Juunenme, Kikan wo Akirameta Ten'isha wa Imasara Shujinkou ni Naru - Vol. 4 Ch. 18 - Aluminum

[arashikitsu]

Hmm so no windmiller? they are rather useful to make electricity and they are in an area where there are winds.
it is simple.. or force a golem to run on a treadmiller that creates electricity. i am amazed like the others in this tread that they gave up damn too fast.

wind is stupidly inefficient and would require both testing and fast enough winds and by that I mean for a 25% efficient windmill you would need at least 22-29km/hr or 6-9 m/s for it to even be remorely useful and just so you know the current commercialized ones in our world with all the testing is currently sitting at around 38% I believe. So unless they have a highly efficient windmill stored in their brains and a windy empty hill (aka no forest to block the wind), that aint happeneding

 

[Elfteiroh]

My hometown is one of the world’s capital in term of aluminum production, mostly because it’s also one of the world’ capital in hydro electricity production, and it need so much energy that even the company that smelt it had to built their own private dams, and they are the only large scale private dams (as power is nationalized here).

Also, dams need a LOT of space, not just for the dam itself, but also for the artificial lake it creates.
building that in a mechanical magical beast infested place? Good luck.

but yeah… it’s kinda nice to see something that surrounded me my whole life mentioned in a manga. XD

 

[UdenEmpati]

That's why I said it was less of a technical issue and just one of basic concepts and logistics. Neither Tohru nor the Twins needs to know the exact method, just give the genius craftswomen the gist then turn her loose.



@shwiftyshfifty
As above, it is less about the physical location or even the exact devices and more of the concept of generating electrical power with magnetism. Wind driven turbines would be just as viable as hydro or steam. So rather then a chemical process this genius gal would create a magitech macguffin to generate the needed electricity.



I can see your point, but think it's not relevant in this case. The author went with a convoluted Napoleonic era chemical process to purify bauxite into aluminum, which arguably would require a herculean effort and a much wider industrial base to scale to the needed levels. So it was never about the infrastructure needed to produce the aluminum and more about flexing their knowledge about this one obscure method to make said metal.

Nothing I can find about the process itself speaks to it being any less arduous than creating an entire power station & electric grid just to create aluminum. The process the characters in this chapter are speaking to was discovered by individuals in a laboratory setting, and while they were working in at milligrams of produced aluminum, the chemical nature of the method means that the hardest part would be sourcing materials.
Maybe I need to keep digging, but comparing that to designing power stations, building said power stations, and then fueling those stations to create electricity to then utilize a more modern method of manufacturing sorta feels like building the Apollo Program because you want to invent Velcro.

And even then - we don't know the scale of output that Cohen desires. If she only wants a couple tons of aluminum, maximum--especially with how recyclable it is--then going to such lengths would be sort of counterintuitive, unless there were set agendas for using all that power and infrastructure outside of the aluminum process. As she's the only person in this setting who wants the metal, and she's a noted People Hater who prefers her isolation, setting up a power grid for just herself when the output to produce aluminum could also simply power the nearby city feels like the sort of endeavor she'd actively avoid.

But at the same time, simply saying "she's a genius craftswoman, so just give her the basics and let her loose" is more hand-wave-y than what the author actually went with, I'd argue.

 

[Lenasien]

I smell conflict about that subjugation quest

 

[Kurovah]

Page 5: Hey, watch the panel, the artist worked hard on that
Page 25: I assume you'll be eating those words soon

 

[Grikath]

O . o
....

Ok....

What's wrong with hydro electricity, or steam powered generators...

I get it, I really do, it pollutes the fantasy aspects of the story. But if you are going so far as to introduce magitech vehicles, golems, and bio-mechanical prosthetics, generating electrical power becomes a less of a technical issue and more one of knowing a few basic concepts and the logistics to collect the needed materials.

All the stuff to actually get aluminium is already there, and you don't even need the Napoleonic recipe..
It's far easier and energy-efficient to use a flow-type electrolysis setup for the amounts they intend to create.
Doubly so since it seems getting their hands on some pretty agressive stuff ( that's... quite the list there.....) seems to be no problem. **
And a genius artificer should have no problem with the concepts involved with electroplating...

With the primary source of energy ( the Magical Car Engine....) already in existence, it's... trivial, just time-consuming, to rig up an optimised electrolysis setup.
The hardest bit is to recall/remember the winding patterns for copper wire in the coils for a DC gennie/bobine setup to generate the correct field strength..


** Don't try that recipe at home, kids.... That one is ....well beyond "losing your eyebrows for a bit" if you get it wrong.....

 

[Miserys_End]

Nothing I can find about the process itself speaks to it being any less arduous than creating an entire power station & electric grid just to create aluminum. The process the characters in this chapter are speaking to was discovered by individuals in a laboratory setting, and while they were working in at milligrams of produced aluminum, the chemical nature of the method means that the hardest part would be sourcing materials.
Maybe I need to keep digging, but comparing that to designing power stations, building said power stations, and then fueling those stations to create electricity to then utilize a more modern method of manufacturing sorta feels like building the Apollo Program because you want to invent Velcro.

And even then - we don't know the scale of output that Cohen desires. If she only wants a couple tons of aluminum, maximum--especially with how recyclable it is--then going to such lengths would be sort of counterintuitive, unless there were set agendas for using all that power and infrastructure outside of the aluminum process. As she's the only person in this setting who wants the metal, and she's a noted People Hater who prefers her isolation, setting up a power grid for just herself when the output to produce aluminum could also simply power the nearby city feels like the sort of endeavor she'd actively avoid.

But at the same time, simply saying "she's a genius craftswoman, so just give her the basics and let her loose" is more hand-wave-y than what the author actually went with, I'd argue.

You're honestly thinking to hard about it and forgetting a important fact. She doesnt want a small ammount of aluminum, but a constant stream to feed her golem factory.

So it wouldn't be a one time bulk order of chemicals from the alchemist guild, but a continuous order that would drive overhead cost thrue the roof for as long as she needed aluminum. And as you pointed out, a constant need to interact with the alchemist guild.

A magitech Power plant would have a similar upfront cost, but once is installed underground or in a warehouse, all she would need to feed it is fuel. Which also is infinity easier to source and use then extremely expensive and highly corrosive chemicals. And if she builds it under her own workshop, no need to share the power with the city.

Also if you don't think the genius golem mechanic instantly grasping a convoluted chemical process to purify aluminum from bauxite, then how to scale that process to industrial levels isn't "hand-wave-y", it really puts into perspective how difficult you mistakenly think it is to build a power generator.

 

[Miserys_End]

All the stuff to actually get aluminium is already there, and you don't even need the Napoleonic recipe..
It's far easier and energy-efficient to use a flow-type electrolysis setup for the amounts they intend to create.
Doubly so since it seems getting their hands on some pretty agressive stuff ( that's... quite the list there.....) seems to be no problem. **
And a genius artificer should have no problem with the concepts involved with electroplating...

With the primary source of energy ( the Magical Car Engine....) already in existence, it's... trivial, just time-consuming, to rig up an optimised electrolysis setup.
The hardest bit is to recall/remember the winding patterns for copper wire in the coils for a DC gennie/bobine setup to generate the correct field strength..


** Don't try that recipe at home, kids.... That one is ....well beyond "losing your eyebrows for a bit" if you get it wrong.....

Which was exactly my point. They have multiple ways to generate power with some form of locomotion, albeit wind, water, or a fuel powered engine to turn a generator for electricity. And best of all it would be easy to scale. The chemical route OTOH would require a convoluted process that needs many steps and require dangerous chemicals. And be an absolute pain in the ass to scale.

So I don't even see a real compelling reason to go the chemical route, except the novelty of it.

 

[karmsand]

Their knowledge of chemistry far surpasses anything a casual modern person would know, but that in itself feels more outlandish than this power stuff.

In the first place, they gave up too quickly for converting Tohru's electricity into a power source. Does the electricity still carry that magical resistance even when conducted from a long line of copper? What about to a battery? A transformer? Or use that electricity to power a different electrical engine.

While hydro probably requires too much space in this monster-infested world, they gave up a bit too quickly.

Just make Tohru power a turbine, connect that to another turbine that then generates electricity magic-free

 

[Miserys_End]

Just make Tohru power a turbine, connect that to another turbine that then generates electricity magic-free

But they already have magictech motors/engines. Why would they need Togru to power anything?

 

[karmsand]

But they already have magictech motors/engines. Why would they need Togru to power anything?

because he has "infinite" (or most likely really a lot) and, more importantly, free electricity thanks to his magic;
anyway the argument is moot because the story required him to do a sidequest so any loophole to make him "useful" doesn't really matter.

 

[Miserys_End]

because he has "infinite" (or most likely really a lot) and, more importantly, free electricity thanks to his magic;
anyway the argument is moot because the story required him to do a sidequest so any loophole to make him "useful" doesn't really matter.

O . o?
This isn't a one time gig. The Golem Gal wants a permanent method of processing aluminum for her golem foundry. So unless your going to advocate for Tohru to be enslaved and chained to the electrical generator, you need a solution that doesn't include him.

 

[Drifter]

Back when Aluminum was refined without electricity, it was more valuable than gold. Building even a small dam would be worth the effort - and how hard could it be when you have golems and superhumans to do the work?