and how it made Rowling a multimillionaire by extremely calculated writing to exactly match the tastes of the intended audience, I'm of the opinion the personal tastes of authors and publishers are of a lesser concern compared to what they are consciously aiming for when writing their stuff. Reading Bakuman certainly only strenghtened that opinion.

If there are 200 isekai authors, it's nothing. Japan already has more Corona deaths (reported plus not reported). There would be even less editors (as soon as the works get official). What matters is the audience reading and buying the works. That's the big number. They are also the ones expressing their honest opinion with their tastes. A competent author can write whatever their want, regardless of their own personal values and tastes. Like I said before, it's hard to make any judgements based on authors. I never read yaoi, but I could write such fiction if some crazy bastard paid me to do it, and I'm not a professional with professional skills.

Can you say Mangadex readers view slavery in a positive light?

I have no idea, to be honest. I have said people in the West probably don't like it, but that's not based on anything. I just can't remember reading Western fantasy that would have highlighted slavery so much, even if it was pure fantasy, not even isekai, and thus technically there would be no moral questions in the first place. Still, I have seen a few other people questioning it. Just a few, however. I exaggerated it because every month there's a new isekai where slavery is okay for the MC, it seems.

 

[jonsmth]

@Kaarme

I don't think there's much difference between accepting it immediately or accepting it after brief resistance. In fact the latter seems like a sanctimonious excuse.

The difference is that the latter is meant to make the protagonist to be a bit relatable, since they supposedly share a certain "common sense" with the readers. So if the supposed choice for plot's sake is the immoral one, then we get to hold some suspension of disbelief for a modern person who chose to be complicit to any savagery. Also, if there was no internal deliberation, then it reveals that the protagonist is apathetic or morally corrupt from the beginning.

I'm of the opinion the personal tastes of authors and publishers are of a lesser concern compared to what they are consciously aiming for when writing their stuff

I have the impression that web novels and web manga are written non-professionally. Ever played Senran Kagura? Do you know Mirai? Web novel authors are probably like Mirai. Web novels are hobby pieces that may get discovered by a publisher (for their reader count probably). Also, they usually aren't very good. I've tried reading some - they read more like a diary or a log than a proper novel.
https://japantoday.com/category/features/lifestyle/editor-claims-many-of-japan%E2%80%99s-light-novel-authors-can%E2%80%99t-write-aren%E2%80%99t-the-ones-creating-their-books
Based on that, I doubt that these amateur writers have the luxury to cater to an audience when it takes all they have to write something.

What matters is the audience reading and buying the works. That's the big number.

Still niche. This series isn't even in the top 50 last year, even though it's been running for nearly a decade, and the 50th is at 3M sales (globally?).
Using this source because I can't read moonrunes: https://www.reddit.com/r/LightNovel..._top_50_bestselling_light_novels_of_all_time/

I just can't remember reading Western fantasy that would have highlighted slavery so much, even if it was pure fantasy, not even isekai, and thus technically there would be no moral questions in the first place.

Well, it's obscure and tends to be erotic in nature based from those media I've come across. If there's one thing in common about "East and West", it's the deviant attraction to the immoral.

there's a new isekai where slavery is okay for the MC, it seems.

Kazami really had no choice in this one. Technically, he's forced to be complicit to it as soon as he arrived. He was assigned slave knights to protect him, a national asset. The maids at the estate are also slaves. The most he can do was to be affable to them. At the time when he decided to buy Liz, he had no power to do anything in time other than that convenient option. His opponent was a subject of the country, so there was no way anyone would cooperate with him to use force. All he had with him were 2 baby monsters.
While he might have been complicit to slavery, he wasn't complicit to human trafficking, nor kidnapping, which often goes together with slavery. He did buy Liz, but you could say that he saved her from being executed or he bought her freedom.

 

[PositiveSarcasm]

god that dragon is such a good boi

 

[Animehero9000]

1: Dragon is goodest boy. 2: Chloe is so cute and happy