Kanojo, Okarishimasu - Vol. 20 Ch. 175 - The Girlfriend and the Sigh

[startwindowsnormally]

@Revenant62

I won't defend Ruka's collective actions, that's a bad hill to die on, but you also can't analyze Ruka in a vacuum either. Of course the actions Ruka has taken should be frowned upon by any sane person, but it frustrates me that people elevate Chizuru to levels of perfection, refusing to see her glaring flaws. Kazuya forced himself into Chizuru's life, rather illegally too. There is no innocent parties here, unless you count Sumi who is pure and the best.

I stick by my statement claiming that she is a conundrum, because, at present, there is still a serious conversation to be had about how should Kazuya let her down, will she be okay, and how can she either leave the story in such a way that satisfies her fans, as well as the rest of the community. Reiji seems to take each girl and start a spin-off series once their chance with Kazuya is gone, capitalizing on their popularity. As I said in my previous comment, Ruka doesn't have great story potential outside of the main series. I'd much rather see a Chizuru focused series.

I should also add that Ruka never draws first blood, her actions are always retaliations.

 

[S0viet_Noob]

@startwindowsnormally They are retaliations of actions that don't concern her. She put herself in that place and made up something to get angry at somebody for.

I'm not saying chizuru is perfect, but could you state some flaws?

 

[startwindowsnormally]

@S0viet_Noob I agree with you that spending time with a person increases the chances that you'll develop a special relationship with that person. What I hate is that Chizuru is used as a plot device, and less like a character. Chizuru doesn't feel like an FMC, she feels like a convenient way to introduce drama. Kazuya uses the idea of Chizuru to improve himself, but during their interactions, she doesn't challenge him to be better. Which is why I sided with Sumi, but since her chances are gone, Ruka is the second best fit overall for Kazuya.

Ruka and Kazuya's relationship has been growing, although many deny it. Ruka starts out as little more than an annoyance, but through spending time with Kazuya, and her sincerity of her love and actions, she has grown to be attractive in Kazuya's eyes, and even a viable candidate for a spouse. One of her finer moments is when she claimed a piece of Kazuya's mind that is reserved for women Kazuya actually likes, this piece of Kazuya's mind admires the person in question without sexualizing them, see the end of Ruka's birthday arc. Kazuya even states that he could fall in love with her if he gave it some effort.

Also, the argument that Ruka is chasing heartbeats is such a weak argument. The author likes to use an elevated heart rate to give a physical affirmation of love. Ex: Chizuru's heart rate is elevated while she is sitting in the back of the ambulance, Chizuru's heart rate increases when Ruka confronts her about having feeling for Kazuya. Going by this, we know that Ruka fell in love with Kazuya at the top of the bridge, and that love caused her to give in and tell Kazuya her profession. Even Chizuru acknowledges Ruka's feeling as being genuine, Ruka just has double the reason to love Kazuya and more than likely loves Kazuya more than anybody else.

 

[startwindowsnormally]

@S0viet_Noob

> "I'm not saying chizuru is perfect, but could you state some flaws?"
Sure. Chizuru has broken her contract with her company on multiple occasions, even visited her client's apartment, failed to report Kazuya's sexual misconduct, falsified work times. That's just the legal issues. In terms of personal problems, she's not very supportive, has been leading Kazuya on, and has had a negative impact on Kazuya's boundaries.

As a pairing, Kazuya and Chizuru are not a good pair. Kazuya is very dependent, Chizuru is very independent. Neither one of those are bad, but Kazuya needs someone who puts out plenty of affection, communicate what is going on/what they want, holds a high opinion of him, is emotionally intelligent, and wants a large family. Chizuru meets very few of these requirements to make Kazuya happy, which once again doesn't make her bad, it just means that they would make for better best friends/confidant than a lover.

I also respect your right to disagree with me on things, as you said, we're both speculating on things.

 

[Sekijou23]

@Heron_Greyjoy sumi has no purpose? Why you think that?

 

[StumbleReel]

@Huqeo fair enough

 

[WhisCalifa69]

@startwindowsnormally

Kazuya needs someone who puts out plenty of affection, communicate what is going on/what they want, holds a high opinion of him, is emotionally intelligent, and wants a large family.

What a roundabout and not direct at all way to say you want Ruka to be with him.

Spoiler

But story has spit out to our faces Kazuya wants somebody who could push him to do things better and improve himself, not somebody who basically is his straightforward cheerleader or a shallow girl who initially only wants coochie for her heartbeats. He knows in-story he's pitiable at best, a "virgen repugnante" at worst (as a reader, i think he has some astounding qualities, only that he still doesn't know about that), and he wants to be reminded by somebody about that, not in an accusingly and hurtful way like Mami, but in a constructive way. Chizuru's own character fills those requirements: blunt, independent, no-nonsense. Ruka wants to babysit and excerse her dominance into his fragile mind (and considering Reiji confirmed he wrote the lyrics for the character songs, those themes are technically canon to the manga. Ruka's song is somewhat... too sickeningly sweet in a creepy way), Sumi seems to be his female best friend on his mind as of now and Mami... Mami just wants him cancel culture'd and is somewhat blunt, but in a destructive way. Neither Mami nor Ruka are too good of a romantic influence of him. Sumi maybe, but Kazuya sees her as the empathetic imouto and bestie who, on her own way, gives somewhat astoundingly assertive advices to help progress his relationship with Chizuru, and Sumi herself knows she has no chance to have something with our MC.

PD: and about Ruka and Kaz's "relationship growing closer"... tough luck. Kazuya thinks if it as a long term rut, is growing apart from her and knows he doesn't feel anything for her. He only wants to finish things with her for once and for all and expect the best outcome of it or be ready for the (nasty) consequences. And no, as how story is going, i don't think Ruka will die. Besides, the movie arc has shown there are other things that can make her heart go brrrrrrrrr, not only being around Kazuya. Hopefully she'll realize whatever she felt for Kazuya was just a shallow thing because of her desperation for heartbeats. A little reminder: her "love" started because she saw him being too much passionate for a rental and thought he could be a better bf in a real relationship if he was that dedicated to a renkano. Kind of shallow if you ask me about that. The heartbeat and the movie arc just showed why a Rukazuya relationship would be wrong. If they go official, at least from Ruka's part, the excitement and heartbeats' rush will die off because the excitement of chasing for the love of someone will be dead at that moment.

 

[a-for-ball]

I'm just here looking at the shitstorm down below in the comments.

 

[WhisCalifa69]

@skyblue454 i think it's just the perspective. Her pupils were dead. It's not necesary to use seinen shadows in the characters' faces to depict their insanity.

Something i noticed is that the artstyle changed a bit in this chapter. Mami's eyes are less round than in her last appearance and became sharper (in case you are out of it, her eyes turned into more of a tsurime type of eyes), there are more shadows and use of gradients in characters' clothes and objects.

 

[Kaeos999]

Oh shit that's a red flag i've seen that eyes before. Goddammit this manga won't end soon after mami there's ruka ffs it will never end, it will be like domekano all over again..

 

[Heron_Greyjoy]

@Sekijou23 She is a helpful friend, but what I meant is that I don't see her as a love interest for Kazuya

 

[Cordellf95]

I fuks wit mami and shiii happens when she shows up.

 

[CookieMonster]

@a-for-ball

I'm just here looking at the shitstorm down below in the comments.

So am I, unlike the manga it's really amusing. And I believe there are a looot of people here for the same exact reason. I'd dropped this shit long ago if not comment section.

 

[etriuswimbleton]

now here's what you've been waiting for you masochists. some plot progression. But hey, you'll find something else to complain about. Yet you're still here. Funny.

Anyways, Why do I feel like theres gonna be some kind of redemption arc for mami. Like some kind of misunderstanding about her is to be cleared.

Also Chizuru seems bothered about the confession. She seems like she's thinking how she would reply to him. Of course, she being the Tsun and all, kazuya needs more push. Mami may help with that.

 

[Dragonaway]

At this point I'm just speedrunning every chapter, hoping for a confession..

 

[arimareiji]

Hopefully not too many people will hate me for this, but Kazuya reminds me of something Rumiko Takahashi once said about Ranma 1/2: The only actual relationship in the manga is Akane and Ranma. I'm a huge Shampoo fan with Ukyo in second, but it's true. For all that they have an awful, imperfect, hostile relationship Ranma and Akane have a human relationship between two relative equals. Everyone else treats the object of their affection as exactly that - an object, whether a beloved ideal or a chewtoy.

Back to Kazuya, which will really get people hating me: He so, so reminds me of this bitter-but-wise diatribe.
http://www.heartless-bitches.com/rants/niceguys/niceguys.shtml
If you read it and we disagree, that's fine. But I think it has a lot of good points that apply here and to life in general.

(wrt Mami)

Spoiler

Nice Guys exude insecurity -- a big red target for the predators of the world. There are women out there who are "users" -- just looking for a sucker to take advantage of. Users home-in on "Nice Guys", stroke their egos, take them for a ride, add a notch to their belts, and move on. It's no wonder so many Nice Guys complain about women being horrible, when the so often the kind of woman that gets attracted to them is the lowest form of life...

(wrt Chizuru)

Spoiler

Nice Guys go overboard. They bring roses to a "lets get together for coffee" date. They try to buy her affections with presents and fancy things. They think they know about romance, but their timing is all wrong, and they either come-on too strong, too hard and too fast, OR, they are so shy and unassertive, that they hang around pretending to be "friends", in the hope that somehow, someway, they will get the courage up to ask her out for a "date".

They are so desperate to please that they put aside their own needs, and place the object of their desire on a pedestal. Instead of appreciating her, they worship her. We are only human, and pedestals are narrow, confining places to be -- not to mention the fact that we tend to fall off of them.

They cling to her, and want to be "one" with her for fear that if she is out of sight, she may disappear or become attracted to someone else. A Nice Guy often has trouble with emotional intimacy, because he believes that if she learns about the REAL person inside, she will no longer love him.

...

Nice Guys rarely speak up when something bothers them, and rarely state clearly what it is they want, need and expect. They fear that any kind of conflict might spell the end of the relationship. Instead of comprimising and negotiating, they repeatedly "give in". When she doesn't appreciate their sacrifice, they will complain that, "Everything I did, I did for her.", as if this somehow elevates them to the status of martyrs. A woman doesn't want a martyr. She wants an equal, caring, adult partner.

Nice Guys think that they will never meet anyone as special as she is. They use their adoration as a foundation for claiming that "no one will ever love her as much as I do." Instead of being a profound statement of their devotion, this is a subtle, but nasty insult. It is akin to saying to her: "You are a difficult person, and only *I* can ever truly love you, so be thankful I'm here."

(wrt Ruka)

Spoiler

This ultimately boils down to the fact that Nice Guys don't like themselves. Is it any wonder women don't like them? In order to truly love someone else, you must first love yourself. Too often Nice Guys mistake obsession for "love".

Get this Guys: INSECURITY ISN'T SEXY. IT'S A TURNOFF.

You don't have to be an ego-inflated, arrogant jerk. You just have to LIKE yourself. You have to know what you want out of life, and go after it. Only then will you be attractive to the kind of woman with whom a long-term relationship is possible.

Ruka, and perhaps Sumi, are the two best suited to teach Kazuya to love and value himself. Ruka abuses his goodwill, but she genuinely wants both him and herself to be happy. And imo she's the only one within a mile of "he'll tell her his real feelings rather than trying to be perfect for her." Sumi... imo, has a case of Kazuyosity, and idealizes him too much (and vice versa) to treat him as an equal person. But your mileage may vary.

 

[Ragegamer334]

I already know what's going to happen in the future, a guy spoiled it somewhere in the comments of the previous chapter you guys want me to spoil it? SURE THEN >

Spoiler

Basically Chizuru also wants Kazuya to love her but isn't able to face him after what he said to her (she's basically shy) so she remains in touch with him through line.

 

[Sekijou23]

@arimareiji Kazuya doesn't fit that. Kazuya's journey of self discovery parallels Chizuru's journey of self realisation. Both must learn to accept their emotions and their self worth, and while the journey is tough and slow, the comedy and emotional impact of their growth and the way it parallels the characters that surround them make it a worthwhile story to tell.

 

[WhisCalifa69]

@Ragegamer334 that was me lol.

Spoiler

copypasted from the latest interview with Miyajima

 

[Toneboi]

I highly doubt that's what's gonna happen I think the comment you read was someone talking out of there ass about what they think will happen